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iPhone 5s takes 64% of Apple's smartphone sales, 5c with 27%, survey finds - Page 2

post #41 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post
 

This is exactly what the 5c should be doing. How would a regular 5 have sold? A 5 with a more expensive case? How much would it have cannibalized sales of the 5s? I think the 5c strategy worked out perfectly, no cannibalization and higher margins from those who did buy it.

 

Actually all the figures from this data are suspect... but let's just say they are right for argument's sake.

 

The same data from last year shows that the 5 sold a 68% share.

 

So... using this data as gospel we find that the 5c is indeed cannibalizing 5s sales.

 

... but as someone mentioned, the margin of error probably wipes out most of the differences in the data.


Edited by island hermit - 10/14/13 at 8:20am
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post #42 of 120
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

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Can you name one?

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post #43 of 120
So 9%--roughly one out of ten--buy a 4s? And for every three 5Cs sold, someone buys a 4s? Interesting.

And "island hermit" says "So... using this data as gospel we find that the 5c is indeed cannibalizing 5s sales"…

That would appear to be the case and by almost exactly the same ratio that 4Ss cannibalized the sales of iPh5 units one year ago, right?
post #44 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


"The new data also suggests that the iPhone 5c is not carving out a larger share of overall iPhone sales than the iPhone 4S managed last year, when it was the company's $100-on-contract handset."

There hasn't been much evidence yet that the 5c was a "great move" unless I've missed a lot.

 

Yes, you've missed a lot. And you're wrong as usual. Move on to your next troll please.

post #45 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So basically what this survet says is early adopters are buying the flagship device. Wow color me shocked.

I think that's right. It's the sustained sales shares that are important, not the first few weeks after launch.

 

BTW, I also think it's wrong to view Europe (even the EU) as an homogeneous market. iPhone's doing pretty well in UK, I believe. From personal experience, teens also like iPod Touch (they and parents see the 'iPhone ecosystem without the call charges' angle).

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post #46 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

So 9%--roughly one out of ten--buy a 4s? And for every three 5Cs sold, someone buys a 4s? Interesting.

And "island hermit" says "So... using this data as gospel we find that the 5c is indeed cannibalizing 5s sales"…

That would appear to be the case and by almost exactly the same ratio that 4Ss cannibalized the sales of iPh5 units one year ago, right?

 

I'm not sure about the 4s cannibalization of the 5. The data from 2011 wasn't included and I'm too lazy to look it up.   ;)
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post #47 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

"The new data also suggests that the iPhone 5c is not carving out a larger share of overall iPhone sales than the iPhone 4S managed last year, when it was the company's $100-on-contract handset."

There hasn't been much evidence yet that the 5c was a "great move" unless I've missed a lot.

 

I think most of the press haven't got the raison d'être of the 5c.

 

Apple wanted to keep the last year iPhone 5 on production chain but without monopolizing the iPhone 5s fab.  Indeed, the 5c is produce at lower cost and faster speed but more importantly on a parallel production, like the 4s. This is the only way Apple could meet the demand.

post #48 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I think most of the press haven't got the raison d'être of the 5c.

Apple wanted to keep the last year iPhone 5 on production chain but without monopolizing the iPhone 5s fab.  Indeed, the 5c is produce at lower cost and faster speed but more importantly on a parallel production, like the 4s. This is the only way Apple could meet the demand.

Why not just use the 5 as it was then?
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post #49 of 120

So the questions I have are...

 

1. How many of iPhone 5C buyers would have purchased the 5S anyways if the 5C didn't exist?

 

2. How many 5C buyers are return iPhone buyers?

 

3. How many iPhone 5C buyers are first time iPhone users either from another mobile platform, or just new mobile buyers in general?

 

4. What is the cannibalization rate, if any?

 

5. Why did people choose the 5S over the 5C? Price? Features? Appearance? Materials used?

 

I think these are the more important questions to ask rather than get all up in arms over the numbers. 

 

To these people who are bashing the 5C over the numbers, what type of numbers are you looking for? 50/50? 40/60 (C/S)? If the 5C were selling anywhere close the 5S I think there would be some issues and people would be whining about that then. 

 

Of course these are all questions we'll probably never know the answers to, but I think is what people should be asking themselves. 

post #50 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress0660 View Post
 

So the questions I have are...

