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How Apple's iPhone rapidly destroyed Nokia's world leading Symbian platform

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 

In 2008, a journalist in Finland wrote a letter to Nokia complaining that its smartphones were difficult to use, prompting a confidential response acknowledging desperate efforts to catch up with Apple's new iPhone. One year later Nokia announced MeeGo, and the following year it made plans to shift to Windows Phone. The company is now being sold off for scrap.

 



In August 2008, Helsingin Sanomat journalist Lauri Malkavaara wrote the company saying that while Nokia had established itself as a maker of easy to use phones, its latest models were confusing and frustrating.

Malkavaara described the Symbian-based Nokia E51 as being the third cellular phone he had ever owned. But unlike earlier cellphones from Nokia that "were very easy to use" and "no manuals were needed," the latest model lacked either quality.
 

Apple's iPhone quickly killed Nokia’s Symbian



"I have wondered about it for a week now," Malkavaara wrote of the E51's Symbian interface. "At first I did not even know how to call with it without the manual, and I still do not understand very much of it." He then issued Nokia a grave warning about its ability to compete with Apple's new products.

"The problem is," he stated, "that half a year ago a friend of mine at work showed me a device manufactured by Apple called the iPod Touch. I fell in love instantly. I wanted an iPod, and with that device I could also have convenient access to the internet and much more.

"I ordered my own iPod touch, turned it on, and knew immediately how to use it. I have used the device now on a daily basis for over six months, and I have not even thought about any manuals. The logic of the device opens up right away. It is no wonder that it is a huge success all over the world."
 

iPod touch



He then described the inscrutable difficulty of navigating menus on Nokia's Symbian phones to try to figure out how to accomplish the most basic of tasks, from setting a ringtone to sending a text message.

Malkavaara concluded, "By putting a telephone like the E51 onto the market, Nokia has squandered its most important legacies: to produce telephones in such a way that they are easy to use. This will cause problems for Nokia."

In response, he stated that Nokia promptly followed up the next day, noting that "Nokia bosses started calling me, wanting to explain Nokia's strategy."

He explained that he wasn't interested in reporting on on Nokia's strategy, but had simply intended the feedback as something for the company to consider internally. One "unyielding" executive, he wrote, pushed to have a conversation about the subject, resulting in plans to meet and discuss the matter.

After growing agitated with the executive's efforts to explain that different people "need different kinds of telephones," Malkavaara replied, “the kind of person who wants to use a bad telephone does not exist."
 

Nokia knew Symbian was not competitive



In confidence the executive then relented and explained that the company was fully aware of the problem, apologizing that that Nokia had produced a bad telephone experience. He then described a top secret project within Nokia to develop a new operating system intended to support new kinds of phones that would be easy to use.

Nokia had been closely following Apple's 2007 launch of the iPhone, and had expedited "a large number of iPhones to Nokia's head office in Espoo" by courier at its release. The executive described taking one home and presenting it to his four year old daughter, who "learned to use it immediately."

The executive noted he "knew Nokia was in trouble" when the young girl asked him that evening, "can I take that magic telephone and put it under my pillow tonight?"
 

iPhone destroys BlackBerry, Android can't match value



One month later, in September 2008, Canalys published data showing that Symbian's growth had stalled at the launch of Apple's second generation iPhone 3G, before Android had even shipped on a production phone.
 



Android wouldn't become popular for another year, during which the parallel collapse of Blackberry at Verizon Wireless at the hands of Apple's iPhone prompted Verizon to abandon the Blackberry and instead back Android as an iPhone alternative through 2010.
 



By the end of 2010, weak sales of Android had also demonstrated that platform to be incapable of driving iPhone-like demand, prompting Verizon to partner with Apple on the iPad, followed by iPhone 4 early in 2011. Apple’s iPhone rapidly became Verizon’s top seller.
 

Nokia's MeeGo goes nowhere, followed by Windows Phone



Nokia's top secret new OS was MeeGo, a Linux project it took public in August 2009, a year after disclosing the strategy to Malkavaara. Nokia announced the new MeeGo as its plan for replacing Symbian.

The company subsequently struggled to finish MeeGo by the summer of 2010, when the OS initially shipped on Nokia's N900 netbook. It took more than another full year for Nokia to get MeeGo running on a smartphone, the N9, released in September 2011.

By that time, an increasingly desperate Nokia had partnered with Microsoft. Just five months after bringing on Stephen Elop as its chief executive in September 2010, the former Microsoft executive announced a new direction for the company based on Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 platform, thanks to billions Microsoft paid Nokia to adopt the struggling platform.

