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California man sues Apple CEO Tim Cook over automatic iOS 7 update - Page 2

post #41 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Apple really shouldn't auto download iOS 7. I was holding off installing it on my phone, but now it is already on the phone waiting to be installed. By the time I want it, there will probably be a new point update which will also need to be downloaded. To make matters worse is that it used up a gig of my data plan because it thought it had wifi when actually it was my cellular hot spot. That right there cost $10 plus it is using up another gig of my storage space, not that big of a deal since I have a 64GB model but still they just should not do that without your permission. Would I sue over it? - hell no.

I agree. My home internet is an air card connected to a Cradlepoint router. I have no other option other than satellite. I have to plan all upgrades to fit within my monthly 5GB data allowance. I should sue to get my $10 overage back, which coincidentally occurred the same month as the release. Hmmm.

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post #42 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I don't understand the hot spot situation. Why would you tether your phone to a hotspot while your phone itself could either connect over cellular or WiFi?

Phone 5 is locked and in an international roaming area. The wifi hot spot is unlocked and has a local sim. I have a local unlocked iPhone 4 for calling locally and I use Skype for long distance, international calling. There is no cable service for broadband where I am so all my data comes through the cellular wifi hot spot.

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post #43 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Just to be clear (I downloaded the beta, and haven't had any inclination to downgrade), but does Apple force an upgrade to iOS7 and prevent downgrading to iOS6?

 

Given that there are "adoption rates" published, the former seems (to me) unlikely, and Apple have never previously blocked the latter, so I don't see what grounds this guy has.

 

If he doesn't like iOS7, just download iOS6 from any number of websites, and revert.  Sure, it requires a little bit of savvy, and it'd be helpful if Apple themselves supported it, but it's hardly a major obstacle requiring legal representation.

 

Bit weird.

 

Repeat after me: it is NO LONGER possible. Unless you are a jailbreaker, and even that is a stretch.

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post #44 of 113
The guy should not have used Tim Cook. Mistake #1. He should have sued Apple.

Also, mistake number 2 is that in most (all?) states, small claims court can only be used to sue for actual damages / monetary claims. He is using for $50 (us filing fees etc I assume) but he is also using for removal of the file, which, in my experience, is not doable through small claims court. And he has to show that he has incurred $50 in actual costs/damages to get the $50.

Of course, Tim Cook or maybe a representative has to show up or risk automatic judgement against him.
post #45 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You could get $50 in iTunes Store credit by contacting Apple customer service. Suing Tim Cook is a rather funny way to lose in small claims court, just because Apple can vastly outspend him on legal fees, discovery, court petitions, etc.


You don't understand how small claims court works, do you?

post #46 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

Repeat after me: it is NO LONGER possible. Unless you are a jailbreaker, and even that is a stretch.

Fair enough.  Unnecessary tone.

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post #47 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch99 View Post

As an. apple loyalist for since 1985, I can tell you I absolutely DESPISE, HATE, CANNTOT EFFIN STAND how Apple stopped us from downgrading.

I buy a new iDevice, want to try the latest OS, maybe it slows down my device ( like my g/s iPad 1 running 5.1.1 ) and it is slow as crahp and I canot even type on it. Sothis IPad is beyond frustrating!


Why oh why do they do this?

I have to deal with jail breaking, Shsh, RedDnow and all that crap that is a pain.

APPLE END THIS FEATURE!,,, IT REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY SUCKS!
It p/os many huge supporters. And quit dumbing down the system for the lowest, most uneducated user. u s semi-power users are getting the shaft! I do not know Unix commands nor want to, that is why. I,be bought Macs for 28 years, geez!

