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iPhone 5s has 2% app crash rate; crashes half as likely on iPhone 5 & 5c - Page 2

post #41 of 94

Quite embarrassingly for Apple, there is a known and repeatable bug that occurs when you open an iCloud file in Numbers.  If you leave the file open and single click to return to the home screen, you will always get a blue screen and a reboot.

 

I am unhappy about this 1) because Apple has not publicized it, 2) because it occurs in places completely under their control, and 3) because they don't seem very interested in fixing it.

post #42 of 94

I've debated the validity of Crittercism with many a hater. Here are some key points to remember about their "studies":

 

- It's a tool used by developers to track App crashes while they are testing Apps.

- Developers have to specifically insert code into their App in order for Crittercism to track crashes for that App.

- Crittercism DOES NOT track all crashes that happen on your device as they have no such access to the OS. They only track crashes in Apps where a developer has chosen to use their tool.

- Once a developer has a stable working App, there's no need to keep using Crittercism. Some developers may "leave it in" permanently, but as a developer myself I see no need to keep such a feature in my App once it's been debugged and running stable.

- As a whole, Crittercism only tracks a ridiculously small percentage of total App launches (last time I checked it was around 1%). Combine this with the fact that Crittercism is used by developers for debugging purposes and you realize that their sample IS NOT representative of the entire App population as a whole. Yet this is the most common conclusion people take away from their studies.

- Crittercism does little to clarify these facts to explain how they get their data. This allows reporters to jump to conslusions like "iOS Apps crash more than Android Apps".

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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post #43 of 94
"there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet."

Then why are Android 64-bit phones coming in the next 9 to 12 months?

Less than 48 hours after Apple's presentation Samsung announced that its upcoming high-end smartphones would include 64-bit SoCs, and Intel said its new processors will support a 64-bit Android kernel.

Game developers are salivating over the iPhone's new chip because: Twice the registers, 64 bit operations in one processor cycle instead of four. Higher data and instruction bandwidth. Faster Virtual Memory system. 64 bit is more than about addressable memory.
post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongTimeMacFan View Post

Quite embarrassingly for Apple, there is a known and repeatable bug that occurs when you open an iCloud file in Numbers.  If you leave the file open and single click to return to the home screen, you will always get a blue screen and a reboot.

I am unhappy about this 1) because Apple has not publicized it, 2) because it occurs in places completely under their control, and 3) because they don't seem very interested in fixing it.

Bugs in a major OS update are now quite embarrassing? That's a new one.

Where would Apple publicized this? Take out a full page spread in the NYTimes to say that their OS is 100% free from all bugs and that some App Store apps might also experience issues under certain conditions? You do know what point updates are for, right?

How the hell do you know what Apple is interested in fixing? The OS has been out for 3 weeks and they've already issued 2 point updates. That tells me they are concerned with fixing bugs.

Egg on my face as your name LongTimeMacFan indicates that you're nothing but a troll and likely a paid shill to many any slight against Apple worse than it really is. Where was your outrage when every single Samsung product and bolt on SW had major issues? Oh, that's right, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
post #45 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

"Despite lingering issues, the bug tracking company said Apple has still done a good job of transitioning to a new 64-bit version of its mobile operating system in a way that is largely seamless to end users. Such problems are inevitable with the release of any new hardware or software, they said."

Yet the report reads like yet another "Apple is doomed" screed and will be picked up and spread like gonorrhea on a Thai cruise ship by the anti-Apple tech media. I can just see the headlines on Computerworld, C|net,  Forbes, MacRumors, AppleInsider... oh wait.

I know what you thought you were doing, but your "joke" involving the Thai just comes across as pointless racism.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiedude View Post

"there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet."

Then why are Android 64-bit phones coming in the next 9 to 12 months?

Note that he moved it from 4GB for the 64-bit memory addressing to 2GB, which Android already requires do to the inefficient OS it has to run. That is him already building up a future argument why 64-bit Android makes perfect sense.
post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet.  Maybe in a few years when individual apps need more than 2GB RAM it'll make sense, but the iPhone 5s only has 1GB RAM, Apple rushed this to market, it gives the user NO advantages over a 32-bit chip, and the software wasn't ready for it yet.

