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Apple's new iPad mini with Retina display starts at $399, first-gen iPad mini drops to $299 - Page 5

post #161 of 214
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Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink.

Buy soap.

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post #162 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

 

LOL. Pretty happy to be wrong about the iPad mini. This is indeed a better update than I could have hoped for, and shows that Apple values the iPad mini as an equal to the iPad Air, by giving it basically the same specs. Quite possible the new mini outsells the air at these close feature sets.

 

This is a strange move as it will cannibalize the iPad Air like no other...but perhaps Apple thinks thats going to happen anyway, so might as well do it right.

 

I'm happy with the Nexus and Mini for small tablets (the only things Nexus really has over ipad, imho, is better screen quality and NFC, which I professionally use). I am getting the iPad Air as soon as order opens up...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Perfect price strategy IMO.

 

$329 for iPadMini Retina would hurt margins and really canibalize iPadAir

$399 is really close to iPadAir price.  I'll getting an iPadAir.

 

For those dummies who say the Nexus 7 is cheaper go to hell:

Android is a crap OS

Google is selling these at $0 profit

Don't forget the iPadMini screen is about 40% bigger because of the narrow aspect ratio of the Nexus

Nexus lagssssssssssss

I hate using wide screen tablets in Portrait mode

Plastic crap build quality.

ipad gives you AMAZING free software

 

I'm sorry but for $170 more I rather get a premium product instead of cheap plastic crap that will die in 2 years.  I guarantee that in two years you will get $100 more selling your used iPadMini over the Nexus7.  So basically you are only paying $50 more.

Nexus doesn't lag, the plastic is amazingly good and what you think of using portrait mode only matters to, well, you, my dear.

Google making $0 profit also makes the opposite point of yours : cheaper to buy since you're not paying for "profit". Just saying.

I run an iPad mini (which is soon going to be supplemented by an iPad Air...) but the Nexus is an amazing machine and you're making Apple users look bad when making that kind of trollish list.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #163 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
 

 

What a strange little man you are. I doubt you even own stock, and are obsessed with margins ( unlike us stock or options holders who only care about EPS, or stock price growth - which can happen if the stock anticipates future growth regardless of EPS). 

 

but there you are, probably writing from a tent or a hole in the ground, arguing the most important thing to you is Apple charges more and keeps it's margins. I have no idea why you care. Customers should be supporting lower prices, made up for with higher sales. Stock holders just want a good EPS, or dividends. As an options holder I want stock growth, which is more likely with market anticipation of higher sales than maintaining margins. 

 

The arguments are hysterical because the stakes are non-existent.

 

GTFO.  Its losers (options holders) that cause the stock to be manipulated in the first place.  Why don't you man up and buy actual shares instead of playing lotto? 

 

Margins is the #1 concern for Apple.  PERIOD.  That's why their stock got crushed last year (2nd reason to options manipulation).  They grew revenue nicely in 2012 but margins were depressed and cause EPS to fall.  The last two moves (5C pricing and iPadMini Retina) will do wonders to margins.  Margins are the life blood of Apple.  Without high margins they cannot pour huge cash into R&D, marketing, software, top rate employees, ect.  Once Apple becomes a low even mid margin company they will become a just another brand.

 

And yes I do own Apple SHARES.  Not FRIKEN options.  I don't hate on all options buyers since they can be used as a hedge or just as a fun lotto bet.  But don't be coming here tooting your horn that you deserve respect because you OWN Apple options.  You don't own sheet.  You own a lottery ticket.

 

I own 300 shares as of yesterday.  And before you rant and say I'm BS and a little man in a hole in the ground here is a pic of my holdings in Apple.  Now go research Apples financials the last 6 quarters and see how devestating lower iPad margins would be on the stock price.

post #164 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

 

Can I has your loot?

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post #165 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
 

 

I'm happy with the Nexus and Mini for small tablets (the only things Nexus really has over ipad, imho, is better screen quality and NFC, which I professionally use). I am getting the iPad Air as soon as order opens up...

 

Nexus doesn't lag, the plastic is amazingly good and what you think of using portrait mode only matters to, well, you, my dear.

Google making $0 profit also makes the opposite point of yours : cheaper to buy since you're not paying for "profit". Just saying.

I run an iPad mini (which is soon going to be supplemented by an iPad Air...) but the Nexus is an amazing machine and you're making Apple users look bad when making that kind of trollish list.

