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Rumor: Amazon's French and German sites suggest new Apple TV coming Oct. 23 - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

I predict a new Apple TV with a built-in antenna which will allow for A LOT MORE TO COVER.

Personally, just a 75ohm connector would do for me…. which would allow taking in OTA or cable….

post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I should hope they swap the A5 for an A7 or A6… That would at least allow for higher bitrate content. I don’t care about any of the other implications, since I think they’re mostly stupid.

Not that I like 3D nor will afford 4k anytime soon but even Netflix will offer content in 3d 4k soon so a processor bump would be great for that.

Does 4k require display port or can HDMI handle it?
post #43 of 54
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post
Does 4k require display port or can HDMI handle it?

 

HDMI 2.0 can handle 4K60. 1.4 can do it at 30FPS, which isn’t acceptable.

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post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73 View Post

Question for those in the know - I have a 2nd gen, non-jailbroken, box, etc. It is up to date with the latest official build. Is that a problem for jail breakers? If not, I may look to sell it and get two 3rd gens (or 4th if they are announced tuesday)

Nope, no issue at all. Latest build on an ATV2 is perfectly fine.
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post


Not that I like 3D nor will afford 4k anytime soon but even Netflix will offer content in 3d 4k soon so a processor bump would be great for that.

Does 4k require display port or can HDMI handle it?

We're probably a generation away.   Broadcom did announce the UltraHD 4K BCM7445 early in the year but it's aimed at STB and could use a bit too much power.   I'm thinking this update will carry us forward and Apple TV 5th generation will support 4K and higher bit-rates.  8-10Mbps of HEVC would look fantastic in 1080 and perhaps acceptable in UltraHD. 

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #46 of 54
At 11:30 am Pacific Time, Amazon France & Deutschland have already changed their webpage & showing the apple TV in stock.
post #47 of 54
Much-ado about nothing IMO. Still, a new-gen Apple TV announcement would be a very nice pseudo-surprise on the 22nd. And now for one more thing... haven't heard that in a while!
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

We're probably a generation away.   Broadcom did announce the UltraHD 4K BCM7445 early in the year but it's aimed at STB and could use a bit too much power.   I'm thinking this update will carry us forward and Apple TV 5th generation will support 4K and higher bit-rates.  8-10Mbps of HEVC would look fantastic in 1080 and perhaps acceptable in UltraHD. 

Here's what we will probably see...an Apple TV with 802.11ac networking and not much else.

What we should see: a processor upgraded version that transforms Apple TV into a media player/gaming console with controllers and an App Store. Given the fact that the console market is under transition with the PS4 and XBox One ready to launch (and the Wii lagging without an update), there hasn't been a better opportunity to disrupt the console gaming market in years. And Apple already has a lot of game developers who can easily deliver content in a short period of time. The current A5 processor isn't leading edge anymore to make a gaming statement....A6 or better yet, A7 would be better (but could Apple deliver it and keep the $99 price point?).

Unlikely but nice to dream: a 4K media player. Not going to happen since not enough 4K sets out there, HDMI 2.0 is barely out the door and no one has done HEVC on the chip level yet (although if anyone could surprise us with it, it would be Apple). That will have to wait for Apple's own 4K set in 2014 (we hope).
post #49 of 54
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
should… …an App Store.

 

Nah.

 
(and the Wii lagging without an update)

 

Except it already got one a year ago. 

 
…there hasn’t been a better opportunity to disrupt the console gaming market in years.

 

P to the I double P single I single N.

 
…Apple's own 4K set in 2014 (we hope). 

 

Speak for yourself. I don’t want Apple making trash.

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post #50 of 54

Really TS?  An App Store for the Apple TV is obvious to just about everyone.  It's required if you want to do a proper gaming console.

 

As for the Wii, I meant a new Wii successor, not a mild update to the existing platform.

 

And speaking of which....PIPPIN?  Seriously??  Nobody but nobody but the most deluded Apple haters throws that old failure from the dark days of the 90s to make a point.  Wake up and join the 21st century.  Back then, Apple was laughed at by the gaming community.  These days Apple is the biggest driver of mobile games.  It's not a stretch to put the same modern hardware sitting in the 5/5c in the Apple TV.  You already have Bluetooth for gaming controllers, or you can use an iOS device you probably already own.  And if they could manage to come strong with the A7, you have a platform that would rival the new PS4 and XBox One for a fraction of their prices.  I could see coming to market with a $99 modern gaming Apple TV and then $50 for controllers that would be optional (or market together as a gaming bundle).  Allow third party controllers and you'd make a lot of people happy.

 

And lastly, an Apple Television set is the worst kept secret in silicon valley.  It will happen, just a matter of when and what tech will be in it.  If they've waited this long, it's going to be a 4K set.  And it will be awesome.  Certainly not trash.

post #51 of 54
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
An App Store for the Apple TV is obvious to just about everyone.