Elop effectively terminated future development of Nokia's own MeeGo project to focus on Windows Phone in an effort to stand out from other vendors' Android offerings.

However, after two and a half years of failing to gain traction with Windows Phone and watching its share of the market plummet from 23 percent to 15 percent, Nokia agreed to be acquired by Microsoft for $7.2 billion.
 

Explore more NOK Data at Wikinvest


Seven years earlier at the debut of Apple's iPhone, Nokia's market cap valued the company in excess of $116 billion, roughly equal to Apple itself. In 2000, before smartphones had gained any traction, Nokia had a peak valuation of $222 billion. Today, Apple's market capitalization is nearly $400 billion.

post #2 of 62
How the mighty have fallen. And that isn't just limited to Nokia.

It's not just that Apple came to market with a device way better than anything out there, they came out with a device that was so refined in its software it's actually weird that no other company has even tried to get this refinement into their software.

The HW I guess anyone can make, and I don't want to limit this to the manufacturers. But for crying out load, if you're going to copy the software as well, why oh why don't these companies do a better job?
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post #3 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

How the mighty have fallen. And that isn't just limited to Nokia.

It's not just that Apple came to market with a device way better than anything out there, they came out with a device that was so refined in its software it's actually weird that no other company has even tried to get this refinement into their software.

The HW I guess anyone can make, and I don't want to limit this to the manufacturers. But for crying out load, if you're going to copy the software as well, why oh why don't these companies do a better job?

I understand not being the leader, but failure to follow the obvious leader is unforgivable and it's going to lead to them becoming a shell of their former self.
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post #4 of 62
"The kind of person who wants to use a bad telephone does not exist."

Well that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?
post #5 of 62

To say that the iPhone destroyed Symbian would be an incredible over-simplification of what happened. The iPhone certainly destroyed Symbian in the UK and Australia but the picture in other countries is mixed. Symbian never had double-digit marketshare in the US for example. Other Symbian strongholds such as India and China haven't truly been conquered by Apple yet. If you look at where Symbian was dominant in terms of geography and price points, there's far more overlap with Android than iPhone. Ultimately, Nokia and Elop destroyed Symbian, ditched its well-reviewed successor and never found a viable alternative.

 

You say that Nokia had a "secret plan" to replace Symbian with MeeGo but it really wasn't all that secret. Nokia released its first internet tablet based on Maemo (the previous name for MeeGo) in 2005. It was already clear to smart commentators at that stage that ultimately Maemo/MeeGo would replace Symbian - an operating designed for low-powered hardware - as hardware advanced.

post #6 of 62
Nice. They deleted my comment.

You censor me but not the trolls?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #7 of 62
it's really not complicated at all. Symbian, Blackberry, and Windows Mobile were the three first generation smartphone OS's. when they were new they were a breakthrough and prospered (wiping out the earlier PDA's) but they were primitive - OS's too intrinsically limited to advance significantly.

so when Apple's second generation new iOS smartphone appeared, along with its following Android imitator, those three were quickly blown away.

they all attempted to develop second generation smartphone OS's too. we will never know if MeeGo would have succeeded for Nokia (i doubt it). BB failed with QNX. only Windows Phone has a modest niche market (thanks entirely to Nokia).

Android is in the process of forking and metastasizing into dozens of variations around the world that will have little or nothing to do with Google (altho the buffoon Schmidt will still hype their "activations.").

and then Apple brought its second generation smartphone OS to tablets, followed again by the Android imitator. but MS didn't have sense enough to do the same with the Windows Phone OS, instead birthing the stillborn RT.

iOS is so powerful - fundamentally a focused version of OS X - that it can continue to evolve technically indefinitely. maybe Android can too - i don't know.

will there be a third generation? yes, it will be the non-traditional-smartphone smartphones - the wearables, smart cars, smart houses, smart whatever. but the slow adoption - actual real use - of all the new "smart TV's" demonstrates the difficulty of this.

ultimately their success will depend on the ecosystems that tie them together with the smartphone/tablet you already have. while techies may love complicated set ups with many possibilities, all the rest of us consumers want stuff that Just Works, and as simply as possible.
Edited by Alfiejr - 10/10/13 at 9:26am
post #8 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

How the mighty have fallen. And that isn't just limited to Nokia.

