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Apple's 64-bit A7 already powering advanced new audio, video features in apps and games - Page 2

post #41 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I can, however, see a laptop-style iPad (call it the iPad Pro) which would run on ARM. They could offer both the MBA-Intel and the iPad Pro-ARM for some time to get people used to the idea while allowing ARM to continue to close the gap.

Are you thinking they could maybe include a detachable keyboard and some way to support the display when used on the desktop? Perhaps tweak the OS to better run familiar Mac apps optimized for the "pro" iPad?
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post
 

I think many critics of A7 were jaded by Microsoft's slow and awkward transition from 32 to 64 bit, as well Intel's insistence of a separate product architecture for the 64-bit processor initially.  Many people also don't understand the difference between 64-bit address space (memory) and 64-bit instruction set (code).

 

Because Apple controls the processor architecture as well the OS and the App Store ecosystem, only Apple can pull this off and establish it in what seems like a short time frame.

 

The A7 instructions are still 32-bits wide.

post #43 of 98

Not sure I buy all the Note 3 battery 2x times IP5s  etc etc. Pretty much everyone knows that the display is the biggest drain on battery any you can be pretty sure that the note 3's 5.7in screen is a major juice sucker.

post #44 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

Not sure I buy all the Note 3 battery 2x times IP5s  etc etc. Pretty much everyone knows that the display is the biggest drain on battery any you can be pretty sure that the note 3's 5.7in screen is a major juice sucker.

 

Bigger screen means a much bigger battery. Despite the screen requiring more power, the increase on battery capacity is higher, much higher.

post #45 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

The A7 instructions are still 32-bits wide.

 

But "in theory" you execute 2 32-bit instructions during each 64-bit "cycle"

post #46 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Bigger screen means a much bigger battery. Despite the screen requiring more power, the increase on battery capacity is higher, much higher.
I was referring specifically to the portion of the article that implied that the A7 was super efficient because they lasted the same time, but the note had double the battery capacity. This is a useless statement without out factoring in the massive display on the note 3. On a larger device you have more room for a bigger capacity battery, the end result is the same to the user, they both last the same time.
post #47 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

But "in theory" you execute 2 32-bit instructions during each 64-bit "cycle"
.
No.
post #48 of 98
First let me put in writing this thought - I'm shocked at the quality of this piece. It is the first DED article I've been able to read all the way through and not roll my eyes once. This is a fine example of what written articles should be on AI!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A damn iPhone is far more powerful than some laptops that people owned not that long ago. The amount of computing power that people now carry around in their pockets is insane! Mobile devices are only getting more powerful, and we're going to start seeing more and more desktop class apps being released. Just imagine how ridiculously powerful an iPhone or iPad is going to be in a few years time, not that they're too shabby now, mind you.
Sadly, well not really sad for the current times, but my iPhone 4 is probably more powerful than 75% of all the computers I've ever owned. That was a lot of money spent over the years that can't hold a candle to an iPhone 4 much less a modern Apple device.
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Apple is definitely looking towards the future with their 64 bit chips, and as usual, the monkey see, monkey do crowd is going to follow suit.
I don't really think that is fair to say. Everybody knows that 64 bit ARM is coming, the mobile suppliers have been working on it for some time. Apple just beat everybody to it by a significant margin.
Quote:
Tim Cook had barely stepped off of the stage, and in what seemed like five minutes later, Scamsung was quick to announce that they too were going 64 bit, but they admitted that it was not coming any time soon in any of their phones. I can also safely predict that their transition will be a total mess, since this is Android that we're talking about after all. Nobody can do super smooth transitions like Apple can. And nobody's user base and developer base is as quick to adopt as Apple's user base is. Hell, I'm sure that you already know this, but iOS 7 was just recently released and the adoption rate is already crazy.
It might be good entertainment in the future to watch 64 bit unfold on other platforms. You are absolutely right though, Apple has mastered transitions like this. I haven't heard of one 64 bit related glitch yet.
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I will most likely be getting an iPad 5 in 3-4 weeks, if all goes according to plan, and while the A7 chip is no doubt great, I would like to see something even slightly better in the iPad, an A7x chip, like they have done in the past for previous iPads. We'll see.
I'm actually skipping iPhone for now as I'm far more interested in iPad. Like you I'm very interested in what A7 will look like in the iPad. Will they just use the current A7, or perhaps an up clocked model. Or maybe they do have an A7X in development with significantly better performance. Obviously I don't know but I have to imagine that an A7X is in the works to better support graphics and enhance performance a bit. This especially the case if a 12-13" iPad is in the works.

