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Mac shipments continue to shrink as Apple loses ground in US PC market - Page 2

post #41 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

The 2013 iMac isn't worth the upgrade from the 2010 iMac?  a couple of processor revs better, faster memory, faster SSD/Fusion drives, 802.11ac, better GPU.  Jeez, what more do you want?  Retina?  come on, that's not cost effective at this point in time.  Who has a higher resolution 27inch monitor on the market?  I haven't seen any that I'm aware of.

I never said that 2010 to 2013 wasn't significant. 2010 to 2011 was solid. 2011 to 2012 even with a slight price increase was worth it and was huge. 2012 to 2013 was the weakest refresh in the last decade for the iMac. I almost but at the 2012, but waited to see what the 2013 offered. What did it offer. Nothing different. AC, Pcei, and a processor that gave zero performance gains. Sorry- that's awful.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #42 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio 
Apple keeps their stuff expensive, and people buy less of them.

Utter tripe and you know it.

These are the same people that say that the only reason Apple is so profitable is that they overcharge for their products. No matter what Apple accomplishes they try to find a way to make them look bad.
post #43 of 275

I'm not buying the hype that we're in a Post PC era.   Mobile is certainly strong but 

I'd be loath to give up my MBA and iMac 27 to move to iPhone/iPad only I loathe that thought. 

 

Next Mac up with be a Haswell Mac mini and then I'm hoping to to replace my MBA and my gf MBP 

with rMBP next spring. 

 

As always Apple has models coming in the wings and the Mac cognoscenti know to wait. 

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #44 of 275
Ignore me then Troll. I have an opinion as to why sales have fallen. Don't like it then post something that has a little thought an intelligence.
post #45 of 275
Who cares. Apples still making more money than these companies combined! Money buys talent, talent innovates, apple remains ahead. It's quite simple really
post #46 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


Were do these people come from? The aliens from the Pacific Rim are more relatable.

Why don't you just ignore me troll.  I have an opinion about why I think iMac sales might be taking a hit.  I takes a little intelligence to write more than two sentences without trying to insult someone.  Did you use a dictionary to spell any of those words?

post #47 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdninja View Post
 

Why don't you just ignore me troll.  I have an opinion about why I think iMac sales might be taking a hit.  I takes a little intelligence to write more than two sentences without trying to insult someone.  Did you use a dictionary to spell any of those words?*It

*It

post #48 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechProd1gy View Post

This needs to show a relation to tablet sales. Many are replacing PC's with iPads. How does this all shape up with iPads factored in...I would be curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

If you aren't tracking tablets, then you shouldn't track the home PC market at all, IMHO. Many households used to use a PC for web, email, facebook, twitter, games, and photos. These can all be done on a tablet or smartphone now. I wouldn't be surprised to see many young adults forgo a PC altogether now, if not replacing one far less often than they used to.

Exactly. Many people used a computer because there was no alternative. But for those who primarily surf the web, do email, use social media sites, watch video, manage photographs and use simple apps, a Pad does everything they need.

Pads and computers should be counted together.

Going forward, traditional form factor computers will be used primarily by those doing complex work, those who are working on long documents and need a quality physical keyboard and content creators.
post #49 of 275

Well, I'll do my part.  I am about to buy the wife a new MBA 13" model....  

 

She noted how much easier it would be to sync here new iPhone and IPad if she only had a MacBook instead of her Sony Laptop...

 

(She is a member of the World's most Spoiled Wife's Club)

 

Of Course I am a member in the "Happy Wife Happy Life Club"...

post #50 of 275

Wow.

 

"Sigh" indeed, Wierdninja.

 

Sorry you are having such a bad time with Apple these days, hope you have a better experience with all the Android and Windows product offerings.

post #51 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Whoop de fricking frick. Stay in the naughties, then.

 

Also everything from every other port available, yeah.

 

Are you a gorilla or a moron?

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

How?

 

Enjoy your Schmidt.