 

1. How many of iPhone 5C buyers would have purchased the 5S anyways if the 5C didn't exist?

 

2. How many 5C buyers are return iPhone buyers?

 

3. How many iPhone 5C buyers are first time iPhone users either from another mobile platform, or just new mobile buyers in general?

 

4. What is the cannibalization rate, if any?

 

5. Why did people choose the 5S over the 5C? Price? Features? Appearance? Materials used?

 

I think these are the more important questions to ask rather than get all up in arms over the numbers. 

 

To these people who are bashing the 5C over the numbers, what type of numbers are you looking for? 50/50? 40/60 (C/S)? If the 5C were selling anywhere close the 5S I think there would be some issues and people would be whining about that then. 

 

Of course these are all questions we'll probably never know the answers to, but I think is what people should be asking themselves. 

 

Honestly... with all the effort that Apple is putting into the 5c... I would expect 7/33/60 at the very least.

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post #51 of 120

Has anyone seen the new AT&T pricing on iPhone?

 

  • $0 down payment!
  • $0 activation fee!
  • $0 upgrade!
  • No financing fee

     

http://www.att.com/wireless/iphone/

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post #52 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Why not just use the 5 as it was then?

 

Gatorguy, that is an easy one.  They upped the specs just a little for two reasons (which could be an and/or situation):

 

1. To give the appearance of a new phone.  You have seen how many people bash the 5C because it is basically a repackaged 5.  Could you imagine the outrage if it were exactly the same internals?

 

2. The older parts were more expensive to acquire, so they used more accessible parts that were slightly newer.

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post #53 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I was replying to TBell's assumed numbers.

 

 

I was just using the numbers of the less than clear  article. ;)

post #54 of 120
The 5c is just a 5 with a colorful shell.

So right now all the people who already have a 5 (most likely less than a year old 5) wouldn't be interested in the 5c really unless they really really wanted color.

The fact that the "middle" tier of iPhone still increased year over year is probably significant.

Also the fact that the 2 year old 4S is still selling well is also impressive, considering the new iPhones appeal...

I think it's like this (noting I am not an "expert" and Indont know anyone on the inside not do Inwork for any special company who builds iPhones):

Apple knew exactly how many aluminum iPhone chassis they could produce - and there was now way they could make enough to support two models of iPhone with aluminum chassis. So instead they took the guts of their "old" 5 and put them in a pretty nice plastic body so that they could focus all of their aluminum capacity on the flagship 5S.

That's it. That's all. If they had kept the 5 in an aluminum body they never would have been able to produce near enough to meet demand (heck - they're having difficulty just making one aluminum phone fast enough for customers). Imagine how bad the wait times would be if the iPhone 5S had another 27% of demand added to it...
post #55 of 120

I don't know if Apple is "shocked" by the numbers or if it's a bad thing.  The 5S is the more expensive model and if they would have done any differently if they just lowered the price of the iPhone 5 instead of the 5C.

post #56 of 120

I'd still like to see what the holiday numbers are for the 5C. With a lot of people getting phones as Christmas gifts in previous years, there are a lot of people who aren't able to upgrade their phones yet.  This is something else that isn't taken into play with the numbers. 

post #57 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Why not just use the 5 as it was then?

 

I think machining the 5-5s aluminium casing one at the time with CNC machine is what constraining the 5s production.  

 

Plastic molded casing can be produce at much greater speed.  

post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


IF the numbers are fairly accurate (big IF IMO) it would only be a 4% increase despite a whole lotta Apple advertising and promotion of the 5c. I'd think you'd be more likely to see that as a disappointing increase considering the efforts in promoting it.

 

 

I doubt the numbers are only 4% as well, but even if Apple sells the same amount of 5Cs as it did 4Ss I would still see the 5C as a positive move by Apple. Releasing the iPhone 5C instead of continuing to sell the iPhone 5 freed up manufacturing resources shared by both the 5S and 5 to just be used for the iPhone 5S. Image the delay for 5Ss if Apple was still making the 5. The 5C also has higher margins than the iPhone 5 so Apple still makes more money if it sells the same amount of 5C as its did 4Ss. 

 

I also don't see the iPhone 5C doing as well with the folks who want the latest and greatest immediately. I think Apple will move a lot of them though. My girlfriend got one. There are a  lot of companies offering zero down deals on the iPhone 5C. 

post #59 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Why not just use the 5 as it was then?