It's not just that Apple came to market with a device way better than anything out there, they came out with a device that was so refined in its software it's actually weird that no other company has even tried to get this refinement into their software.

The HW I guess anyone can make, and I don't want to limit this to the manufacturers. But for crying out load, if you're going to copy the software as well, why oh why don't these companies do a better job?

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to say that other companies should have been able to conceive of a phone like the iPhone before Apple accomplished it or whether they should have better copied Apple after the iPhone was released.    In retrospect, it seems like we all should have been able to conceive the idea of the iPhone, but no one really did.   Back when I had an early Nokia in the late 90s, I though it far superior to the alternatives, even though all it did was make calls and have a phone directory.   When I went Crackberry, I thought the keyboard was good, but I did realize that the display was horrible and the "web browser" was totally useless.  But I still didn't realize that an ideal phone would have a 3 or 4" screen and be a phone, quality web browser, house applications, etc.

 

As far as the other manufacturers go today, while each of the competitors have their disadvantages and UI failures in their implementations, I think that for the average user, they perceive their Android or Windows phones to be every bit as good as the Apple phone and iOS and there are certain design elements on those phones that better Apple in some respects.   While I haven't studied those phones in detail, when I'm on a train and looking over someone's shoulder who is using one of those devices, I often say to myself, "hey..that looks surprisingly good."    There was a time when Apple was the only company who really understood typography and great GUI, but I think the competition has also now finally learned how to do quality work as well.

 

Frankly, I feel that the latest iOS should have taken a much bigger leap to jump over the competition.   It's a fine OS and my phone seems to be running much faster since I installed it, but I don't think there's anything there that kills the competition.   What's missing is something that is so great, people who don't already have an Apple iPhone say, "I can't live without that phone".   Instead, people are seeking less expensive alternatives (especially in places where phones aren't subsidized).

post #9 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Nice. They deleted my comment.

You censor me but not the trolls?

This is your only post in the thread, there aren't any deleted ones.
post #10 of 62
Frankly I wanted an iPhone like device way back when I was using a palm os Samsung SPH-i300. It was a good little folding phone, but I wondered way back then why folks can't create something more user friendly, more like a real pocket computer. I used to carry a swiss army knife around as it could do anything. My new swiss army knife is the iPhone!
post #11 of 62
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
This is your only post in the thread, there aren't any deleted ones.

 

Is this one of the recent articles that got posted multiple times? Were the threads merged? I can’t remember… 

post #12 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
This is your only post in the thread, there aren't any deleted ones.

Is this one of the recent articles that got posted multiple times? Were the threads merged? I can’t remember… 

This is the thread that had the number 160032 when the article was posted this afternoon (my time). I kept on posting but nothing would happen. I came back later only to find out it had now a new number, 160050, and even though the article was something like 3 hours old no one had posted in the thread. Weird.
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post #13 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This is your only post in the thread, there aren't any deleted ones.

I also posted a comment before and it didn't show.
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post #14 of 62
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
This is the thread that had the number 160032 when the article was posted this afternoon (my time). I kept on posting but nothing would happen. I came back later only to find out it had now a new number, 160050, and even though the article was something like 3 hours old no one had posted in the thread. Weird.

 

Aha, that’d be it, then. There’s a bug right now where articles are getting published to multiple threads. I’ve reported those with replies in them to have them merged, and I bet that’s just what happened.

 

Huddler fixed this before; not sure why it would happen again.

post #15 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

How the mighty have fallen. And that isn't just limited to Nokia.


It's not just that Apple came to market with a device way better than anything out there, they came out with a device that was so refined in its software it's actually weird that no other company has even tried to get this refinement into their software.


The HW I guess anyone can make, and I don't want to limit this to the manufacturers. But for crying out load, if you're going to copy the software as well, why oh why don't these companies do a better job?

I'm not sure if you're trying to say that other companies should have been able to conceive of a phone like the iPhone before Apple accomplished it or whether they should have better copied Apple after the iPhone was released.

Actually I was expecting for companies to copy Apple's attention to detail. They cannot ignore how profitable they've become, and I can only imagine they want this as well. Why they don't thoroughly look at their products, the software and every little detail to get that same level of attention I do not understand. It looks like thy all take shortcuts, hoping they'll be profitable 'sooner or later'. The familiar 'throw everything at the wall, see what sticks' approach.
Quote:
In retrospect, it seems like we all should have been able to conceive the idea of the iPhone, but no one really did.