 

“huge”… “27”” for “gaming”? Are you sure you know what you’re talking about?

 

Sure they do.

 

Yes, you’re part of the group of people who want to hold on to archaic technology and claim it’s the future. If we’re shortsighted, never sign me up for LASIK.

 

Thanks for the incorrect and terrible segue.

 

“Throw yourself in next time and rid us of your stupidity.”

 

 

Utter tripe and you know it.

I think my IQ dropped about 20 points reading your response.  Not one response was worth my time to read.  Grow up.

post #52 of 275

More analysts spewing garbage.

If anything, the real news here should be that pre built PC's increased in sales at all from anyone considering just how much we hear about them dropping every quarter.

post #53 of 275
Let's be honest if you buy a MBP there is no need to buy for at least 3 years minimum. My MBP 17" mid 2010 i7 with 8g ram runs perfectly fine with photoshop cc, illustrator cc, chrome, and spotify open at all times. Computers are at a point that unless you're running high end 3d programs, video work, or games there is no reason to upgrade unless you just want to.
post #54 of 275

Hey Weirdninja:

 

Don't worry too much about Tallest Skill - she likes to blather on.

 

Your stream of consciousness post has some good and bad points, but probably the main issue here is that no technical company can fulfill all their target market's individual needs all the time.

 

Apple is doing quite well in addressing their core market.  Microsoft/Windows - not so much.

 

Do whatever you have to do - "whatever floats your boat" ;-)

post #55 of 275

Maybe if they'd released the darn MBP refresh instead of artificially holding it back for the sake of Mavericks, their numbers wouldn't be down.

 

I know, right? Rocket science.

post #56 of 275

Well guess the post PC era is actually the post Mac era... you know it was bad when Apple could not even make a decent monitor.

 

The dumbing down of Apple by iOS is almost done, now they can go sell cAndy colored plastic phones... what a fiasco.

post #57 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
 

Tallest Skil.

 

Just die

 

Please

 

Posts like yours are why we can't have nice things

Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post
 

Well guess the post PC era is actually the post Mac era... you know it was bad when Apple could not even make a decent monitor.

 

The dumbing down of Apple by iOS is almost done, now they can go sell cAndy colored plastic phones... what a fiasco.

Wat. Apple's Monitors are among the best offered anywhere with few exceptions.

post #58 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Whoop de fricking frick. Stay in the naughties, then.

Blu-ray came out in 2006.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #59 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Twice yearly? You serious?

I can't wait to buy an iMac to replace my G5. Yes I still use a G5. Unfortunately I need to buy a car first.

How is your decision to replace a machine related to how often Apple should refresh their product?

post #60 of 275
Originally Posted by wierdninja View Post
I have an opinion as to why sales have fallen.

 

That’s fine. Your opinion is wrong. You are being alerted to that fact.

 
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Blu-ray came out in 2006.

 

Which was a year in the decade known as the… *gestures for you to continue* (Where’s the anticipation emoji? This’ll have to do) 😯

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #61 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Blu-ray came out in 2006.

Which was a year in the decade known as the… *gestures for you to continue*

Intel G5 outside!
post #62 of 275

There are many factors, some very good ones already discussed in this thread, but I think that the largest reason is this:

 

The vast majority of desktop PC users don't want to spend $1300 (and up) to do web/FB/pay bills/email/photo editing.  If Apple wanted to increase market share of PCs, they'd have to package and market a sub $700 PC setup.  Apples grabs some of that market thru $600 mac mini.

 

Apple already does very well in laptop PC market, so there's not too much to gain/improve in that market.

 

For some reason, people around the world care deeply about the quality of their mobile phones, ipads, & laptops...care enough to pay "premium" for quality... but could give a crap about what sits on/under their desk.

post #63 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


What do you expect them to update it with every 6 months? Intel's tick-tock cycle isn't that often and there aren't nearly enough changes to the rest of the industry for the components they provide to make that viable.

