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Data bites dogma: Apple's iOS ate up Android, Blackberry U.S. market share losses this summer - Page 2

post #41 of 109
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The same research firm also profiles mobile app audiences, noting for example that Facebook now has a 75.7 percent reach among smartphone users on both platforms. The firm's combined app data for iOS and Android also assigns Apple Maps a 27.5 percent penetration compared to 46.1 percent for Google Maps.

That means Apple's Maps, in its first year on the market, achieved 40 percent of Google's total audience reach, despite only being available on iOS, which comScore says represents 40.7 percent of the U.S. market.
 

 

I can sum up the Apple maps penetration in two words: default apps.  If Apple didn't force map links to launch in its own application, its use would plummet.

post #42 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I can sum up the Apple maps penetration in two words: default apps.  If Apple didn't force map links to launch in its own application, its use would plummet.

So despite Android "activations" being a trillion to one for every iDevice sold it's because Apple made their own Maps app that they are dominating in usage? Good one! /s


PS: You may want to look at Safari, Mail and Calendar usage on Mac OS X. Despite being able to alter the default app and being plenty of great 3rd-party options they are sill overwhelmingly popular which completely blows your theory out of the water.
post #43 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

I can sum up the Apple maps penetration in two words: default apps.  If Apple didn't force map links to launch in its own application, its use would plummet.

 

The data for the apps doesn't come from the same source as the OS data, so we don't know what proportion of the devices are iOS vs Android, which makes stats about things like Apple Maps meaningless (30% of devices measured had Apple Maps, but were the iOS devices 30% of the population surveyed?). We don't know whether it's install base or usage and we don't know how they're getting their data in the first place. It's not even clear what they mean by the "reach" they're measuring.

 

All in all it's a pretty useless study unless they give more specifics. Presumably it's just intended to try and make people buy their products. Most of these studies are just as useless as the analysts who forecast Apple's impending doom.

post #44 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

So despite Android "activations" being a trillion to one for every iDevice sold it's because Apple made their own Maps app that they are dominating in usage? Good one! /s




ROFL ... good one.
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post #45 of 109
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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

These charts and statistics only further confirm what I have always been saying, that Android users in general, are poorer, they are less educated and more ignorant than the average Apple user, though there are always exceptions of course.

I see evidence of this all of the time. When I am taking an airline flight, I mostly only see iOS devices being used. I see tons of people using iPads on flights. It makes sense that poorer people do not fly as much or have money to take vacations, therefore, Android people are more likely to stay home, and almost certainly less likely to even have a passport. And don't forget the stats that show that almost all WIFI use in flight is from iOS devices.

When I take the subway, I can usually always spot the Android people, as they are the ones who look most ghettoized, both in their appearance, their demeanor and their language skills, or lack of such skills. As I stated, there are always exceptions to the rule, but I am correct more often than not in spotting such people.

Oh how I would love to read how you differentiate a ghetto look to a most ghettoized look.
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post #46 of 109
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Originally Posted by akqies View Post


If Tarantino makes AppleInsider: Unchained you're role will be played by Leonardo DiCaprio.

 

I think that he's a bit too short to play me, though I'm sure that some other good looking actor can be found.:lol:
 

And speaking of DiCaprio, I was at a nightclub some years ago with some friends, just drinking, smoking and chilling, and over in a corner of the club, there sat DiCaprio. There was actually some kind of altercation later on. I think that it was because some jealous loser got mad, because the girl that he was with was a bit too smitten by DiCaprio, and the guy didn't take that too well. The loser guy ended up getting thrown out.

post #47 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Oh how I would love to read how you differentiate a ghetto look to a most ghettoized look.

 

I could go into great detail about such matters, but I think that it's probably better that I refrain from doing so, as I am not interested in having a bunch of intolerant PC folks accusing me of all sorts of things.8-) So people will just have to use their own imagination.

post #48 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

0.8% point change for BB & Android? That is the news? I think the bigger news is Microsoft, going from 3.0 to 3.2 is more than 6% increase.

No doubt about it, Microsoft is planning on a surprise come-from-behind stealth take-over of the smart phone market.
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post #49 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


No doubt about it, Microsoft is planning on a surprise come-from-behind stealth take-over of the smart phone market.

 

Nobody's saying that, but it's a significant amount of growth relative to the platform's size. Besides, the more successful smartphone platforms the better.

post #50 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

PS: You may want to look at Safari, Mail and Calendar usage on Mac OS X. Despite being able to alter the default app and being plenty of great 3rd-party options they are sill overwhelmingly popular which completely blows your theory out of the water.

