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Apple reportedly testing iPad keyboard akin to Microsoft's Touch Cover - Page 2

post #41 of 114

With the surface if you are moving from a table to couch all you do is turn the keyboard around click it back on and fold it behind the tablet. The form factor does not change at all. But go ahead and keep bashing something you have yet to even use.

post #42 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

The difference here is that Microsoft had to sell a keyboard with their product to make it even close to usable. This is because of the form factor of Windows (typically landscape orientation) coupled with the aspect ratio of the screen. The keyboard would take up 2/3 of the screen. That and traditional Windows programs still require a mouse. Sure you could touch the screen, but using a keyboard and mouse would make the tablet a computer, which Windows was designed for.

 

The iPad can be easily used in any orientation including portrait. The difference is that the apps are made to be portrait. The whole OS seems to work better in that orientation. So no, you don't need a keyboard unless you're, you know, doing a lot of typing.

 

I think if Apple came out with a keyboard, it would be them admitting defeat of some sort.  The iPad ought to stand on it's on (no pun intended) as the only thing you need to use it.

 

The other issue with a keyboard cover is that it completely changes the form factor of the device. Now you have to use it on a table or some sort of flat surface. The iPad was originally designed to break that mindset and even Steve Jobs demoed it while sitting on a couch on-stage. That's the whole point. The Surface isn't a true tablet in the sense that you need a flat surface to use it effectively, whereas the iPad can be used in a standing position, sitting on a couch, etc. There in lies it's transformative power.

 

A keyboard cover would probably sell very well, but I think it would damage Apple's image and vision for the iPad more than it would be worth.

With the surface if you are moving from a table to couch all you do is turn the keyboard around click it back on and fold it behind the tablet. The form factor does not change at all. But go ahead and keep bashing something you have yet to even use.

post #43 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doxxic View Post

It occurs to me that it should be possible to make an iPad keyboard cover that can take *three* positions, instead of just two. The picture of two docked iPads gave me the idea.

These are the positions I mean - the third could be quite special I think.

1: in use as keyboard, screen standing straight. As in the picture
2: covering the front when iPad not in use.
3: folded against the back, so you basically hold your iPad as if there is no keyboard. The trick would be that the part that holds the screen up when in use, is attached to the screen exactly in the middle. The benefit would be that you can keep the cover attached while still holding it like an iPad without a cover.

A quick glance on the web makes it seem that this has not been done anywhere yet. Most notably, Microsoft's Surface can not do this. As far as I can see, with a Surface you have to lay down the keyboard somewhere in order to use it as a bare tablet computer, which would make it unnecessarily cumbersome to use like a tablet as well as like a laptop.

Am I right? Could this be a neat, patentable little invention making the iPad a lot more useable for everyday work situations than a Surface?

Could this be what "We still have a lot to cover" means?

Actually, the third thing that you mention would be special is already implemented in the Surface cover (at least if I am understanding you correctly).  The Surface touch cover folds around the back so you can use the Surface in "tablet" mode -- and when folded around the back in this way the keyboard is disabled so no keys are pressed, etc. Because it is so thin, it works really nicely without adding a lot of bulk (still feels like a tablet - unlike a lot of other solutions out there).

 

Actually, the Surface touch cover does all three of the things you mention in combination with the kickstand that's built in.

 

Again, I would love to see this for the iPad - and maybe Apple has something up their sleeves that takes it a step further and even improves the really great design of what Microsoft has done with the touch cover.  

post #44 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by houstondude999 View Post
 

With the surface if you are moving from a table to couch all you do is turn the keyboard around click it back on and fold it behind the tablet. The form factor does not change at all. But go ahead and keep bashing something you have yet to even use.

 

 

We all know you have to 'click' it.

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #45 of 114
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

 

No surprise really.

 

Indeed, Apple branched out into theater productions last year.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #46 of 114

Coming from the guy who saw this :

and still said that the phone was going to be called iPhone 6

that's funny

post #47 of 114
post #48 of 114
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post
Coming from the guy who saw this :

and still said that the phone was going to be called iPhone 6

that's funny

 

Maybe try again, huh? You’ll want to go back and find where I claimed that before stating it.

 

Pro tip: You can’t find it. I didn’t. Months before that I had gotten off the 6 kick. Come off it.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #49 of 114

Oh and it's actually this :

little = iPad Mini

post #50 of 114

Uhm no you didn't. You came out of it when that picture came out, not months. I'm 100% sure of that, that's something I can't forget.