Yeah, I can relate to that. It all seems so logical, but only after they delivered. They execute, there's no denying.
Quote:
, when I'm on a train and looking over someone's shoulder who is using one of those devices, I often say to myself, "hey..that looks surprisingly good."

That about says it for me: we are surprised by this fact, because our expectations have been lowered because of poor design we see every day. I often tell somebody while walking or driving around: "hey, they should've designed it this or that way" and more often than not I get the response that this would be a better way because blah die blah...
Quote:
There was a time when Apple was the only company who really understood typography and great GUI, but I think the competition has also now finally learned how to do quality work as well.

Here's to Apple; the leader of the pack
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post #16 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This is your only post in the thread, there aren't any deleted ones.

I was online at around 3am, when I saw this thread with "-1 comments", so posted a comment, something innocuous like "interesting!" And a complement about having insight into Nokia's internal reaction to iPhone. It was the first comment in the thread. PhilBoogie had not posted anything yet. I am certain I submitted a post and saw it appear when the page refreshed. There were no other comments in the thread, and no errors. Maybe it's a coding bug? I know I am not imagining this.

EDIT: I'm now seeing the others posts about this issue. Looks like it's some kind of code bug. Apologies.

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
This is the thread that had the number 160032 when the article was posted this afternoon (my time). I kept on posting but nothing would happen. I came back later only to find out it had now a new number, 160050, and even though the article was something like 3 hours old no one had posted in the thread. Weird.

Aha, that’d be it, then. There’s a bug right now where articles are getting published to multiple threads. I’ve reported those with replies in them to have them merged, and I bet that’s just what happened.

Huddler fixed this before; not sure why it would happen again.

Well, that's good news then. They know what's going on, and have a fix for it. Maybe we get lucky and they can resolve the issue entirely. Here's to hoping.

edit: also good news for Suddenly Newton
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post #18 of 62
Nokia was my 2nd cellular phone, back in 1985 or so, after owning a 'clunker' brick sized phone. It was light, easily pocketable, worked perfect and was very popular.It was my favourite phone till the iphones came out
.
I've owned iphones since they first came out, and I do expect Apple to tumble from the top eventually. Once your at the top of the market, there is no where to go but down.

Notwithstanding the 'feelings' of our capitalist companies, we (the consumers) continue to benefit from the evolvement of these great products; and quite frankly, I could care less which companies survive or die, as long as products continue to improve and get cheaper.

Companies that listen to their customers, and don't try to rule the market through their arrogance and dominance (i.e. RIM and Microsoft), will generally keep a soft spot in the hearts of their customers, and live through ups and downs (Apple)
post #19 of 62

Symbian had it all...

 

..."true" multitasking

 

...memory cards

 

...openness and customisation

 

...the right screen size, the iPhone's is too big to use one handed

 

...thousands of apps and millions of songs you could get for free

 

...MMS and more megapixels

 

...hardware keys

 

...voice navigation

 

...majority market share

 

There was no way they were going to fail.

 

It's ironic how all the Nokia fans switched their allegiance to Google, Samsung and others yet still make the same arguments.

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post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This is your only post in the thread, there aren't any deleted ones.

I also posted a comment before and it didn't show.

I'm not sure what happened to that one but it's probably not worth bothering about. 1wink.gif

PhilBoogie's and Suddenly Newton's posts are still there though, they got merged into the following thread:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160032/how-apples-iphone-rapidly-destroyed-nokias-world-leading-symbian-platform

I can't merge them in here because they were made before the thread started so would appear at the top.
post #21 of 62

I find it interesting that there is no Nokia Army overrunning this thread, four hours in. 

 

Not to derail the discussion, but this lends weight to the notion that Samsung apologists are paid to selectively "white knight" here.  I've considered that far-fetched, up to now.

post #22 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It's ironic how all the Nokia fans switched their allegiance to Google, Samsung and others yet still make the same arguments.

No they haven't
post #23 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post

I find it interesting that there is no Nokia Army overrunning this thread, four hours in. 

What would you like people to say? There are numerous factual errors in Daniel's story, the biggest being, Apple didn't kill Symbian, Nokia killed Symbian.
post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

To say that the iPhone destroyed Symbian would be an incredible over-simplification of what happened. The iPhone certainly destroyed Symbian in the UK and Australia but the picture in other countries is mixed. Symbian never had double-digit marketshare in the US for example. Other Symbian strongholds such as India and China haven't truly been conquered by Apple yet. If you look at where Symbian was dominant in terms of geography and price points, there's far more overlap with Android than iPhone. Ultimately, Nokia and Elop destroyed Symbian, ditched its well-reviewed successor and never found a viable alternative.

