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First look: Microsoft Surface 2 with Type Cover 2 - Page 2

post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

OK, no argues here.

I like to believe I am normal customer too, but I never believed in "one-size-fit-all" mantra.

I am also mostly using tablet to consume, but I like that I can access my media same way I'd do on laptop or desktop. My tablet fits into my existing home network, with no need to do what-so-ever adjustments to make network tablet-friendly. As in, browse my network shares and copy over (if I want to take tablet away) or open directly from the network; older TV shows, comics, eBooks mostly.

My wife grabs tablet to do quick review of assignments, MD and PhD chapters for students she is supervising.

We both print and scan on occasion to and from network attached printer/scanner.

And of course, usual stuff - web, email, FB...

Most of these things can be done from iOS and Android nowadays, but there are still some limitations in network access, compatible printers and scanners and, in my wife's case, full MS Office compatibility - she is physical chemist, some of those documents are quite full with formulas and other "non-standard" content.

I did get two iPads for my mother (so far) and I'm very convinced that was the best choice for her. She is also normal customer, only more stand-alone and less networked than I am.

 

 

I think we need to normalize what normal is. I don't know anyone, other than my geek friends, that have home networks. Most people, and by that I mean normal consumers, have 1 or perhaps 2 computers in their house. No network storage or the need to open up complicated Word documents. Scanners? They still make them? Printers have a long way to go on the tablets. 

 

You probably fit into the more technical 25%, but your needs don't sound normal to me. 

 

That is not to say your needs should not be met in the marketplace, and I'm glad you have found the right fit. 

post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Well, if I remember correctly, original iPhone was hardly runaway success... and it took Android quite a few releases in both software and hardware to start taking off. Xbox was pretty much failure, contrary to Xbox 360. Apple TV had really slow start. Etc etc.

Expecting that new platform will always take off immediately is real insanity, IMHO. It does happen here and there - iPad, original Playstation... but those cases are still in minority.

In addition, there is a big waiting game in the background - Android OEMs might find it very hard to continue with what they do if Apple has their way with patents. I'm not expecting it, but I also would not be completely surprised to see a huge migration from Android to Windows platforms in foreseeable future.

The iPhone ushered in the next generation of smart phones. The Apple TV was/is still considered a hobby.

What did the Surface bring? The desktop experience in a tablet form has failed and has been failing for a decade.

I truly doubt Windows Mobile would overtake Android. MS will not give the OS away for free.
post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

I understand what you're saying, and it makes sense in concept, but I disagree. My wife has an iPad 2 and I have a Nook HD+. The HD+ (awesome tablet for a $150 btw) is about as thin and light as the iPad Air and the difference that makes in contrast to the iPad 2 is jaw dropping. When a tablet is thin and light enough to hold by the edge in one hand with no feeling of stress it really changes how you relate to it. It's hard to describe... and Phil Schiller alluded to this in the keynote. So, wait until the iPad Air is available, and hold one in your hands. I think you'll be surprised. This isn't about bragging rights for "thinnest on the block." It really changes how you feel about using the device.

I will definitely try iPad Air when available here in NZ. I don't think I'll be surprised - I do use Sony eReader and Kobo Mini for reading on the go more often than tablet, so I do know advantages of light 1wink.gif

But again, there is always that fine line between size and functionality that I always weight. iPad Air is approximately 2.5mm thinner than TPT2. This does not concern me much, I have long fingers and I like to have some volume to wrap them around. It is also 0.1kg lighter. This might be something for me to appreciate more, but I will be surprised to see this as more important than functionality for my usage scenarios.

But we will see. I am not ashamed to admit I was wrong, whenever I find myself there.
post #44 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


I think we need to normalize what normal is. I don't know anyone, other than my geek friends, that have home networks. Most people, and by that I mean normal consumers, have 1 or perhaps 2 computers in their house. No network storage or the need to open up complicated Word documents. Scanners? They still make them? Printers have a long way to go on the tablets. 

You probably fit into the more technical 25%, but your needs don't sound normal to me. 

That is not to say your needs should not be met in the marketplace, and I'm glad you have found the right fit. 

Normal consumers don't post of tech forums. I think the average customer does have a wifi network at home. I don't think the average customer needs full Office but get it because everyone else has it. They don't extra storage and spends their time checking email and surfing the web.
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Normal consumers don't post of tech forums. I think the average customer does have a wifi network at home. I don't think the average customer needs full Office but get it because everyone else has it. They don't extra storage and spends their time checking email and surfing the web.

