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Apple profiles free iWork, iLife apps with iOS 7-style icons, depicts free Garage Band with IAP [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 81
The iPhoto icon makes me think of a postcard more than a photograph. The palm tree is iconic of vacations not photographs. Unless they are trying to suggest all your photos in iPhoto are vacation photos?
post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

I'll mourn the day OSX is iOS-7inzed.

Some mourning on your side... some cheering on my side.... 

then we continue doing business as usual.

My guess is, that I will be a little better off on my side.

:smokey:

post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

And underestimate free stuff when it comes to Google.

Right you are ... people need to realize nothing on from Google is truly free ... it all comes with big hooks attached, if invisible ones.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Right you are ... people need to realize nothing on from Google is truly free ... it all comes with big hooks attached, if invisible ones.

Sure, but we're not talking about a standalone free product or even one that makes you the product, like with nearly everything Google offers, but a way to help facilitate more HW sales and congeal an OS like it is with iOS which makes it cheaper and better for developers which in turn makes it better for consumers.

I'm sure there are some people that think that OS X has taken a dive since they dropped the price from $129 but I think it's gotten much better. Each major update is effectively changing less but they are updating each and every year.

Leopard (and earlier)
$129 for Single User
$199 for Family Pack
$499 for Server

Snow Leopard
$29 for Single User
$49 for Family Pack
$499 for Server

Lion
$29.99 for Mac App Store*
$69 for USB Thumb Drive
$49.99 for Server

Mountain Lion
$19.99 for Mac App Store*
$19.99 for Server

Mavericks
$XX.XX for Mac App Store*
$XX.XX for Server


* Effectively an unlimited Family Pack
post #45 of 81

Good point when it comes to the phone.  But most people access the time from a wristwatch (unless they are actually sitting at a computer screen).  Most people wear a wristwatch in preference to pulling out their phone to access time.  And these same "most people" need a quick, though approximate, answer to the question, "What time is it?"

 

You are correct though, few people will look at the little clock on their home screen to access the time.

SkyKing
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SkyKing
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post #46 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


Could you imagine OSX and iWork being free? That'd be interesting to say the least.

I'd much rather some solid improvements.

 

Keynote could be the defining standard in presentations. It would be absolutely a knock-out if they could allow variables to be passed to Quartz Composer. Then people could develop all sorts of real time effects and plugins.

 

"FREE" must be paid for in some manner. Either they would open source it to a community (and then those people get PAID as consultants to keep things "FREE"), or they end up shifting the costs to other costs of entry  like accessing or advertising.

 

Making Garageband FREE and then charging for instruments and libraries makes a lot of sense from a marketing standpoint. There are already companies that make money creating libraries -- they'd probably start adapting these to IAP for Garageband.

 

Even more brilliant would be some upgrade and compatibility path from Garageband to Logic Pro. With interchangeable libraries.

 

 

So my vote would be "free" Garageband and "Free" web accessible iWork -- and "pay to run on standalone on desktop" for iWork and pay for premium Libraries and content for Garageband. Which makes it more cross platform and accessible, but still maintains a revenue model so they can upgrade and support. Too much "FREE" stuff and you get what you pay for...

post #47 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

Not a smoking gun but certainly an indication that Mac OS X could become free as a way of saving Apple money.

 


???
How is Apple going to save money by giving away OS X?
post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

How is Apple going to save money by giving away OS X?

I've already explained the very simple methods in which offering a product that directly costs the customer less can result increased profits. If you don't think that is possible then you are saying that Apple offering OS X for more than $100 less than it used to and offering iOS for iPod Touch and iCloud over MobileMe for free in no way benefits their bottom line by increasing HW sales. You are therefore claim Apple is being altruistic when they lower a price which I assure you is not the case.
post #49 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post



I've already explained the very simple methods in which offering a product that directly costs the customer less can result increased profits. If you don't think that is possible then you are saying that Apple offering OS X for more than $100 less than it used to and offering iOS for iPod Touch and iCloud over MobileMe for free in no way benefits their bottom line by increasing HW sales. You are therefore claim Apple is being altruistic when they lower a price which I assure you is not the case.