 

People were giving all type of credit to the Nexus7 last year.  Now what?  After one year in the actual world people know the truth.  The product sucks.  Constant crashes, massive battery life decreases, buggy apps, pieces falling off, ect.  Its just not high quality.  Bottom line proof is you can only sell your 12 month old Nexus7 for $25 on Gazelle.  While an iPadMini will get you a sweet $170.  So basically the difference is price is made up when you sell the device.  In fact it would cost less for iPadMini ($330-$170 = $160) vs Nexus7 ($200-$25 =$175).  So you spend more on the Nexus7 for a crappier experience.

 

And don't forget with the iPadmini you are getting a 40% larger screen.  You need to take that into account when comparing prices to the Nexus7.  You need to price it between the Nexus7 ($229) and Nexus10 ($399).   Thus a Nexus the same size as an iPadMini would be about $315.  So is the 'saving' $85 worth it?  Especially since you will get $150 more when you sell the mini?

 

And lets not talk about Nexus7 build quality.  Lets see how it stands up after 12 months.  People thought the first Nexus7 was built well until they started falling apart 6 months latter.  That's the thing with soft plastics, they break.

 

Nexus does lag.  All Android devices lag because of virtualization and also tests have proven the touch screen is much slower than iPad (there was an article about touch screen lag a few weeks ago).

 

And Google making $0 does matter.  Who do you think will offer better customer service?  A company that makes its profits and stakes its reputation on products (Apple) or a company that don't give a sheet but just wants you to use ANY PRODUCT as long as you use their services (Google).  Who do you think will phase out support first?  Or stop sending software updates?  For Google hardware don't mean sheet to them.  Its only a 'hobby' for them and could care less if people buy another brand as long as they use their services.

post #166 of 214
Originally Posted by dacloo View Post
Another typical Tallest Skil b*tch answer. Why add "it's not that difficult to understand"? Why are you being such an ***?

 

Guess you missed where that desire was fine, then, huh?

 
The poster may perfectly understand WHY but would really love to see multiuser.

 

Too bad. Apple isn’t doing it. Better stop whining about nothing, then.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 10/23/13 at 6:39am

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #167 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

 

Guess you missed where that desire was fine, then, huh?

 

Too bad. Apple isn’t doing it. Better stop whining about nothing, then.

Yeah, because Apple has NEVER added something after enough people "whined" about it. Please, don't feedback. /s

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #168 of 214

Multiuser is not a good idea for tablets.

Get your own tablet cheapskate.

 

Its as stupid as having multi user on a phone.  Adding multiple users will just cause more confusion and less efficentcy

post #169 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

People were giving all type of credit to the Nexus7 last year.  Now what?  After one year in the actual world people know the truth.  The product sucks.  Constant crashes, massive battery life decreases, buggy apps, pieces falling off, ect.  Its just not high quality.  Bottom line proof is you can only sell your 12 month old Nexus7 for $25 on Gazelle.  While an iPadMini will get you a sweet $170.  So basically the difference is price is made up when you sell the device.  In fact it would cost less for iPadMini ($330-$170 = $160) vs Nexus7 ($200-$25 =$175).  So you spend more on the Nexus7 for a crappier experience.

 

And don't forget with the iPadmini you are getting a 40% larger screen.  You need to take that into account when comparing prices to the Nexus7.  You need to price it between the Nexus7 ($229) and Nexus10 ($399).   Thus a Nexus the same size as an iPadMini would be about $315.  So is the 'saving' $85 worth it?  Especially since you will get $150 more when you sell the mini?

 

And lets not talk about Nexus7 build quality.  Lets see how it stands up after 12 months.  People thought the first Nexus7 was built well until they started falling apart 6 months latter.  That's the thing with soft plastics, they break.

 

Nexus does lag.  All Android devices lag because of virtualization and also tests have proven the touch screen is much slower than iPad (there was an article about touch screen lag a few weeks ago).

 

And Google making $0 does matter.  Who do you think will offer better customer service?  A company that makes its profits and stakes its reputation on products (Apple) or a company that don't give a sheet but just wants you to use ANY PRODUCT as long as you use their services (Google).  Who do you think will phase out support first?  Or stop sending software updates?  For Google hardware don't mean sheet to them.  Its only a 'hobby' for them and could care less if people buy another brand as long as they use their services.