 

You say that Nokia had a "secret plan" to replace Symbian with MeeGo but it really wasn't all that secret. Nokia released its first internet tablet based on Maemo (the previous name for MeeGo) in 2005. It was already clear to smart commentators at that stage that ultimately Maemo/MeeGo would replace Symbian - an operating designed for low-powered hardware - as hardware advanced.

 

By "Symbian strongholds" you mean remaining markets for Nokia to sell its old, low end stuff. It is not exactly a living platform, and has been dead for a long time. Nokia canceled it. Remember that Windows Mobile continued to sell in Mexico long after it was toasted by the iPhone in markets where it was making money, too. Not exactly relevant.

The presence of Android/JavaME phones is also not material because those platforms have not increased share; they’ve just changed the name of the distro used by vendors who poop out low end devices that don’t really matter on an economic level. Android is simply a euphemism for "the remains of the mobile industry apart from Apple." It accounts for no more than a quarter of the industry’s profits.

Yes, Nokia never had significant share in the U.S., where Windows Mobile was strongest. But the iPhone destroyed both, very rapidly. Faster than any other transition in technology ever. Recall it took Microsoft ten years to sideline Apple with a copy of its Macintosh environment.

 

Apple pushed Microsoft and Nokia (and all of Nokia’s Symbian partners: DoCoMo, Sony Ericsson, Ericsson, Matsushita and Samsung) off the map. While also kicking the stool from under Palm and Blackberry. You can try to revise history and assign all of Apple’s victories to Google and its chaotic mess of a "platform" simply because lots of products exist on the market, but the problem is that the industry failed before Android ever appeared. 

 

Both Sony and Samsung introduced knee-jerk reactions to the iPhone in the form of a Symbian flagship followed by a Windows Mobile flagship. Well after both were in seriously deep trouble they moved to Android, but only because that was the only thing left. 

 

Maemo wasn’t secret as a netbook project, but its role of replacing Symbian on smartphones wasn’t outed until late 2009 because Nokia was relying on Symbian and didn’t want to admit it was in serious trouble or advertise that its flagship platform needed replacement. 

post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I can't merge them in here because they were made before the thread started so would appear at the top.

That has happened before, with TS. Yep, right here

I think that is when someone leaves a comment on the front page, before the thread has been created by Huddler. Then when some Huddler(?) script is run is takes the comments first and then the article itself. Or something. Whatever, no biggie. Anyhow, good to see thread #160032 back online lol
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post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


What would you like people to say? There are numerous factual errors in Daniel's story, the biggest being, Apple didn't kill Symbian, Nokia killed Symbian.

 

Hilarious. Please explain why Nokia killed Symbian if it wasn’t already slain by the iPhone. Symbian was regarded as great stuff in 2007. I had readers telling me that Apple would be stupid to introduce a mobile phone that wasn’t just Symbian with a personality layer on top. The whole industry was behind Symbian apart from North America’s Palm/WiMo/BBry. 

 

Two years later Symbian was dead. I find your historical revisionism entertaining though. 

post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That has happened before, with TS. Yep, right here

I think that is when someone leaves a comment on the front page, before the thread has been created by Huddler. Then when some Huddler(?) script is run is takes the comments first and then the article itself. Or something. Whatever, no biggie. Anyhow, good to see thread #160032 back online lol

How in the H E double sticks did you find that?
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post #28 of 62
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
How in the H E double sticks did you find that?


We’re the same person. He lives inside me and has eidetic memory, so he’s able to pull stuff up immediately just by typing the remembered URL. I live outside me and can’t remember what happened five minutes ago. Which is great, since I’d suffer from a crippling depression otherwise; this way all I have to do is wait a little while to forget–not only that I was curled into a ball weeping–but why that was happening, too.

 

What were we talking about? :lol:

post #29 of 62
I thought I left a note to myself around her somewhere...
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post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That has happened before, with TS. Yep, right here

I think that is when someone leaves a comment on the front page, before the thread has been created by Huddler. Then when some Huddler(?) script is run is takes the comments first and then the article itself. Or something. Whatever, no biggie. Anyhow, good to see thread #160032 back online lol

How in the H E double sticks did you find that?

That's the beauty of the search engine on this site, it apparently wasn't created by Google as this one actually works. It's really very good. It also helps that I remember keywords from posts so am able to do a narrowed search, if you will.