 

Ha, not a wifi network, the network of data. Sorry I was not clear on that. 

post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


I think we need to normalize what normal is. I don't know anyone, other than my geek friends, that have home networks. Most people, and by that I mean normal consumers, have 1 or perhaps 2 computers in their house. No network storage or the need to open up complicated Word documents. Scanners? They still make them? Printers have a long way to go on the tablets. 

You probably fit into the more technical 25%, but your needs don't sound normal to me. 

That is not to say your needs should not be met in the marketplace, and I'm glad you have found the right fit. 

I'd really expect that more than 25% use some sort of shared storage nowadays - you can plug USB HDD to many, if not most ADSL routers available nowadays. My home network is not a "proper" domain network, just a few machines in workgroup, around ADSL modem/router with wireless access point.

Also many people I know do some sort of streaming / accessing media from their computer to their tablets/smartphones. At this age, I would not call that requirement exotic.

My wife is working in education, I'd expect that many teachers/tutors/lecturers/professors will review their students' work at home, on occasion. I'm not saying they are majority of population, but I would not call them abnormal either..?

Scanner... LOL, OK. I guess that one is not too common nowadays. Mine is part of little multifunction printer, and both of us do need to scan something to PDF and email - otherwise one of us would have to take that document to work and scan/pdf/email from there... but printing, people still do that often enough to be considered normal task..? 1smile.gif
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

The iPhone ushered in the next generation of smart phones. The Apple TV was/is still considered a hobby.

What did the Surface bring? The desktop experience in a tablet form has failed and has been failing for a decade.

I truly doubt Windows Mobile would overtake Android. MS will not give the OS away for free.

Well. iPad brought "computing" to people who didn't really need PC - or most of it.

The way I see it, Surface (and other current Windows tablets) bring computing to people who still need PC on occasion, but most of the time can do without.

Windows tablets of past failed because they could not achieve form factor and battery life suitable for such usage scenario. They were also locked in classic desktop mode which was not at all touch-screen friendly. But new Windows tablets (some of them, at least) are competitive in price, size, weight and battery life. They can be used exclusively in tablet mode (which works fine), without ever going into classic desktop... if one doesn't need to. But for those who do need, it is additional bonus, IMHO.

MS will not give OS for free - it is their bread and butter... for now, at least. But at some point, Android OEMs might find it easier to pay for OS license than to deal with uncertainty of being in position to be taken to court at any stage by Microsoft, Apple, Nokia and growing number of other patent holders... especially issomething like this really lives:

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Patent+on+Touch+Typing+Multitouch+Upheld+Allows+Ban+on+Most+Androids/article33580.htm

Beside that... what difference does calling something "a hobby" makes? Can MS call Surface "a hobby" - would that change your perception of platform..?
post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


I'd really expect that more than 25% use some sort of shared storage nowadays - you can plug USB HDD to many, if not most ADSL routers available nowadays. My home network is not a "proper" domain network, just a few machines in workgroup, around ADSL modem/router with wireless access point.

Also many people I know do some sort of streaming / accessing media from their computer to their tablets/smartphones. At this age, I would not call that requirement exotic.

My wife is working in education, I'd expect that many teachers/tutors/lecturers/professors will review their students' work at home, on occasion. I'm not saying they are majority of population, but I would not call them abnormal either..?

Scanner... LOL, OK. I guess that one is not too common nowadays. Mine is part of little multifunction printer, and both of us do need to scan something to PDF and email - otherwise one of us would have to take that document to work and scan/pdf/email from there... but printing, people still do that often enough to be considered normal task..? 1smile.gif

 

I will ask everyone I can find this Sunday (where I see most people) who has any type of network in their house. However, to your points. A HDD to a modem will be seen without any need of 'settings'. A printer/scanner is quite common and access to the printer gives you access to the scan so much like the HDD to the modem, there is no setup (as long as you have the software/drivers).

 

But I am quite confident that most people don't have computers networked together to share data. I'm going to bet that 80% don't even have storage attached to the network via modems. Most people are not even close to being tech savvy.  Most don't have network storage as most don't have that much data, let alone that much to share. 

