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Apple draws criticism after pulling Chinese anti-censorship app - Page 2

post #41 of 100

You'd think the Chinese government would just take one look at the US, see how well it works politically and immediately adopt its values. It's astonishing that they've chosen to go their own way.

post #42 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Apple can, however, continue to supply them with these devices (that are both a phone AND an internet communication device capable of bypassing the censors), and given the right tools, users can continue without Apple's "blessing"%u2026
Or, they can just buy a Samsung that does this without any special jailbreaks, etc. No wonder Apple released the iPhone in gold ... That should assure them a few sales until Samsung comes out with one.

Most likely the bigger problem in this scenario is finding the websites that offer such apps, or getting through the firewall to get them.
post #43 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

A few years ago Google redirected Chinese users to their Hong Kong Google search which wasn't censored and allowed people to search terms like "tiananmen square" and it royally pissed off the Chinese government.  The Chinese gov't blocked Google and Google caved.  They went back to allowing China to censor search results but Google put a message up to the user saying that the results had been censored.  That message was dropped early this year.

 

I was in Beijing a few months ago.  Google still redirects to the Hong Kong site.  And the site is censored.  I don't know about any warning message.  But this is no secret - everybody there knows that it is censored.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post
 

Yeah right. Anything for a buck is ok. Good thinking. Wanna buy some crack ?

 

And what's the alternative?  Violate the law and risk getting kicked out of the country altogether?

 

You and I might be willing to risk this, but no corporation wants to risk that level of punishment in order to make a political statement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by murman View Post
 

Does that work like a proxy? If so, there are plenty of proxy services on the web, although are they all or mostly blocked at this point?

 

There are anti-firewall proxies.  The Chinese government routinely finds and shuts them down.  And new ones are created.  It's a never-ending game of cat-and-mouse, which everybody who cares, plays.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Open Door was sold in the Chinese App Store until July of this year, when Apple pulled the program, saying that it contained content that was illegal within China. The app saw roughly 2,000 daily downloads in China, according to the Daily Mail, and it is still available in the App Stores of other countries, including the U.S. App Store.

 

Interesting to note that is available in other countries.  I wonder if this can be exploited.

 

For instance, can someone in the US purchase a copy using iTunes (on a Mac or PC), then mail the application bundle into China, where the recipient can drag/drop it into iTunes for installation on a phone?  If both the purchase and the installation are done using the same AppleID and password, I think it should work.

 

In other words, this may end up being more of an inconvenience than anything else.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Very easy answer: do what Amazon does: allow any user to shop in any of Amazon's national stores with a single user ID.
That way they can abide by the law and remove it from the Chinese AppStore, but people in China simply switch store and buy the app e.g. in the US store.
The necessity to have a different AppleID for each store is brain-dead in a mobile, globalized economy anyway:

 

Agreed.  I'm sure Apple had good reasons at the time (e.g. different tax laws in different nations, exclusive marketing deals, etc.) which make cross-border purchases legally messy, but the time has come to deal with the mess and drop the hassles.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

I may point out that anything that happened in Nazi-Germany was according to the law.
So why are companies to this day paying retribution for having followed the law?

Because nobody is allowed to hide behind the law and chain of command if the laws run counter to basic HUMAN RIGHTS.

There are more important values than corporate profits in this world.

 

Are you equating internet censorship with Nazi death camps?  Shame on you.

 

And if you seriously believe this, are you boycotting the thousands of corporations that use cheap Chinese labor for their manufacturing?  Do you avoid buying Chinese-branded products?

 

Did you protest when Bill Clinton ignored decades of human rights abuses (which go on to this day) and removed all trade barriers with China?

 

Are you now protesting the fact that China has been blockading commerce in the entire South China Sea, which is an international act of war?  Are you demanding that the US use its Navy to protect international commerce in the region?

 

If you are serious about punishing China for their countless acts of war and human rights abuses, do you get involved wit protesting them all?  Some?  More than one?  Or are you just complaining here because it's fashionable to pick on Apple for doing what everybody else does?

post #44 of 100
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post
 

Yeah right. Anything for a buck is ok. Good thinking. Wanna buy some crack ?

 

And what's the alternative?  Violate the law and risk getting kicked out of the country altogether?

 

You and I might be willing to risk this, but no corporation wants to risk that level of punishment in order to make a political statement.