 

It's not like it's a big deal now.

post #51 of 114
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post
Oh and it's actually this :

little = iPad Mini

 

Yes. That was the point I was making. 😩

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #52 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

The difference here is that Microsoft had to sell a keyboard with their product to make it even close to usable.

 

Not entirely true.  Considering the Surface is essentially a full PC with a full desktop OS, it is expected to handle the full range of desktop applications and uses.  For many of these, a physical keyboard is a necessity.  The iPad is inherently limited in it's capabilities (when compared to a desktop/notebook system) and so doesn't need a keyboard.

 

I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, they're simply two different devices.  Apple has reduced complexity to the point where a physical keyboard isn't needed, but they've done so by limiting capabilities - ease of use through limited functionality.  Microsoft created essentially a desktop computer in tablet form factor.  And while I'm no fan of Metro, it handles iPad level tasks with approximately the same ease of use (klunkiness and limited app selection aside).  So without a keyboard, the Surface will function about as well as an iPad, with a keyboard, it functions about as well as a full notebook computer.  Compromises were made, to be sure, but for many, those are compromises worth making if you need more functionality than is offered by iOS.

post #53 of 114

Then it's that !

They probably mean that they have a lot more to cover. It was just in front of our eyes! :p

post #54 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by huffcw View Post
 

Actually, the third thing that you mention would be special is already implemented in the Surface cover (at least if I am understanding you correctly).  The Surface touch cover folds around the back so you can use the Surface in "tablet" mode -- and when folded around the back in this way the keyboard is disabled so no keys are pressed, etc. Because it is so thin, it works really nicely without adding a lot of bulk (still feels like a tablet - unlike a lot of other solutions out there).

 

Actually, the Surface touch cover does all three of the things you mention in combination with the kickstand that's built in.

 

Again, I would love to see this for the iPad - and maybe Apple has something up their sleeves that takes it a step further and even improves the really great design of what Microsoft has done with the touch cover.  

Yes I think you understand me correctly. A closer look makes me understand how it probably works, but heck they could have communicated that a lot more clearly and attractively! (ok I'm not willing to dive that deep into MS products either)

 

Agree with your last part. Everything seems to point that way, doesn't it? It better be better than Surface, for Apple's reputation's sake :-)

post #55 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

The difference here is that Microsoft had to sell a keyboard with their product to make it even close to usable. This is because of the form factor of Windows (typically landscape orientation) coupled with the aspect ratio of the screen. The keyboard would take up 2/3 of the screen. That and traditional Windows programs still require a mouse. Sure you could touch the screen, but using a keyboard and mouse would make the tablet a computer, which Windows was designed for.

 

The iPad can be easily used in any orientation including portrait. The difference is that the apps are made to be portrait. The whole OS seems to work better in that orientation. So no, you don't need a keyboard unless you're, you know, doing a lot of typing.

 

I think if Apple came out with a keyboard, it would be them admitting defeat of some sort.  The iPad ought to stand on it's on (no pun intended) as the only thing you need to use it.

 

The other issue with a keyboard cover is that it completely changes the form factor of the device. Now you have to use it on a table or some sort of flat surface. The iPad was originally designed to break that mindset and even Steve Jobs demoed it while sitting on a couch on-stage. That's the whole point. The Surface isn't a true tablet in the sense that you need a flat surface to use it effectively, whereas the iPad can be used in a standing position, sitting on a couch, etc. There in lies it's transformative power.

 

A keyboard cover would probably sell very well, but I think it would damage Apple's image and vision for the iPad more than it would be worth.

I've got an Asus Vivo Tab RT that doesn't have a keyboard and I wouldn't say it's any less usable than my iPad. In some regards Win 8 is even more usable using just your thumbs than an iPad is because everything in in reach of a thumb so you don't even need to move your hands a lot of the time. A keyboard is completely optional for people that want to do a lot of typing or want to keep the screen space when typing.

 

I do agree though that Apple shouldn't release there own touch cover. It would change the perception of what an iPad is to much from really simple consumption / games device to something a lot more complex.

post #56 of 114

Apple iPad has a pretty big presence in the business space.  Apple tends to respond when professional users ask for something, one way or another.   I could see businesses pressuring Apple to come up with something like Microsoft's keyboard for the iPad.  Do I think it will happen?  I have no idea, but if this DOES happen (and that's a big but :)), it will be because businesses asked for it.  Not consumers.  I really don't think consumers are clamoring for this.

post #57 of 114
Originally Posted by rednival View Post
I could see businesses pressuring Apple to come up with something like Microsoft's keyboard for the iPad.

