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64-bit CPUs seen bolstering possible 13" iPad notebook from Apple

post #1 of 84
Thread Starter 
The decision to move the A7 processor and iOS 7 to a 64-bit architecture may signal the beginning of a strategy for Apple to build a 13-inch, notebook-style iPad, one analyst has speculated.

iPad Space Gray
A purported rear casing for Apple's next-generation iPad 5 | Source: Sonny Dickson


In a note to investors on Tuesday, Ben A. Reitzes of Barclays Capital argued Apple may be in the early stages of preparing the iOS ecosystem for a transition from handheld mobile devices to more powerful devices capable of replacing lower-end and ultraportable notebook computers, such as the company's successful MacBook Air. He believes a new product of this type could eventually supersede the 10-inch iPad and the iPad Mini as Apple's second-largest revenue driver behind the iPhone.

Reitzes suspects that the 64-bit A7 was released in this year's iPhone 5s in order to jumpstart development of 64-bit-optimized iOS apps that would one day be able to take advantage of more than 4 gigabytes of RAM ? a requirement, he argued, for a larger-screened convertible iPad. The iPhone 5s features only 1 gigabyte of RAM, though developers are already taking advantage of the A7's increased performance to enable advanced audio and video features not possible with the previous 32-bit A-series processors.Ben A. Reitzes believes Apple's push for a 64-bit iOS, coupled with making iWork free for new iPad purchases, could be signs of a future iOS-powered notebook.

Choosing to make iWork free with every new iOS device purchase is seen as another sign that Cupertino is preparing to insert the iPad wedge further into the fracturing notebook market. Microsoft's Office suite has been conspicuously absent from Apple's tablet since the iPad's debut ??though outgoing Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer revealed on Tuesday that may soon change ??and Reitzes thinks that iWork, as a free, Office-compatible replacement, will fill that gap.

Such a product is needed to offset Apple's recent reliance on iPhone revenue, which accounts for more than 50 percent of Cupertino's trailing 12 month income, Reitzes said. Even if a 13-inch iPad were to cannibalize Mac sales ??unit sales of which have declined 7 percent year over year ? he believes that would be worth it for Apple, as the product could take 25 to 30 percent of the larger notebook market.

A new 13-inch convertible iPad could mean significant revenue increases for Apple as well, according to the analysis. Reitzes pegs the product's average sale price at "about $650" with 35 percent margins, calculating that every 10 million units sold would add approximately $2 to Apple's earnings per share. Apple sold 14.6 million iPads and 3.8 million Macs during the third quarter of 2013.

Supply chain rumblings support the possibility of a larger, convertible iPad or an iOS-based notebook, as reports out of China recently indicated that Apple may be working with longtime manufacturing partner Quanta Computer on a 12-inch version of the iPad.
post #2 of 84
But...but...64-bit is just a gimmick!

Mind not for rent, to any god or government.

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Mind not for rent, to any god or government.

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post #3 of 84

Give me a 15” running OS XI.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #4 of 84
Please keep us posted of every single analyst speculation, with a new headline, it's really meaty stuff.
post #5 of 84

I had not expected that Apple would give away iWork. Guess they're not getting enough traction on selling it. I see it in iCloud and haven't given it much of a spin yet. But it makes sense. Now is a good opportunity to take advantage of Microsoft's lumbering steps into the tablet world that already exists. It just showcases how far ahead the iOS ecosystem remains.

Microsoft Office isn't dominant because it's the best. It's because they're great at licensing and catering to the communities of developers, instructors and IT support staff. </soapbox>

post #6 of 84
I can believe a bigger, more powerful iPad is coming, but don't believe it'll be convertible.
post #7 of 84

but, but, but 64 bit is a gimmick!

 

s/

 

I'd be all over a 13 inch iPad.

iPadmini is too small for me (I'll rather use my phone as a portable device)

iPad is nice but I'd love more power and a bigger screen.  Basically its taking the place of my laptop.

post #8 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I can believe a bigger, more powerful iPad is coming, but don't believe it'll be convertible.

 

They already exist. 

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20091329-243/keyboarding-your-ipad-best-keyboard-cases/

post #9 of 84
2014 MacBook Air: quad-core A8, no Intel Tax (r).

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #10 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

2014 MacBook Air: quad-core A8, no Intel Tax (r).

Not a chance.