Obviously, you don't care that people might have a different opinion. 

I offered counter arguments, you just ignore them and repeat yourself. 

I'll repeat myself too then: the Nexus plastic is good quality, the Nexus works perfectly here after a year of operation, and so does my iPad Mini. As for profit, yes it does matter, but my point was, it strengthen the opposite argument of yours, so you might want to leave it aside. But please, go ahead.

With that, I'm off to watch a Lynda.com video on my iMac and wonder if I would enjoy it better on an iPad Air in the couch.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #170 of 214
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
Yeah, because Apple has NEVER added something after enough people "whined" about it. Please, don't feedback. /s

 

Multiuser is as likely as Flash, frankly. It’s on the same level as thinking they’ll make an xMac or bring ODDs back.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #171 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
 

Obviously, you don't care that people might have a different opinion. 

I offered counter arguments, you just ignore them and repeat yourself. 

I'll repeat myself too then: the Nexus plastic is good quality, the Nexus works perfectly here after a year of operation, and so does my iPad Mini. As for profit, yes it does matter, but my point was, it strengthen the opposite argument of yours, so you might want to leave it aside. But please, go ahead.

With that, I'm off to watch a Lynda.com video on my iMac and wonder if I would enjoy it better on an iPad Air in the couch.

 

I've owned multiple Android devices for the past 2 years (phones and tablets) as part of my research for buying Apple stock.  My conclusion?  People either get Apple products or they don't.  Some people just don't get it and never will.  They rather tweak their device for hours, install custom programs to slow lag, turn off features, install virus software, ect.  Just to save a few bucks.  Good for them.  Maybe its their hobby.  What I want is a device that just WORKS.  I want a device I know will work for 2, 3, or even 5 years.  Not something that will fall into pieces after 12 months or will be running two generation old software after 12 months.  People either get it or they don't.

 

I'm sorry.  I'll go out of my way to bash a company like Google that releases crap hardware just to send you more advertisements.  I'll bash a company that has no vision for product advancement but simply wants cheap crap in as many hands as possible to pimp ads.  Where would the industry be without Apple?  Without the iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air, iPod?  You either get it or you don't.

post #172 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Multiuser is as likely as Flash, frankly. It’s on the same level as thinking they’ll make an xMac or bring ODDs back.

Yeah, I agree with you on this. It's just that your response felt a bit aggressive to anyone requesting a feature from Apple, in my opinion.

By the way, I hate video training. I'd rather use a book, but nobody seems to make interactive training books. Oh, wait.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #173 of 214
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 People either get Apple products or they don't.

People either get it or they don't. 

You either get it or you don't.

 

It's called "blind faith".

I'll keep buying whatever pleases me (and in the case of the Nexus, I got it from the company for the company's purposes, so I'm particularly happy of the cost-to-use ratio). You're welcome to buy whatever pleases you. I do wonder, though, if you have enough money to buy multiple Android devices as part of "research to buy Apple stock" (bad decision, given the fact it's been driven down by 'analysts' for at least a year, unless I'm told wrong), why you don't start some interesting business. You certainly seem the driven type...

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #174 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Margins is the #1 concern for Apple.  PERIOD.  That's why their stock got crushed last year (2nd reason to options manipulation).  They grew revenue nicely in 2012 but margins were depressed and cause EPS to fall.  The last two moves (5C pricing and iPadMini Retina) will do wonders to margins.  Margins are the life blood of Apple.  Without high margins they cannot pour huge cash into R&D, marketing, software, top rate employees, ect.  Once Apple becomes a low even mid margin company they will become a just another brand.

 

1. Apple's revenue growth has slowed considerably over the last year.

 

2. Are you saying that high margins are a pre-requisite for eps growth or are you saying that this is specific to Apple?

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post #175 of 214
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Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
 

 

It's called "blind faith".

I'll keep buying whatever pleases me (and in the case of the Nexus, I got it from the company for the company's purposes, so I'm particularly happy of the cost-to-use ratio). You're welcome to buy whatever pleases you. I do wonder, though, if you have enough money to buy multiple Android devices as part of "research to buy Apple stock" (bad decision, given the fact it's been driven down by 'analysts' for at least a year, unless I'm told wrong), why you don't start some interesting business. You certainly seem the driven type...

 

Blind faith is credulity. 