However experience with my iPad 3 highlights that something more important than the processor needs to be upgraded. That would be the RAM installed, 1GB just isn't enough in a tablet and at the very least needs to be updated to 2GB or better yet 4GB. For one Safari would work much better if we didn't have those constant tab reloads, that is a memory issue. Of course I'm not going to knock better processor performance but I do think Apple needs to look at where iPad comes up short in common usage. So give us an A7X coupled to at least 2GB of RAM.

In any event it think this new machine will be a huge overhaul! The iPad 5 leaks, the few that have happened, seem to indicate that nothing is left untouched in the new machine.
post #49 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbirge View Post

There is no evidence that any of these gains are coming from 64 bit versus 32 bit.

Whether that's true or not, it's irrelevant.

Apple created a chip with incredible performance. It has 64 bits, more registers, etc. Why would the user care about exactly how much was contributed to performance by each feature?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Are you thinking they could maybe include a detachable keyboard and some way to support the display when used on the desktop? Perhaps tweak the OS to better run familiar Mac apps optimized for the "pro" iPad?

I don't know. My guess is that it would not have a detachable keyboard and would look a lot like the current MBA, but who knows?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #50 of 98
Apple has done it again. It redefined the word, "Gimmick", and made it magical!
post #51 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

64 bit is a bit of a gimmick, what really matters is the ARMv8 support.... But try selling that to customers....
Isn't ARMv8 closely tied to 64 bit? In any event it isn't so much a gimmick as it is marketing with something people can grasp on to. The enhanced architecture of the chip is part of what leads to this wonderful performance on the iPhone 5s. 64 bit plays a crucial role in delivering that performance.
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Only problem I see here is fragmentation...If the difference is this large, won't we get 5s only apps ?

That has already happened, but honestly I don't see why you see it as a problem. Most apps I run today wouldn't have a chance in hell of running well on my iPhone 3G and I'm still using an iPhone 4. Further some of my iPad apps can't run on my iPhone, it is the nature of the beast really technology moves forward and eventually old stuff can't keep up.

To address your concern in another way, I would expect Apple to have an all 64 bit lineup by this time next year. That includes iPod Touch. It would be good for marketing and good for developers. Actually good for users too. The sooner they do this the sooner they can cut off all 32 bit support in iOS. Cutting 32 bit support will just result in a leaner OS, better usage of RAM, and gives Apple the ability to drop 32 bit support in future processors. I could see A10 refactored into a 64 bit only processor with no legacy support at all.
post #52 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

First let me put in writing this thought - I'm shocked at the quality of this piece. It is the first DED article I've been able to read all the way through and not roll my eyes once. This is a fine example of what written articles should be on AI!

I rolled my eyes at this portion..

 

"As a result, Apple's iPhone 5s delivers performance equal or better performance to Samsung's latest large phablet, despite the Note 3 being equipped with twice the system RAM, a system clock running twice as fast and a battery over twice as large (3,200 mAh vs 1570 mAh in the iPhone 5s). It's not only faster (above), but vastly more efficient, allowing iPhone 5s to beat the Note 3 in battery life when browsing the web over LTE (below). "

 

Without taking the massive screen difference into consideration, this is just pure fanboy speak. As an example the IP5s has a 5wh battery, the iPad 4 has a 42wh battery. They both (on LTE) last about the same time on web browsing test. Does this mean that the IP5 is vastly more efficient than the iPad 4? It does but you're comparing apples to oranges. The screen is a huge differentiator.