 


You said Apple would save money. Increasing profit or making more is not saving money.
Quote:
You are therefore claim Apple is being altruistic
I didn't claim anything.
Quote:
Mac OS X could become free as a way of saving Apple money
Quote:
where offering OS X for free could save Apple money (read: make them more money) than selling it,
read: making more money is not saving money
Again I ask...
How is Apple going to save money (read: lower their costs) by giving away OS X?
Besides, $20 is pretty much giving it away. I seriously doubt lowering that cost, would increase the # of people upgrading by any substantial number.
And if you get a new computer, the OS is included, so installing a new OS for free would not drive hardware sales.
If their current computer could not run the new OS, they would need to get new hardware (which includes the OS so they wouldn't care about the price of the OS upgrade).
Edited by Chris_CA - 10/21/13 at 10:48am
post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

You said Apple would save money. Increasing profit or making more is not saving money.

save - keep and store up (something, esp. money) for future use. As previously noted, I choose save over profit for a very specific reason. Getting more people on the same version of the OS saves them from spending money in support areas (cost savings) as well as incurs increases sales (profits) from the value added of lower cost OS for the reasonable life of the product.

Quote:
How is Apple going to save money (read: lower their costs) by giving away OS X?

How many times do I need to spell it out? If you aren't going to read or understand basic economics the first few times it's presented then how is it being stated yet again going to help you?
post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Besides, $20 is pretty much giving it away. I seriously doubt lowering that cost, would increase the # of people upgrading by any substantial number.
And if you get a new computer, the OS is included, so installing a new OS for free would not drive hardware sales.
If their current computer could not run the new OS, they would need to get new hardware (which includes the OS so they wouldn't care about the price of the OS upgrade).

If $20 is "pretty much giving it away" (your words) and it's $109 less than it was a few years ago then you're claiming Apple is losing $109 of pure profit on every Mac or do you think there is a financial benefit to offering OS X at a "pretty much giving it away" price over these last few years?

Ask yourself why Apple would alter the iPod and Apple TV accounting methods to offer updates for free when they previously charged for iPod Touch updates Ask yourself why iWork and iLife apps are now going to be free for new devices. Ask yourself why iCloud is free when before they charged for MobileMe and .Mac. If you can't see the intrinsic benefits already outlines above then I don't know what to tell you.
post #52 of 81
Quote:
save - keep and store up (something, esp. money) for future use
Since it costs money to develop & distribute, how are they "keeping and storing" money?
In fact while they may gain sales (doubtful, since OS upgrades must be installed on already purchased hardware) they lose money specifically on OS development if they do not sell it, even of minimal cost.
They aren't "saving" money by giving it away for free, no matter what you call it.
Quote:
I choose save over profit for a very specific reason. Getting more people on the same version of the OS saves them from spending money in support areas as well as incurs increases sales from the value added of lower cost OS for the reasonable life of the product.
What sales are they increasing? The user is installing a free OS on an already purchased computer...
Quote:
How many times do I need to spell it out?
At least once would be nice.
How is Apple going to [save money (read: lower their costs) by giving away OS X?
post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

How is Apple going to [save money (read: lower their costs) by giving away OS X?

What is this, the 5th or 6th time?

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160264/apple-profiles-free-iwork-ilife-apps-with-ios-7-style-icons-depicts-free-garage-band-with-iap-u#post_2420718
Edited by akqies - 10/21/13 at 11:21am
post #54 of 81
Originally Posted by akqies View Post
What is this, the 5th or 6th time?

 

As long as they don’t artificially limit hardware to three OS’, forcing you to buy new if you want anything beyond it.

 

My Mac Pro’s four going on five OS’, and hopefully it will work with 10.10.

post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Since it costs money to develop & distribute, how are they "keeping and storing" money?
In fact while they may gain sales (doubtful, since OS upgrades must be installed on already purchased hardware) they lose money specifically on OS development if they do not sell it, even of minimal cost.

You still haven't explained why you think there was no financial benefit for lowering the cost of the OS X by over $100. You still haven't explained why there was no financial benefit to making iOS for iPod Touch free of charge. You still haven't explained why would even make iOS for the iPhone free of charge since you see no financial benefit to it being free. You still haven't explained why iCloud is free when MobileMe and .Mac cost money. You still haevn't explained why they would make iWork and iLife apps free when they were already, as you put it, "pretty much giving it away."
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

As long as they don’t artificially limit hardware to three OS’, forcing you to buy new if you want anything beyond it.

My Mac Pro’s four going on five OS’, and hopefully it will work with 10.10.

These yearly updates seem to have been good for the Mac Pro. Waiting 3 years between a major OS update just felt limiting in comparison.
post #57 of 81

Another thing I just noticed...

 

The new GarageBand icon states "...record up to 32 tracks...", which would definitely be new for iOS.

