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Nest announces Protect intelligent smoke & carbon monoxide detector

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
Former Apple executive Tony Fadell's Nest on Tuesday took the covers off of its newest intelligent home product, a smoke and carbon monoxide detector dubbed 'Nest Protect.'

Nest Protect


Nest on Tuesday added the Nest Protect to its offerings alongside the well-received Nest Learning Thermostat. The device's unveiling comes after rumors of the product began circulating last month.

The company said it chose a smoke detector as the followup to its successful thermostat because the current generation of devices often annoy homeowners and renters into disabling them all together, decreasing safety dramatically. Nest cited a study by the National Fire Protection Agency that found 73 percent of smoke detectors which failed to activate during a fire did not do so because their batteries were dead, missing, or disconnected, with false alarms cited as the most prominent reason for disabling the detectors.

Protect


In addition to detecting smoke and carbon monoxide ??a colorless, odorless, tasteless gas that is toxic to people and pets ??the Nest Protect features several user experience innovations. The device will produce a spoken warning, rather than a shrill alarm, if it detects levels of smoke or carbon monoxide that are considered below emergency levels, for instance. Warnings can be silenced by simply waving one's arm from within about eight feet of the Nest Protect.

Like its sibling, the Nest Learning Thermostat, the Nest Protect connects to Nest's cloud service via Wi-Fi and can be monitored and configured with an iOS application. If a home has several Nest Protect units, they can communicate with each other even if Wi-Fi is not working to deliver emergency warnings throughout the residence; Nest demonstrates this by showing a Nest Protect in a couple's living room broadcasting an alert that smoke has been detected in their bedroom.

Protect


The Nest Protect also communicates with the Nest Learning Thermostat. In the event of a carbon monoxide warning, the Nest Protect will instruct the thermostat to shut down a home's gas furnace. Additionally, The Nest Learning Thermostat can leverage the Nest Protect's built-in activity sensor to enhance and extend its own capabilities.

Similar in size and shape to Apple's previous generation AirPort Extreme, the Nest Protect comes in two versions ??battery powered and wired ??and will be available at launch in both black and white. It can be pre-ordered for $129.

When the Nest Learning Thermostat first launched two years ago, it promised to bring smart home capabilities to the masses with a somewhat affordable $250 price tag. The original device was sold through Apple Stores and home improvement chains like Lowes.

A second-generation thermostat was released about one year ago, with the aluminum clad device getting a slight redesign and enhanced functionality. It's available from Amazon and other retailers for roughly $250.
post #2 of 65
I love the idea but I think the price will sink it. Really too bad.
post #3 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

I love the idea but I think the price will sink it. Really too bad.

If $250 didn't sink the thermostat, I'm not sure why $129 would sink a smoke detector.
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post #4 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


If $250 didn't sink the thermostat, I'm not sure why $129 would sink a smoke detector.

 

In my case, my home requires only one thermostat for a total of $250, but five smoke detectors for a total of $645 (local codes dictate that a typical 3-bedroom, single-story home requires five detectors). Plus, CO detectors have a finite life - typically requiring replacement every five to ten years because the CO detection becomes ineffective. Most CO/smoke detectors will emit a specific "chirp" when they expire. Nest has not yet mentioned this "little" fact. Perhaps they are using a new type of CO detection that doesn't wear out, but I doubt it. I suppose you could buy only one or two Nest detectors and use cheaper detectors elsewhere, but the cheaper detectors won't communicate with the Nest and you lose most of the advantages - you can't "wave" at cheaper detectors nor will they report your location. In fact, it's often not even legal to mix detectors since codes required them to be linked together so if one goes off they all go off. It will be interesting to read the legal disclaimers that accompany this product. Fire safety devices are governed by far more codes and requirements than thermostats.


Edited by zroger73 - 10/8/13 at 9:23am
post #5 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


If $250 didn't sink the thermostat, I'm not sure why $129 would sink a smoke detector.

 

I have 7 linked smoked detectors in my house.  The cost/benefit on that becomes challenging for many.

post #6 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post

In my case, my home requires only one thermostat for a total of $250, but five smoke detectors for a total of $645 (local codes dictate that a typical 3-bedroom, single-story home requires five detectors). Plus, CO detectors have a finite life - typically requiring replacement every five to ten years because the CO detection becomes ineffective. Most CO/smoke detectors will emit a specific "chirp" when they expire. Nest has not yet mentioned this "little" fact. Perhaps they are using a new type of CO detection that doesn't wear out, but I doubt it. I suppose you could buy only one or two Nest detectors and use cheaper detectors elsewhere, but the cheaper detectors won't communicate with the Nest and you lose most of the advantages - you can't "wave" at cheaper detectors nor will they report your location. In fact, it's often not even legal to mix detectors since codes required them to be linked together so if one goes off they all go off. It will be interesting to read the legal disclaimers that accompany this product. Fire safety devices are governed by far more codes and requirements than thermostats.