 

Because its too close the 5S design. Its also hard to manufacturer in mass quantities and I think Apple wanted a phone that was easier to manufacturer in mass quantities. The 5C isn't necessarily cheaper to make. From what I've read its only about $10 or less cheaper to make an iPhone 5C vs the iPhone 5S (I assume the 5S is similar to the 5 in build price). 

 

I also think it would be hard to sell the 5 at $99 and then sell the 5S at $199. I believe it would confuse customers.

post #60 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkraider View Post

The fact that the "middle" tier of iPhone still increased year over year is probably significant.

 

It's not actually a fact.

 

I was reading another article about an iPhone survey (USA only, again) done by this company and it said they took less than 500 "qualified" people out of a pool of 6500 for their survey.

 

Stats majors will be able to calculate the error rate, I can't. I would imagine, though, that it would be quite high.

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post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress0660 View Post
 

 

Because its too close the 5S design. Its also hard to manufacturer in mass quantities and I think Apple wanted a phone that was easier to manufacturer in mass quantities. The 5C isn't necessarily cheaper to make. From what I've read its only about $10 or less cheaper to make an iPhone 5C vs the iPhone 5S (I assume the 5S is similar to the 5 in build price). 

 

I think it would be hard to sell the 5 at $99 and then sell the 5S at $199. I believe it would confuse customers.

 

Apple sold the 4 and the 4s alongside each other in 2011.

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post #62 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

I think machining the 5-5s aluminium casing one at the time with CNC machine is what constraining the 5s production.  

 

Plastic molded casing can be produce at much greater speed.  

 

 

That is my view as well. The casing for the iPhone 5 and 5S is a slow and expensive process. Moreover, the same equipment is used to build both. If Apple was selling both the iPhone 5 and 5S, Apple would have a hard time meeting demand for both. 

post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Apple sold the 4 and the 4s alongside each other in 2011.

 

Citation needed...

post #64 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
 

 

 

That is my view as well. The casing for the iPhone 5 and 5S is a slow and expensive process. Moreover, the same equipment is used to build both. If Apple was selling both the iPhone 5 and 5S, Apple would have a hard time meeting demand for both. 

 

Exactly!

post #65 of 120
I would have bought one except for the fugly colors, black would have been my choice, and lack of finger print scanner. Seems like a like functional iPhone 5 replacement. But personally I think they could have picked better colors. That and IMHO the price should have been $50 on contract. That way, they could have been free when wallyworld and worstbuy put them on sale.
post #66 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Apple sold the 4 and the 4s alongside each other in 2011.

 

 

Yes, but the amount of demand was lower. Apple also has always said it could have sold more of both the iPhone 5 and 5S on opening weekend if it could build them faster.  

post #67 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fh-ace View Post

I would have bought one except for the fugly colors, black would have been my choice, and lack of finger print scanner. Seems like a like functional iPhone 5 replacement. But personally I think they could have picked better colors. That and IMHO the price should have been $50 on contract. That way, they could have been free when wallyworld and worstbuy put them on sale.

 

You're obviously not the target market for this phone then...

post #68 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fh-ace View Post

I would have bought one except for the fugly colors, black would have been my choice, and lack of finger print scanner. Seems like a like functional iPhone 5 replacement. But personally I think they could have picked better colors. That and IMHO the price should have been $50 on contract. That way, they could have been free when wallyworld and worstbuy put them on sale.

 

 

I think the blue is pretty nice, and does it matter when most people use a case? I have seen a few companies offering them for zero dollars down. T-Mobile is one. 

post #69 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
 

 

 

I think the blue is pretty nice, and does it matter when most people use a case? I have seen a few companies offering them for zero dollars down. T-Mobile is one. 

 

I have a green one and I really like it. I think it looks very cool with the black Apple case for it. Black and florescent green looks really nice IMO. 

post #70 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fh-ace View Post

I would have bought one except for the fugly colors, black would have been my choice, and lack of finger print scanner. Seems like a like functional iPhone 5 replacement. But personally I think they could have picked better colors. That and IMHO the price should have been $50 on contract. That way, they could have been free when wallyworld and worstbuy put them on sale.

 

You know this is where the 5c strategy pay off. By having a new hippie lower phone targeted for common market, it made the higher end 5s even more desirable for high end user.  Both phones will find their market.  


Edited by BigMac2 - 10/14/13 at 9:35am
post #71 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
 

 

 

Yes, but the amount of demand was lower. Apple also has always said it could have sold more of both the iPhone 5 and 5S on opening weekend if it could build them faster.  