The thread numbers are a bit pathetic to remember, guilty as charged.
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post #31 of 62

the iphone did not kill nokia. nokia killed nokia. i used to work in nokia design for a number of years. from an insider's perspective, this article has nothing useful in it.

 

some journalist understood nokia's were hard to use after using an iphone? what insight! but, years too late. nokia's were hard to use before the iphone existed. the sad part was - they used to be great. then, color screens appeared, and engineer-lead novelty features started to crowd out the really useful stuff, needless complexity started setting in on top of plain ugliness. problem was, users still recognized the brand as easy to use. and, nokia being nokia - corporate leadership blindly continued to believe what consumers said, rather than what was right in their own hands - they were not easy to use, anymore. 

 

design was never respected; compromised at every turn, slicing off pennies from production cost, seen as valueless on its own. *EVERYTHING* was decided by committees. lower level managers, upper level managers, executives; everything was decided by consensus. in other words, everything got boiled down to it's lowest common denominator. i remember when the N series was being launched - they used this absurd phrase "multimedia computer." they were so happy with this phrase. so dumb. no one seemed to realize - most people hate computers. computers define hard to use for most people who use them. well... maybe they had found the best word for it, after all, as it was hard to use... just like a typical pc. 

 

there were so many problems at nokia, but one of the biggest shockers for me was when i found out how the bonuses worked for software engineers (and wow, did that company have too many software engineers). basically, causing bugs in their codebase brought down your bonus. this software guy i was working with came up with a fantastic solution to a problem - something that produced great results and was easy to use, too. then, he scrapped it. yes, it was likely to cause a bug somewhere. wow, software innovation causes bugs? go figure! but hey, we don't want innovation so let's make sure that never happens by penalizing their bonus. 

 

that bonus scheme alone would be enough to erode the company down to nothing, much less everything else. that reporter was meaningless in the reality of things. but, i suppose that's what writers do - inflate their own egos, and write about it. 

post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

Maemo wasn’t secret as a netbook project, but its role of replacing Symbian on smartphones wasn’t outed until late 2009 because Nokia was relying on Symbian and didn’t want to admit it was in serious trouble or advertise that its flagship platform needed replacement. 

 

Maemo wasn't a netbook project, it was an internet tablet project and a test bed for a new open source mobile platform. It was billed as Nokia's 'next-gen platform' way back in 2005. It didn't take a genius to work out that it was going to replace Symbian.

 

Just like OS X replaces Mac OS 9, Nokia had a long-term plan to replace Symbian with Maemo. Several Symbian devices (based on Series 90) even shared the same user interface. Operating systems become dated and need to be replaced. That's the way of technology. 

post #33 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

 

Maemo wasn't a netbook project, it was an internet tablet project and a test bed for a new open source mobile platform. It was billed as Nokia's 'next-gen platform' way back in 2005. It didn't take a genius to work out that it was going to replace Symbian.

 

Just like OS X replaces Mac OS 9, Nokia had a long-term plan to replace Symbian with Maemo. Several Symbian devices (based on Series 90) even shared the same user interface. Operating systems become dated and need to be replaced. That's the way of technology. 

 

The N770/N800/N900 may have looked remotely like a mini-tablet/iPod touch, but it worked like a netbook: a shrunken PC. 

 

Nokia failed to do anything apart from reinvent the Linux PC wheel that several other groups were already busy reinventing in parallel, without adding anything really useful or valuable in the process. They were all just trying to recreate Windows to perpetuate the 90s.

 

Nokia did need to replace the crufty foundation of Symbian, but while they toiled with Linux and failed to deliver a Linux-Phone before the end of 2011, they were blown away by Apple’s far more rapid and competent efforts to not just repurpose a desktop OS for mobile use, but to also actually think about how to deliver that in a useful form that didn’t just shrink down the PC.

 

That’s why the iPhone destroyed Nokia’s Symbian, Nokia’s Linux, Microsoft’s WiMo, Palm OS, BlackBerry’s JavaME, Motorola’s Linux and everything else. The only thing that has remained in play is Google’s cleaned up version of JavaME with an iOS interface littered with desktop Linux holdovers. We’ll see how well that works out over the next two years. 

 

Samsung got a lot of press this year, but delivered a series of duds. The GS4’s sales were massively disappointing. This has not yet even been reported yet. Once it starts sinking in, the landscape will change dramatically.  

post #34 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by exND View Post
 

the iphone did not kill nokia. nokia killed nokia. i used to work in nokia design for a number of years. from an insider's perspective, this article has nothing useful in it.