 

Can you give me a point to it, at least? Just one? 

 
It's required if you want to do a proper gaming console.

 

Who the frick says Apple wants to do a “proper” gaming console, much less one at all?!

 
As for the Wii, I meant a new Wii successor, not a mild update to the existing platform.

 

Yes. That already happened. Please stop pretending you get to decide some things and ignore others.

 
I could see coming to market with a $99 modern gaming Apple TV and then $50 for controllers that would be optional (or market together as a gaming bundle).  Allow third party controllers and you'd make a lot of people happy.

 

Who are these people? The ones who’d rather play Angry Birds on a mobile device, you mean?

 
 And lastly, an Apple Television set is the worst kept secret in silicon valley.

 

In that it isn’t happening, yes.

 
It will happen…

 

Trust me, guys, a 2.5” iPhone WILL happen. It’s just a matter of time. Trust me, guys, an xMac WILL happen. It’s just a matter of time.

 

Give us one reason for Apple to enter the third most saturated technology market on the face of the Earth with a product that by definition cannot be different from any other product out there. Give us one reason for Apple to enter the technology market with perhaps the lowest, most pathetic margins of any of them by introducing a product that, if it follows Apple’s longstanding system, will have roughly 20% margins, and which would instantaneously be undercut by competitors.

 
…what tech will be in it.

 

It’s a stupid screen. That’s all a television is and should be. It would be identical to any other TV on the market, except $1000 more than any of them. The hardware, in this case, is absolutely meaningless.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #52 of 54

It's a little ironic that the two biggest guys here are locked in a cage match.  But since I'm not usually a fan of flame wars, let's back down from the vitriol.  I'll make my argument and you are more than free to respond in kind.

 

OK, back to the original point of an Apple gaming machine of some kind.  Let's go over some facts.  The gaming console market is right now owned by three big players, Microsoft (XBox 360), Sony (Playstation 3) and Nintendo (Wii).  And of those, Microsoft is the clear leader although Sony has been catching up in recent months, mainly because new sales is down while gamers wait for shipment of new announced consoles on both platforms.  Nintendo, which came to market strongly with the lower priced but very playable Wii years ago came out with the Wii U handheld console which hasn't exactly lit up the gaming world.  Nintendo hasn't been able to keep market share in consoles (but the 3DS is selling very well).

 

The post-1997 Apple has been all about market disruption, often in existing markets.  The bondi-blue iMac disrupted what people thought computers should look like and it really disrupted the accessories market.  The iPod disrupted the nascent MP3 player market.  The iPhone kicked the doors down on what everyone thought a smartphone should be like.  And the iPad reimagined the tablet but it completely disrupted the PC market, an event that is still in progress.

 

The conversation about Apple and gaming goes back to the late 70s when the gaming market began with machines like the Apple ][.  Companies like EA began on that platform.  But Apple lost that early gaming battle when the PC was introduced.  The Pippin was an interesting idea that was poorly executed (too slow, too expensive and no signature games).  Market leaders Nintendo and Sony didn't really have much to worry about and Apple was bleeding cash at that point anyway and had no money to market it.  Fast forward to 2008.  The iPhone changed things but the App Store really changed things.  It wrested the handheld gaming market from Nintendo and set a new discipline on pricing.  Game designers has a "captive audience", good processor performance and great graphics performance in a package many people already owned or wanted.  They didn't have to carry a separate gaming machine with them.  Low pricing allowed a new category in gaming...the casual gamer.  They might not spend $30-$50 on the latest console game...but they would spend less than $5 for something.

 

I'm sure that Phil Schiller has been looking at the existing console market with interest.  The console gaming market turns over every 5-7 years when new hardware arrives from the established players.  The last time that this happened (Xbox->Xbox360 & PS2-> PS3), the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch didn't exist.  Apple had no real gaming market other than a few die hard Mac developers.  Now Apple has the attention of every gaming house out there and most develop for Apple, some exclusively.  Rockstar had $1 billion in sales from GTA in three days.  With console licensing fees, Sony and Microsoft get some of that money.  Don't you think Apple might want a piece of that action?

 

You do it how Apple has done it with everything else...an App Store.  In fact, the only major product (save iPods) that Apple makes that doesn't have an App Store of its own is the iOS based Apple TV.  So let's say you manage to get a curated store on that platform.  The next problem is the current Apple TV itself.  Of course it's pretty easy to upgrade it to 802.11ac networking and I'm sure that we'll see that next week.  But gaming consoles need decent horsepower to operate the latest games, which isn't as big an issue with a media streaming device, which is what the current Apple TV is.  In fact from a competitive standpoint, you might want to move into gaming since Microsoft and Sony have been moving into media streaming on their gaming consoles for years.  Software like XMBC and its off-shoots (Boxee, Plex) originated on the XBox.  The next gen Sony and Microsoft consoles will take media streaming which was originally an add-on into a central focus of their design.  This is prime competitive turf for Apple.