Some suggestions:

1. Calm down. All caps don't help.
2. Never quote how long you've been Mac user. Nobody cares and it doesn't make your opinion worth more.
3. Misspelled words are the online equivalent of foaming at the mouth: more misspellings, more foaming.
4. Have you considered a Windows 7 phone? You won't be able to upgrade to Windows Phone 8, and then you can cry bloody murder about that.
5. If you're seriously still having "slow downs" take your iPhone or iPad to the Genius Bar. They will probably suggest that you do a complete backup/restore.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #48 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag View Post

The guy should not have used Tim Cook. Mistake #1. He should have sued Apple.

Also, mistake number 2 is that in most (all?) states, small claims court can only be used to sue for actual damages / monetary claims. He is using for $50 (us filing fees etc I assume) but he is also using for removal of the file, which, in my experience, is not doable through small claims court. And he has to show that he has incurred $50 in actual costs/damages to get the $50.

Of course, Tim Cook or maybe a representative has to show up or risk automatic judgement against him.

 

I am sure the small claims court can fix that procedural matter ex officio, on the basis of a presumed good faith claim against the company itself.

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post #49 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Fair enough.  Unnecessary tone.

 

No unnecessary tone intended - but it's just not possible in legit situations, that's all.

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post #50 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post
 


All hell would break loose if any other company downloaded a huge file that cannot be removed onto a customer's phone without their permission.

 

Surely the members here would be understanding if Samsung auto-downloaded a large file onto their users phones that took up 15% of memory and couldn't be removed.

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post #51 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch99 View Post

As an. apple loyalist for since 1985, I can tell you I absolutely DESPISE, HATE, CANNTOT EFFIN STAND how Apple stopped us from downgrading.

I buy a new iDevice, want to try the latest OS, maybe it slows down my device ( like my g/s iPad 1 running 5.1.1 ) and it is slow as crahp and I canot even type on it. Sothis IPad is beyond frustrating!


Why oh why do they do this?

I have to deal with jail breaking, Shsh, RedDnow and all that crap that is a pain.

APPLE END THIS FEATURE!,,, IT REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY SUCKS!
It p/os many huge supporters. And quit dumbing down the system for the lowest, most uneducated user. u s semi-power users are getting the shaft! I do not know Unix commands nor want to, that is why. I,be bought Macs for 28 years, geez!

In their defence, you were given 4 days to try it out and revert.
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post #52 of 113

Shouldn't this case have been filed in small claims court in Santa Clara since he's suing Tim Cook directly? In California, you have to file in the county where the defendant resides. There are some exceptions, but I don't believe this case is one of them. 

post #53 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodycurmudgeon View Post

Oh yeah, name Tim Cook as the defendant because every feature decision is 100% the decision of the CEO.

What a retard.

He may not make every decision but with all the privileges of leadership also comes all the responsibility. 

 

As CEO, the buck always stops with him. He gets the most credit when things go good and the most heat when things go bad. That's the role you take on when you're to top leader anywhere.

post #54 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post
 

Shouldn't this case have been filed in small claims court in Santa Clara since he's suing Tim Cook directly? In California, you have to file in the county where the defendant resides. There are some exceptions, but I don't believe this case is one of them. 

He's only asking for something like $50, which is small claims.  If he went through a civil trial, he'd have to get an attorney, which cost $$$ and he probably couldn't get one to take this case.  It's not a class action case, if it's only himself.  I think he should be suing Apple Inc. and then listing Tim Cook as the CEO.

 

It just looks like an inexpensive way to get some face time with Tim cook, he probably lost his bid for a cup of coffee, so this is the cheapest way to get some face time.

 

Plus in small claims, Apple can't have legal representation, which means technically, Tim has to show up personally.   I'm sure the Judge is going to be some incompetent individual when it comes to technical issues such as this.  I've found most judges to have little background in technical issues surrounding computer/software technology.

post #55 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post


If anyone knows a way to disable this feature, please reply.

My unrequested downloads seem to have been done over wi-fi when my devices were plugged in charging. I wonder if going into airplane mode before plugging in would prevent the os downloads.