 

This "vastly more efficient" device gets an extra 20 minutes after 8 hrs of use.

post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

This chip is so badass, there's so much potential!
Potential is the key here. Interestingly the software writers are leveraging that potential very quickly.
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I'm not even thinking about the a8, I'm just waiting for a a7x. What will that beast do graphic's wise?
And that's when I cry.
Cry? I laugh and giggle a little bit about the thought of such a machine. The idea is very pleasurable to say the least.
Quote:
They can't take advantage of it now, because it would destroy older iPads. Oh well, future proof at least, even with 1gb ram.
Destroy older iPads? You state that like it is a bad thing, this is exactly what you want Apple to do, that is keep the iPad well out in front of the competition.

By the way iPad 5 could really use 2GB of RAM at the least. Doubling RAM should help a lot of apps with performance.
Quote:

Who here is, in secret, hoping for Apple to release an a7 or a7x (oh boy oh boy!) on the iPad mini?

Secret? Not a chance, I will state for everyone to hear that I want to see Apple 64 bit chips in all of its iOS devices as soon as possible. An A7 in the iPad Mini would really be something though, I'm not even sure that machine needs an X variant. It might if the Mini goes retina but in the current form an A7 would be awesome, especially if the clock gets bumped a bit.
post #54 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Apple has smashed them.
Literally hit one out of the ball park.
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Intriguing that Apple wants the iOS and Mac OS X 64 bit binaries/code lines up. But is it?

It's 'X' afterall. iOS is just 'X' when it comes down to it.
Actually it makes good sense for Apple. It helps with development tools production for one. I do hope that people don't read to much into that blurb. IOS was designed to be Mac OS/X on an cell phone from day one so it would be foolish to diverge from that idea for a 64 bit chip.
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Some of the apps so far are just incredible. Desktop class performance.

With the iPad 5 with A7 X chip ....
Don't - I say don't get me started with day dreaming here. The idea of an iPad with that sort of chip, more RAM and hopefully more storage just overwhelms me and results in day dreaming about the possibilities.
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...this is just the beginning. (With Intel's 5-10% gains on cpus every 12-18 months...and Apple's double iOS cpu gains and with an app store with software in a more efficient blue print...the performance gap is going to narrow markedly in the next two years.)

Lemon Bon Bon.

What performance gap? With things that actually sell well Apple is way out in front. There are already predictions of a very dismal Christmas season for the i86 world. If Apples performance gap is against a market that is collapsing as we speak, then is that a bad thing?
post #55 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDRPRTScom View Post

inspiring. great article.

and the ultimate estimate may be

ios x / os xi

will definitely sooner than later be combined.

crossing fingers for 2015

I really don't see this ever happening. Mac OS, especially in the professional arena can't be bound up like iOS.
post #56 of 98
Apple TV a7 = next gen console
post #57 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

… just stupid.
That about covers it! 😜😜😜😜😜
post #58 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

 

This is a really good article DED overall, but that part is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Clearly powering a screen almost 6in at a higher resolution is going to require more energy than one using 4in for something like browsing. The end experience shows both devices getting somewhere 8+ hours, so that doesn't prove much of anything from the end perspective. You would have to dig deeper into a PPW metric to expose efficiency. (Maybe they should start doing that)

Think of it this way, no one will be surprised a Camry will cover a few more miles on a complete tank of gas than a Camero despite have a smaller tank. We don't look at it that way, we use MPG to level the field. 

 

......  "Clearly powering a screen almost 6in at a higher resolution is going to require more energy than one using 4in for something like browsing". ....  You "missed" (unintentionally, I'm sure) a very important point, 'tho ... a 6in screen device is certainly going to have a larger battery and other components (4 core x 2 core, maybe) than a 4in device .... but the Apple 5s still outperforms them. Now that's impressive.
 

Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
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Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #59 of 98

the next even bigger step is the A7 iPad coming very soon ... certainly the full size iPad. and will we see a Mini-S too?

post #60 of 98
Perhaps you are just gullible. If not that considering this is your second post maybe you are on Samsungs payroll. Either way nothing you say is completely valid below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbirge View Post

There is no evidence that any of these gains are coming from 64 bit versus 32 bit.
Actually there is evidence, Anandtech did some benchmarking that highlighted a few tests where the advantage of 64 bit support was measured. 64 bit results in a not insignificant speed up for many apps and as such contributes to that enhanced performance.
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They are coming from other changes made simultaneous to the jump to 64 bit.
Doesn't that generally happen with any new generation of processor? In any event those changes are only part of the reason A7 is doing so well in new apps.
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The reason 32 bit apps run slower is that they are running in the old instruction set on the chip's compatibility mode.
Except that it runs faster than Apples last generation chip which was no slouch at all compared to the rest of the industry. Oh and by the way, why would you even expect that a compatibility mode would be a high performance mode.
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ARM probably could've made the core 32 bit and left in everything else and gotten the same gains.
Nope, not a chance. Apple is already leveraging the 64 bit features in this hardware to allow for performance gains not possible in a device that is a 32 bit machine. The 64 bit nature of this chip, or any 64 bit chip for that matter, lends itself to optimizations that can't be carried out on 32 bit hardware.
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So, it wasn't really apples choice to go to 64, but ARM's.
How can you even make that statement? You have no idea which vendors where pushing hard or hardest to get ARM to make a 64 bit platform. It wasn't just Apple desiring a 64 bit ARM architecture.
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On the other hand, apple did choose to market 64 bit as a advantage, and Qualcom's chief is right to call BS.
Qualcom got caught with its pants down, the chiefs response was at best childish and ill conceived especially when the software industry is leveraging the chip within weeks of release. There is no BS in results and developers are getting very good results from A7.
Quote:
Perhaps he knows a bit more than those of you commenting here.
He is a marketing drone, the only thing they know how to work with is whiskey and cheap woman. He obviously doesn't understand the technology here. Further he is choosing to ignore the rapid gains in A7 optimized software. So honestly who do you believe a marketing drone trying to protect his company or a whole series of developers demonstrating superior performance from their apps?
post #61 of 98
@mausz if you still think 64-bit in iOS 7 is a gimmick, I'd suggest you read about the way pointers are laid out in iOS and how the obcj runtime has been been updated, particularly with respect to the use of the extra bits in the isa field to store inline reference counts. Very cool stuff, with a very real impact on software performance that's possible not because of the V8 instruction set but because the width of pointers has doubled.
post #62 of 98
I really interested to understand, how a 64bit process speedup the application unless it has the sufficient registry locations[RAM] provided. after all the apple phone has 1GB RAM. A 32bit process is morethan enough to handle this. by the way how much u got 1wink.gif
)
post #63 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

I think many critics of A7 were jaded by Microsoft's slow and awkward transition from 32 to 64 bit, as well Intel's insistence of a separate product architecture for the 64-bit processor initially.  Many people also don't understand the difference between 64-bit address space (memory) and 64-bit instruction set (code).
Either they don't understand or they are working for the marketing units of Samsung, Motorola, MS or whomever. Some of the posts seen already in this thread are so full of ignorance it is hard to believe people are that stupid. That is why I suspect marketing efforts from the competition.

As noted elsewhere the 64 bit address space offers Apple the chance to do things with pointers leading to much higher efficiencies in execution for certain tasks. So even if the RAM isn't in the device, the addressing capabilities can be put to use in ways that enhance performance. So one can't realistically knock the address space expansion.

It is the combination of instruction set and greatly enhanced architecture here though that is making the biggest contribution to the performance gains.
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Because Apple controls the processor architecture as well the OS and the App Store ecosystem, only Apple can pull this off and establish it in what seems like a short time frame.