 

Apple has PROVEN and EARNED my trust.  iPod, iPad, iMac, Macbook, MacPro, iPhone.  How many great hardware products does Apple need to make to stop calling it 'blind faith'?  Call it what it is.  Apple has EARNED its reputation.

 

Now lets look at Google.  What have they proven hardware wise? FAILURE.

 

Google TV - FAILURE - they stopped all support of it after 2 years

Nexus Q - another failed TV hardware

Nexus7,10 - decent tab but nothing special.  Lots of software bugs and build quality sucks

Nexus 4 - blaw phone

MotoX - mid-range phone selling at high-range prices.  Cost as much as a 5S but its performance is worse than a 5C

 

As far as the stock price don't worry about it.  I did not buy at the $700's or $600's.  I don't throw down $150,000 at a whim.  I expect to hold this stock for 5 years or more.  At a 2.75% divdend yield its much better than a bond or bank interest while I wait for it to be priced fairly.

post #176 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

1. Apple's revenue growth has slowed considerably over the last year.

 

2. Are you saying that high margins are a pre-requisite for eps growth or are you saying that this is specific to Apple?

 

Jun2013 Quarter had basically zero revenue growth.

The 4 quarters before that averaged about 20% revenue growth.  I'm looking for 15-25% revenue growth.

 

For Apple gross margins need to be around 36%-40% in their current business model to grow EPS

post #177 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Multiuser is not a good idea for tablets.

 

Its as stupid as having multi user on a phone.  Adding multiple users will just cause more confusion and less efficentcy

There's little point supporting multiple users on a phone because phones are personal communication devices. On the other hand, tablets are commonly used as general purpose computers that supplant laptops and desktops entirely for many people. Why should sharing a tablet among family members be so different from sharing a laptop?


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 10/23/13 at 8:30am
post #178 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Jun2013 Quarter had basically zero revenue growth.

The 4 quarters before that averaged about 20% revenue growth.  I'm looking for 15-25% revenue growth.

 

For Apple gross margins need to be around 36%-40% in their current business model to grow EPS

 

That sounds like keeping the status quo to me.

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post #179 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

That sounds like keeping the status quo to me.

 

15-20% revenue growth for 5 years in a row is 100% revenue growth over that period.

 

Apple is priced at 3% revenue growth and 3% EPS growth. 

post #180 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

15-20% revenue growth for 5 years in a row is 100% revenue growth over that period.

 

Apple is priced at 3% revenue growth and 3% EPS growth. 

 

100% revenue growth over the next 5 years, while stupendous, is below the average of the previous 5... which is why I said it sounds like status quo.

 

Apple's rev growth over the 12 months from July 1, 2012 until June 30th, 2013 was 13.8%. 

 

Personally, I can see a great holiday quarter but without a popular new product line or a reduction in margins I see negative revenue growth coming in the future.

 

By the way.... at present it's priced higher than 3%... but I haven't sat down to figure it out precisely.


Edited by island hermit - 10/23/13 at 8:43am
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post #181 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Personally, I can see a great holiday quarter but without a popular new product line or a reduction in margins I see negative revenue growth coming in the future.

 

By the way.... at present it's priced higher than 3%... but I haven't sat down to figure it out precisely.

 

iWatch and iTV coming in 2014.  At least one of them.

 

Don't underestimate the growth in China.  Their high-middle class will number almost 800,000,000 in 5 years.  That's 4x bigger than the US middle class.

post #182 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

iWatch and iTV coming in 2014.  At least one of them.

 

Don't underestimate the growth in China.  Their high-middle class will number almost 800,000,000 in 5 years.  That's 4x bigger than the US middle class.

 

... and that underscores what I've been saying for a while. Analysts see a lot of wishing and hoping. Regardless of Apple's huge financial strength, regardless of strong quarters... there is the problem of declining revenues. The proof will be in the pudding if AAPL is to rise.

 

If someone isn't invested in Apple then this is of no concern at present. Apple is not going away tomorrow. For someone who is invested then it's of great concern.

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post #183 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

There's little point supporting multiple users on a phone because phones are personal communication devices. On the other hand, tablets are commonly used as general purpose computers that supplant laptops and desktops entirely for many people. Why should sharing a tablet among family members be so different from sharing a laptop?