I think this comparison is flawed. Unlike Apple Maps, Safari and Mail are well-established, mature products. Even the usual Apple detractors have nothing to say about them. Your analogy would be more valid if Apple had decided just last year to get into the desktop browser market and released a buggy Safari 1.0. 

post #51 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

So despite Android "activations" being a trillion to one for every iDevice sold it's because Apple made their own Maps app that they are dominating in usage? Good one! /s

That's not possible. Everyone knows that Apple Maps is no good and Google Maps is 84.3 billion times better. /s

BTW, I wonder how having Apple Maps as the default app on iOS is unfair, but having Google Maps as the default on Android is OK.
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post #52 of 109
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

Nobody's saying that, but it's a significant amount of growth relative to the platform's size.

 

Exactly; he’s joking.

 
Besides, the more successful smartphone platforms the better. 

 

Not really. In fact, that’s the opposite of what we should want.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #53 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

BTW, I wonder how having Apple Maps as the default app on iOS is unfair, but having Google Maps as the default on Android is OK.

While I see nothing wrong with having Apple Maps as the default on iOS, the difference is that on iOS you cannot change the default apps, so map links will always open in Apple Maps and you need to manually copy-paste the relevant info into other mapping apps. On Android you avoid this extra step because you can set your preferred mapping app as the default handler for map links.

post #54 of 109

Seesaw.

 

Hopefully, the same battle will play out in other markets, thus keeping the pressure on all companies to keep up the pace of innovation. We as customers will benefit. In fact, no matter which brand we favor, we should never hope for one company to completely dominate. May this seesaw never lose its momentum.

post #55 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

BTW, I wonder how having Apple Maps as the default app on iOS is unfair, but having Google Maps as the default on Android is OK.

On this point I don't think it's about Google setting their own defaults for apps but rather that with Apple you can't change the default, outside of jailbreakkhg. That said, vendors ca lock down the "open" Android so that you are using the apps they want you to use

Eventually I expect Apple to include an Advanced option in Settings that would allow one to change the default app. Perhaps an item under Settings => General that would list all system apps that you could show/hide on the home screens with a toggle switch and with some of them (like Mail and Safari) you can change the default app by pressing the small arrow button and choosing from applicable apps.
post #56 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I think that he's a bit too short to play me, though I'm sure that some other good looking actor can be found.lol.gif

I think he's like 6'1".

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

I think this comparison is flawed. Unlike Apple Maps, Safari and Mail are well-established, mature products. Even the usual Apple detractors have nothing to say about them. Your analogy would be more valid if Apple had decided just last year to get into the desktop browser market and released a buggy Safari 1.0. 

What about when Safari was just released? And back then you couldn't even go to a government website without being told to use IE or FF. Even IE has held a great deal of dominance despite being much shittier than pretty much everything else.
post #57 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


I think he's like 6'1".
 

I thought that he was shorter. I just checked and he's 6'0", so he's not as short as I thought. I'm 6'2", so he would probably do just fine after all.

post #58 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

What about when Safari was just released? And back then you couldn't even go to a government website without being told to use IE or FF. Even IE has held a great deal of dominance despite being much shittier than pretty much everything else.

If this data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#TheCounter.com_.282000_to_2009.29) is to be believed, Safari took many years to get to its current usage share. Also keep in mind that browsers back then weren't as mature as browsers and mapping apps are today. The dominant player IE wasn't particularly good, which is why small projects like Firefox were able to get a foothold in the browser market. 


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 10/5/13 at 1:24pm
post #59 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by somfw View Post

And it's not because of goggles infinite wisdom to chase Ad revenue in the present that spoke has gotten any boost right?
What are some of the most downloaded apps o iOS? That's right Google apps! And they are all free too. Thus giving apple lemmings the best if both worlds, "me too" phones as well as the best software available on any OS. How many apple lemmings are content to stay on their miniature apple phones now that they have Google maps, drive, Now, YouTube etc. Besides this is a one time jump in ever decreasing market share, in the USA only. Now let's talk about Androids works wide 80% /- market share, shall we?

Googles infinite wis...
...all free apps...
...best of both worlds...
...best software available on any OS...
...miniature Apple phones...
...decreasing market share...
Android WW market share....

But, sir,...

Oh, who am I kidding?
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post #60 of 109
Originally Posted by somfw View Post
..apple lemmings…

 

Who bought the phone that exists simply because it isn’t another phone?

 

Aaaaand who bought the phone that existed first?