Exactly, was about to say the same thing.

My home has 7 smoke detectors...i can't imagine sinking $1000 into smoke detectors. Would have loved to see Nest go after home security or something, like Canary.
post #7 of 65

The Nest thermostat was cool because it's something you interact with once in a while and it looked good. The smoke/C.O. detector is something you install and forget about until battery replacement. I don't think this will be near as popular as the thermostat. Most people also don't want a black device on a white ceiling (hopefully they offer it in white).

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post #8 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


If $250 didn't sink the thermostat, I'm not sure why $129 would sink a smoke detector.

 

I have 11 smoke detectors and only 2 thermostats.  That's $1,548.  I don't think I want 11 wifi devices helping to clog up my network either.

 

I really like the idea, but honestly- using a monitoring company in addition to your security alarm is typically a much better choice- and at no additional cost other than the hardware.  They hardwire a couple of smoke detectors into your security system and monitor it.

 

Again- great idea- particularly using automatic lights to light your way at night, wave to silence, and turning off your furnace when it detects CO- Nest is definitely attractive and trendy and on its way to commonplace automation in the home.  But currently, it's still not the best option out there unless you're in a small condo or apartment home.


Edited by Andysol - 10/8/13 at 9:35am

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post #9 of 65

Starting to feel unsafe that my house has only 1 smoke detector...

post #10 of 65

I hate to be a party pooper, but I think this is going to turn out to be an epic failure for Nest. The detector requires AC power - something that the homeowner would have to pay an electrician to take care of in older homes in addition to the high price of the detectors themselves.

 

As for their thermostat - I love mine, but I feel they should be free. Why? Think about how much data they are harvesting from the hundreds of thousands of Nest thermostats in use. By sensing motion, light, wall temperature, ambient temperature, user temperatures, humidity, and knowing your utility (gas/electric) consumption by linking to utility companies through a recent acquisition, they can determine TONS of information including:

 

Size of your home

Size of your HVAC

When you're home

Your temperature and humidity preferences

Efficiency of your home

Efficiency of your HVAC system

Type of HVAC system

When you go to bed and when you wake up

The size of your home

When your home was built

Where you live

You local weather conditions

...

The list goes on. Nest is gathering extremely valuable data about real-world HVAC usage. This data is worth its virtual weight in gold to LOTS of people including utility companies, product manufacturers, our government... The concept of collecting, analyzing, and selling data is what is going to make Nest a fortune - not the hardware.

post #11 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post

In my case, my home requires only one thermostat for a total of $250, but five smoke detectors for a total of $645 (local codes dictate that a typical 3-bedroom, single-story home requires five detectors).

Not everyone is like you. They don't need to suit every single potential customer in order to be successful.

My home has 2 smoke detectors and 2 thermostats.

Not to mention, of course, that the smoke detectors just might save your life.
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post #12 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Not everyone is like you. They don't need to suit every single potential customer in order to be successful.

My home has 2 smoke detectors and 2 thermostats.

Not to mention, of course, that the smoke detectors just might save your life.

 

No, not everyone is like me - obviously, some require MORE than 5 detectors! If your home is large enough to require two HVAC systems, then having only 2 smoke detectors is probably well below the minimum required by the NFPA for new construction. I agree that every home should have working smoke detectors - and the correct number. If you have one in each bedroom and the doors are closed at night, they won't do any good if your kitchen catches fire until its too late. The NFPA requires a smoke detector in each bedroom and additional detectors in hallways outside of bedrooms and by a garage at minimum. Most houses will require at least five detectors. Nest wants you to put a detector in every room - bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens, garages, family rooms, studies, laundry rooms, etc. so you can pinpoint where the fire is. THAT is above and beyond what is reasonable and is a very different (and significantly more upscale) market than that of a $250 thermostat.

post #13 of 65
So wait, when does Skynet become self-aware?
post #14 of 65
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post
Starting to feel unsafe that my house has only 1 smoke detector...

 

You should have one on every floor. Doesn’t have to be anything special.