That is part of it but if you look at the failure of MicroSoft over the years a lot of their short comings have been due to poor management. The management team at Apple seems to have an ability to get everybody on the same page, working efficiently towards a common goal. Let's face it both MS and Apple have extremely smart people working for them, so why does the software from MS suck so much? All those items you listed above are important but leveraging them takes real skill.
post #64 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Bingo.

Someone with true vision will look at an advance in processor power and think "what new feature could I implement now that I have this much power at my disposal."

While others will go "meh, my phone is already fast enough - it's a waste having that much power in a phone."
Funny but I've seen those exact words in several different forums, at least the "my phone is already fast enough" part.
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Which of these two people would make a good App developer?

Which of those people even have a chance in hell of creating something, new or innovative. One is the mentality of a burger flipper and the other an innovator or creator.
post #65 of 98
pedromatins;

I'm going iPad 5 all the way, and my expectation is A7X, 2GB RAM, and 128GB storage. It will be a beast as tablets go, but lack 802.11 ac, 4K screen and TB2 out.

Next year, A8X will cover 802.11ac and 4K screen. A9X brings TB2 to mobile and we will probably see an iOS Air.

I can dream, can't I.
post #66 of 98
Even this didn't really bother me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I rolled my eyes at this portion..

"As a result, Apple's iPhone 5s delivers performance equal or better performance to Samsung's latest large phablet, despite the Note 3 being equipped with twice the system RAM, a system clock running twice as fast and a battery over twice as large (3,200 mAh vs 1570 mAh in the iPhone 5s). It's not only faster (above), but vastly more efficient, allowing iPhone 5s to beat the Note 3 in battery life when browsing the web over LTE (below). "

Without taking the massive screen difference into consideration, this is just pure fanboy speak.
Not really because we have no idea what the average power draw is on that screen compared to Apples screen. Further if the tester really wanted too each device could be set to drive the screen at the same power level.
Quote:
As an example the IP5s has a 5wh battery, the iPad 4 has a 42wh battery. They both (on LTE) last about the same time on web browsing test. Does this mean that the IP5 is vastly more efficient than the iPad 4?
As an overall system it most certainly is. This should be obvious really. From an efficiency standpoint most of the Phablets are a joke which really explains why the iPhone 5s does so well when stacked up against them.
Quote:
It does but you're comparing apples to oranges. The screen is a huge differentiator.
The fact that the screen uses more power only serves to lower overall efficiency which is why Apple is feeding so much money to display developers to do a better screen. If Apple cuts the iPad screens power usage by 50% that frees up a massive amount of power to drive enhanced GPUs and CPU cores. In the end it is overall efficiency that drives the market
Quote:

This "vastly more efficient" device gets an extra 20 minutes after 8 hrs of use.
You don't consider that a huge accomplishment considering everything delivered in iPhone 5s? I really don't see your argument here.
post #67 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post

pedromatins;

I'm going iPad 5 all the way, and my expectation is A7X, 2GB RAM, and 128GB storage.
I'm expecting something very close to that!
Quote:
It will be a beast as tablets go, but lack 802.11 ac, 4K screen and TB2 out.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised by 802.11 ac but I don't ever expect a 4K screen in an iPad.
Quote:

Next year, A8X will cover 802.11ac and 4K screen.
And just what will that 4K screen do for anybody in an iPad?
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A9X brings TB2 to mobile and we will probably see an iOS Air.

I can dream, can't I.

If hate to see an AIR with the current limited versions of iOS installed. I'd rather see an ARM based AIR with an open version of Mac OS installed.
post #68 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

64 bit is a bit of a gimmick, what really matters is the ARMv8 support.... But try selling that to customers....
Only problem I see here is fragmentation...If the difference is this large, won't we get 5s only apps ?

 

Some of the gains are from the 128-bit (Edit: corrected from 64-bit) wide registers, some from the ARMv8 instruction set, and some from improving the processor's architecture in other ways. For (lots) more technical detail, read http://www.mikeash.com/pyblog/friday-qa-2013-09-27-arm64-and-you.html

 

As far as fragmentation goes, the 64-bit chip will still run 32-bit apps natively. However apps that actually require the A7's full power, such as these audio processing apps, of course may not be usable on older hardware.