 

Here's a few reasons:

 

- The average tablet is less than half the cost of the average laptop

- The average tablet has around 1/20th the storage capacity of the average laptop (a huge factor for supporting multi-user)

- The user interface for tablet software is designed to be much simpler than that of full-blown computers.  The more complexity you add (multiuser, advanced settings, etc), the more you destroy the benefit of tablets for most people.  This is the very reason why Apple was able to create a market for tablets where others had failed before -- simplicity.  Something the tech-head fandroids just don't seem to get because they only interact with other tech-heads, and they all want to just throw in every feature they can think of (and be willing to spend countless hours learning everything).  Sorry, but that's not something the vast majority of people want.


Edited by auxio - 10/23/13 at 10:44am
 
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post #184 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Here's a few reasons:

 

- The average tablet is less than half the cost of the average laptop

- The average tablet has around 1/20th the storage capacity of the average laptop (a huge factor for supporting multi-user)

- The user interface for tablet software is designed to be much simpler than that of full-blown computers.  The more complexity you add (multiuser, advanced settings, etc), the more you destroy the benefit of tablets for most people.  This is the very reason why Apple was able to create a market for tablets where others had failed before -- simplicity.  Something the tech-head fandroids just don't seem to get because they only interact with other tech-heads, and they all want to just throw in every feature they can think of (and be willing to spend countless hours learning everything).  Sorry, but that's not something the vast majority of people want.

 

Really?

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post #185 of 214
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

Really?

 

Yes.  I have a lot of experience in designing technology for use in situations where people have very little experience with (or interest in) technology.  Simple is king, and this is where the iPad has won with the general population.

 

Unfortunately, I also have experience trying to explain this to colleagues who have spent their whole lives learning all sorts of intricate details about technology, and can't understand why the rest of the world isn't like them.  Much like most of the Android fanatics I read posts from.

 

This has been repeated over and over again throughout personal computing history: the hobbyists in the 1970s who couldn't understand why someone would need all of the hardware components put together in a nice box where you just have to flip a switch to use it, the command-line power users who couldn't understand the need for a graphical user interface in the 1980s, and now the tablet users who think tablets need to be as complicated as PCs.  All of these people need to get out there and see technology in use by people outside of their circle (or internet discussion group): teachers, doctors, lawyers, artists, etc.

 
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post #186 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Yes.  I have a lot of experience in designing technology for use in situations where people have very little experience with (or interest in) technology.  Simple is king, and this is where the iPad has won with the general population.

 

<snip>... a bunch of other stuff... etc. etc.</snip>

 

 All of these people need to get out there and see technology in use by people outside of their circle (or internet discussion group): teachers, doctors, lawyers, artists, etc.

 

My point being...

 

Complex does not mean that it has to be visible to the end user.

 

Do you keep all your controls on the desktop?

 

Really?

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post #187 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

My point being...

 

Complex does not mean that it has to be visible to the end user.

 

Do you keep all your controls on the desktop?

 

Really?

 

Let's get back to the example of multi-user.  This requires a whole new layer of user interface.  A way to authenticate a user at any time: from the lock screen or switching while in mid-use.  Also a way to identify which user is currently "logged in" at any time.  It also requires a method to set up multiple accounts.  And what happens if a FaceTime (or similar) call comes in for another user account?  I could keep going with more and more intricate details like this as I think about it more, all of which add complexity to the user interface and the function of the device.

 

Look, it's the same as the world of PCs: for those who really need to control and do everything and/or want to tinker, there's Linux (or one of the BSD variants).  For those who just want to get a task related to their main interests (other than technology itself) done with as little complication as possible, there's OS X.  Same goes for Android vs Apple tablets.  Each one is "right" for the each different type of user, and it's just silly for one group to argue that the other group needs to be more like them.


Edited by auxio - 10/23/13 at 12:25pm
 
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post #188 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Perfect price strategy IMO.

 

$329 for iPadMini Retina would hurt margins and really canibalize iPadAir

$399 is really close to iPadAir price.  I'll getting an iPadAir.

 

For those dummies who say the Nexus 7 is cheaper go to hell:

Android is a crap OS

Google is selling these at $0 profit

Don't forget the iPadMini screen is about 40% bigger because of the narrow aspect ratio of the Nexus

Nexus lagssssssssssss

I hate using wide screen tablets in Portrait mode

Plastic crap build quality.

ipad gives you AMAZING free software

 

I'm sorry but for $170 more I rather get a premium product instead of cheap plastic crap that will die in 2 years.  I guarantee that in two years you will get $100 more selling your used iPadMini over the Nexus7.  So basically you are only paying $50 more.