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post #15 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
 

I hate to be a party pooper, but I think this is going to turn out to be an epic failure for Nest. The detector requires AC power - something that the homeowner would have to pay an electrician to take care of in older homes in addition to the high price of the detectors themselves.

 

There are four versions of this - two black, two white - each color having a wired (AC) version and a battery powered version.  Battery powered version will only connect to the network once a day to check for updates/communicate with Nest thermostat, wired version will connect every half hour (specs: nest . com /smoke-co-alarm/inside-and-out/)

post #16 of 65
In the UK you're only allowed hardwired ones linked together and encouraged to use ones with a built in backup battery so in the event of a power failure the alarms still work. Battery only ones aren't allowed at all and a wifi network isn't acceptable for connecting them. It makes the Nest Product useless and non compliant with current regulations.
post #17 of 65
Nice if not as elegant looking as the company's thermostats, but still much better designed than other smoke-detectors...as it should be given the steep price, for a product of this type.
post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Not everyone is like you. They don't need to suit every single potential customer in order to be successful.

My home has 2 smoke detectors and 2 thermostats.

Not to mention, of course, that the smoke detectors just might save your life.

 

Have you replaced your 2 thermostats with Nest Thermostats yet jrag?  And are you going to replace your 2 smoke detectors with these?

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post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Not everyone is like you. They don't need to suit every single potential customer in order to be successful.

My home has 2 smoke detectors and 2 thermostats.

Not to mention, of course, that the smoke detectors just might save your life.

 

So do the regular ones. I've never once taken a smoke detector down because it was chirping in the middle of the night. But yes, these look very nice and will sell to many. My local building codes would make it cost-prohibitive for me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudda View Post

In the UK you're only allowed hardwired ones linked together and encouraged to use ones with a built in backup battery so in the event of a power failure the alarms still work. Battery only ones aren't allowed at all and a wifi network isn't acceptable for connecting them. It makes the Nest Product useless and non compliant with current regulations.

 

Nest does make hardwired ones. The requirement for the hardwired link is for two reasons - power and comms. But the law was written when wireless comms didn't exist in smoke detectors. I'll bet you could get it changed to accept WiFi, AC wired models.

post #20 of 65

The great thing about this device is that you can stop it going off by waving at it. If your house has many detectors probably only one or two go off frequently. I have taken out the one on the ground floor because it sometimes goes off when cooking. To have a detector that can warns you and which you can then silence is worth its steep price. The other detectors can stay as they are.  

post #21 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudda View Post

In the UK you're only allowed hardwired ones linked together and encouraged to use ones with a built in backup battery so in the event of a power failure the alarms still work. Battery only ones aren't allowed at all and a wifi network isn't acceptable for connecting them. It makes the Nest Product useless and non compliant with current regulations.

 

Similar to how it works here in the US. The NFPA (National Fire Protection Assocation) publishes the most widely accepted standards in the US. Most people don't know or even need to know who they are, but these are the folks that publish NFPA 70 - also know as the "National Electrical Code". They publish the standards that affect electricity, gas, fireplaces, chimneys, cooking equipment, heaters, smoke detectors, alarm systems, wiring, fire trucks, fire hydrants, fire extinguishers - pretty much anything you can think of that has to do with anything fire or safety related.

 

NFPA says about smoke detectors:

 

One in each each bedroom AND

One outside each sleeping area AND

One on each level

Hardwire interconnected so they all go off if one goes off

Installed by a qualified electrician (this does not include homeowners unless they are qualified electricians)

Replace every 10 years (or sooner if they fail a monthly test or recommend by the manufacturer)

 

Most jurisdictions adopt NFPA 72 National Fire Code standards as part of their code requirements. Detectors that are not AC powered or hardwired together are not permitted in new construction! It appears there is NO MODEL of Nest detector that meets current requirements for smoke detectors in new construction. Certainly, Nest is aware of this - you'd think!

post #22 of 65

Directly from the Nest Protect manual:

 

- Must be replaced every 7 years

- Residential use only - not for commercial or industrial use (can't use it at your office, unlike the Nest thermostat)

- Should be installed in accordance with NFPA 72 (specifies number, type, and location of detectors and how they are to be installed)

 

So, a typical 3-bedroom, single-story home...

 

5 detectors at $129 each installed in 2 hours by a qualified electrician charging $100/hr. will cost about $900 every 7 years.

