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Schools report Apple's iOS 7 breaks iPad supervision profiles - Page 2

post #41 of 84
I'm still confused by a couple things. One, did these schools not have beta versions of iOS 7 that they were testing? One would assume if they did these security issues would have been discovered during one of the betas. Do these IT departments have the ability to control whether software updates are pushed to students devices or not? If they tested all of this and it was fine, but had issues when iOS 7 went live then that's obviously a big problem. Either way Apple needs to fix (and according to the Verge a fix is coming this month).
post #42 of 84
It does sound like someone within Apple deserves detention for a week, a good caning across their backside and a hundred lines … Oh, my wife tells me times have changed in school since I was there ...
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post #43 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

1. You set a rule that the students not upgrade until the school says it's okay because it might break apps they need for class and if they break this rule they can't use it as an excuse and will fail every days works until the issue is fixed even if it means they fail the term. No appeals on this

2. You spot check devices at least once a week to insure compliance with this, with not deleting profiles (ie LAUSD) etc

3. If the schools told the students to do the upgrade it's on them

4. This issue might also happen if they were using outside MDM that hadn't tested yet. And doesn't block OTA updates. Or at least require a password the kids don't have.

5 how do we know the kids weren't restoring on a computer to try to remove the profiles on purpose if they do block Internet etc. This could be another LAUSD trick. They try to remove the profiles only to discover theirs ARE passworded so they DFU etc. Might have little to do with iOS 7 at least at some schools

You've obviously never taught before. I taught high school for three years and it's almost impossible to fail a child now. They literally have to do nothing for you to fail them. It's a terrible system and it's why I got out.
post #44 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjbDtc826 View Post

Good, maybe this'll be the wake up call to Cook to getting back to QCing their products. Maybe I'm just disgruntled that my hoard of Apple products continually fail me on a weekly basis in one way or another, or I'm just overestimating technology. Still better than Android or Windows, but it's been a while since Apple's "it just works" mentality.

 

Funny, my hoard of Apple devices continue to just work. What am I missing here? Am I just too stupid to notice?

post #45 of 84
Apple has always had issues with Enterprise and the Proletariat masses. ;-) Tim Cook however hails from Compaq originally, one of the greats in Enterprise Configuration. SmartStart anyone? CPAQ's? Automated driver and firmware updates for entire server stacks? Thank God Apple is too large for someone like Fiorina to buy up and destroy. :-P
post #46 of 84
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
You mean the IT teams that rolled out an upgrade without testing it?

 

Yes! Thank you; this really isn’t Apple’s fault. Apple has broken plenty of their old compatibility in the past and who said boo about it then?!

 

If you’re too stupid to update Configurator, if you’re too stupid to test the OS before pushing it out, and if you’re too stupid to educate yourself on the changes, it is YOUR fault you had to “recall” the iPads.

 

Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Funny, my hoard of Apple devices continue to just work. What am I missing here? Am I just too stupid to notice?

 

Must be. :lol:

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


You mean the IT teams that rolled out an upgrade without testing it?

Exactly.

post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

If you’re too stupid to update Configurator, if you’re too stupid to test the OS before pushing it out, and if you’re too stupid to educate yourself on the changes, it is YOUR fault you had to “recall” the iPads.

I don't follow you. All of this happened AFTER the LASUSD rolled out iPads running iOS 6. Apple PREVENTS disabling iOS software updates.  iOS 7 broke the previously tested setup under iOS 6. How is this the IT department's fault then? 

 

This is a big deal for Apple because LAUSD is a high profile BILLION dollar rollout of Apple's flagship product for educational use. The success or failure will impact the implementation by other school districts around the country, and the world. And right now it's telling others watching this experiment closely that it's not quite ready for primetime. Wonder how investors will take that?

post #49 of 84

This report also should have included that if you have Supervised iPads for students, an iCloud backup that is restored onto a new device is also stripped of the Supervision profile. In iOS 6, the Supervision profile was put back on the device during the restore. Not anymore. Manually making backups on the Configurator station is not convenient when you have tons of devices out there.

post #50 of 84

A bug is a bug.  However, a good MDM, or using a web server and instructing the users to navigate to the web server to install the profile would have been better. I am not a fan of supervised iOS devices.

 

az

post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Exactly.