 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #61 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

0.8% point change for BB & Android? That is the news? I think the bigger news is Microsoft, going from 3.0 to 3.2 is more than 6% increase.

Nope. None of those are news.

In most surveys like this, the margin of error is +/- 2 or 3%. Anything less than that is meaningless (or, in some cases, marginally meaningful but at a much lower confidence level). Statistically, almost all of the numbers are 'no change'.

And that doesn't even get into the biggest source of error in surveys like this. The margin of error calculations assume that the sample is truly random and representative. Since they don't give the methodology, there's no way of knowing if that's true of this particular survey.

That's a valid point! Also I don't think any of these surveys can truly give a 'proper' insight, a meaningful graph, a representative state of affairs if you will.

Would it be fair to compare the numbers against the other numbers in the same survey, any survey for that matter, just to compare any difference? Since all numbers have an amount of error, wouldn't that be comparative to the other numbers? (Hope I'm making my point come across here)
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post #62 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I thought that he was shorter. I just checked and he's 6'0", so he's not as short as I thought. I'm 6'2", so he would probably do just fine after all.

He does seem like he'd be shorter. I think it's his young looking face that gives the illusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

If this data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#TheCounter.com_.282000_to_2009.29) is to be believed, Safari took many years to get to its current usage share. Also keep in mind that browsers back then weren't as mature as browsers and mapping apps are today. The dominant player IE wasn't particularly good, which is why small projects like Firefox were able to get a foothold in the browser market. 

Right. IE wasn't very good, could easily be changed from default, and there were much better options out there and yet it still dominated. That completely destroys any argument that simply making Maps, which is very good, capable of not being the default would cause its usage, and I quote, to plummet.
post #63 of 109
Not surprising. Apple is growing in sales and market share at Samsung and Androids expense.

Both google and Samsung know this hence their efforts to abandon each other in favor of tizen and chrome respectively.

Apple is making the money and surging. Every company wants to be apple not Sammy.
post #64 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That's a valid point! Also I don't think any of these surveys can truly give a 'proper' insight, a meaningful graph, a representative state of affairs if you will.

Would it be fair to compare the numbers against the other numbers in the same survey, any survey for that matter, just to compare any difference? Since all numbers have an amount of error, wouldn't that be comparative to the other numbers? (Hope I'm making my point come across here)

No. If the error margin is +/- 3% (for example), then if you repeat exactly the same survey under the same conditions, you could get a swing of 3% even if nothing changed. There's scatter in the data. A change that's less than the error margin is meaningless.
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post #65 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

 IE wasn't very good, could easily be changed from default, and there were much better options out there and yet it still dominated. That completely destroys any argument that simply making Maps, which is very good, capable of not being the default would cause its usage, and I quote, to plummet.

I'm not sure I understand how IE is a counterexample to that statement.  IE despite its flaws had many reasons for remaining dominant in the few years after Firefox and Safari were released. Businesses had their own internal apps certified on IE when it was the only browser around, and presumably it would have been costly to port them to other browsers, especially when the browsers were still relatively immature and evolving rapidly. IE also had the best support for Windows management tools like Group Policy. Most importantly, IE was for a long time the only Windows browser backed by a corporation. Most CIO's won't put their money on an product maintained by volunteers with no customer support. 

post #66 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

I'm not sure I understand how IE is a counterexample to that statement.  IE despite its flaws had many reasons for remaining dominant in the few years after Firefox and Safari were released. Businesses had their own internal apps certified on IE when it was the only browser around, and presumably it would have been costly to port them to other browsers, especially when the browsers were still relatively immature and evolving rapidly. IE also had the best support for Windows management tools like Group Policy. Most importantly, IE was for a long time the only Windows browser backed by a corporation. Most CIO's won't put their money on an product maintained by volunteers with no customer support. 

It's pretty simple. You agreed with the poster who said that Apple Maps usage would "plummet" if users could change the default app and then you claimed that using Safari wasn't a good example despite making a lame argument to support your position. No matter how you slice it iOS is successful because it's usable and Apple Maps usage would not "plummet" into nonexistence if Apple let other apps be the default which I choose Safari on Mac (which took years to gain WebKit traction) and IE on Windows (which still is the most dominant browser despite not being the best browser).


PS: I'm just ignoring your comments about businesses, internal apps and CIOs since we're talking about consumer usage habits here. When we talk about the CIO browser choices you'll know because Safari for Mac won't come up. In fact, it's unlike Macs would come up.
Edited by akqies - 10/5/13 at 5:50pm
post #67 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


It's pretty simple. You agreed with the poster who said that Apple Maps usage would "plummet" if users could change the default app and then you claimed that using Safari wasn't a good example despite making a lame argument to support your position. 