BY your logic the iPhone should be updated every month to keep ahead of other OEM releases.

Given Apple would never lower the price I would at least expect the CPU speed to be increased to justify the cost. For a machine which first launched at a relatively competitive price, now 10 months down the road just looks uncompetitive.

 

If Haswell hasn't been available at the price point or quantities that Apple wants up until this point then they should have refreshed the MBP a few months ago with 802.11ac, PCIe SSD and a clock speed increase. Then introduce Haswell when available. That way whenever a customer wishes to purchase a new machine they are getting an up to date machine. At the moment if somebody purchases a MBP they are getting a year out of date machine.

post #64 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post

Given Apple would never lower the price I would at least expect the CPU speed to be increased to justify the cost. For a machine which first launched at a relatively competitive price, now 10 months down the road just looks uncompetitive.

If Haswell hasn't been available at the price point or quantities that Apple wants up until this point then they should have refreshed the MBP a few months ago with 802.11ac, PCIe SSD and a clock speed increase. Then introduce Haswell when available. That way whenever a customer wishes to purchase a new machine they are getting an up to date machine. At the moment if somebody purchases a MBP they are getting a year out of date machine.

Show me this scale where Inrel lowers price points on their every month, two months, season or bi-annually like clockwork that would allow Apple to do incremental speedbumps at a rate that is much higher than any other OEM for a given model?
post #65 of 275
Show me a Retina MBA and I'll upgrade, until then there just hasn't been a compelling reason to replace the (fantastic) 2011 MBA 11 I already have. The updates have been incremental - a 4x screen resolution increase will be huge though.

I also have a 2011 Mac Pro with 12 (2x6) cores - and I'm not sure the new Mac Pro will be the killer upgrade over that that I would hope for. Maybe, but it's really not clear. I do like the new form factor, but I also have all of my drive bays full, have upgraded my video card, and added an eSATA card, which is what a 'pro' machine theoretically is supposed to offer. (And I blame Intel for the flatlining Pro hardware - they keep jacking up the Xeon prices to where the machines just don't make sense... Until Apple releases a 64-core A8 box and can finally bypass them?)

So hardly doomed, but I think without major updates it's pretty hard to get people to move off of machines that Apple already made so damned good.
post #66 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

Show me a Retina MBA and I'll upgrade, until then there just hasn't been a compelling reason to replace the (fantastic) 2011 MBA 11 I already have. The updates have been incremental - a 4x screen resolution increase will be huge though.

I also have a 2011 Mac Pro with 12 (2x6) cores - and I'm not sure the new Mac Pro will be the killer upgrade over that that I would hope for. Maybe, but it's really not clear. I do like the new form factor, but I also have all of my drive bays full, have upgraded my video card, and added an eSATA card, which is what a 'pro' machine theoretically is supposed to offer. (And I blame Intel for the flatlining Pro hardware - they keep jacking up the Xeon prices to where the machines just don't make sense... Until Apple releases a 64-core A8 box and can finally bypass them?)

So hardly doomed, but I think without major updates it's pretty hard to get people to move off of machines that Apple already made so damned good.

This year, only a year after the MBP went Retina, seemed pretty slim. I hope it happens on the next refresh but there are some technical arguments that can be made against it that it wouldn't make me overly surprised if it didn't happen.
post #67 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

There are a couple other reasons why Apple's Share is shrinking

 

1) Win8... to run win8 most people buy new PCs... it's usually the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade.

2) OSX Lion/Mavericks.... to run the latest version of Mac's OS most people... upgrade their current device to the current OS on their current machine.

 

3) Average useful lifespan of an Mac product is arguably 1.5-2X the length of a PC product (ARGUABLY - Mac laptops are typically more sturdy, and with a greater percentage having no spinning disk, this makes them more reliable, and with less spamware (not no, but less), they degrade over time a bit better than your XP/SP2 or Win7 system.