Apple will not release a product that is dramatically slower than its predecessor. An iPad convertible (what I've been calling an 'Ipad Pro' for the year or more that I've been talking about it) would not be a replacement for the MBA, but would rather be an extension of the iPad line. Although some people might buy it instead of the MBA, it wouldn't be marketed as an MBA.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #11 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

2014 MacBook Air: quad-core A8, no Intel Tax (r).

You think being the best Semiconductor Manufacturer in the world is cheap?

post #12 of 84

I'll take a 13" - 15" iPad with the ability to doc to a larger display. 

post #13 of 84
Do Wall Street just hire some fail wannabe writers to do this kind of "job"? Seriously.

Let's look around your office. You must have one person like this there. They come around to your desk, then poke around your screen. And you really want to chop their finger off right there. Steve said long time ago. A touch device is for touch. A laptop is a laptop. This is why you don't see Apple laptop screen can be touch. I sure as he'll don't want to touch my MBA screen.

And anyone remember that Dell , a tablet + net book thingy? Or is it not quite a tablet, not quite a laptop , and sure it's kinda like a net book thing? I seen one person said that was amazing. He works at support and he no longer has a job ....
post #14 of 84

More dreaming from analysts.

 

Apple may very well be looking at greater than 9.7 inch form factors. Doesn't mean they are coming out with one in the immediate future.

Also a 64 bit iOS doesn't mean that Apple is looking at convertibles.

 

Apple's ultimate goal is probably to merge iOS and OSX sometime in the future.

Intel's more effcient Haswell architecture and ARM's 64 bit mobile architecture is a step in that direction. Doesn't mean however that such a move is coming in 2013 or 2014.

 

Don't hold your collective breathing analysts. Or on second thought, do hold it. Maybe we'll be getting less of this dog pooh being passed on as professional analysis in the future.

post #15 of 84
ANALyst
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #16 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post
 

 

They already exist. 

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20091329-243/keyboarding-your-ipad-best-keyboard-cases/

 

A 13" iPad could be matched with a proper keyboard size.


Edited by jonshf - 10/8/13 at 1:36pm
post #17 of 84
Mac OS running on A-chip is now quite possible, will it, that's your guess?
post #18 of 84
Unless, they are preparing to take out the screen from the mac book air and add a retina screen where the keyboard is. The technology and resources are there. And since the rumors of the bigger power brick, could happen. At least for me is.

A6X can handle adobe applications with the apps that are around the app store.

Since the A7 is 64 bit environment, memory can be added aside, or have a fan to cool it off.

These is my humble point of view.
post #19 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

but, but, but 64 bit is a gimmick!

 

s/

 

I'd be all over a 13 inch iPad.

iPadmini is too small for me (I'll rather use my phone as a portable device)

iPad is nice but I'd love more power and a bigger screen.  Basically its taking the place of my laptop.

 

almost almost almost agree.

 

The question will always be how much SSD will they put in an iPad.   It has to be over 128GB for me to forgo the laptop (I have a lot of standard content that I need to include in my work, and most of my work requires disconnection from the outside world).  64GB isn't quite enough for the work I do, and I'm not sure the touch UI as primary works in my primary content creation mode.  I could be wrong… but it's the old 'how to accelerate creating tables and multi-depth outlines' that I tend to love a nice 'tabbed' UI (as in, Tabbing sets the nesting level… old Pascal programmer;-)

 

But 13" retina… under 2 lbs, and a 24 hours battery… I'd like that, and carry a bluetooth keyboard.

post #20 of 84
This makes a lot of sense and something like this could possibly explain the real reason why Apple pursued going to a 64 bit architecture rather than simply increasing the core count and/or clock frequency. Although, I wouldn't preclude either in an upcoming 'A8' if used in a laptop-like device.

We're already seeing the A7 roughly at parity with BayTrail, so this seems a smart move on Apples' part. Who would have believed a few years ago that Apple would be rivaling Intel in SOC design? If the whole phone/tablet thing doesn't work out for Apple in the future, I think they've got a shot at being the next Intel 1wink.gif

To the two above who mentioned the Gimmick quote from Qualcomm, I just shake my head. You do understand that this article is talking about putting a 64 bit processor in a device with > 4GB of RAM?
Edited by JamesMac - 10/8/13 at 1:49pm
post #21 of 84

Come on people!!  All the professional fandroids blogging from their rent-free offices/bedrooms/dining rooms in their parents' basements all say that the 64-bit path Apple is taking is just a gimmick!  Consumers won't notice a difference and doesn't need 64-bit in mobile devices!!