 

But Apple has a few advantages.  As mentioned before, they have an established OS and they have a leadership position in the mobile gaming market with that same OS.  The biggest issue with the current Apple TV is that it's underpowered for gaming.  The A5 is iPhone 4S class and it only has one core working to boot.  Again, that's ok for a media streamer but not enough for most modern games.  You'd need at least an A6X to drive a gaming platform, and if you wanted to strike fear in Microsoft/Sony, you'd come to play with an 64-bit A7X.  It would be folly to try to match the specs of the other bigger consoles but you might be able to push Nintendo out of the way on price.  Not having physical media is an Apple trait and modern broadband networks now makes having a larger mapped game get files from the cloud possible.  All this will help keep the price down.  Now a A6X or A7X powered Apple TV will not have the same margins as the older A5 unit.  But the revenues from an App Store would more than make up for that.

 

Why again, why enter a saturated gaming market?  Because Microsoft and Sony will be trying to sell new hardware to all those gamers again for the next several years.  None of the older games will be compatible.  The entire established market becomes a legacy.  This is prime territory for a new player with a disruption strategy and an army of developers at beckon call.  Microsoft and Sony historically lose money on their consoles since they are expensive to make and they compensate by making it up on gaming license revenues.  You think Apple loses money on Apple TV units?  With no App Store, that product has to stand on its own revenues.  Now add an App Store and the revenue model changes, even if an upgraded Apple TV costs more to make.  The original Apple TV cost near $300 and was a curiosity.  The current one at $99 is an impulse purchase for many...heck at that price, get two!  The PS4 and Xbox One are coming to market around $400-$500..prime pricing territory for disruption.

 

The alternative for Apple is to split the Apple TV into two products...the existing media streamer at $99 and an uprated gaming machine/media streamer with controllers at a higher price, but still much lower than Sony or Microsoft..no more than $200.  That may make everyone happy. (Except Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo)


Edited by Sevenfeet - 10/19/13 at 11:18am
post #53 of 54
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

Nintendo… …came out with the Wii U handheld console

 

You just need to stop talking until you know what you’re talking about. You don’t have a flipping clue.

 

Don't you think Apple might want a piece of that action?

 

That’s not the pertinent question. “Will developers care to give Apple said piece?”

 

Apple will do more games on Apple TV. Apple does games on Apple TV. Any developer can already do exactly what any “game-based” Apple TV would be, and that’s AirPlay it from the controller people are already going to use with it. Apple TV has no local storage. “8GB chip for buff–” Yes, for buffering. I’d love Apple TV to hold freaking data like it used to. I’d love Apple TV to read a frigging hard drive connected directly to the frigging local network so I don’t have to have a frigging computer on and iTunes open all the time. The question then becomes a cost benefit analysis to taking up even MORE of the NAND market with the Apple TV. And sizes? You’d need terabytes–plural–of NAND. Just not feasible.

 

But a console proper? Not gonna happen. They’ve seen consoles, they’ve seen hybrid consoles, and they’ve seen handhelds. Which are the most successful? The handhelds! 

 

Positioning Apple TV as “the box that streams absolutely everything” lets them take video, music, and game content all under one umbrella. Eventually it will add broadcast content! That’s the real revolution of the Apple TV.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #54 of 54
Ok, TS, I tried to dial back the flame war with with what I thought was a cogent reflective essay. You respond by basically blasting me by saying I don't have a clue of what I'm talking about without any decent argument backing up your statement. If you're going to flame, at least give a good argument as to why I'm off base. Otherwise, I'm writing you off as someone who cannot even make it in a high school debate club.

As for your second point, it's not a bad one except you fail to remember that Apple already gets 30% revenue from all paid app sales (and in-app purchases) from iPhone/iPad gaming. Hear me again..They are already getting a piece of that action. And console developers already surrender millions in payments to the Sony and Microsoft by license fees. None of this is new. Why would they give Apple that money? Why are they paying Microsoft and Sony now? It's the cost of participating in the ecosystem.

But not everyone likes playing AirPlay gaming. There is a lag and it doesn't work for everything. Mobile gaming has been great for Apple and great for the industry. My take is that Apple has little to lose by going after the big console players and the billions in revenue they generate. The technology to compete in this arena is already made by Apple. Cloud computing is becoming the norm now, not the exotic tech. I think the current Apple TV wouldn't make a good gaming machine but it wouldn't take too much to change that. Again, I think the real target for such a device is Nintendo's business. Anything they pick up form Sony and Microsoft is gravy.
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