Apple is at fault here, but so are the school districts. You NEVER implement a major upgrade without testing it in your own system and with your own particular setup.

 

I appreciate this comment. I really do, but we had students-- despite being told not to-- who have updated their devices over the air and thereby stripped the device of the Supervision profile. These are middle grade kids and we have global proxy settings and the like that were broken by this update. Our MDM is not refreshing profiles that have Supervised-only elements checked off and this is problematic. We had no intention of rolling out 7 until we tested it and despite telling the kids via email and during grade level meetings, we were essentially forced by our users to conduct live testing once they broke the rules and updated. Handling this as a discipline issue is out of my realm; however, we are left to deal with the fallout. We are collecting hundreds of devices and updating them via Configurator which puts the profile back on. I feel for those with larger deployments that are geographically dispersed.

 

I've mentioned elsewhere another significant issue that needs to be addressed with regard to backing up a supervised device to iCloud and the restoration of that backup on a replacement is stripped of the Supervision profile as well. This did not occur in iOS 6.

post #52 of 84

That's fine but if the people that call the shots demand that things like Messages and FaceTime be disabled on student devices and a global proxy runs on the devices when students are at home, the tech people have no alternative but to Supervise the devices. It doesn't matter what the people setting up the devices agree with, unfortunately.

post #53 of 84

Things like this are bound to happen. For some reason Apple made a deliberate decision to NOT have multiple users on iOS such as an admin account and also requires a single Apple ID for the device. So now they have a lot more things to be concerned about from a corporate security perspective.  The children should not know the Apple ID password to the device and any app or OS updates should require the password - for all users not just students.

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post #54 of 84
Yawn. The supervisor profile software used is an app, folks. Not part of Apple's OS.

Ask your local bank how the supervisor profile software they used on their iPads worked through the iOS update? I did. At my local bank, everything performed smooth as glass. No hiccups.

I suggest school systems look beyond what's accepted as a quality app provider. And the rest of you examine how exactly the iOS functions with poor quality apps.
post #55 of 84
There are a lot of clueless commenters here...

First:
School IT people are not idiots. They know to not implement something the first day or even week or month that it is out. Apple gives you no way to stop students from updating their iPads to iOS 7. Some districts have set bogus DNS records to stop the update but that's the only way to do it. If the iPads go home, then that solution is moot. You try and tell an 8th grader that they shouldn't do the upgrade they're prompted to do several times a day.

Second:
Apple needs to get with the program. This is a major bug that they missed.

Third:
Apple needs to be more open about this. The issue ONLY affects iPads that had a restore done after being supervised with configurator. If anyone actually took the time to read through boards that have actual knowledgable people on it, like the JAMF Nation board, you'd know the real scope of this and stop being hyperbolic about it...

Forth:
School IT departments are way over-taxed already and iPads were sold to the people above or outside of those IT departments as some panacea and so here we are.... Too many iPads for too little knowledge for over-worked people and then done on the cheap so they don't have a 'real' MDM in place to deal with it.
post #56 of 84

OMG,

 

I just found one more bug in IOS7. The Calendar:

If you schroll all the way down until 1900s or so. The calendar gets nuts, white screen and never comes back I've had to reinstall the OS.

 

Ouch !

 

Apple should take a look at this issue.

 

Have a nice day !

 

Roger

Belgium.

post #57 of 84
Originally Posted by wettej01 View Post
School IT people are not idiots. They know to not implement something the first day or even week or month that it is out.

 

Then they should have had things fixed instead of whining about it and taking the iPads back, right?

 
Apple gives you no way to stop students from updating their iPads to iOS 7.

 

That sounds wrong…

 

Originally Posted by rolivier View Post

If you schroll all the way down until 1900s or so. The calendar gets nuts, white screen and never comes back I've had to reinstall the OS.

 

You have to be joking.

 

Apple should take a look at this issue.

 

The issue is with you setting calendar dates 113 years in the past and being mystified when the device knows better than to do that.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


I might agree with your example if Apple was an education tech or business tech company. As their primary focus.

But they are not. They aren't even a creative pro focused company anymore. They are a general use company with a couple of small side products. Education and MDM are infants in their world, particularly in terms of hard core restrictions, etc. There are other companies that have been doing this kind of thing longer even in iOS that have also screwed up (it is an outside company that LAUSD is using! which doesn't passcode their profiles so the kiddies can remove them in under five seconds)

 

I agree.

post #59 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolivier View Post

Roger

Scrolling to a date where you wouldn't have any appointments, with anyone. Roger that.
Quote:
Belgium.