 

But why?

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #58 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

 

Would they put a lightning connector on the long side of the iPad?  Doubt you'd fit much of a battery or bluetooth connector in a thin keyboard cover, so they'd have to, right?  Would they move the connector, or would they have two, one on the bottom and one on the side?

 

The following is total absurdity that physics won't allow, but wouldn't it be fun if two connectors meant you could charge it twice as fast with two cables?

 

Heh heh.

 

Fun.

post #59 of 114
Can't Apple do anything original? They always copy MS. Even the iPad is a "toy" version of the successful WinTablets from 2 decades ago. /s
post #60 of 114

improving the screen-as-keyboard experience without leaving the dimensions of the ipad would be very helpful.  and preserving the duel orientations would be apple-like.

 

time for the re-emergence of the 'haptic rumor'.   i remember that it broke the day before a past ipad introduction. 

post #61 of 114
Well given a choice I'd personally go with the Smart-cover without keyboard.
post #62 of 114

APPLE EMPLOYEES IN "SECRET DESIGN LAB"

TESTING DIFFERENT SWEETENERS IN THEIR COFFEE

 

According to a source familiar with the group... UGH. Non-story, here, folks.

post #63 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

apple didn't invent any technology or even any presentation of technology…


so who invented Firewire and Quicktime then?

post #64 of 114
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

apple didn't invent any technology or even any presentation of technology… 

 

You… meant to /s that, right?

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #65 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeu26 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

This would be decent.

 

But it NEEDS TO WORK ON YOUR LAP, unlike the Surface.

He keeps tapping the space bar...

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post #66 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by diz_geek View Post

I could have sworn I remember reading something here on AI around the time the first original Surface came out with its keypad cover that Apple actually had just been awarded a patent on something very similar by the USPTO....

Apple did apply for a patent for a keyboard cover 2 years before MS came out with one and yes you did read it here.
post #67 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by huffcw View Post
 

Actually, the third thing that you mention would be special is already implemented in the Surface cover (at least if I am understanding you correctly).  The Surface touch cover folds around the back so you can use the Surface in "tablet" mode -- and when folded around the back in this way the keyboard is disabled so no keys are pressed, etc. Because it is so thin, it works really nicely without adding a lot of bulk (still feels like a tablet - unlike a lot of other solutions out there).

 

Actually, the Surface touch cover does all three of the things you mention in combination with the kickstand that's built in.

 

Again, I would love to see this for the iPad - and maybe Apple has something up their sleeves that takes it a step further and even improves the really great design of what Microsoft has done with the touch cover.  

Not a lot of people seem to have known this. I didn't. It says a lot about MSoft that the "tablet mode" keyboard cover position wasn't marketed and advertised properly. Instead, they showcased a very odd commercial. All I could remember happening was people dancing like fools and clicking the keyboard to the tablet.

 

The keyboard cover was not the problem; running a desktop ecosystem on a touch tablet was. They could still have a hit if they soon remove Windows mode from Surface hardware, leaving Windows only to run on X86 architected, desktop hardware. Like Apple, they could/should have two OSs: 1) Surface (nee´ Modern UI, for tablet apps and hardware) and 2) Windows (for desktop apps and hardware). I only recently saw the Surface hardware up close. The display and build quality are very nice.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #68 of 114

It makes sense. A big number of the iPads I see in the wild (coffee shops, planes, trains) are being used with a bluetooth keyboard. I work near a university and tons of students are at the local coffee shop typing up their papers on iPads instead of laptops. 

post #69 of 114
Just inviting people to accuse apple of copying Microsoft makes this a horrible idea.
post #70 of 114

ipad doesn't need a keyboard.  If i want a tablet with keyboard, i would just buy an MBA.  I wish MBA can have a detachable keyboard like the asus transformer.

post #71 of 114
Originally Posted by ipen View Post
I wish MBA can have a detachable keyboard like the asus transformer.

 

So… you wish it was the iPad. :lol:

 

Apple should never have stopped making the Keyboard Dock. It’d shut up all the outliers. 

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #72 of 114
The headline makes it sound like "Apple might be following Microsoft's lead" by testing a 'keyboard/cover similar to that of the Surface".