 

 

And the sad part is, that this "fact" is accepted as such, as if this were the most normal and ideal situation, as if corporations had no social responsibility at all. It's the mind set that allows a thriving business in blood diamonds, the senseless deforestation of rain forests,  human rights abuses all over the world, etc. because commerce trumps ethics.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Open Door was sold in the Chinese App Store until July of this year, when Apple pulled the program, saying that it contained content that was illegal within China. The app saw roughly 2,000 daily downloads in China, according to the Daily Mail, and it is still available in the App Stores of other countries, including the U.S. App Store.

 

Interesting to note that is available in other countries.  I wonder if this can be exploited.

 

For instance, can someone in the US purchase a copy using iTunes (on a Mac or PC), then mail the application bundle into China, where the recipient can drag/drop it into iTunes for installation on a phone?  If both the purchase and the installation are done using the same AppleID and password, I think it should work.

 

In other words, this may end up being more of an inconvenience than anything else.

 

No, not like that. The person in the US would need to create a iTunes store account for the person in China and give that person the store credentials (AppleID, password) for the app bundle to be installable.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

I may point out that anything that happened in Nazi-Germany was according to the law.
So why are companies to this day paying retribution for having followed the law?

Because nobody is allowed to hide behind the law and chain of command if the laws run counter to basic HUMAN RIGHTS.

There are more important values than corporate profits in this world.

 

Are you equating internet censorship with Nazi death camps?  Shame on you.

 

And if you seriously believe this, are you boycotting the thousands of corporations that use cheap Chinese labor for their manufacturing?  Do you avoid buying Chinese-branded products?

 

Did you protest when Bill Clinton ignored decades of human rights abuses (which go on to this day) and removed all trade barriers with China?

 

Are you now protesting the fact that China has been blockading commerce in the entire South China Sea, which is an international act of war?  Are you demanding that the US use its Navy to protect international commerce in the region?

 

If you are serious about punishing China for their countless acts of war and human rights abuses, do you get involved wit protesting them all?  Some?  More than one?  Or are you just complaining here because it's fashionable to pick on Apple for doing what everybody else does?

 

 

I don't equate internet censorship with death camps, but I equate one dictatorial regime with another. Nazi Germany was big on censorship, and China tortures, imprisons and kills political adversaries, engages in a systematic Han-ification process in Tibet, prosecutes people who are "different" in whatever way rubs the ruling party elite the wrong way.

Does it really matter if it's Jews or Buddhist monks who are being killed and persecuted?

Shame on you, if you can't see the similarities between the two regimes.

post #45 of 100
Since Apple is a high profile multinational company, it's risks of violating any country's laws are infinitely greater than that of any individual's risk. As one commenter noted, TOR is a great alternative. The developer could take its app to Cydia. Besides, Cydia is the marketplace for the more adventurous users.

In the meantime, articles like this will kick off the best free advertising imaginable.
post #46 of 100
Removing apps that break the law. Yeah, that is a HORRIBLE thing for Apple to do!
post #47 of 100
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
post #48 of 100

I'm beginning to think the Chinese are a bunch of baby whiners. Yes, Apple should just continue to allow law breaking in China. 

post #49 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbm View Post

Since Apple is a high profile multinational company, it's risks of violating any country's laws are infinitely greater than that of any individual's risk. As one commenter noted, TOR is a great alternative. The developer could take its app to Cydia. Besides, Cydia is the marketplace for the more adventurous users.

In the meantime, articles like this will kick off the best free advertising imaginable.

The risk isn't big at all: it is forsaking doing business in a country run by a bad regime. It's common practice which is why Apple does no business in North Korea, Syria, Iran, Cuba...

It's just that the US has grown so dependent on China and cheap imports that the US can't afford to take stance against the regime anymore. Difficult to oppose a regime that holds most of the US national debt and which could collapse the US economy with the equivalent of an economic nuke by dumping all that debt onto the market.
For the similar reasons the US can't stand up against the regimes of various oil exporting countries...
Addiction is a bad foundation to stand on for any one or any country that claims to be a moral compass for the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Newcomb View Post

Removing apps that break the law. Yeah, that is a HORRIBLE thing for Apple to do!

Anything can be law, even systematic genocide. The question is what us the value of the law and if one identifies with that value. A person or institution with integrity doesn't abide by immoral laws and will instead exercise civil disobedience or boycott a particular country.
What Apple does is show that they have little spine, unfortunately, they are no exception.

Even more disgusting are various US companies that helped China build their censorship infrastructure...

But the bottom line is, that just because something is law somewhere doesn't make it justifiable.
post #50 of 100

Ridiculously simple situation.