Great beer, Shite government, when they have one.
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post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If you read the support thread you'll find the schools involved in the discussion didn't choose to update to iOS7 nor download it in the first place. With that said they didn't actively block Apple from sending the update to student-issued iPads either.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5379636?tstart=0

True but...several people have said the IT departments should have blocked the iOS update and a few have pointed to Windows as the example...a user can't update Windows on their own because "IT won't allow it" (similar for a properly maintained network of Macs). But HOW is that achieved? It's not by setting up your own DNS server to block certain IP address (does Apple even publish which addresses would need to be blocked, or is it another egg hunt like the UIs of late?). It's by setting up and limiting the permissions the user as on the device itself. And THAT should be functionality of the OS. No 3rd party tool will be able to do it effectively without OS support built in. Apple providing functionality to block app downloads but not block iOS updates is a failure on Apple's part.

Perhaps Apple does provide such a tool and it's just not being reported on in these articles. But they need to have one if they want to play in the enterprise arena (and that includes schools).
post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 
The issue is with you setting calendar dates 113 years in the past and being mystified when the device knows better than to do that.

Having the ability to look back to find out what day of the week a certain date was, is one reason someone might want to scroll back their calendar.

 

Computers generally don't have any clue about dates before 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970 . Dates before that are not stored in UNIX timestamp format which expects a positive number. There are ways to deal with dates before that time but you can't use the time() function in UNIX. You basically need to reinvent all of the methods to allow for negative numbers to work with older dates. 

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post #62 of 84

Always wiser to wait a bit before upgrade.  Don't want to be the guinea pig.

post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Users have no control over the auto download. It seems some number of iOS users didn't realize that, catching them by surprise.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5403258
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5387196

 

"

"Users have no control over the auto download."

 

?

 

I was asked for permission before the new OS was downloaded and installed, the same with the iOS 7 maintenance upgrade I allowed over WiFi. Simple apps autodownload upgrades because I have that turned on otherwise apps wouldn't download in the background.

post #64 of 84
IOS 7:the buggiest, most flawed, most hated, etc. version of IOS yet.

I still like it but crashing of apps is not worth it (about 5 a day) what did they fix in the betas?
post #65 of 84
Malax: I can assure I'm not. I just speak my mind- Apple's still by far #1 compared to the competition. Doesn't mean they're perfect, and sometimes I expect that considering what I pay for their stuff.
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

IOS 7:the buggiest, most flawed, most hated, etc. version of IOS yet.

I still like it but crashing of apps is not worth it (about 5 a day) what did they fix in the betas?

Buggiest, most flawed, most hated?  And your source for this is???

post #67 of 84

iOS 7 has been great for me so far. The only bug I've encountered is the iMessage bug where it just won't send your text. However, restarting the phone fixes that.

post #68 of 84

Those of you in the past few news items who have claimed it was IT's fault need to learn a bit.

 

Apple currently lets any MDM be deleted despite the passcode setting. 

 

Apple does not give ability to prevent OS updates. Student updates OS, device no longer supervised for those who had it set up to be supervised.

 

It's sort of ridiculous, really. These are glaring holes.

post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 
The issue is with you setting calendar dates 113 years in the past and being mystified when the device knows better than to do that.
Having the ability to look back to find out what day of the week a certain date was, is one reason someone might want to scroll back their calendar.

Computers generally don't have any clue about dates before 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970 . Dates before that are not stored in UNIX timestamp format which expects a positive number. There are ways to deal with dates before that time but you can't use the time() function in UNIX. You basically need to reinvent all of the methods to allow for negative numbers to work with older dates. 

Good point. That is why I use Numbers or Excel to see what day a certain date was (format as day date or dddd in Excel and enter the date)
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post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Buggiest, most flawed, most hated?  And your source for this is???
Buggiest is I have had 50 app crashes today, flawed there will obviously be a few errors causing bugs. Hated 50 people asked, 30 hated, past years would have been less than 10. I should probably exclude the people that tell me they can run full windows on a android phone however. The advantageous to this is none at this point from scroll glitches to deleting 24 hours of data, what happened to everything aligned!