 

If this instead refers to the desktop version, I've never tried to record that many tracks before.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #58 of 81
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
Another thing I just noticed... The GarageBand icon mentions, "...record up to 32 tracks...", which would definitely be new for iOS. If this instead refers to the desktop version, I've never tried to use that many tracks to record.

 

Desktop does 64 already, I think. I just hope the OS X iLife update makes it 64-bit. I’m sick of having GarageBand crash when I’m working with a 4GB+ file.

post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

One thing about the new iOS 7 icons: they’re not designed to be mesmerizingly detailed with beautiful intricate details. They’re designed to function as icons. 

The purpose of an icon is not to be a beautiful canvas for a work of art that captures the attention of your eye and holds on to it. It is to provide a readily apparent "iconic" representation that allows you to rapidly distinguish between them.

Except that the iOS 7 icons don't do that. They all use the same colors and shape styles, so there's very little differentiation.
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky King View Post

You probably would not.  But the majority of the world conceptualizes analog time more quickly (even though digital is more accurate).  That's why most watches are analog.

I'm an exception. I cannot conceptualize analog time clocks with any amount of speed and accuracy. I understand how they work but my neurology has problems seeing it as an instant symbol.

However: It's not true at all that they're EASIER or more efficient than digital for anyone.
post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

You do not speak for humanity, Mr. Airplane Pilot. You're making it clear that you're missing a piece of brain hardware that Sir Jony's got.

And you're making it clear that you know nothing about human-machine interfacing or readability, and that you have some kind of inappropriate reverence for Ive, despite the clear fact (to those of us not blinded by glitz and glam) that he has no idea what the hell he's doing with interface design.
post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky King View Post

Good point when it comes to the phone.  But most people access the time from a wristwatch (unless they are actually sitting at a computer screen).  Most people wear a wristwatch in preference to pulling out their phone to access time.  And these same "most people" need a quick, though approximate, answer to the question, "What time is it?"

You are correct though, few people will look at the little clock on their home screen to access the time.

Um, I don't see or know many people who wear watches. Myself and my friends use our iPhones. I can't think of the last person I saw wearing a watch, but I'm not seeking it out. I also do not like the feeling of watches strapped to my arm. Clothing is enough physical constraint.
post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

Even more brilliant would be some upgrade and compatibility path from Garageband to Logic Pro. With interchangeable libraries.

That is already the case. You can open all GarageBand projects in Logic. Logic has access to GarageBand's sounds as a consequence.
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, it’s official. I hate Pages’ new icon. And Keynote’s bland. Even Numbers’ icon showed just how different it was from every other spreadsheet application available. Now? Pheh.


Hopefully they keep them the same on OS X. Not that it matters; I’d just change them back manually. 1tongue.gif
i hate all the redesign, but these icons do look odd so the redesign on IOS only is ok at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeu26 View Post

I would really like this news if they didn't make my 5s blue screen. 
I figure any update will remove that since apple is likely now testing with iPhone 5S, this does seem like IOS is at its worst so far, maybe IOS 8 next year will remove the new problems.
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post

I'm an exception. I cannot conceptualize analog time clocks with any amount of speed and accuracy. I understand how they work but my neurology has problems seeing it as an instant symbol.

However: It's not true at all that they're EASIER or more efficient than digital for anyone.

Same with me. I've had difficulty telling time with analog clocks since childhood.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post



You still haven't explained why you think there was no financial benefit for lowering the cost of the OS X by over $100. You still haven't explained why there was no financial benefit to making iOS for iPod Touch free of charge. You still haven't explained why would even make iOS for the iPhone free of charge since you see no financial benefit to it being free. You still haven't explained why iCloud is free when MobileMe and .Mac cost money.

 


Why would I explain any of that? Nothing to do with anything I posted.
You need to explain how giving Mac OS for free saves Apple some $$.
Quote:
You still haevn't explained why they would make iWork and iLife apps free when they were already, as you put it, "pretty much giving it away."
You seem to be reading from a different thread.
I never mentioned iLife/iWork. You brought up all this other stuff after you claimed, "Mac OS X could become free as a way of saving Apple money" (and never answering how).
How does Apple (or anyone) save money (not just earn more on other products) by giving stuff away?
post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Why would I explain any of that? Nothing to do with anything I posted.
You need to explain how giving Mac OS for free saves Apple some $$.
You seem to be reading from a different thread.
I never mentioned iLife/iWork. You brought up all this other stuff after you claimed, "Mac OS X could become free as a way of saving Apple money" (and never answering how).
How does Apple (or anyone) save money (not just earn more on other products) by giving stuff away?