Apple might make automatic os update downloads a settings option, since there seems to be a noticeable amount of discontent over this.
post #56 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post

If I were Tim Cook, I'd just send oj Simpson to kill this guy....Italian Mafia style....and be over it.

There, fixed that for ya!

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post #57 of 113
post #58 of 113

"Apple's disregard for customer preferences in relation to iOS7 is corporate thuggery. Steve Jobs was reportedly rough on company employees in pursuit of happy customers, but Tim Cook apparently cultivates a culture of contempt for customer satisfaction in pursuit of corporate profits."
 

As a former Apple At Home Advisor for iOS I can say nothing could be farther from the truth.  Apple is absolutely obsessed with maintaining happy customers - the same as they are obsessed with good design.

post #59 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

He's only asking for something like $50, which is small claims.  If he went through a civil trial, he'd have to get an attorney, which cost $$$ and he probably couldn't get one to take this case.  It's not a class action case, if it's only himself.  I think he should be suing Apple Inc. and then listing Tim Cook as the CEO.

 

It just looks like an inexpensive way to get some face time with Tim cook, he probably lost his bid for a cup of coffee, so this is the cheapest way to get some face time.

 

Plus in small claims, Apple can't have legal representation, which means technically, Tim has to show up personally.   I'm sure the Judge is going to be some incompetent individual when it comes to technical issues such as this.  I've found most judges to have little background in technical issues surrounding computer/software technology.

I know he filed a small claims case. This man filed it in the wrong court. This case will be thrown out. All Apple will do is contest and say it's filed in the wrong county. They won't even have to make an appearance. As I said in my post, since Tim Cook is listed as the defendant, the case was supposed to be filed in the Santa Clara County Small Claims Court, not in San Diego County. 

post #60 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

How odd. It has not automatically downloaded for me. I must have auto-update turned off via iTunes, because I can't seem to find a setting on the phone to toggle that option. It's just saying iOS 7.0.2 is available for download and requires 1.2GB of space. Also says to connect to wifi to download.

Not sure. I definitely did not request it and I did not participate in the developer preview. Perhaps the phone needs the right set of circumstances such as connected to power and WiFi. When iOS was first released I recall seeing the same message you reported but now it just says "Install" so I'm not sure exactly when it happened but my experience appears to align with the reported auto download scenario. 

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post #61 of 113

Unfortunately for the guy, if Apple fixes this issue he would have to download and install an update ;)

post #62 of 113

As silly as this lawsuit is, he does have a point: It would be nice to be able to install whatever version of iOS we want on our devices (as long as it is compatible). This is a major missing feature for app developers who currently have no way to test their apps on older versions of iOS once their devices have been upgraded. And no, most of us can't afford to own a version of every iOS device running every version of iOS.

post #63 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

He may not make every decision but with all the privileges of leadership also comes all the responsibility. 

As CEO, the buck always stops with him. He gets the most credit when things go good and the most heat when things go bad. That's the role you take on when you're to top leader anywhere.

You can go ahead an join the plaintiff in the handicapped lane. 1rolleyes.gif
post #64 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post
 

As silly as this lawsuit is, he does have a point: It would be nice to be able to install whatever version of iOS we want on our devices (as long as it is compatible). This is a major missing feature for app developers who currently have no way to test their apps on older versions of iOS once their devices have been upgraded. And no, most of us can't afford to own a version of every iOS device running every version of iOS.

iOS 7 runs like a dog on my daughter's iPhone 4. She would love to go back to iOS 6 and have a device that isn't frustrating to use.

 

There certainly is no excuse for stopping downgrades for wifi only devices such as the iPod touch or wifi only iPads. It becomes a little more problematic with cellular device due to baseband firmware but nothing insurmountable.

post #65 of 113
He's suing over something downloaded but not installed. HIs phone hasn't been bricked, he hasn't lost access to a vital app etc

there is a method for removing the file. erase the phone. it's an onboard setting. Doesn't update your iOS the way the computer does but you can still restore even a computer based backup.