 

Comply with Chinese law, and you get to sell your product in China. 

 

Don't comply with Chinese law, and you don't get to sell your product in China. And no iPhones for consumers in China.

 

And the law we're talking about here isn't anything particularly brutal. China's government is Commnunist, but market/capital-centric. There are going to be a few trade-offs. The particular one that caused Apple to do what they did in this situation isn't really anything to write home about. It's "news" because Apple drew criticism for it, unreasonable as it may have been.

post #51 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

Didn't Google pull out of China for this reason?

 

Yes they did.  Because the chinese government was hacking into googles search database and also blocking searches.  

Here's a good article on the matter:  http://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3

post #52 of 100
When you won't do things the way the Chinese authorities insist this is the result:
http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/disruptions/#region=CN&expand=ALL

With a huge population and lots of money to be had making the choice to buck the Chinese government isn't good for business.
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post #53 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post


I wonder how China would feel if Apple closed up shop there and moved all of their manufacturing to Taiwan? I'll bet they would be open to negotiating then ...

Your black and white views of China are wildly out of step with reality. If not for outside influences pushing China's human rights policies, there would be no market for iDevices there.

I'm glad I'm not living in your America where the South's economic model was based on slavery, and all that matters is selling more cotton.

 

I think you are a fool.  Don't you know Apple does not have an Apple retail store in Taiwan?  Do you know the reason? Taiwanese hate Apple.  

post #54 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

 

Google caved.  They went back to allowing China to censor search results but Google put a message up to the user saying that the results had been censored.  That message was dropped early this year.

lol

post #55 of 100

These activists are very selfish.  Did they try to make an Android version of the app?  The iPhone is only #7 in China.  The number 1 to number 6 smartphones in China are all running Androids.  Why would Apple be utilized by these people?  Personally I don't think these activists are good for China.  And this is the reason they are banned.  

post #56 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When you won't do things the way the Chinese authorities insist this is the result:
http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/disruptions/#region=CN&expand=ALL

With a huge population and lots of money to be had making the choice to buck the Chinese government isn't good for business.

 

Can Americans do things againest the US government?  I don't think so.  So your logic is flawed.  

post #57 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

I think you are a fool.  Don't you know Apple does not have an Apple retail store in Taiwan?  Do you know the reason? Taiwanese hate Apple.  

1) By your logic anywhere Apple doesn't have a store is because the native people hate Apple. Now do you really think that's the case?

2) There have been stories before with Apple working with Taiwanese companies. I think most recently it was about making machines to help make devices. Regardless. what the people may feel about a company's product is usually irrelevant to how businesses feel about making a profit. IOW, if there is a Taiwanese company that can profit off Apple's needs then they will do their best to make that happen even if they prefer their shitty Android phones over iPhones.
post #58 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

Can Americans do things againest the US government?  I don't think so.  So your logic is flawed.  

Of course they can. Case in point, Americans shut down the government this past week. You can say that's Congress but it's made up of Americans, and those Americans are influenced by other Americans. In this case crazy Americans, but still Americans.
post #59 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
 

 

I think you are a fool.  Don't you know Apple does not have an Apple retail store in Taiwan?  Do you know the reason? Taiwanese hate Apple.  

 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I guarantee the Taiwanese would bend over backwards if Apple moved their manufacturing out of China and into Taiwan. What are they gonna do, sabotage the thousands of jobs Apple brings to the nation? Besides the point is not where Apple moves their manufacturing, its that they threaten to move them out of China. That is a major bargaining chip.

post #60 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I guarantee the Taiwanese would bend over backwards if Apple moved their manufacturing out of China and into Taiwan. What are they gonna do, sabotage the thousands of jobs Apple brings to the nation? Besides the point is not where Apple moves their manufacturing, its that they threaten to move them out of China. That is a major bargaining chip.

On Apple threatening to move production out of China it would likely be an empty threat unless they can 1) get more automation, and/or 2) move to India. The latter I think is the long term plan anyway as China's economy gets more demanding (and rightly so) for higher wages. It may also allow for lower tariffs in India which could allow for lower prices for Indian consumers in the future.
post #61 of 100
My point was the material risks (litigation, resourcing and revenue loss) are far greater for a large company like Apple than for an individual. For Apple to continue to offer a product that violates a law of any country in which it operates makes no sense. Leaving the China marketplace over this issue also makes no sense - especially given the many alternatives to the app in question.