 

Is Windows 8 really driving sales?

Anyone who can use Windows 95-XP can use Windows 7, but Windows 8 requires learning a new UI and dealing with the fact that some apps use the new Metro UI while others continue to have the traditional Windows UI. There isn't an organization on earth that wants to waste time and money re-training staff to perform tasks they already know how to do.

 

If Gartner and IDC exclude iPads, but do include Chrome based hardware in their counts that could help account for both the drop in Mac sales and rise in PC sales. Instead of replacing the family computer, it's now possible to spend roughly the same amount of money and get a Chrome based product for every member of the family. I know people who've done just that, but I won't let Google get their talons into my kids until they're old enough to make that decision for themselves.

post #68 of 275
Originally Posted by Sumergo View Post

I've asked before and I'll ask again.  Are you a real person or just some click-wanker pseudo-personality offered by AI to instigate comment on this forum?

 

ERROR#12:0x0EF493A¨¨¨ˆÏˆ¨ot relevant to the discussion.”}else(is_human_report == 14){“Bot? What’s a bot? I’m not a bot.”; winkemoji();}

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #69 of 275
Apple needs to reduce prices on the MBP just to increase market share and stay relevant.
post #70 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple needs to reduce prices on the MBP just to increase market share and stay relevant.


NOPE.png

post #71 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple needs to reduce prices on the MBP just to increase market share and stay relevant.

I think you'll have better luck emailing Tim this news, instead of posting here. Unless of course, you don't want to be relevant here.
post #72 of 275
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post
Apple needs to reduce prices on the MBP just to increase market share and stay relevant.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #73 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

My experience with the estimates by both Gartner and IDC are that they consistently underestimate Apple's shipments across the board. I remember early this year, both said that the Mac's marketshare in the US was going up, but one said that Mac sales would drop about 6.5% and the other said 9% (I forget which said what), while PC sales would drop 11%.

Actually, that quarter Mac shipments rose 1%. That's a large error, and they repeat it almost every time.

The Software Publishers Association used to be experts at this:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990427063057/http://www.dol.net/%7ERagosta/spa.htm
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #74 of 275

I been saying this since the retina MBP came out.   The pricing of the system is WAY too high.  Combine that with the fact that the system is completely unserviceable for a user (i.e., upgrade memory or ssd) and the fact that the warranty is only 1YR without Applecare (3YR with Applecare) and you have an unaffordable product for many consumers.   There is not a large customer base for $3K laptops that are out of warranty in 1-3 years and the product is unrepairable except through Apple pricing (outrageous).

 

PROPRIETARY = FAIL     -  Apple should know this.  It held them back for decades.

 

If Apple discontinues the cMBP, they are pretty much giving up on the PC market.

post #75 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post

 

PROPRIETARY = FAIL     -  Apple should know this.  It held them back for decades.

 

If being the most powerful company in the world is being held back...then what the hell does that make every other company?

post #76 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

My experience with the estimates by both Gartner and IDC are that they consistently underestimate Apple's shipments across the board. I remember early this year, both said that the Mac's marketshare in the US was going up, but one said that Mac sales would drop about 6.5% and the other said 9% (I forget which said what), while PC sales would drop 11%.

Actually, that quarter Mac shipments rose 1%. That's a large error, and they repeat it almost every time.

That's no guarantee it will be wrong again, but it will be interesting to see what Apple says.

Of course, Apple did just update the iMac. And despite a few people here dissing it, they've gotten pretty good reviews. We have to remember that Haswell has little performance advantage over Ivy bridge. The major improvement is in power usage.

As for the lack of an optical drive, well, I can just say that I rarely use one. My daughter hardly uses one, and my wife hardly uses one. Polling friends, most hardly use one. That doesn't mean that everyone hardly uses one, but it does mean that if you really do want one, you can get on and out it on your desk. A wonderful solution? Maybe not for some, but pretty fine.