Everything I stated is all part of the same way Apple can make money and save money by lowering the price of a product. This has been explained to you ad nauseum and you have both ignored it and scurried your way around every question I've asked as to how the lowering of the price of anything can be financially beneficial. If you can't understand the benefits of getting more users on the same OS version then there really is no hope for you.
post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post



Everything I stated is all part of the same way Apple can make money and save money by lowering the price of a product..

 


Earning $$$ on sales of other products ≠ Saving $$$ on spending.
Quote:
This has been explained to you ad nauseum
Posting irrelevant info three times (and still not answering my one line question) is not "ad nauseum" by any stretch of the imagination...

Profit elsewhere ≠ saving
Saving = not spending
post #69 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Earning $$$ on sales of other products ≠ Saving $$$ on spending.

Reducing costs SAVES MONEY. You keep arguing against that simple fact and you're simply dead wrong.
post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post



Reducing costs SAVES MONEY. You keep arguing against that simple fact and you're simply dead wrong.

 


So giving OS X away for free reduces support costs because they have to support less people on the old system,?
Okay. It could.
But it would still reduce support costs if they charged $20 for it AND they would get something of a return on it.
Quote:
Reducing costs SAVES MONEY. You keep arguing against that simple fact and you're simply dead wrong.
I never posted anything suggesting this.
post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

So giving OS X away for free reduces support costs because they have to support less people on the old system,?
Okay. It could.
But it would still reduce support costs if they charged $20 for it AND they would get something of a return on it.

Which is exactly what I said and exactly what you ignored. In fact, you said that at $20 it's practically being given away already. I asked you repeatedly why you you thought Apple received no financial benefit from lowering the price by over $100 from just a few years ago. You couldn't answer it even though I had already answered it before you posted.

One last time I'll ask you: Why would Apple take SW and services that once cost money and make them free? You still claim that some direct revenue is better than no direct revenue in the grande scheme of things. How is it you can't see that there are ways Apple (or any company) end up with a net increase by offering something for less?

Your claim that it's not better for them (note you wrote that something is better than nothing even again in this post I am quoting) means you believe Apple does not benefit overall by iCloud, iOS, iWork and iLife having no direct cost for the consumer.
Quote:
I never posted anything suggesting this.

Every time you claimed that it's not true that reducing costs saved money you did.


So to reiterate my original comment: At some point, just like with each lowering of the cost of OS X it could make financial sense for Apple to offer OS X for free.
post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post


Um, I don't see or know many people who wear watches. Myself and my friends use our iPhones. I can't think of the last person I saw wearing a watch, but I'm not seeking it out. I also do not like the feeling of watches strapped to my arm. Clothing is enough physical constraint.

Just curious- how old are you and where do you live?  That might shine more light on your anecdote.  I'm in the Dallas area- and in the professional realm- 30 years old.  I wear a watch- although I never did 6+ years ago- as do most of my counterparts at the higher end restaurants, etc.  But these are only used as fashion pieces and you rarely see phones on the table.

 

I often get compliments on my watches from females.  Most of the time when I'm just wearing a casual every day white-faced $80 fossil watch- not even my nice ones. So it's definitely noticed.

2014 27" Retina iMac i5, 2012 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air 2, iPad Mini 2, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2014 27" Retina iMac i5, 2012 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air 2, iPad Mini 2, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Just curious- how old are you and where do you live?  That might shine more light on your anecdote.  I'm in the Dallas area- and in the professional realm- 30 years old.  I wear a watch- although I never did 6+ years ago- as do most of my counterparts at the higher end restaurants, etc.  But these are only used as fashion pieces and you rarely see phones on the table.

I often get compliments on my watches from females.  Most of the time when I'm just wearing a casual every day white-faced $80 fossil watch- not even my nice ones. So it's definitely noticed.

Ever since I got my iPhone I stopped wearing a watch also. I never liked watches anyway, since I'd inevitably get caught on something (shirt, cord, backpack, etc.).

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #74 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Ever since I got my iPhone I stopped wearing a watch also. I never liked watches anyway, since I'd inevitably get caught on something (shirt, cord, backpack, etc.).

Me too, but I stopped wearing a watch as soon as I got a cellphone. However that's because a cell phone had the same functions that a watch had. This is not what is meant when people talk about an iWatch.