I mean they have to know what they're talking about right?  Considering how well-fed they are thanks to mommy bringing down meals and opening the occasional 1/2-height basement window to let air circulate and allow for 20 minutes of sunlight, their brains are surely being put to use down there to tell all of us sheep that they know better right?

I'm still deciding whether this needs a sarcasm tag, but I fear there is a lot of truth to it though.. :/

Apple is establishing the framework for something big.  But fear not, after they do it... the Samsungs of the world, and the shameless fandroid sheep will suddenly say that it was a natural progression for them to copy... uhm... "innovate" the same way.

Oh... and slap some faux-gold plating on their plastic devices too... 

post #22 of 84

Jajaja,  True statement. 

 

Apple is cooking something big.  And I have my popcorn and soda ready for that.

 

From the hiring of the power saver team, to other areas.

 

these is not a odd coincidence.

post #23 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Please keep us posted of every single analyst speculation, with a new headline, it's really meaty stuff.

Especially considering that the idea has been speculated about in the various forums for months now. You can see pretty clearly that the thoughts expressed by the analyst aren't original to him. I have to wonder if these guys admit to what they do for a living when out socializing, if they do it has to lead to some serious hazing.
post #24 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

but, but, but 64 bit is a gimmick!

s/

I'd be all over a 13 inch iPad.
iPadmini is too small for me (I'll rather use my phone as a portable device)
iPad is nice but I'd love more power and a bigger screen.  Basically its taking the place of my laptop.

So basically Microsoft was right - hybrids are the future!
post #25 of 84
To keep things in perspective : " [...] one analyst has speculated." : )
post #26 of 84

Yep!!! but that cost MS a looooot of $$$$$ loses to make that point.

post #27 of 84

A larger 13" iPad would be cool, I have no objections against that, but screw the notebook part. Leave it as an iPad, large and super thin, with an even bigger screen! I think that there is definitely a market of people who would be interested in a larger iPad, and who would be willing to pay for such an iPad. 

 

If people want lame, failed, frankenstein contraptions, like the Surface tablets, then go buy one of those. I hope that Apple doesn't make any so-called convertibles or hybrid messes. Those already exist, and why should Apple make such a failed and terrible item?

 

If you want a laptop, go buy a Macbook Pro or Macbook Air.

 

These clueless analysts should just STFU. Apple is doing just fine without their braindead ideas and dumb predictions. A hybrid piece of junk? Forget it, Apple has better things to do with their time.

post #28 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The decision to move the A7 processor and iOS 7 to a 64-bit architecture may signal the beginning of a strategy for Apple to build a 13-inch, notebook-style iPad, one analyst has speculated.
 
iPad Space Gray
A purported rear casing for Apple's next-generation iPad 5 | Source: Sonny Dickson


In a note to investors on Tuesday, Ben A. Reitzes of Barclays Capital argued Apple may be in the early stages of preparing the iOS ecosystem for a transition from handheld mobile devices to more powerful devices capable of replacing lower-end and ultraportable notebook computers, such as the company's successful MacBook Air. He believes a new product of this type could eventually supersede the 10-inch iPad and the iPad Mini as Apple's second-largest revenue driver behind the iPhone.

Reitzes suspects that the 64-bit A7 was released in this year's iPhone 5s in order to jumpstart development of 64-bit-optimized iOS apps that would one day be able to take advantage of more than 4 gigabytes of RAM ? a requirement, he argued, for a larger-screened convertible iPad. The iPhone 5s features only 1 gigabyte of RAM, though developers are already taking advantage of the A7's increased performance to enable advanced audio and video features not possible with the previous 32-bit A-series processors.Ben A. Reitzes believes Apple's push for a 64-bit iOS, coupled with making iWork free for new iPad purchases, could be signs of a future iOS-powered notebook.

Choosing to make iWork free with every new iOS device purchase is seen as another sign that Cupertino is preparing to insert the iPad wedge further into the fracturing notebook market. Microsoft's Office suite has been conspicuously absent from Apple's tablet since the iPad's debut ??though outgoing Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer revealed on Tuesday that may soon change ??and Reitzes thinks that iWork, as a free, Office-compatible replacement, will fill that gap.