Did I? Here's my first post. Can you point to where I take a position on the claim that "Apple Maps usage would 'plummet'?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

I think this comparison is flawed. Unlike Apple Maps, Safari and Mail are well-established, mature products. Even the usual Apple detractors have nothing to say about them. Your analogy would be more valid if Apple had decided just last year to get into the desktop browser market and released a buggy Safari 1.0. 

post #68 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Did I? Here's my first post. Can you point to where I take a position on the claim that "Apple Maps usage would 'plummet'?.

And by the associative property of me countering the claim that usage would plummet you are agreeing with it. You tying rhe year 2012 to Safari as the only time it could have been released as a 1.0 app is irrelevant as it was a 1.0 app at some point and still gained traction despite your feelings. Frankly, it was harder for them then that it would be now since WebKit had no viable presence and therefore no widespread support as it was before browser engines started becoming unified in their ability to read modern sites properly.

Today it would be easier for Safari for Mac to gain traction out of the box since WebKit is so widely supported and because of the state do the web today v then. It would get used by a great many users even as a modern 1.0 app because a large majority of users simply don't go out looking for new apps to replace what comes standard.
post #69 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

 No matter how you slice it iOS is successful because it's usable and Apple Maps usage would not "plummet" into nonexistence if Apple let other apps be the default which I choose Safari on Mac (which took years to gain WebKit traction) and IE on Windows (which still is the most dominant browser despite not being the best browser).

Wakefinance argued that Apple Maps not very good, hence customers would flock to alternatives given the choice. Did you accept his underlying premise? I didn't understand how Safari fits into your argument. Did you mean to claim that Apple Maps is actually as good as Safari is relative to its competition? If so, sorry for the misunderstanding.

post #70 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


And by the associative property of me countering the claim that usage would plummet you are agreeing with it. 

Sorry, I don't follow. Whether one agrees or disagrees with a statement is independent of whether one thinks the argument used to justify it is sound. I did not parse whether you agreed or disagreed with wakefinance's underlying assumption that Apple Maps is not very good. If you were arguing that Apple Maps would retain its usage share despite being not good, then you can see why Safari would not work as an example. If on the other hand you were disagreeing outright with his premise that Apple Maps is not good, then the whole thing about Safari would seem rather redundant. Of course customers will stay with a product when it's as good as its competitors.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 10/5/13 at 6:06pm
post #71 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Sorry, I don't follow. Whether one agrees or disagrees with a statement is independent of whether one thinks the argument used to justify it is sound. I did not parse whether you agreed or disagreed with wakefinance's underlying assumption that Apple Maps is not very good. If you were arguing that Apple Maps would retain its usage share despite being not good, then you can see why Safari does not work as an example. If on the other hand you were disagreeing outright with his premise that Apple Maps is not good, then the whole thing about Safari would seem rather redundant. 

Have you used Apple Maps? It's very good. It certainly better than what Google originally came out with against MS and MapQuest in terms of feature parity and blows everyone away in the actually app side of things. The only way it appears to have any real shortcomings is having as much data points to pull from the server as Google Maps but as unfortunate as that is it was expected and showed that Google Maps has plenty of incorrect and missing data, too, just with a poorer native app UI.
post #72 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

PS: I'm just ignoring your comments about businesses, internal apps and CIOs since we're talking about consumer usage habits here. When we talk about the CIO browser choices you'll know because Safari for Mac won't come up. In fact, it's unlike Macs would come up.

Sorry, just noticed this edit (I'm guilty of ninja edits myself). I mentioned businesses because they've been largely responsible for IE's continuing usage share. Most stats measure overall browser usage share and don't distinguish between corporate users and consumers. Were you referring specifically to IE's usage share among Mac users?  It would be news to me if IE continued to dominate on Mac well after Safari was first released in 2003, as MS stopped developing IE for Mac in the same year.

post #73 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgreer View Post

The iPhone is simply too expense for teens. Teens are only knocking iphone as sort of a "sour grapes". They feel embarrassed to own an inferior phone, so they knock the leader and make false justifications to defend the garbage they own.

I was at the mall today and there are quite a few teens and tweens walking around with iPhones.  iPhones are very popular among teens

post #74 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I can sum up the Apple maps penetration in two words: default apps.  If Apple didn't force map links to launch in its own application, its use would plummet.