Edited by NeilM - 10/4/13 at 2:36pm
post #69 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


You don't consider that a huge accomplishment considering everything delivered in iPhone 5s? I really don't see your argument here.

 

I never said it wasn't a huge accomplishment, that's not my point. I'm arguing that the comment that "5s is vastly more efficient than note 3" is not quantifiable based on the benchmarks/battery sizes the author showed, without considering the considerable power consumption of the much larger and higher resolution note screen.

post #70 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Even this didn't really bother me.
 Further if the tester really wanted too each device could be set to drive the screen at the same power level.

Brightness level maybe, but explain to me how a black box tester can make a screen of different size and technology use the same power as a screen 1/2 the area with 1.3 million less pixels?

 

This is old but illustrative... IP4 vs IP5 vs Galaxy S3

The Galaxy S3s larger and differing technology (OLED vs LCD) result in over 2x power efficiency.

 

http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_2.htm

 

Display Relative Power Efficiency

same Peak Luminance 556 cd/m2

same 4.0 inch screen size area

0.51 watts

0.74 watts

2.2 watts

This compares the Relative Power Efficiency

by looking at the same screen brightness and

screen area.


Edited by patpatpat - 10/4/13 at 12:06pm
post #71 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I never said it wasn't a huge accomplishment, that's not my point. I'm arguing that the comment that "5s is vastly more efficient than note 3" is not quantifiable based on the benchmarks/battery sizes the author showed, without considering the considerable power consumption of the much larger and higher resolution note screen.
People can argue about the overall phone, but there's no question the A7 is vastly more efficient than the Snapdragon 800 in the Note 3.
post #72 of 98
Qualcomm's chief marketing officer Anand Chandrasekher, for example, recently told the media, "there's a lot of noise because Apple did [64-bit] on their A7. I think they are doing a marketing gimmick

..the sad part is that guy has a CS and Engineering degrees

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anand_Chandrasekher

He started his career at Intel in 1988 after graduating from Cornell University with a bachelor%u2019s degree in Computer Science and a Master%u2019s Degree in Engineering.

guess he drank marketing kool-aid and forgot his technical roots.
post #73 of 98
This article leaves me wondering if it might be possible to put an A7 chip into the next generation of MBAs and get a battery life in excess of twenty hours. That would burn the competition socks off.
post #74 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

This article leaves me wondering if it might be possible to put an A7 chip into the next generation of MBAs and get a battery life in excess of twenty hours. That would burn the competition socks off.

 

I don't think the processor is the dominant power eater in the MBA. Likely to get the same performance the A7 would need to run at a faster clock speed which might negate any power savings.

 

Interestingly Anandtech compares the A7 cpu power with the first macbook Air. The first MBA had battery life of around 4 hours compared to the new ones with 11 hrs, but there's a lot of variables here.


Edited by patpatpat - 10/4/13 at 3:17pm
post #75 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

Not sure I buy all the Note 3 battery 2x times IP5s  etc etc. Pretty much everyone knows that the display is the biggest drain on battery any you can be pretty sure that the note 3's 5.7in screen is a major juice sucker.

 

Well you can decide whether you want to compare the power & energy performance of iPhone 5s against a phone like the Galaxy S4 (slower, but also not Samsung’s fastest) or the Note 3 (bigger, huge battery, fastest chip). In performance and battery life, Apple wins either way.

 

You’re doing the Windows/Android comparison game, where you pick the best specs available and the best price obtainable and compare them to Apple’s product, so you can either say “Cheaper!” or “Faster!” Well on mobile devices, you can add in “Lasts Longer!” 

 

The thing about engineering, though, is that there are tradeoffs. That huge semi-tablet screen certainly does impact battery life. It also affords it the RV room for a huge battery. But as a package, it’s not faster nor longer lasting, nor is it compact and nice looking. But there’s no question that despite all the cores and clock speed and battery that it’s simply not faster nor as capable, and it doesn’t last longer.