You have every right to rail against China for its various policies. You also have every right to disagree with Apple's choice to avoid conflict on this issue so that it can more comfortably stay in the China marketplace. Accordingly, it's fair for you to continue to protest - or even refuse to buy its products.

However, Apple also has every right to do what it thinks best for it's long term health and it's shareholders.
post #62 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


1) By your logic anywhere Apple doesn't have a store is because the native people hate Apple. Now do you really think that's the case?

2) There have been stories before with Apple working with Taiwanese companies. I think most recently it was about making machines to help make devices. Regardless. what the people may feel about a company's product is usually irrelevant to how businesses feel about making a profit. IOW, if there is a Taiwanese company that can profit off Apple's needs then they will do their best to make that happen even if they prefer their shitty Android phones over iPhones.

 

1. thought most people already know Taiwan so I did not elaborate.  Taiwan is one of the four dragons.  The other three all have Apple retail stores.  Taiwan is a high tech manufacturing base.   Most other nations that do not have an Apple retail lack the criteria Taiwan have. 

 

2. Yes, two Taiwanese companies already assemble products for Apple.  But the manufacturing is in China.  So anybody advocating Apple move manufacturing to Taiwan is a fool and is purely politically motivated.  

post #63 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


Of course they can. Case in point, Americans shut down the government this past week. You can say that's Congress but it's made up of Americans, and those Americans are influenced by other Americans. In this case crazy Americans, but still Americans.

 

The shutdown is not what is being talked about here.  What we are talking about are laws.  

post #64 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


On Apple threatening to move production out of China it would likely be an empty threat unless they can 1) get more automation, and/or 2) move to India. The latter I think is the long term plan anyway as China's economy gets more demanding (and rightly so) for higher wages. It may also allow for lower tariffs in India which could allow for lower prices for Indian consumers in the future.

 

Are you from India?  It seems you don't know India.  I have read that India even not allowing foreign companiese to own retail stores there.  This is why Apple has to sell iPhones through Indian retailers.  

post #65 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

The risk isn't big at all: it is forsaking doing business in a country run by a bad regime. It's common practice which is why Apple does no business in North Korea, Syria, Iran, Cuba...

 

No.  Companies don't do business with these nations because it is prohibited by Federal law.  The ITAR regulations prohibit the sale of (among other things) devices that include strong cryptography.  Apple couldn't sell to these nations without making a stripped-down device lacking all of the prohibited hardware and software, which would probably cost more than it's worth.

 

But plenty of companies do make stripped-down tech products for sale to these countries.  For instance, companies making phone switching equipment (how do you think these countries get phone service?  They're not all using 50-year-old equipment.)

 

In other words, this has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with what is legal.

post #66 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


This prior art thing has got to stop!

 

"Proof is irrelevant" - Solipsism
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post #67 of 100

The US version of this “free” app sells ad removal as an IAP at $1 per month, or $9 per year. 

 

So the developer is mad that Apple isn’t sanctioning it profit from adware draped over readily available VPN firewall-bypass technology, and is positing the story as “Apple censoring!” 

post #68 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

A few years ago Google redirected Chinese users to their Hong Kong Google search which wasn't censored and allowed people to search terms like "tiananmen square" and it royally pissed off the Chinese government.  The Chinese gov't blocked Google and Google caved.  They went back to allowing China to censor search results but Google put a message up to the user saying that the results had been censored.  That message was dropped early this year.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/04/google-concedes-defeat-in-china-censorship-battle/
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post #69 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post
 

Yeah right. Anything for a buck is ok. Good thinking. Wanna buy some crack ?

 

Want to buy an App that tells you how to make crack and meth, along with links to suppliers for the prerequisites?

 

So would such an App be withdrawn under American law?

 

How about an App that shows you how to make bombs?

 

Laws have to be obeyed in the markets the App store is available in.

 

Does Android have apps like these available, being "open and less restrictive"?

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post #70 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
 

These activists are very selfish.  Did they try to make an Android version of the app?  The iPhone is only #7 in China.  The number 1 to number 6 smartphones in China are all running Androids.  Why would Apple be utilized by these people?  Personally I don't think these activists are good for China.  And this is the reason they are banned.  

 

Here we go: another one of the bloggers/internet posters paid by the Chinese government to spread their views and dilute the public opinion. Remember the recent micro-blogging disaster, when "people" were outraged at news before the news actually broke, because they were paid to post pro-government opinions and didn't bother to check if the news had actually happened already?