So it's been about 20 years since I've worn a watch and yet I have been very, very interested in wearable electronics. None of them had the minimum feature set I wanted until the Fitbit Force was announced a couple weeks ago. I pre-ordered it; it should ship in a week or so, which give me enough time to cancel it if Apple has their own to announce today. I love the idea that my steps are counted and my sleep efficiency s measured. I wish t did my pulse but MotionX 24/7 does that with the iPhone camera and flash with enough convenience and accuracy that I can live without it for now.
post #75 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

One last time I'll ask you: Why would Apple take SW and services that once cost money and make them free?
So they can make more money elsewhere.
Their costs are not lowered.
Quote:
How is it you can't see that there are ways Apple (or any company) end up with a net increase by offering something for less?
I can see how it would be a gain. But they spend the same amount, not less, which you claimed.
Quote:
Your claim that it's not better for them (note you wrote that something is better than nothing even again in this post I am quoting) means you believe Apple does not benefit overall by iCloud, iOS, iWork and iLife having no direct cost for the consumer.
Is English not your native language and you are using some awkward translation tool?
Selling more product does not mean they spend less (save money). It simply means they earn more than they would have.
Quote:
So to reiterate my original comment: At some point, just like with each lowering of the cost of OS X it could make financial sense for Apple to offer OS X for free.
I totally agree.
They will spend the same amount (no savings) and have an increase in earnings.

No reply needed.
post #76 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

So they can make more money elsewhere.
Their costs are not lowered.

Sure they are. If they can get 95% of the client base on the same OS within a few months of it being released they can reduce costs in supporting older OSes. This means they don't have to train new employees on iOS 4 or 5 or 6 but instead train them on iOS 7. This reduces the training time significantly and makes it easier all around. Less time means less cost. Surely you've heard that time is money. This is a factual statement in business.

But surely someone will come in with an older iDevice that can't run iOS 7. So what then? The new guy isn't trained on it. Oh, well you get someone who has experience with it; a senior tech if it's an OS specific issue. But this means you don't have to train the majority of your employees for supporting an excessive number of older OSes. This also means that if someone comes in with an issue on their iPhone 4 running iOS 6 you can say they should upgrade to iOS 7 and they probably will but if it cost $19.99 (like the original IOS update for the iPod Touch did) you wouldn't be able to get as many people to update.

This is very simple economics and no way are you correct that support costs, 3rd-party development costs, and user costs are NOT lowered by iOS being free of charge.
post #77 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

This very simple economics and no way are you correct that support costs, 3rd-party development costs, and user costs are NOT lowered by iOS being free of charge.
Where did I state this?

And if you have "an older OS", most likely you are going to have to pay for support.
If you purchased 3 year AppleCare, this support is paid for.
If it's older and not covered, you are going to have to pay for support.
post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Where did I state this?

And if you have "an older OS", most likely you are going to have to pay for support.
If you purchased 3 year AppleCare, this support is paid for.
If it's older and not covered, you are going to have to pay for support.

Every comment you've made stated this.

BTW, AppleCare for an iDevice is 2 years and you can make a Genius appointment for issues that are NOT covered under AppleCare.
post #79 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post



Every comment you've made stated this.

No, I have not stated this. Please quit lying (and dragging on with inane/irrelevant comments).
Quote:
BTW, AppleCare for an iDevice is 2 years and you can make a Genius appointment for issues that are NOT covered under AppleCare.
Okay. Apple knows what the Genius bar is for.
It is a value added service, which makes them money because people are more satisfied with Apple, so they will buy Apple products. Same as free iLife/iWork/iCloud.
If Genius Bar had to take more than 20-30 minutes to fix a problem on something not under warranty, they would very likely charge you.
But then again, the initial look/see at your out of warranty product at the Genius Bar is free, so Apple is saving money, right?

If they really wanted to save money, they'd get rid of Genius Bar.
sheesh...
"Lighten up, Francis..."
Edited by Chris_CA - 10/22/13 at 8:54pm
post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

No, I have not stated this. Please quit lying (and dragging on with inane/irrelevant comments).
Okay. Apple knows what the Genius bar is for.
If they really wanted to save some money, they'd get rid of Genius Bar. However, it is a value added service, which makes them money because people are more satisfied with Apple.
And if they had to take more than 20-30 minutes to fix a problem on something not under warranty, they would very likely charge you.
But then again, the initial look/see at your out of warranty product at the Genius Bar is free, so Apple is saving money, right?

As I stated, Apple can PROFIT from selling more Macs from the added value and SAVE from not having support costs be as high. This is even more ridiculous today considering your assertion that making Mavericks free offers no benefit to Apple. You wanna dig your hole deeper because I can tell you I will not let your remarks slide?
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