 

 

You must have been in your meditation chamber during Apple's presentation and when all the 5S reviews were published to explain that there is more to A7 than just the 64-bit address space. It has twice as many general purpose registers and twice as many floating point registers. That brings a significant increase in performance and you can get it for free just by recompiling your software to 64-bit code.

 

And it's not rushed to market either, it's a head start. The transition to 64-bit code will be a done deal before it is needed. A plan for expansion that is executed in advance of its necessity is a rare thing in the computing industry.

post #48 of 94
Right, now are some people talking about an app crashing several times a week, or the actual phone crashing?

App crashes I don't have a problem with. The phone falling over is a different thing entirely.
post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTown View Post
 

What are you talking about with the 64-bit processor being a waste? Read any article about the chip and tell me there's no advantage to it. Developer (specifically a new unreleased Infinity Blade app) and Apple apps (the Camera app more specifically) are able to perform so much better. That's half the reason why the camera is so much better, despite being the same megapixel count - it can process so much more, even faster than before. And finally, just read the comments retracted by Snapdragon saying that the 64-bit processor is a marketing gimmick.

I think what people are trying to claim is that 64-bit specifically is a waste, and that the A7's significant performance gains come from other architecture / speedup improvements. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong), the A7 runs 32-bit apps significantly faster than previous chips, which would suggest that most of the improvement is coming from the A7 itself and not from the transition to 64-bit. 64-bit is only particularly useful for certain types of heavy mathematical work, and that for applications that don't need to make full use of 64-bit there won't be any significant improvement due to that (though it'll still see the improvements due to the A7).

 

Personally I think calling it a "waste" is completely wrong. It benefits some apps significantly, doesn't offer many drawbacks to apps that don't benefit, and is pretty future-proof.

post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongTimeMacFan View Post

Quite embarrassingly for Apple, there is a known and repeatable bug that occurs when you open an iCloud file in Numbers.  If you leave the file open and single click to return to the home screen, you will always get a blue screen and a reboot.

I am unhappy about this 1) because Apple has not publicized it, 2) because it occurs in places completely under their control, and 3) because they don't seem very interested in fixing it.

First post from a 'LongTimeMacFan'?

Log out and register again, only this time try a user name that doesn't scream 'TRRRROLLLLLL'.
post #51 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

More crashes is newsworthy, despite fanboi desires that the news be suppressed.

 

And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet.  Maybe in a few years when individual apps need more than 2GB RAM it'll make sense, but the iPhone 5s only has 1GB RAM, Apple rushed this to market, it gives the user NO advantages over a 32-bit chip, and the software wasn't ready for it yet.

 

Mix that with iOS 7 being a steaming pile of garbage, and you get a device that's selling well ONLY because it's a status symbol.  Look, I've been an Apple guy since 1982, but if we don't call Apple on their mistakes, we're only going to get junk.  And if Apple keeps pushing junk out for too long, Apple really will be dying. And NONE of us want that.

 

I have an iPhone 5, and it does not crash. So, all bugs are related to the new architecture. Delaying the transition to 64-bit CPU, however, would not magically make the issues disappear. When making big changes (such as an architecture) bugs always appear. Every developer can tell you that no testing in the world could guarantee there are no bugs, it only guarantees no bugs have been found.

 

Software does not magically become "ready for 64-bit". No software system is released without bugs and no system is really tested until it is in the wild. 

 

64-bit processing is actually quite reasonable. Here's why:

1. Contrary to idiotic rumours spread around the internet, the architecture is quite impressive and brings massive gains to both software developers AND to the end user.

 

A7 is 2-core, 1.3GHz CPU, the same as A6. But it brings double the performance. It is the same as what a 4-core 2.3GHz Snapdragon 800 achieves. But, with greatly reduced power requirements (same as iPhone 5).

 

The battery life is preserved, performance is doubled. How bad is that for consumers?

 

2. When 64-bit CPUs are really needed (4+GB RAM, etc.), Apple will already have completed the transition. In three years all of the supported iOS devices will be 64-bit, except for the iPhone 5c.

 

 

Once the transition is complete, the iOS/Mac OS X team will no longer have to support two hardware architectures. Even the CPU architects working on, say, A10 could make use of that by removing everything related to 32-bit processing, and optimising the processor for 64-bit processing only.