Such a product is needed to offset Apple's recent reliance on iPhone revenue, which accounts for more than 50 percent of Cupertino's trailing 12 month income, Reitzes said. Even if a 13-inch iPad were to cannibalize Mac sales ??unit sales of which have declined 7 percent year over year ? he believes that would be worth it for Apple, as the product could take 25 to 30 percent of the larger notebook market.

A new 13-inch convertible iPad could mean significant revenue increases for Apple as well, according to the analysis. Reitzes pegs the product's average sale price at "about $650" with 35 percent margins, calculating that every 10 million units sold would add approximately $2 to Apple's earnings per share. Apple sold 14.6 million iPads and 3.8 million Macs during the third quarter of 2013.

Supply chain rumblings support the possibility of a larger, convertible iPad or an iOS-based notebook, as reports out of China recently indicated that Apple may be working with longtime manufacturing partner Quanta Computer on a 12-inch version of the iPad.

 

Yup.  13 inch iPad 'laptop.'  With 'Keyboard.'

 

Will sell more than Macs total each quarter.

 

The iPad just needs a bigger screen.  A keyboard.  Done.  It can share the retina screen with the Air.  And Low end Mac Book Pro.

 

How much?  £699?  £499?  £599?  It would just hammer and scoop up low end PC laptop sales.  Could be an insane profit generator.

 

The Mac market reforged as iOS.  Selling millions more than the Mac ever could.  It's still a Mac though... :P

 

Perception and all that...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #29 of 84

Be insane for edu' sales too.

 

Put the squeeze on those cheap ass Samsung laptops too.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #30 of 84
Analyst Speculation! LOL!

I speculate that the new Mac Pro 2013 is going to come with 6 "A7" processors instead of the 12 Core Ivy Bridge E Xeon processor and that the 6 "A7" processors actually outperform the Ivy Bridge processor by a factor of 2!
post #31 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

A larger 13" iPad would be cool, I have no objections against that, but screw the notebook part. Leave it as an iPad, large and super thin, with an even bigger screen! I think that there is definitely a market of people who would be interested in a larger iPad, and who would be willing to pay for such an iPad. 

 

If people want lame, failed, frankenstein contraptions, like the Surface tablets, then go buy one of those. I hope that Apple doesn't make any so-called convertibles or hybrid messes. Those already exist, and why should Apple make such a failed and terrible item?

 

If you want a laptop, go buy a Macbook Pro or Macbook Air.

 

These clueless analysts should just STFU. Apple is doing just fine without their braindead ideas and dumb predictions. A hybrid piece of junk? Forget it, Apple has better things to do with their time.

 

Agree!!!

 

But beside some application that normal people do, and taking in consideration the Air as a work force item and these model can do heavy programs that Macbook Pro can handle.

 

The Ipad can do all those things if the apps are available. From office " MSO 360" and now, iWork's is there. So..... iPad A7 can do that and more!!!!!!  

post #32 of 84
It's needs to be light! I don't know, but I smell the nauseating age of beige. You know when there were too many Apple computers with too many model numbers that had no association with it's capability. Ha! I'm getting old.
post #33 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

ANALyst

 

only if you mean 'pull it out your @ss' 'anal'yst.  Anyone speculating on Apple's 'next size iPad' based on chip architecture is seriously high on something.  Moreso if you're listening.

 

the next iPad will exist then screen energy costs/battery capacity/weight  falls into an optimal envelope ('holding it between thumb and 2 fingers' optimal).  That's the usage metaphor of the iPad.  CPU performance means little… CPU power efficiency X Battery Amps/Lb is the key factor.

 

In other words, the battery has to improve by almost 2X more power/lb, as a 13" will nearly 2X more Screen to light up, and effective lever force will increase by 20% if the weight (and distribution) stays the same.    Even the current 10" seems heavy in the 'pinch grip.'

 

Without battery Amp/lb improvement, my rough estimate (assuming that the 1/2 the weight is battery and you can get 30% more glass for 'free' [no add'l weight) is that it would take 72% more effort.. to hold it horizontal (parallel to the floor) if you held one edge.  

 

People won't tolerate a iPad that is 'almost' twice 'as hard' to hold.  At any size.

 

If you are setting it down on the table  (or in a stand) and 'typing' the laptop is still the correct device for you.  