 

This is how Nest attempts to protect themselves:

 

"Specific requirements for Smoke Alarm 
installation vary from state to state and from 
region to region. Check with your local Fire 
Department for current requirements in your area."

post #23 of 65

Seems a lot of rehash of the same that was said about the thermostat.

post #24 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post

Detectors that are not AC powered or hardwired together are not permitted in new construction! It appears there is NO MODEL of Nest detector that meets current requirements for smoke detectors in new construction. Certainly, Nest is aware of this - you'd think!

First you claim there are no battery operated Next Protect and now you claim there are no hardwired Nest Protect. Talk about flip-flopping.
post #25 of 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudda View Post
In the UK you're only allowed hardwired ones linked together and encouraged to use ones with a built in backup battery so in the event of a power failure the alarms still work. Battery only ones aren't allowed at all and a wifi network isn't acceptable for connecting them. It makes the Nest Product useless and non compliant with current regulations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
...It appears there is NO MODEL of Nest detector that meets current requirements for smoke detectors in new construction. Certainly, Nest is aware of this - you'd think!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
...
Like its sibling, the Nest Learning Thermostat, the Nest Protect connects to Nest's cloud service via Wi-Fi and can be monitored and configured with an iOS application. If a home has several Nest Protect units, they can communicate with each other even if Wi-Fi is not working to deliver emergency warnings throughout the residence; ...

 

Note the emphasis added to the original article.  They can all communicate even if WiFi is not available. (and again, always check local code for ANY product)
 

post #26 of 65
While this is way overpriced for most people who require several, hopefully the wireless technology pushes the regulations to catch up to new tech. This will benefit all as other companies will be able to come out w/similar products c
post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Have you replaced your 2 thermostats with Nest Thermostats yet jrag?  And are you going to replace your 2 smoke detectors with these?

Nope. I may be moving soon and don't see any reason to put money into the house.
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post #28 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post
 

Quote:

Quote:

 

 

Note the emphasis added to the original article.  They can all communicate even if WiFi is not available.
 

 

They may not require Wi-Fi to communicate, but they don't do it over the wire that is normally dedicated to interconnection of smoke detectors (typically the red wire). The manual states they communicate over radio frequency. Neither Wi-Fi nor RF meets the requirements for hardwired interconnection of smoke detectors. Shockingly, the manual specifically states to cap off and not use the interconnect wire when replacing an existing smoke detector! I smell some liability issues brewing here. The first time someone dies of a fire or smoke inhalation in a home equipped with a Nest detector, Nest will probably get sued and end up settling out of court for hundreds of thousands of dollars before modifying their product and pulling out of the detector market.

post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I have 11 smoke detectors and only 2 thermostats.  That's $1,548.  I don't think I want 11 wifi devices helping to clog up my network either.

Holy cow! That's a lot of detectors! Our 2 floor (+ basement) 2000 sq ft home only needs 3 detectors - 1 on each level. And only 1 thermostat. When I get my own place, I would love to get a Nest product.
post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post


Holy cow! That's a lot of detectors! Our 2 floor (+ basement) 2000 sq ft home only needs 3 detectors - 1 on each level. And only 1 thermostat. When I get my own place, I would love to get a Nest product.

 

That wouldn't work here in the US. In addition to the 1 on each level, you must also have 1 in each bedroom and more - see previous posts or read the NFPA 72 standard.

post #31 of 65

   I always thought CO, being heavier than air tended to sink, and therefore most sensors for it were designed to be placed nearer to the floor, typically at wall plug height.  While it's cool that this device detects the poisonous gas, I have to wonder how effective it will be at ceiling height, especially if there is little to no circulation in the home at the time. 

post #32 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorOfMuppets View Post
 

   I always thought CO, being heavier than air tended to sink, and therefore most sensors for it were designed to be placed nearer to the floor, typically at wall plug height.  While it's cool that this device detects the poisonous gas, I have to wonder how effective it will be at ceiling height, especially if there is little to no circulation in the home at the time. 

 

The specific gravity of CO is 0.968, so it is slightly lighter than air at 70°F, but not by much. It would rise very, very slowly, but it would rise. Considering that CO is most likely to be produced by heating appliances, the CO tends to be warmer, so it would rise more quickly.

post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Not everyone is like you. They don't need to suit every single potential customer in order to be successful.

My home has 2 smoke detectors and 2 thermostats.

Not to mention, of course, that the smoke detectors just might save your life

 

A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.

post #34 of 65
There's a bigger plan here - the aligns with the recent API.
What if these smoke detectors were actually creating a zigbee/zwave mesh network in your home and somewhere next year you could suddenly use those expensive (but smart) detectors as your home automation backbone.