 

some journalist understood nokia's were hard to use after using an iphone? what insight! but, years too late. nokia's were hard to use before the iphone existed. the sad part was - they used to be great. then, color screens appeared, and engineer-lead novelty features started to crowd out the really useful stuff, needless complexity started setting in on top of plain ugliness. problem was, users still recognized the brand as easy to use. and, nokia being nokia - corporate leadership blindly continued to believe what consumers said, rather than what was right in their own hands - they were not easy to use, anymore. 

 

design was never respected; compromised at every turn, slicing off pennies from production cost, seen as valueless on its own. *EVERYTHING* was decided by committees. lower level managers, upper level managers, executives; everything was decided by consensus. in other words, everything got boiled down to it's lowest common denominator. i remember when the N series was being launched - they used this absurd phrase "multimedia computer." they were so happy with this phrase. so dumb. no one seemed to realize - most people hate computers. computers define hard to use for most people who use them. well... maybe they had found the best word for it, after all, as it was hard to use... just like a typical pc. 

 

there were so many problems at nokia, but one of the biggest shockers for me was when i found out how the bonuses worked for software engineers (and wow, did that company have too many software engineers). basically, causing bugs in their codebase brought down your bonus. this software guy i was working with came up with a fantastic solution to a problem - something that produced great results and was easy to use, too. then, he scrapped it. yes, it was likely to cause a bug somewhere. wow, software innovation causes bugs? go figure! but hey, we don't want innovation so let's make sure that never happens by penalizing their bonus. 

 

 

This is what makes AppleInsider great sometimes — the insider's view of how things really screw up. I'm sure a Microsoft designer could give a similar picture of what ails that company.

AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

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AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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post #35 of 62
This Apple Insider's article is simply pure rubbish and lie. iPhone did not kill Symbian, the whole claim that it did is ridiculous. Symbian was killed by Elop and MicroSoft, not by Apple and iPhone. iPhone really has never been a threat to Symbian. iPhonr has never been capable of killing Symbian.

I recommend that you take a look at this graph

http://www.tekniikkatalous.fi/...

The blue line is Nokia's Symbian smartphone sales . The red line is Samsung's Android sales, and the green line is Apple's iPhone sales.

As you can see from the graph iPhone sales were NEVER even close to as high as Symbian's sales. And we are now talking about the global sales, not just sales in USA. USA is not the whole world.

You can also clearly see from the graph that betweeb Q1/2009 and february 2011 Apple's iPhone sales DID NOT grow any faster than Nokia's Symbian sales. Actually Symbian sales grew faster during that period.

Now, look at the graph, and especially look at the date when Nokia's problems started.

As you can see Nokia's problems started in february 2011 AFTER Elop's burning platform memo and Elop's stupid strategy change which moved Nokia from Symbian and MeeGo to Windows Phone..

As you can see Nokia's Symbianm sales were GROWING before febriuary 2011. Sales collapsed AFTER Elop's memo and strategy change.

So yes, some Americans DID destroy Nokia. Canadian MS -trojan horse called Elop and USA based MicroSoft DID kill Nokia. So yes, america is quilty as hell.

You should also note that Elop made his burbib platform memo and strategy change at the time when Symbuan Belle and Nokia N9 with MeeGo Harmattan were close to release, but not released yet. Elop KNEW that those products were coming to market, in the summer 2011 and still he killed both Symbian and MeeGo. That damaged wery badly sales of both Symbian Belle and MeeGo devices before those were even released yet!!! That also destroyed Nokia. And Elop did the samw with Meltemi. Meltemi was almost ready when Elop cancelled the project.

As I said Symbian Belle was released in summer 2011 and MeeGo Harmattan in september 2011. The reason why those were released so closely in time is that Nokia was developing completely new Qt based UI for both Symbian Belle and MeeGo Harmattan. The UI was finished and ready for use in early summer 2011. Soon after that Symbian Belle and MeeGo Harmattan were released. The new UI was designed both platforms in mind. That's why Symbian Belle is so similar to MeeGo Harmattan, and that's why the UI of Symbian Belle and MeeGo Harmattan applications are almost udentical.

Meltemi was akso gioing to have a new Qt based UI. Meltemi was going to replace Nokia's Series 40 platform, which is also known S40 and as Asha..
Nokia's cheap feature phones were giubg to run completely new Meltemi platform. But then Elop killed Meltemi too.