There's irony in that Android (for next 5-10 yrs anyway) WILL be around in at least moderate force (i.e. a "win"), but looks like iOS is winning in usability/web use/etc.  What does that mean?  It  means that for all Google is investing in Android and "winning" in marketshare, its mobile search/ad is losing.  Google is known as a search/ad MACHINE!  This year and next year will prove that goog's machine is stagnating in mobile space.  This is big because mobile is gaining universal attention as the platform of choice (as opposed to desktop platform).

 

Look for Goog to make desperate moves in mobile, perhaps strong arming clients and/or making ad impressions super cheap.  When you see this, take it to mean that goog is admitting it is NOT indeed winning with Android.

post #189 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

... and that underscores what I've been saying for a while. Analysts see a lot of wishing and hoping. Regardless of Apple's huge financial strength, regardless of strong quarters... there is the problem of declining revenues. The proof will be in the pudding if AAPL is to rise.

 

If someone isn't invested in Apple then this is of no concern at present. Apple is not going away tomorrow. For someone who is invested then it's of great concern.


You and Sog bring up good points...EPS is a huge concern.  Don't look for margins to rise.  But look for market share to increase....it'll take time via iPhone/iPad and new products.  Maybe Sog's point is that Apple cannot afford to reduce GM (i.e. status quo is good).  If market share declines, watch out below.  I hate to say it, but as long as goog and amzn stay the course, willing to lose money in order to maintain services/ads, Apple is in unstable territory having to rely totally on marketshare increases while happy to just sustain GM (at this juncture).  Don't get me wrong, Apple is killing it...doing better than I could have imagined.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on amzn to hold out well in mobile.  goog is playing with fire in mobile and should have just as easily made better partnerships with Apple to have secured its mobile stranglehold (albeit at lesser potential than they have now).

 

Edit: I need to clarify that "market share" how I'm using it is to mean pragmatic/reputable statistics, not in the sense of the ridiculously manipulative/biased reports that seem to be released every minute.


Edited by drewys808 - 10/23/13 at 12:46pm
post #190 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

Do you keep all your controls on the desktop?

 

Last point: please explain to my 80-year old father what controls and desktops are.  One needs to take a step back and think about all the metaphors and terminology they've had to learn in order to operate a PC, to really grasp how much the iPad has simplified things for people like my father.

 
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post #191 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Let's get back to the example of multi-user.  This requires a whole new layer of user interface.  A way to authenticate a user at any time: from the lock screen or switching while in mid-use.  Also a way to identify which user is currently "logged in" at any time.  It also requires a method to set up multiple accounts.  And what happens if a FaceTime (or similar) call comes in for another user account?  I could keep going with more and more intricate details like this as I think about it more, all of which add complexity to the user interface and the function of the device.

 

Look, it's the same as the world of PCs: for those who really need to control and do everything and/or want to tinker, there's Linux (or one of the BSD variants).  For those who just want to get a task related to their main interests (other than technology itself) done with as little complication as possible, there's OS X.  Same goes for Android vs Apple tablets.  Each one is "right" for the each different type of user, and it's just silly for one group to argue that the other group needs to be more like them.

 

So... in conclusion... you are saying that Apple dos not have the ability to make this a simple procedure for people?

 

If I was designing the software I'd make it so that the default phone was absolutely no different than the phone you are using now.

 

If someone wanted multi-user then it would be up to them to set the controls in whatever way they wished. It would be up to the users to decide how they want to operate the device.

 

Apple doesn't have to advertise the function, just like the myriad of functions that most people never ever use on their phone.

 

Anyway... it doesn't look like Apple is going to add multiuser but to say that it would make the phone too complex is just silly imo.

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post #192 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Last point: please explain to my 80-year old father what controls and desktops are.  One needs to take a step back and think about all the metaphors and terminology they've had to learn in order to operate a PC, to really grasp how much the iPad has simplified things for people like my father.

 

Bingo.

 

Does your Father need to know how to use the settings to operate the iPad?

 

Are their settings that your Father could use that are currently on the iPad that would change his experience with the phone but he still does not use them?

 

Are those settings visible to your Father and do they get in the way of his user experience?

 

I'm sure I know your answers to each question. You could put "multi-user' in the place of settings for each scenario and the answers would not change.