 

While I agree that iOS7 icons look a bit strange, I happen to like the multi-layer approach and the animations a lot. The "steaming pile of garbage" is pretty much your own opinion, which most people don't share.

post #52 of 94
Originally Posted by LongTimeMacFan View Post
Quite embarrassingly for Apple, there is a known and repeatable bug that occurs when you open an iCloud file in Numbers.  If you leave the file open and single click to return to the home screen, you will always get a blue screen and a reboot.

 

How about you shut up with the blatant lies and obvious FUD? How’s that sound?

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #53 of 94

Actually, not a troll, just disappointed about this bug.  I signed up to make the group aware of the problem.

 

I use Numbers on my phone a lot, and it took awhile to sort out what was crashing my phone.  Never had a blue screen before, and I thought it was a hardware problem.

 

If you don't believe its's a problem, try it for yourself.

post #54 of 94

Try it yourself - it crashes every time.

 

I have a 32GB iPhone 5s, and from searching elsewhere others have observed the same bug.  If I close out the file before returning to the home screen, the crash will not occur.

post #55 of 94

No crashes so far (127 apps here) on my 5s, the background update should make getting the updated compatible versions widely distributed rather painless.

 

Oh and iOS 7? Even on my 5 it's performance was superior to 6 so there's that.

post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

I think what people are trying to claim is that 64-bit specifically is a waste, and that the A7's significant performance gains come from other architecture / speedup improvements. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong), the A7 runs 32-bit apps significantly faster than previous chips, which would suggest that most of the improvement is coming from the A7 itself and not from the transition to 64-bit. 64-bit is only particularly useful for certain types of heavy mathematical work, and that for applications that don't need to make full use of 64-bit there won't be any significant improvement due to that (though it'll still see the improvements due to the A7).

 

Personally I think calling it a "waste" is completely wrong. It benefits some apps significantly, doesn't offer many drawbacks to apps that don't benefit, and is pretty future-proof.

 


Don't forget that Apple has rewritten the Objective-C run-time to fully exploit the 64-bit architecture, one huge advantage is the use of Tagged pointers this gives a 2x to 2.5x speed increase for object creation/destruction just by recompiling on the same processor. There are so many more advantages the 4Gb limit is peanuts in comparison.
post #57 of 94

 

 

post #58 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


I know what you thought you were doing, but your "joke" involving the Thai just comes across as pointless racism.

 

Actually I'm quite pleased that you are offended.

post #59 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


Don't be an ass.


What do you mean be an ass? The best way to see if it's the phone or and app is remove all apps and see if it freezes if it does freeze it's the phone if not it's an app. Now you don't be an ASS!!!!!!!:devil:

post #60 of 94

I've had similar issues, but  not necessarily with 3rd party apps, but Apple apps such as Mail and iMessage. I've had both apps freeze on me rendering the iPhone 5S non-responsive and requiring a hard reset. This has happened at least 3-4X the past couple of weeks I've had my 5S 64GB. I've also had the phone restart itself when I was not actively using the phone. I either noticed it restarting on its own, or I was required to input my passcode after a hard restart rather than using my fingerprint (hence, I knew it had rebooted). I have a 5S 64GB AT&T with over 1000 apps, and  about 6-7GB of free space. My iPad 64GB 3rd generation was freezing, but it seems to have improved quite a bit after restoring it. I've been hesitating restoring my iPhone since I know it will take hours to restore all the apps. 

 

Before you accuse me of being a Fandroid, I am known for being a hard core Apple user: iPhones, iPads, iMac, MacBook Air, Apple TV's, iPod. I support all the Apple products for my wife and parents.  I wouldn't know how to use an Android device, and I don't need to know since I like the interactivity of my Apple products. I just figure that there are small (though frustrating) bugs that Apple will sort out. 

post #61 of 94

I haven't had any issues with my 5s so far. 

post #62 of 94

RE- the Numbers app bug, I tried this on both my iPhone 5 and iPad (3rd) and could not get a crash to happen.

 

Single clicking to get to the home screen with a file open worked flawlessly every time.

 

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Maybe it's unique to the model phone you are using or your phone in particular.

post #63 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwhiteco View Post

What do you mean be an ass? The best way to see if it's the phone or and app is remove all apps and see if it freezes if it does freeze it's the phone if not it's an app. Now you don't be an ASS!!!!!!!1devil.gif

To me, your comment sounded like a smart ass answer that would have you remove all apps so that it was less usable. It sounded like an exaggerated reply to my response.