If you think I'm a person faking all this it isn't a joke, I will show you my problems video if you like (and if I can) on the next problem.
post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Good point. That is why I use Numbers or Excel to see what day a certain date was (format as day date or dddd in Excel and enter the date)
Yeah well, you can see Jesus was born on a wensday.
post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Total misquote. Apple has never said that their stuff is without issue, particularly for all users or use cases

"It just works" was a statement made in response to the complicated install etc process of windows computers at the time of the comment. Unlike Apple where you turn it in and it's ready to go -- it just works
Its not exactly a misquote. Maybe misinterpretation but I remember the switch to mac page that used to be on there site which had a point with the title "it just works" and the text underneath rerenced the fact that a mac wouldnt crash.

Since then I think everyone whos owned an ipod, iphone or ipad knows how to do a force restart when they freeze. But the statment was about a mac. I dont think they've ever said the same thing for the other devices.

It is fairly impressive how many bugs like this there are in ios7 though. Particularly when you consider its mainly a ui refresh. Ive been using it since it was released and aside from stuff being in different places and looking different. I havent noticed much else.
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


Its not exactly a misquote. Maybe misinterpretation but I remember the switch to mac page that used to be on there site which had a point with the title "it just works" and the text underneath rerenced the fact that a mac wouldnt crash.

Since then I think everyone whos owned an ipod, iphone or ipad knows how to do a force restart when they freeze. But the statment was about a mac. I dont think they've ever said the same thing for the other devices.

It is fairly impressive how many bugs like this there are in ios7 though. Particularly when you consider its mainly a ui refresh. Ive been using it since it was released and aside from stuff being in different places and looking different. I havent noticed much else.

 

Charlituna is correct that the Apple quote "it just works" refers to the ease of use and does not imply a problem-free experience. The claim "it doesn't crash" is a separate bullet point. The Wayback Machine is your friend: 

http://web.archive.org/web/20030407181018/http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/

post #74 of 84
When the military was looking into using iPads for pilots, the "it just works" line is what the selling point was for Apple (despite them moving on with Playbooks lol). Google it.
post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post


Buggiest is I have had 50 app crashes today, flawed there will obviously be a few errors causing bugs. Hated 50 people asked, 30 hated, past years would have been less than 10. I should probably exclude the people that tell me they can run full windows on a android phone however. The advantageous to this is none at this point from scroll glitches to deleting 24 hours of data, what happened to everything aligned!

If you think I'm a person faking all this it isn't a joke, I will show you my problems video if you like (and if I can) on the next problem.

 

That's your phone or the way you installed the OS, 50 apps crashed? Not likely. Were something that universal I'd have experienced it and none of the 127 apps I've got caused a crash on either my 5 or, now, my 5s.

 

I'd say get your phone repaired/replaced.

post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

It was dumb of them to upgrade their devices before they knew whether or not it would mess anything up. When you're dealing with something this important and this widespread, you look before you leap. You can do all the testing in the world, but no one releases major new software like this without having problems.

 

That is the problem, if you use Apple's Configurator at all it forces you to upgrade your devices to the latest iOS version if they devices are in supervised mode. I have yet to find a work around for blocking that action. Any device that has an issue now with a passcode or needs apps added/removed through Configurator are screwed thanks to Apple and their forceful ways.

post #77 of 84
Originally Posted by Digitaldizza View Post

Any device that has an issue now with a passcode or needs apps added/removed through Configurator are screwed thanks to Apple and their forceful ways.

 

Or you could just update.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Or you could just update.

 

Why update to a new iOS that has bugs that allow students to bypass our security settings and our MDM isn't fully compatible with iOS7 yet either. 

 

My point is that Apple should give us, the paying customers, the choice of upgrading or not. 

post #79 of 84
Originally Posted by Digitaldizza View Post

Why update to a new iOS that has bugs that allow students to bypass our security settings

 

No, the bug was with not updating Configurator.

 

My point is that Apple should give us, the paying customers, the choice of upgrading or not. 

 

You have the choice. Don’t upgrade the devices, don’t upgrade Configurator.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #80 of 84
Does apple have some way to report bugs, I found the 21st (of mine)-dimmed screen on call and won't allow use, rapid flashing when other person hangs up.
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