And if Google didn't make its Maps as default an Android...

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

While I see nothing wrong with having Apple Maps as the default on iOS, the difference is that on iOS you cannot change the default apps, so map links will always open in Apple Maps and you need to manually copy-paste the relevant info into other mapping apps. On Android you avoid this extra step because you can set your preferred mapping app as the default handler for map links.

I bet the majority of Androiders don't know how to change the defaults.
post #75 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


And if Google didn't make its Maps as default an Android...
 

Actually, the nexus devices don't seem to come with any default apps set. Unless you have previously assigned a default handler, when you select a map link you will be presented with a dialog similar to this one: 

 

It's possible that the carriers muck with the defaults on their branded devices.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 10/5/13 at 9:15pm
post #76 of 109
I love how an article about apples increasing sales and market share in the US gets turned into a debate on stuff like Apple Maps. Apple Maps is great especially for turn by turn voice assisted navigation. And Apples US marketshare is increasing at the expense of Android. Dramatically so in sept and well see October. This is based on web usage stats.
post #77 of 109
Google it and see for yourself!!!!@ComScore%u2019s Dishonest Data Collection Called Into Question
post #78 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I can see why Scamsung phones may be preferred by some of the older generation. After all in the pre smart phone era there were special large phones with large buttons that looked just like those Scamsung phones that were marketed directly to the elderly. Of course now, the smarter older folks just ask Siri to do more.

EDIT: Note ... this web site causes a Safari 7.0 crash in GM 10.9 after an edit, just as it did in 10.8.5 and Safari 6.1.

I'm running 10.8.5 and Safari 6.0.5 (latest public release), and I've never had any issues with crashing after an edit. 

 

What extensions are you running?

post #79 of 109
These statistics are interesting, but without more disclosure on the methodology, etc, they are really nothing more than a talking point.

And really, we need to be asking why the author felt compelled to write a "circle the wagons" defense of apple.

Here is an interesting real-world action of someone trying to make money selling the devices.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/apple-iphone-5c-best-buy-weekend-50/t/story?id=20463745&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2Fnwshp%3Fhl%3Den%26tab%3Dwn%26ar%3D1380969155

Best Buy is lowering the price of the 5c to $50. The Galaxy remains three times more expensive at $150. Someone claimed earlier that teens moving to Samsung were doing so because they couldn't afford an iPhone. Hmmmm.....

And can we agree that Best Buy, Walmart, and other retailers would be charging more (and making more profit) on the iPhone if they could?

Apple can be admired for their brilliant execution morphing the iPod into the iPhone. They led the way, and continue to enjoy the benefits of having the first "hit"

But can't we think for a minute what it means if someone is willing to pay three times more for a competitors product?

My entire family has iPhones. I'm ready to dump mine as soon as Verizon offers a high-end Windows 8 phone. My son is moving to the Galaxy as soon as his contract is up. Wife and daughter are happy with their iPhones. In our home apple is going to see a 50% reduction in market share.

The point is that this smartphone market is really only a few years old, and lots of people are going to be coming off contract soon. It'll be interesting to see what happens as more sophisticated users evaluate their needs, and compare features and capabilities.

Apple thinks I am too stupid to change my own battery... Better left to the "professional", right? The single HOME button is broke... so I need to leave my phone -- and all of my private information -- with some stranger for repair, yet Apple clings to this flawed one-button design. I am jumping through all kinds of hoops to try to get some external storage that will work with my phone, and can only get half-baked wifi devices that can save some, but not all, of my valuable data.

Meanwhile, the Galaxy can accept memory cards. I can swap out a SIM card when I travel to China next week. I can have spare batteries for the Samsung phones. The menus are accessed with touchscreens, not some "mission critical" home button. You don't have to go through crazy contortions to sync a Samsung to a new computer.

And almost all W8 and Android phones have embraced NFC, while arrogant Apple continues the ignore-anything-not-invented-by-apple snub of this great technology.

As this market matures, and users become more sophisticated, apple is going to need to offer more than Male SIri, colored plastic cases and low cost phones if they hope to remain a market leader.
post #80 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExternalStorage View Post


Meanwhile, the Galaxy can accept memory cards. I can swap out a SIM card when I travel to China next week. I can have spare batteries for the Samsung phones. The menus are accessed with touchscreens, not some "mission critical" home button. You don't have to go through crazy contortions to sync a Samsung to a new computer.
 

 

It's somewhat ironic that you deride the home button when you cite the only major android OEM that still insists on using physical home and menu buttons.

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