An installed but non-running app will not crash the system. If it's the OS, which it likely is, then removing all App Store apps will do nothing and you'll still be blaming the device. Chances are if it's an app it's the app that is being used when it crashes. If that is too much to deal with (like the first LTE iPhone was for me witch the battery drain issue) then go ahead and return it. Or you could wait for an inevitable iOS 7 update. This is not unfamiliar ground.
post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post

More crashes is newsworthy, despite fanboi desires that the news be suppressed.

And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet.  Maybe in a few years when individual apps need more than 2GB RAM it'll make sense, but the iPhone 5s only has 1GB RAM, Apple rushed this to market, it gives the user NO advantages over a 32-bit chip, and the software wasn't ready for it yet.

Mix that with iOS 7 being a steaming pile of garbage, and you get a device that's selling well ONLY because it's a status symbol.  Look, I've been an Apple guy since 1982, but if we don't call Apple on their mistakes, we're only going to get junk.  And if Apple keeps pushing junk out for too long, Apple really will be dying. And NONE of us want that.

If you think iOS 7 is garbage ur going to have a tough time finding a word for any other platform. And ur wrong about 64 bit no providing advantages. This is as dumb as Qualcom vp first claiming that and later being retracted back saying they were wrong.
post #65 of 94

Agreed.  The analysts have no financial interest in anything beyond their paycheck.  Therefore they write incendiary articles in order to sell.

 

On the other hand, Apple may be losing touch with the people with the $$$ as they listen to techies who like to innovate ("oh...wouldn't it be nice if we did ...  That would be so cool") and failing to understand that most of the users are more or less silent but eventually vote with their buying dollars.  When innovations like the appearance of iOS7 start to irritate the silent buying public it can eventually erode marketshare.  The mass of the buyers want simplicity.  The techies want cool.  The money does not come from the techies.

 

Happened before you know.

SkyKing
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SkyKing
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post #66 of 94

Actually, I've found the opposite. I'd been dealing with hard crashes not just of apps, but of the entire phone, since installing 7 on my iPhone 5.

Since getting my 5s, I haven't had a single freeze.

So YMMV.

post #67 of 94
hope there is a 7.0.3 that fixes all these bugs.
->motion sensors are a little messed up.
->you can turn off find my iPhone by turning on airplane mode in control centre (Why do they have access to control centre if it is wiped out??easy fix)
->the crashes.
post #68 of 94
uhh.
does reseting the phone help??
post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Well, that didn't take long. BIG HEADLINE at C|net...

Blue Screen of Death attacks some Phone 5S owners




"
The infamous Blue Screen of Death seems to have expanded from Windows PCs to iPhones."


Apple Is Doomed!

BSOD? I'm excited for Apple. Maybe now Windows fans will take the iPhone more seriously as a computer.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #70 of 94
The lack of updates to Apps both 3rd party and Apple for iOS 7 compatibility is pathetic.
post #71 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post

More crashes is newsworthy, despite fanboi desires that the news be suppressed.

And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet.  Maybe in a few years when individual apps need more than 2GB RAM it'll make sense, but the iPhone 5s only has 1GB RAM, Apple rushed this to market, it gives the user NO advantages over a 32-bit chip, and the software wasn't ready for it yet.

Mix that with iOS 7 being a steaming pile of garbage, and you get a device that's selling well ONLY because it's a status symbol.  Look, I've been an Apple guy since 1982, but if we don't call Apple on their mistakes, we're only going to get junk.  And if Apple keeps pushing junk out for too long, Apple really will be dying. And NONE of us want that.

This company survived the Apple ///, The Lisa, the Macintosh Office, The Newton, John Sculley, Michael Spindler, years of neglect and focus, Gil Amelieo, the PowerMac G4 Cube, MobileMe launch, Ping, Antennagate, and Apple maps 1.0 and you think a 64-bit chip and iOS 7 will sink it?

Sounds like you haven't been paying much attention since 1982.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #72 of 94
"And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet."

There's no troll like an ignorant troll.
post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

More crashes is newsworthy, despite fanboi desires that the news be suppressed.