Well, how about saying Apple is testing a keyboard/cover similar to the one they sell at Apple Stores, made by Logitec? That's a keyboard, cover, and stand that snaps magnetically to the iPad, and has been around since long before the Surface was even announced. Actually, their most popular iteration provides a complete hardshell cover for the iPad as well. And it's about the same or LESS expensive than Microsoft's fancy cover.

Microsoft didn't 'innovate' the idea of a lightweight attachable keyboard/cover with the Surface, and Apple most certainly isn't "following" them, or doing much truly "akin" to anything Microsoft does.
post #73 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

The headline makes it sound like "Apple might be following Microsoft's lead" by testing a 'keyboard/cover similar to that of the Surface".

Well, how about saying Apple is testing a keyboard/cover similar to the one they sell at Apple Stores, made by Logitec? That's a keyboard, cover, and stand that snaps magnetically to the iPad, and has been around since long before the Surface was even announced. Actually, their most popular iteration provides a complete hardshell cover for the iPad as well. And it's about the same or LESS expensive than Microsoft's fancy cover.

Microsoft didn't 'innovate' the idea of a lightweight attachable keyboard/cover with the Surface, and Apple most certainly isn't "following" them, or doing much truly "akin" to anything Microsoft does.

I say give this one to MS. They have so little mindshare these days and the Surface is a market failure but the snapping keyboard cover is probably the most well known snapping keyboard cover thanks to their goofy commercials.
post #74 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Connell View Post
 

 

Not entirely true.  Considering the Surface is essentially a full PC with a full desktop OS, it is expected to handle the full range of desktop applications and uses.  For many of these, a physical keyboard is a necessity.  The iPad is inherently limited in it's capabilities (when compared to a desktop/notebook system) and so doesn't need a keyboard.

 

I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, they're simply two different devices.  Apple has reduced complexity to the point where a physical keyboard isn't needed, but they've done so by limiting capabilities - ease of use through limited functionality.  Microsoft created essentially a desktop computer in tablet form factor.  And while I'm no fan of Metro, it handles iPad level tasks with approximately the same ease of use (klunkiness and limited app selection aside).  So without a keyboard, the Surface will function about as well as an iPad, with a keyboard, it functions about as well as a full notebook computer.  Compromises were made, to be sure, but for many, those are compromises worth making if you need more functionality than is offered by iOS.

 

I believe it's actually the "Surface Pro" that is more comparable to a portable PC. The "Surface" runs RT, which is underpowered crap.

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post #75 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


I say give this one to MS. They have so little mindshare these days and the Surface is a market failure but the snapping keyboard cover is probably the most well known snapping keyboard cover thanks to their goofy commercials.

 

People may confuse Surface for KitKat bars thanks to all the snapping and try to eat them.

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post #76 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

People may confuse Surface for KitKat bars thanks to all the snapping and try to eat them.

So Google is also copying MS? 1tongue.gif


post #77 of 114
I have a vague memory that one of the things that MS licensed from Apple to use with the Surface was the keyboard/smart cover thing. Apple had looked at it, and patented it, but not implemented it. Then, when MS came to make the Surface, they actually licensed the cover design from Apple. I remember thinking this was unusual behaviour for MS, they'd usually just take stuff from Apple when they wanted it.

Of course, I fully expect that this, if it is true and not a delusion or fever dream of mine, will be completely ignored in any coverage should Apple produce a similar device.
post #78 of 114

We still have a lot more to cover ...

 

"We", "still", "have"

- Nothing hidden here.

 

"a lot"

- The parking lot at the new campus? It will be underground, hence covered.

 

"a lot more"

- Many more products? Kind of a boring hint, but we have seen that before.

- A larger iPad with "a lot more" real estate? I'd enjoy that.

 

"to cover"

- More products to cover? Pretty boring but, again, not unprecedented.

- A new type of smart cover with integrated keyboard? History suggests that, if Apple indeed introduces a cover/keyboard combo tomorrow, it will be unlike what we see from Microsoft or Logitech. 

 

post #79 of 114

MS Surface keyboard is useless if your device is bricked by the software update.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2056295/microsoft-releases-fix-for-surface-rt-slates-borked-by-windows-rt-8-1-update.html

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post #80 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Is that all Apple can do these days is to copy other companies?

/s

Cross-licensing. 1smile.gif
Apple and Microsoft have been partners since Steve and Bill buried the hatchet.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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