So suddenly your Shlage front door lock or the GE dimmers can be operated remote through the Nest cloud and app.

There's a plan behind this!
post #35 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Would have loved to see Nest go after home security or something, like Canary.

 

I was pushing for home automation. Every year I look around my house and think "Automate ALL the things!", then I look at what's available, especially the low level APIs, and get annoyed.

post #36 of 65

I can see it already... Fire starts in the middle of the night. Every iPhone and iPad in the house starts going off with instructions on where the fire is located and what to do. Then, the Wi-Fi router melts and communication with the iDevices is lost. Nobody knows where the fire is or what to do next so everybody burns up. So much for $1,000 worth of smoke detectors that text you if your house is going up in flames!

 

Meanwhile, the sensible family down the street has five $20 detectors that all start beeping in the middle of the night. Instinctively, they all exit through the nearest door or window then call then immediately call the fire department. The fire is extinguished and everyone returns to a peaceful sleep.

 

Sometimes, it isn't necessary or advantageous to over-complicate things. 99.999% of all toilets still flush the same way they did 100 years ago. Car tires are still round. Toilet paper still comes in rolls. And, there is no advantage in changing that.

post #37 of 65
Ok people...

 



1 - ALWAYS check with your state, county, and city rules before doing ANYTHING with your HAVAC systems. Even some areas have restrictions on thermistats, hence the reason people even recommend a licensed electrician to install even a thermostat.

 


2 - ALWAYS check your state, county, and city rules on detectors of any kind. Depending on age of building, and such, rules change. Older building sometime get granfathered into older rules, sometimes you have to rip out and upgrade to code next round you have to do (within those 7-10 year replacement rules).

 


So my question is when all these wired groupings, one goes out, is it not more than the 30-50 bucks for a battery stand alone one? So it would not be much more for the Nest one. Unless you can get a 30 buck one, which with connected ones need more electronics, which means more money. Then if they are also CO as well, is more electronics. So, it depends on your code's and your pocketbook, if this item would be for you. If not, wait a bit, they will upgrade, or change it a bit to get more to fully update coded. This is the first generation for petes sake... give them a bit of time.

 


And as someone already put it, have we not heard all this gripping about price when the thermostat came out??? And that went down in flames how? Seems it is still around. So just like cars, you can pay 100K for a set of wheels or 30K for a set of wheels, still get you places. Up to the user on willing to pay the amount.

 


 

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post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post
 

 

A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.

 

That's the point. It won't if it is lying on a shelf somewhere with the battery next to it. By all accounts this is what happens when the damn things go off when they shouldn't. 

post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade View Post

Ok people...

 



1 - ALWAYS check with your state, county, and city rules before doing ANYTHING with your HAVAC systems. Even some areas have restrictions on thermistats, hence the reason people even recommend a licensed electrician to install even a thermostat.

 


2 - ALWAYS check your state, county, and city rules on detectors of any kind. Depending on age of building, and such, rules change. Older building sometime get granfathered into older rules, sometimes you have to rip out and upgrade to code next round you have to do (within those 7-10 year replacement rules).

 


So my question is when all these wired groupings, one goes out, is it not more than the 30-50 bucks for a battery stand alone one? So it would not be much more for the Nest one. Unless you can get a 30 buck one, which with connected ones need more electronics, which means more money. Then if they are also CO as well, is more electronics. So, it depends on your code's and your pocketbook, if this item would be for you. If not, wait a bit, they will upgrade, or change it a bit to get more to fully update coded. This is the first generation for petes sake... give them a bit of time.

 


And as someone already put it, have we not heard all this gripping about price when the thermostat came out??? And that went down in flames how? Seems it is still around. So just like cars, you can pay 100K for a set of wheels or 30K for a set of wheels, still get you places. Up to the user on willing to pay the amount.

 


 


I hear you, but this isn't quite the same. I have the Nest thermostat, love it. It has saved me about 10% this summer (in central Florida at that) with no other changes.

This detector is awesome, but at that price point, I can't see many people biting. Like someone already said, you install this and forget it, hoping you never need it. Not the same as the thermostat.

The tech lover in me wants it but the practical part of me says...nope. Too much money for something i will hopefully never need.
post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post

A $20 smoke detector will do just as good a job at saving your life.

I used to have a car I bought for $300. Drove it for years in my youth and it got me from point A to B just as effectively as my new, expensive car does today. Yet despite that myopic, utilitarian view I much prefer the comfort and peace of mind of my current transportation.
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