And the biggest joke of this is that he is asking for a mere $50. come on, it costs that much to file at all. At least ask for $500 if not the whole $5000 you can in CA Small Claims Court

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(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #66 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I don't understand the hot spot situation. Why would you tether your phone to a hotspot while your phone itself could either connect over cellular or WiFi?
Phone 5 is locked and in an international roaming area. The wifi hot spot is unlocked and has a local sim. I have a local unlocked iPhone 4 for calling locally and I use Skype for long distance, international calling. There is no cable service for broadband where I am so all my data comes through the cellular wifi hot spot.

Ah, ok, gotcha. I have that here in Europe as well. Doesn't matter that my iPhone isn't locked in by a carrier as I still want to receive calls on my number everyone knows.

If memory serves me, you're the person living and or working in three different countries...
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post #67 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

How odd. It has not automatically downloaded for me. I must have auto-update turned off via iTunes, because I can't seem to find a setting on the phone to toggle that option. It's just saying iOS 7.0.2 is available for download and requires 1.2GB of space. Also says to connect to wifi to download.
Not sure. I definitely did not request it and I did not participate in the developer preview. Perhaps the phone needs the right set of circumstances such as connected to power and WiFi. When iOS was first released I recall seeing the same message you reported but now it just says "Install" so I'm not sure exactly when it happened but my experience appears to align with the reported auto download scenario. 

Same here. No dev preview installed previously. I upgraded when it came out, tried it, liked it. Then a week later I got a replacement phone from Apple (power button didn't always work) but that was a brand new phone and still had iOS6 on it. Since they're paying more for a new phone with 6 installed on second hand sites, I haven't upgraded and will sell it with 6.

Anyhow, the first couple of days it said download. Then one day it said install. I hadn't changed any settings, but wasn't bothered because it's a 64GB anyway.
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post #68 of 113
i cant belive this story is out there.. is weird it did not have the stock sell of 50 points becouse of it?
post #69 of 113

1. No software, especially entire OS's, should auto-download onto a phone, without gaining explicit permission of the owner first.  I did not grant permission until recently, and all went smoothly. That said, since it was mstone claiming above to have had an unwanted download, I tend to believe him. Seems Apple has gone the way of Adobe and Firefox with the auto-downloads. Glad I escaped, since I too am on a limited data plan.

 

2. Auto-downloads are almost as annoying as the auto-play videos plaguing another Mac-related site.

 

3. At least the plaintiff in the story sued Tim Cook, instead of shutting the entire government down over his crackpot claims.

post #70 of 113
Are you sure that the surname is not "Menace" ?
We have a couple of those people here in GB and I thought it could be family%u2026..
post #71 of 113
Not sure the guy will lose. MY g/f had a 4S and she loved it, her son bought it for her. All of a sudden, a short while ago she got a message, to wit, in effect: "Do you want to upgrade?" She hit NO. It loaded the upgrade anyway.... Now that was just plain NOT NICE. We had to eventually take it to Verizon where someone told he "someone was working on it." I was lucky I knew one of the guys at VZ and he got ride of much of the nonsense that was causing trouble but only have 4 tries! But she did lose her apps! She asked me, a fervent Apple type, "Why did they disregard my answer?" I have no idea.

It's easy to criticize this guy in CA for going after Cook (they need an "attackable ombudsman!") but I remember the frustration Carol had... she finally got angry cuz she felt somebody didn't do enough testing and secondly, asked a question the answer to which, they ignored,
post #72 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

He may not make every decision but with all the privileges of leadership also comes all the responsibility. 

As CEO, the buck always stops with him. He gets the most credit when things go good and the most heat when things go bad. That's the role you take on when you're to top leader anywhere.