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post #193 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Here's a few reasons:

 

- The average tablet is less than half the cost of the average laptop

- The average tablet has around 1/20th the storage capacity of the average laptop (a huge factor for supporting multi-user)

- The user interface for tablet software is designed to be much simpler than that of full-blown computers.  The more complexity you add (multiuser, advanced settings, etc), the more you destroy the benefit of tablets for most people.  This is the very reason why Apple was able to create a market for tablets where others had failed before -- simplicity.  Something the tech-head fandroids just don't seem to get because they only interact with other tech-heads, and they all want to just throw in every feature they can think of (and be willing to spend countless hours learning everything).  Sorry, but that's not something the vast majority of people want.

 

-The average iPad sells for around $500. That's not much less than the price of the average laptop out there (here's some data from last year http://blog.laptopmag.com/the-average-pc-laptop-cost-507-in-march). 

 

-True, and this could be a problem if each user wants to store  a large private movie collection on the device. But for casual use such as browsing the web or writing emails, 32gb or 64gb should be plenty for two or three users. 

 

- What sort of complexity are you referring to? The user interface on a tablet with multiple user accounts is essentially the same as when there is only one user. The only difference is that the lockscreen will have an icon representing each user.  

post #194 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Bingo.

 

Does your Father need to know how to use the settings to operate the iPad?

 

Are their settings that your Father could use that are currently on the iPad that would change his experience with the phone but he still does not use them?

 

Are those settings visible to your Father and do they get in the way of his user experience?

 

I'm sure I know your answers to each question. You could put "multi-user' in the place of settings for each scenario and the answers would not change.

 

But it would.  What would he do if he was met with a list of user accounts at the lock screen?  As he is on a desktop PC which isn't set to auto-login one of the accounts.  What would he do if a FaceTime call came in and asked whether he wanted to switch accounts to answer?  What if he accidentally tapped something or made a gesture which caused the account switch interface to show?

 

Your argument holds for things which are purely contained to the preferences.  But as soon as anything needs to leak out into the general user interface (even if it isn't always visible), it adds another level of complexity.

 
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post #195 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

- What sort of complexity are you referring to? The user interface on a tablet with multiple user accounts is essentially the same as when there is only one user. The only difference is that the lockscreen will have an icon representing each user.  

 

... and if there is only one user then nothing changes. Simple.

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post #196 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

But it would.  What would he do if he was met with a list of user accounts at the lock screen?  As he is on a desktop PC which isn't set to auto-login one of the accounts.  What would he do if a FaceTime call came in and asked whether he wanted to switch accounts to answer?  What if he accidentally tapped something or made a gesture which caused the account switch interface to show?

 

Your argument holds for things which are purely contained to the preferences.  But as soon as anything needs to leak out into the general user interface (even if it isn't always visible), it adds another level of complexity.

 

The lock screen can stay the same as it is now for people who do not want multi-user. That would be the default.

 

... but I know about things leaking out. That buggy faulty iOS. Sheesh...

 

C'mon, dude.

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post #197 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

- What sort of complexity are you referring to? The user interface on a tablet with multiple user accounts is essentially the same as when there is only one user. The only difference is that the lockscreen will have an icon representing each user.  

 

That picture just proved my last point: the user interface for that feature has leaked out into the general experience, and thus, there is another paradigm to be learned before one can use the device.  It's amazing how technology people think that learning these things is just "innate".  They can't even see outside of their own experience.

 
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post #198 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

The lock screen can stay the same as it is now for people who do not want multi-user. That would be the default.

 

... but I know about things leaking out. That buggy faulty iOS. Sheesh...

 

C'mon, dude.

 

Go apply for a job helping to design iOS and show 'em how it's done.  Would love to see how fast your ego shrinks explaining your ideas in a room full of people who have spent their entire careers defining the field of human-computer interaction.

 
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post #199 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Go apply for a job helping to design iOS and show 'em how it's done.  Would love to see how fast your ego shrinks explaining your ideas in a room full of people who have spent their entire careers defining the field of human-computer interaction.

 

It sounds to me like I'm not the one who needs to have his ego shrunk.

 

Just saying...

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post #200 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

It sounds to me like I'm not the one who needs to have his ego shrunk.

 

Just saying...

 

Please connect the logical dots on that argument for me.  I wasn't the one who said any of this was 'simple', and have only argued against your assertions otherwise.

 
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