So actually Elop destroyed three platforms when those were almost ready: Symbian Belle, MeeGo Harmattan and Meltemi. Sales of Symbian Belle and MeeGo Harmattan were badly damaged by Elop and Meltemi was cancelled and was never released.

You can clealy see that Nokia's death and collapse of Symbian sales was caused by Elop and MicroSoft. It was not caused by iPhone or Apple. . What Elop abd NuxroSoft did can only br described as a industrial sabotage and hostile take over of Nokia.

By the way, in February 2011 Symbian's global market share was still almost 30%. What's iPhone's current global market share? Well it's about 8%. That's about 1/3 of Symbian's market share before february 2011.

Symbian was still the global market leader during Q4/2010. And yes, we are talking about global market share, not about marketshare in USA. Android did overtake Symbian in the late 2010. That DID NOT happen because Symbian popularity and sales would have been shrinking. As you can see from the graph Symbian sales were growing, not shrinking. Android overtook Symbian because the whole global smartphone market was growing rapidly and Android managed to grow it's sales faster than what Symbian did.

So Symbian was still market leader during Q4/2010. But what about iPhone? It has never been market leaser, not even close to that status. Currently Android's global marjet share is more than 80%, and iPhones just about 8%.

So it's ridiculous to claim that iPhone killed Symbian, IT DID NOT. And Symbian is still really not dead. There is still tens of millions active Symbian users worldwide, two years and 8 months after Elop officially destroyed Symbian market!!
Edited by miksyg - 10/11/13 at 4:44am
post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

To say that the iPhone destroyed Symbian would be an incredible over-simplification of what happened. The iPhone certainly destroyed Symbian in the UK and Australia but the picture in other countries is mixed. Symbian never had double-digit marketshare in the US for example. Other Symbian strongholds such as India and China haven't truly been conquered by Apple yet. If you look at where Symbian was dominant in terms of geography and price points, there's far more overlap with Android than iPhone. Ultimately, Nokia and Elop destroyed Symbian, ditched its well-reviewed successor and never found a viable alternative.

You say that Nokia had a "secret plan" to replace Symbian with MeeGo but it really wasn't all that secret. Nokia released its first internet tablet based on Maemo (the previous name for MeeGo) in 2005. It was already clear to smart commentators at that stage that ultimately Maemo/MeeGo would replace Symbian - an operating designed for low-powered hardware - as hardware advanced.

I would argue regarding lack of viable alternative to MeeGoo.

While it might have been well reviewed, I'd say that Windows Phone is well reviewed as well. Good reviews don't always transfer into huge sales, though - but we can only guess how well would N9 and other devices on the same platform sell.
post #37 of 62

I think no-one else did what Apple did because other companies are run by software geeks, shareholders, and business executives, not creative designers or representatives of end users. They also prefer quick fixes and 80/20 solutions. Doing it right first time is not in their vocab, but continuous improvement is (an excuse to fail). Believe me, every company I worked at is non-Apple-like, because the wrong people are running it.

post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

The N770/N800/N900 may have looked remotely like a mini-tablet/iPod touch, but it worked like a netbook: a shrunken PC. 

 

No, it didn't work like a netbook. I owned an N800. It was very much a mini-tablet. It used full-screen apps, an ARM CPU, a touchscreen with on-screen keyboard and was an always on device.

 

Quite where you get the idea that it was a netbook is anyone's guess. The first model came out several years before the first netbook was released. I very much doubt you ever used one of Nokia's internet tablets.

post #39 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That has happened before

Hey, this is a DED article/ editorial. You should say 'this has all happened before'!
post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by miksyg View Post

This Apple Insider's article is simply pure rubbish and lie. iPhone did not kill Symbian, the whole claim that it did is ridiculous. Symbian was killed by Elop and MicroSoft, not by Apple and iPhone. iPhone really has never been a threat to Symbian. iPhonr has never been capable of killing Symbian.
 

 

Symbian died because people stopped buying high end Nokia phones.

 

That happened as a result of the iPhone taking away that part of the market.

 

Nokia could not make money selling cheap phones at the bottom of the market.

 

That's what killed Symbian, a death of slow strangulation as the money ran out.

 

That's what killed Palm and BlackBerry.

 

That is what is happening to the majority of Android handset makers.

 

"Marketshare" is a fairly meaningless metric, it's all about the money.

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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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