 

And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet.  Maybe in a few years when individual apps need more than 2GB RAM it'll make sense, but the iPhone 5s only has 1GB RAM, Apple rushed this to market, it gives the user NO advantages over a 32-bit chip, and the software wasn't ready for it yet.

 

Mix that with iOS 7 being a steaming pile of garbage, and you get a device that's selling well ONLY because it's a status symbol.  Look, I've been an Apple guy since 1982, but if we don't call Apple on their mistakes, we're only going to get junk.  And if Apple keeps pushing junk out for too long, Apple really will be dying. And NONE of us want that.

 

Talking about not having a clue.

 

The advance to 64 bits on iPhones has nothing to do with RAM capacity.

 

There's plenty of examples explaining the performance advantages of having the new instruction sets.

 

Sigh... ignorant kids these days...

post #74 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

Of course there are bugs but I can't say it's a huge issue or a deal breaker. I've had exactly one non-repeateadable blue screen.

Well, the OS has been out for less than a month, so obviously if there are bugs this early one, they will get addressed.  I haven't had any problems with iOS 7 on my iPhone 4.  In fact, I didn't have any problems with iOS 6 on my iPhone 4 either.  I've never had to reset my OS on my iPhone 4.  To me, that's pretty good. 

post #75 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by heffeque View Post

Talking about not having a clue.

The advance to 64 bits on iPhones has nothing to do with RAM capacity.

There's plenty of examples explaining the performance advantages of having the new instruction sets.

Sigh... ignorant kids these days...

He's just mad that his mom won't buy him a 5s.

Plus some techy stuff he read on Anandtech makes him a processor expert.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #76 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

More crashes is newsworthy, despite fanboi desires that the news be suppressed.

 

And Apple made a mistake here, there's NO good reason to put a 64-bit processor in a mobile device yet.  Maybe in a few years when individual apps need more than 2GB RAM it'll make sense, but the iPhone 5s only has 1GB RAM, Apple rushed this to market, it gives the user NO advantages over a 32-bit chip, and the software wasn't ready for it yet.

 

Mix that with iOS 7 being a steaming pile of garbage, and you get a device that's selling well ONLY because it's a status symbol.  Look, I've been an Apple guy since 1982, but if we don't call Apple on their mistakes, we're only going to get junk.  And if Apple keeps pushing junk out for too long, Apple really will be dying. And NONE of us want that.

 

No, Apple didn't rush the 64bit to the market.  It's the apps are not ready.  It's a chicken and egg problem.  Without the 64bit why the apps need to be ready?  It takes time to transition to 64bit just like the desktops and laptops some years ago.

 

However, i'll wait for the next fresh for Apple and apps to iron out all the 64bit problem.  Rumor says the next iphone will be a large screen.  Can't wait...

post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen View Post

No, Apple didn't rush the 64bit to the market.  It's the apps are not ready.  It's a chicken and egg problem.  Without the 64bit why the apps need to be ready?  It takes time to transition to 64bit just like the desktops and laptops some years ago.

However, i'll wait for the next fresh for Apple and apps to iron out all the 64bit problem.  Rumor says the next iphone will be a large screen.  Can't wait...

The transition to 64-bit is much, much easier and faster than the transition to support 4" or 2x (Retina) displays. Even large, complex app makers are being able to make the necessary changes within a couple hours. Funny I never hear people claim Apple made the jump to a larger screen "too soon" when I still have some apps that only work on the 3.5" layout.
post #78 of 94

For all the people who think 64bit doesn't give any advantage until you have 4GB of RAM, I have a some very simple questions for you:

 

- Does this mean that only Apps that are 4GB or larger get any benefit?

- Does it mean only Apps that load files that are 4GB or larger get any benefit?

- What if I'm running several Apps that only require 200MB of RAM (code & data)? Does that mean I don't get any benefit until I'm running 20 or more at the same time until I hit the 4GB barrier (200MB x 20 Apps = 4GB)?

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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post #79 of 94
I have a iPhone 5, get about 8% crash rate, am I unlucky or what?
post #80 of 94
I find it a little strange that Apple did not increase the RAM on the iPhone 5S. A 64-bit compiled binary is typically larger than its 32-bit counterpart and consumes slightly more RAM, too. If Apple recompiled their iOS libraries, applications and services for 64-bit, I would suspect there is less available RAM on the iPhone 5S than 5C or the original 5.
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