 

Who cares what's good for China (read: the Chinese government and it's cronies)? What matters is what's good for the liberty of the Chinese people and the people who are suppressed by the Chinese government, like the autonomous Tibet.

 

Yes, these activists are "selfish", because the Chinese government is completely "selfless"... Hahahah!

Everyone programs on whatever platform they are comfortable with. I wouldn't program for Windows unless threatened with certain death or being paid at least ten times the going rate, because I hate the API, the tools, etc. If these people are OS X/iOS users, they will not program for Android regardless of how many users of Android there are, because there are enough Android programmers to make an equivalent piece of software for that platform.

Regardless what your political point of view is, your activism will always be applied where your field of competence is.

post #71 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I guarantee the Taiwanese would bend over backwards if Apple moved their manufacturing out of China and into Taiwan. What are they gonna do, sabotage the thousands of jobs Apple brings to the nation? Besides the point is not where Apple moves their manufacturing, its that they threaten to move them out of China. That is a major bargaining chip.

You do realise Foxconn, Apple's main manufacturer, is Taiwanese, right?
post #72 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When you won't do things the way the Chinese authorities insist this is the result:
http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/disruptions/#region=CN&expand=ALL

With a huge population and lots of money to be had making the choice to buck the Chinese government isn't good for business.

 

Can Americans do things againest the US government?  I don't think so.  So your logic is flawed.  

 

Americans do constantly things against the US government. Heck, even the US government does things against the US government, which is why we currently have a US government shut-down. It's called democracy, civil-disobedience, protest, riots, law-suits, etc. People use all the tools at their disposal, and then some, to make sure government doesn't go beyond it's limits.

If none of that helps, people take up arms, engage in whistle-blowing like Ed Snowden, etc.

 

So yes, as much as we constantly have to fear an overbearing government, people thankfully DO STAND UP against the government in the USA. That's why it's still a great country, despite all its flaws.

post #73 of 100
Quote:

I think you are a fool.  Don't you know Apple does not have an Apple retail store in Taiwan?  Do you know the reason? Taiwanese hate Apple.  

 

The Taiwanese don't hate Apple. Many of the Taiwanese may not have enough money to afford Apple, but they don't hate it. They do hate, by and large, the mainland Chinese government.

 

The reason Apple doesn't have retail stores in Taiwan is the same reason they removed the app from the AppStore: so-called "communist" mainland China (which is more like fascist mainland China) does not recognize Taiwan as an independent political entity and considers it a "rogue, secessionist province" and thus Apple having a true Taiwan presence would put it on the shit-list of the Chinese government.

 

So when faced with selling to a billion people market or a 24 million people market, Apple chose the billion people market.

 

That's the same reason why Taiwan isn't a member of the United Nations. It's money and power vs. morals and ethics.

 

For the average American who has no clue, see also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

post #74 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I guarantee the Taiwanese would bend over backwards if Apple moved their manufacturing out of China and into Taiwan. What are they gonna do, sabotage the thousands of jobs Apple brings to the nation? Besides the point is not where Apple moves their manufacturing, its that they threaten to move them out of China. That is a major bargaining chip.

You do realise Foxconn, Apple's main manufacturer, is Taiwanese, right?

 

Yes, but the actual manufacturing happens in mainland China. There is an odd tension-yet-collaboration-yet-hate between the monied and political powerful elites of Taiwan and China. Unless you have at least a cursory familiarity with Chinese culture and history, what's going on between China and Taiwan is hard to understand.

 

Imagine Yankees vs. Dixie, but with an odd mixture of ethical and cultural merits between both sides and a civil war that ended in a stalemate, then maybe you can somehow appreciate the tension, connection and separation between Taiwan and China.

post #75 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Yes, but the actual manufacturing happens in mainland China. There is an odd tension-yet-collaboration-yet-hate between the monied and political powerful elites of Taiwan and China. Unless you have at least a cursory familiarity with Chinese culture and history, what's going on between China and Taiwan is hard to understand.

Imagine Yankees vs. Dixie, but with an odd mixture of ethical and cultural merits between both sides and a civil war that ended in a stalemate, then maybe you can somehow appreciate the tension, connection and separation between Taiwan and China.

I'm familiar with Chinese history. Just not sure why anybody would think manufacturing could be moved to Taiwan. Taiwanese companies generally manufacture on the mainland.