 

That wasn't the point. The other commenter said that if the 5 and 5s were together it would be confusing. In the past it appears that Apple didn't seem to worry about confusion. Didn't the v3 models sell together as well?

 

(... and, to the other person who replied to my comment, why the hell would a citation be needed... it's a fact, the 4 sold alongside the 4s)

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post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

That wasn't the point. The other commenter said that if the 5 and 5s were together it would be confusing. In the past it appears that Apple didn't seem to worry about confusion. Didn't the v3 models sell together as well?

 

(... and, to the other person who replied to my comment, why the hell would a citation be needed... it's a fact, the 4 sold alongside the 4s)

 

Lets not get all upset because someone called you out on something. There's no citation that it didn't confuse customers. 

post #73 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So basically what this survet says is early adopters are buying the flagship device. Wow color me shocked.

 

Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.

 

And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else. 

 

In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.

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post #74 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

That wasn't the point. The other commenter said that if the 5 and 5s were together it would be confusing. In the past it appears that Apple didn't seem to worry about confusion. Didn't the v3 models sell together as well?

 

(... and, to the other person who replied to my comment, why the hell would a citation be needed... it's a fact, the 4 sold alongside the 4s)

 

 

My apologies. I do not agree consumers would be confused any more than they would have been with the 4 and 4S. I, however, think the 5C is a good move on Apple's part for the other reasons mentioned. Moreover, do not forget display space. If you go to a Verizon or AT&T store, generally speaking, only the latest models get display space. Apple's move likely garner it more display space in stores. 

post #75 of 120
Last year's 4S, 23% of 5 million or so - say 1.3 million units
This year's 5C, 27% of 9 million - 2.4 million units
Increase in sales - 84% ((2.4-1.3)/1.3*100)

Of course, the rise in sales in the opening weekend is partly due to additional markets, and we don't know if the ratios cited from a US based study will apply at all to the China market. I would imagine though that Apple is pretty happy with the 5C sales vs the 4S last year, particularly if as seems likely the margins are higher.
post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.

 

And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else. 

 

In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.

 

 

So, now the iPhone 5S is way more expensive? LOL. I thought it was not cheap enough in relation to the iPhone 5S. The reality is Apple has only been selling the phone for about a month. Check back in after the Christmas Quarter. 

post #77 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.

 

I think you get it wrong, what killed Apple before SJ and TC era was having to much concurrent production models and too much unsold inventory, TC geniuses was to cut inventory down from 60 days to 1 day.  Of course ever since Apple has always play on the line of having just the right production level to met the demand.   As a consumer, you may find it frustrating, as a multi billion dollars corps, you will find it genius. 

post #78 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
 

 

 

So, now the iPhone 5S is way more expensive? LOL. I thought it was not cheap enough in relation to the iPhone 5S. The reality is Apple has only been selling the phone for about a month. Check back in after the Christmas Quarter. 

 

Make it "more expensive" for the 5S and not "cheap enough" for the 5C...is that clear now?

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post #79 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

I think you get it wrong, what killed Apple before SJ and TC era was having to much concurrent production models and too much unsold inventory, TC geniuses was to cut inventory down from 60 days to 1 day.  Of course ever since Apple has always play on the line of having just the right production level to met the demand.   As a consumer, you may find it frustrating, as a multi billion dollars corps, you will find it genius. 

 

Read about the PowerBook debacle and check back here (a great machine demanded by many but with insufficient supply at least until much later); I am not even talking about the ridiculous Performa/LC/Quadra situation. 

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post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Wrong - it means Apple has failed in its expectations to have the "budget" 5C as its biggest-selling phone; instead, it's gonna be sitting in inventories all over the world because no one could give a crap about it.

And some of the geniuses around here were still asking me for "facts" about my negative statements concerning the 5C - early price cuts, less than 1/3 of sales even though the flagship model is way more expensive...this means weak demand and nothing else. 

In fact, this reminds of Apple's dark years when it completely miscalculated demand for the PowerBook, not being able to fulfil orders as it should have...and Cook, the world's former "best COO", does it again...pathetic.

Don't you have a Galaxy phone you can get off on?

Apple never said the 5C is a "budget" iPhone. It's just lower cost. The fact that it "only" sold 1/3 the qty than the 5S is amazing since it outpaces Sammy's flagship (at least in the US) and the 5S is the flagship iPhone. Also fact: people line up for the latest and greatest.
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