Wrong. The whole point of a corporation is that it is a separate entity which is legally distinct from the people who comprise it. If this were a case of clear negligence that caused real damages, that would be one thing, but this is just some joe blow who isn't happy with the way his apple product is working. His fight is with Apple Inc. I would be shocked if this case weren't immediately thrown out.
post #73 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfozz View Post

Not sure the guy will lose. MY g/f had a 4S and she loved it, her son bought it for her. All of a sudden, a short while ago she got a message, to wit, in effect: "Do you want to upgrade?" She hit NO. It loaded the upgrade anyway.... Now that was just plain NOT NICE. We had to eventually take it to Verizon where someone told he "someone was working on it." I was lucky I knew one of the guys at VZ and he got ride of much of the nonsense that was causing trouble but only have 4 tries! But she did lose her apps! She asked me, a fervent Apple type, "Why did they disregard my answer?" I have no idea.

It's easy to criticize this guy in CA for going after Cook (they need an "attackable ombudsman!") but I remember the frustration Carol had... she finally got angry cuz she felt somebody didn't do enough testing and secondly, asked a question the answer to which, they ignored,

 

This post totally needs some sad violin music playing in the background while being read in an overly dramatic tone.

"Proof is irrelevant" - Solipsism
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"Proof is irrelevant" - Solipsism
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post #74 of 113

My system always simply notified me there was an upgrade available and did I want to download and install it?

 

Was that due to a legacy setting from somewhere along my 3Gs, 4, 4s, 5 lineage?

post #75 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfozz View Post

Not sure the guy will lose. [blah blah blah]

Did you have some point you were trying to make, or what?
post #76 of 113
"Apple's disregard for customer preferences...". I agree with this. It didn't used to be this way, but it's been slowly getting worse. At first, it was the small things slowly changing. iOS 7 is a huge pile of disregard for function and customer preferences.

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post #77 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfozz View Post

Not sure the guy will lose. MY g/f had a 4S and she loved it, her son bought it for her. All of a sudden, a short while ago she got a message, to wit, in effect: "Do you want to upgrade?" She hit NO. It loaded the upgrade anyway.... Now that was just plain NOT NICE. We had to eventually take it to Verizon where someone told he "someone was working on it." I was lucky I knew one of the guys at VZ and he got ride of much of the nonsense that was causing trouble but only have 4 tries! But she did lose her apps! She asked me, a fervent Apple type, "Why did they disregard my answer?" I have no idea.

It's easy to criticize this guy in CA for going after Cook (they need an "attackable ombudsman!") but I remember the frustration Carol had... she finally got angry cuz she felt somebody didn't do enough testing and secondly, asked a question the answer to which, they ignored,

She couldn't "lose her apps" since previous purchases are always available from the APPLE APP store, or, for that matter, from her sync'd computer. Take it to an Apple store's help bar and they'll easily put them all back if she can't figure it out: it's within the "app store" from her phone as one place. I just looked and I see a list of all the apps purchased on my account, both ones "not on this phone" and ALL.

 

IIRC there is no "no" option for those notifications, just a button to hit if you decide to trigger the action.

post #78 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
 
Ah, ok, gotcha. I have that here in Europe as well. Doesn't matter that my iPhone isn't locked in by a carrier as I still want to receive calls on my number everyone knows.

I do that too just turn off data roaming

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post #79 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

I know he filed a small claims case. This man filed it in the wrong court. This case will be thrown out. All Apple will do is contest and say it's filed in the wrong county. They won't even have to make an appearance. As I said in my post, since Tim Cook is listed as the defendant, the case was supposed to be filed in the Santa Clara County Small Claims Court, not in San Diego County. 

Interesting. In the small claims I have been involved in in two other states (not California), you could file either in your own locale or that of the defendant. It was your choice. Since all 4 cases I've been involved with involved out if state corporations, I files in my home jurisdiction. All 4 settled, though one went to a hearing, which was adjourned so that the actual lawyer for the company who made me an offer that they did not abide by could be fetched from Texas to New Hampshire. At that point they were ready to settle.
post #80 of 113
It's just letting you know if you wish to download it you will need that amount of space. I got the same message but my usage storage has remained the same.
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