As for the lack of an official store. Apple sells in Taiwan, there are authorised sellers there, they work with Taiwanese companies and they're setting up an R&D facility there. I doubt the absence of a retail store has anything to do with politics. It's most likely because Taiwan is relatively small.
post #76 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post
I doubt the absence of a retail store has anything to do with politics. It's most likely because Taiwan is relatively small.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Having an official corporate presence in Taiwan that's distinct from doing business in (mainland) China is a tad too close for comfort to endorsing Taiwan as an entitiy distinct from (mainland) China.

Doing business with a Taiwan-owned manufacturing company that does all the actual manufacturing in (mainland) China is different, because at least in theory, sooner or late Taiwan will be rejoined with (mainland) China anyway (so goes the thinking), and in the mean time there's actual money and work coming to the "real" (mainland) China.

 

 

Of course, Taiwan's wage level is much too high, there are no poor rural migrant workers to draw upon. Taiwan has essentially a 1st world economy, with highly educated and comparatively expensive work force.

Manufacturing could however be moved to Vietnam, but that's where the odd love-hate relationship between mainland China and Taiwan comes into play. You rather give business to the brother you hate than to the stranger you don't mind, or something like that.

 

China and Taiwan are best comprehended in terms of sibling rivalry...

post #77 of 100

Agreed!

post #78 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post
 

 

Here we go: another one of the bloggers/internet posters paid by the Chinese government to spread their views and dilute the public opinion. Remember the recent micro-blogging disaster, when "people" were outraged at news before the news actually broke, because they were paid to post pro-government opinions and didn't bother to check if the news had actually happened already?

 

Who cares what's good for China (read: the Chinese government and it's cronies)? What matters is what's good for the liberty of the Chinese people and the people who are suppressed by the Chinese government, like the autonomous Tibet.

 

Yes, these activists are "selfish", because the Chinese government is completely "selfless"... Hahahah!

Everyone programs on whatever platform they are comfortable with. I wouldn't program for Windows unless threatened with certain death or being paid at least ten times the going rate, because I hate the API, the tools, etc. If these people are OS X/iOS users, they will not program for Android regardless of how many users of Android there are, because there are enough Android programmers to make an equivalent piece of software for that platform.

Regardless what your political point of view is, your activism will always be applied where your field of competence is.

 

Your rhetoric is typical of American anti-China propaganda for the last several hundred years.  The Chinese cultural values are traditionally disciplinary.  This is not originated from communism.  This Chinese cultural value is one of the reasons US Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act around 1870 when the word communism does not even exist.  

 

I don't think you know the value of freedom of speech.  You think American values are great and can not be challenged.  Yet any one try to raise facts that are different from the US media has been brainwah you for the last fifty years, you imagined that they are being paid by the Chinese government to do so.  

 

Why do you religion in China can not be wrong?  Especially to those Tibetans that burn themselves?  Can you say that these things has never happened in US?  Do you want me to teach you the US history about a religious sect in US that killed over of the followers because a US representative is accusing their leader?  I think Jesus once said when you want to throw a stone first think if you are innocent by yourself.  

post #79 of 100

Apple is obeying the law- and should.  If the Chinese people don't like their laws they should elect officials that will enable laws they like.  If they don't like the fact that they *can't* elect their officials, they need to revolt and govern themselves in such a way they can.

 

It isn't Apple's job to fix China.

post #80 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post
 

 

The Taiwanese don't hate Apple. Many of the Taiwanese may not have enough money to afford Apple, but they don't hate it. They do hate, by and large, the mainland Chinese government.

 

The reason Apple doesn't have retail stores in Taiwan is the same reason they removed the app from the AppStore: so-called "communist" mainland China (which is more like fascist mainland China) does not recognize Taiwan as an independent political entity and considers it a "rogue, secessionist province" and thus Apple having a true Taiwan presence would put it on the shit-list of the Chinese government.

 

So when faced with selling to a billion people market or a 24 million people market, Apple chose the billion people market.

 

That's the same reason why Taiwan isn't a member of the United Nations. It's money and power vs. morals and ethics.

 

For the average American who has no clue, see also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

 

You are really a political animal.  Why would China care if Apple open a retail store in Taiwan?  Your arguments are so weak that they don't make sense at all.  

Let me tell you the real reason Taiwan is hostile to Apple.  Taiwan made a fortune in the last thirty years producing Windows devices.  They think Apple is their main obstacle to the fortune.  Apple knows how poorly iPhones are sold in Taiwan.  Therefore Apple does not open a retail store there.  

Personally I feel this Taiwanese hostility toward Apple is stupid.  

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