I agree, and isn't it funny how they always do quarterly studies instead of YoY, and amazingly they (IDC and Gartner) always pick Apples slowest quarter at the time right before the new product launches?  Lol coincidence, I think not.  We are like a week out of the new iMac updates so they won't factor either. The updates to the Airs have not really been out that long either.

 

You can always count on especially  IDC for the lowest Apple estimates.  When they did tablets a while back the idiot that did the supposed survey made up his new way to count by adding in "white box" tablets to push apples numbers further down.

I would expect no less from these two very disreputable firms.

post #77 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post
 

If being the most powerful company in the world is being held back...then what the hell does that make every other company?

In a race to the bottom.:lol:

post #78 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


Show me this scale where Inrel lowers price points on their every month, two months, season or bi-annually like clockwork that would allow Apple to do incremental speedbumps at a rate that is much higher than any other OEM for a given model?

Intel does decrease prices from time to time as yields improve, but you're right that all OEMs have access to those price adjustments.

 

Apple issued speed bumps earlier this year to the MacBook Pro from 2.3GHz to 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz to 2.7GHz when Intel made the faster chips available at the same price that the slower ones had previously been. It's safe to assume that Apple did this because MacBook Pro customers are important to them.

 

Today the 2.6GHz i7-3720QM and 2.7GHz i7-3740QM both cost exactly the same amount and that price is identical to what customers previously paid for the 2.3GHz 3610QM yet the Mac mini continues to carry the older, slower CPU. It's safe to assume that Apple doesn't worry about giving Mac mini customers the best possible bang for their buck.

 

The 3610QM no longer appears on the Intel price list so it's not known whether customers with long term supply agreements for the older chip are getting a discount or not.

 

FYI the Core i7 4800MQ is priced identically to the 3740QM so it's pretty safe to assume that it will be the CPU in the late 2013 Retina MacBook Pro.

post #79 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Intel does decrease prices from time to time as yields improve, but you're right that all OEMs have access to those price adjustments.

The previous suggestion implied that if Intel drops the price by a few dollars Apple should do so as well. This ignores Apple's pricing structure would then have to be reset for new Macs when new chips are inserted, usually at the same price point for the chip, and that Apple buys in bulk which makes the whole notion of what a vendor does at one point forcing a customer to alter their prices immediately pretty silly. These aren't gas prices where it's based on futures (and wouldn't it be horrible if it was set up that way?).

We also can't be so shortsighted as to think that Apple prices a machine for what it costs that day coming out of the factory. Apple, like any successful company, uses many metrics to figure out a price point. Let's say that zero days sales of the MBP have component costs that are 25% more than at the end of the production cycle for that machine. That's fine, because at the end of the cycle they probably aren't selling as much so the cost for production could actually go up per unit, and, most importantly, Apple has figured in the total cost for producing that model for it's lifecycle when figuring out the price. If ones wants to pay less at the end of the cycle then one might as well slap extra cost to the start of the cycle.
Quote:
Today the 2.6GHz i7-3720QM and 2.7GHz i7-3740QM both cost exactly the same amount and that price is identical to what customers previously paid for the 2.3GHz 3610QM yet the Mac mini continues to carry the older, slower CPU. It's safe to assume that Apple doesn't worry about giving Mac mini customers the best possible bang for their buck.

This is something I'd like to see, but making the next Mac mini about the footprint of the current AirPort Extreme could work. Not as tell as it doesn't need to support a 3.5" HDD, but it could support one or two 2.5" HDDs for the server model. These could be laid sideways (which would be length longways as the width of a 3.5" drive). I think using less desk space is a good thing here, plus you want to limit things being placed atop it.

Of course, Apple seems to be moving away from HDDs so the next Mac Mini would probably only have a PCIe SSD with a couple TB2 ports for external storage.
Edited by akqies - 10/9/13 at 6:35pm
post #80 of 275
Windows 8 is garbage, Apple has nothing to worry about
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