Edited by TheOtherGeoff - 10/8/13 at 2:08pm
post #34 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

This makes a lot of sense and something like this could possibly explain the real reason why Apple pursued going to a 64 bit architecture rather than simply increasing the core count and/or clock frequency.
Not really. Apple went the route they did because it gives them good enough performance in the iPhone. More cores would almost certainly be needed in a larger tablet or convertible.
Quote:
Although, I wouldn't preclude either in an upcoming 'A8' if used in a laptop-like device.
It will be interesting see A8 and to see if they can get it out the door in 2014.
Quote:
We're already seeing the A7 roughly at parity with BayTrail, so this seems a smart move on Apples' part. Who would have believed a few years ago that Apple would be rivaling Intel in SOC design?
Actually I would. If you have an understanding of what the people at PA Semi and Intrinsity accomplished before Apple bought them and also considered some of the patents Apples own engineers have filed then it was almost a given. They literally have a low power dream team.
Quote:
If the whole phone/tablet thing doesn't work out for Apple in the future, I think they've got a shot at being the next Intel 1wink.gif
An interesting thought that is for sure. The tablet / phone thing though is working out OS we don't have to worry about that.
Quote:
To the two above who mentioned the Gimmick quote from Qualcomm, I just shake my head. You do understand that this article is talking about putting a 64 bit processor in a device with > 4GB of RAM?
That whole thing is BS anyways. Apple has gained significantly just because of the 64 bit support in the chip. The competition doesn't want to admit this though.
post #35 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A larger 13" iPad would be cool, I have no objections against that, but screw the notebook part. Leave it as an iPad, large and super thin, with an even bigger screen! I think that there is definitely a market of people who would be interested in a larger iPad, and who would be willing to pay for such an iPad. 
Very true.
Quote:
If people want lame, failed, frankenstein contraptions, like the Surface tablets, then go buy one of those. I hope that Apple doesn't make any so-called convertibles or hybrid messes. Those already exist, and why should Apple make such a failed and terrible item?
Maybe they can do better? For example look at what MBA is compared to a netbook.
Quote:
If you want a laptop, go buy a Macbook Pro or Macbook Air.
Sure if you need such. However I would not dismiss an ARM based laptop if (this is a big if) it ran a Mac OS as open as the current Mac OS. In other words I want shell access, file system access and everything else that goes with UNIX. Really this could be an extremely nice on the go laptop. Note I said laptop here not tablet or convertible.
Quote:
These clueless analysts should just STFU. Apple is doing just fine without their braindead ideas and dumb predictions. A hybrid piece of junk? Forget it, Apple has better things to do with their time.

I don't think there are enough snakes in the world to stuff their mouths with. Even so stuffing a snake in an analyst mouth would be like having him eat a brother or other family member.
post #36 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Not really. Apple went the route they did because it gives them good enough performance in the iPhone. More cores would almost certainly be needed in a larger tablet or convertible.
It will be interesting see A8 and to see if they can get it out the door in 2014.
Actually I would. If you have an understanding of what the people at PA Semi and Intrinsity accomplished before Apple bought them and also considered some of the patents Apples own engineers have filed then it was almost a given. They literally have a low power dream team.
An interesting thought that is for sure. The tablet / phone thing though is working out OS we don't have to worry about that.
That whole thing is BS anyways. Apple has gained significantly just because of the 64 bit support in the chip. The competition doesn't want to admit this though.

 

Not sure you followed me.  I'm suggesting that it would have been easier for Apple to increase clock speed and/or the number of cores on the A6X without the major upgrade to 64 bit.    However, if this SOC is intended for uses on other devices with greater processing AND RAM requirements, then this would explain why Apple chose the more complex path.  

 

I don't know much about PA Semi and Intrinsity, just remember reading some high level announcement when they were bought by Apple.  Didn't realise they were that good!


Edited by JamesMac - 10/8/13 at 2:31pm
post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosDeBernard View Post

Yep!!! but that cost MS a looooot of $$$$$ loses to make that point.

Only shareholders care about profit or loss.
post #38 of 84
Ridiculous to speculate that Apple wants to produce what's basically a Surface.
Edited by pazuzu - 10/8/13 at 2:35pm
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

Ridiculous to speculate that Apple want to produce what's basically a Surface.

Why?
post #40 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by WP7Mango View Post

Why?

Because it likes sucks and no one wants it???
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
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