 

If you’re saying a big screen is more important to you personally than a fast capable device with battery life, that’s fine. But don’t confuse your ability to imagine an opinion with the overall desires of the market. The Note 3 isn’t outselling iPhone 5s. Samsung isn’t even ever going to say how many it sells, because sales wouldn’t be a flattering comparison either. 

post #76 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

Well you can decide whether you want to compare the power & energy performance of iPhone 5s against a phone like the Galaxy S4 (slower, but also not Samsung’s fastest) or the Note 3 (bigger, huge battery, fastest chip). In performance and battery life, Apple wins either way.

 

You’re doing the Windows/Android comparison game, where you pick the best specs available and the best price obtainable and compare them to Apple’s product, so you can either say “Cheaper!” or “Faster!” Well on mobile devices, you can add in “Lasts Longer!” 

 

 

Keeping it all Apple then. The iPad 4 has a battery with 9 times, yes 9X more capacity than the 5s yet has the same (approximate on LTE) battery life. Does it mean the A7 is 9 times more efficient than the A6X.

No.

post #77 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

Brightness level maybe, but explain to me how a black box tester can make a screen of different size and technology use the same power as a screen 1/2 the area with 1.3 million less pixels?

 

This is old but illustrative... IP4 vs IP5 vs Galaxy S3

The Galaxy S3s larger and differing technology (OLED vs LCD) result in over 2x power efficiency.

 

http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_2.htm

 

Display Relative Power Efficiency

same Peak Luminance 556 cd/m2

same 4.0 inch screen size area

0.51 watts

0.74 watts

2.2 watts

This compares the Relative Power Efficiency

by looking at the same screen brightness and

screen area.

 

The Galaxy S III has an inferior display on top of chowing down three times the power of iPhone 5.  Your source also says GS3 has half the brightness, suffers PenTile's Red/Blue phony-resolution, and what DisplayMate calls "poorer image contrast and screen readability in high ambient."

 

"Samsung has not bothered to calibrate the Color Gamut on any of its OLED displays, so they are wildly inaccurate and produce inaccurate and over saturated colors."

post #78 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

The Galaxy S III has an inferior display on top of chowing down three times the power of iPhone 5.  Your source also says GS3 has half the brightness, suffers PenTile's Red/Blue phony-resolution, and what DisplayMate calls "poorer image contrast and screen readability in high ambient."

 

"Samsung has not bothered to calibrate the Color Gamut on any of its OLED displays, so they are wildly inaccurate and produce inaccurate and over saturated colors."

 

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

post #79 of 98

Perhaps you don’t get it: iPad isn’t a phone. Note 3 & GS 4 are phones. 

 

You think comparing Apple’s fastest phone against Samsung’s is unfair due to Samsung using a larger screen in a desperate attempt to differentiate, then try to pit the iPhone against the iPad? Why not just compare a Mac Pro to an iPod shuffle? 

 

You have no point, you’re just arguing to keep the subject changed so you don’t have to admit all your complaints are absurd.

post #80 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

Perhaps you don’t get it: iPad isn’t a phone. Note 3 & GS 4 are phones. 

 

You think comparing Apple’s fastest phone against Samsung’s is unfair due to Samsung using a larger screen in a desperate attempt to differentiate, then try to pit the iPhone against the iPad? Why not just compare a Mac Pro to an iPod shuffle? 

 

You have no point, you’re just arguing to keep the subject changed so you don’t have to admit all your complaints are absurd.

 

What planet do you live on. An iPad LTE is a lot more like an iPhone  than any other comparison you care to pull out of your hat. 

 

And don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say comparing 5s to note was unfair. I said your assertion that comparing the 5s efficiency to a note 3 where the battery life and performance are similar (5s being slightly ahead) is somehow magical because 5s has half the battery capacity is useless because the huge difference in screen is a major factor in battery consumption. Got it now? 


I enjoyed the rest of the article, though. :-)
Edited by patpatpat - 10/4/13 at 4:21pm
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