 

I worked as a PM in the software dev environment, and most of them were asking me how to get their printers to show up. Not the geeks, obviously. You and I might be surrounded by more technological sophisticated people, but the majority are having issues with their DVRs, left along a conversation about NAS. 

 

Sure, many people need to work on documents at home, but even most of them don't have complicated documents. I don't want to sound harsh, but most people are not that important to have that level of work. 

 

I love these people and have absolutely no issues with helping them, but until we can get past what BCC is and how to use it, I don't want to talk about NAS at home. Until I get past explaining to people how important backing up your data is, there is no need to talk about networking computers. Basic everyday technology escapes most people and we are 2 generations away from that not being so. 

 

Please tell your wife, she has my utmost appreciation working in education in this day and age. For that, you need to give her whatever makes her life as easy as possible. 

post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Well. iPad brought "computing" to people who didn't really need PC - or most of it.

The way I see it, Surface (and other current Windows tablets) bring computing to people who still need PC on occasion, but most of the time can do without.

Windows tablets of past failed because they could not achieve form factor and battery life suitable for such usage scenario. They were also locked in classic desktop mode which was not at all touch-screen friendly. But new Windows tablets (some of them, at least) are competitive in price, size, weight and battery life. They can be used exclusively in tablet mode (which works fine), without ever going into classic desktop... if one doesn't need to. But for those who do need, it is additional bonus, IMHO.

MS will not give OS for free - it is their bread and butter... for now, at least. But at some point, Android OEMs might find it easier to pay for OS license than to deal with uncertainty of being in position to be taken to court at any stage by Microsoft, Apple, Nokia and growing number of other patent holders... especially issomething like this really lives:

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Patent+on+Touch+Typing+Multitouch+Upheld+Allows+Ban+on+Most+Androids/article33580.htm

Beside that... what difference does calling something "a hobby" makes? Can MS call Surface "a hobby" - would that change your perception of platform..?

 

I believe that is what Microsoft believes. However, again, most people view tables as the escape from work, not the extension of it. When they (MS or Apple) brings a tablet to market that docks into a charger that plugs into a large monitor, they win. Then, and only then, will people feel that they can eat their cake and have it too. They can have the portability of a tablet to escape from work and consume content, while having an easy way to hook into a larger monitor (keyboard and trackpad via bluetooth), when they need to get any work done. And that work includes taxes, banking, and work from, er, work. 

 

If people need a portable device for production, that is to create/modify content, they use notebooks, and I don't see that going away until the above is achieved. Why? Because NO ONE wants to work on a spreadsheet on a 10" screen no matter how powerful it is. Most don't like working on the 15" or smaller notebooks and prefer to dock them into larger monitors. Viewing and reviewing are a bit different, but large spreadsheets need screen real estate. 

 

Kindle and iPad meet the market need. I want to escape and relax. Microsoft is like that boss you hate, as he always wants you working on something. 

post #50 of 56
Actually, I love editing and creating spreadsheets on my iPad. Even more though, I love to use it to show keynote presentations. The ease of use makes the iPad an extremely productive tool! MUCH more than a surface, where office is a nightmare to use without a stylus (I have tried it in my office - it failed)!
post #51 of 56

I've got a Surface Pro 2 and so far love it but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone but it's good there are these options for people.

 

My scenario is that I wanted something I can use on the sofa for web / email, light enough to take to work for meetings and games / bit of programming in my lunch breaks. I have an iPad 3 but that now never leaves the house it doesn't do everything I need and eventually I just felt like I was pointlessly carrying it around with me. I ultimately had to go back to taking my laptop to use in lunch breaks and the weight of the thing annoyed me.

 

So for me the Surface Pro 2 is perfect. Compared to a laptop it's light, it can still be a tablet when I want it as a tablet, even though it is heavy compared to a tablet it's not too heavy (still perfectly usable), it's passed the use in bed test as well. But I am not everyone and other people will need different things.

 

Comparing Surface 2 to my iPad though is different. They keyboard may fit it, but it's really a consumption device. The portrait landscape comparison I never understand. I mainly use my iPad in landscape and most of my iPad apps also only work in landscape, so why people complain about the Surface screen size I will never understand. 

 

The main use for my iPad though has to be Web / Email and Peppa Pig games for 2 year old. Web / Email is basically equal on both devices. Surface does have flash but it doesn't make that much difference these days. Peppa Pig games however, iPad has about 6, Windows 8 has 1.

 

iPad wins, nothing to do with OS and hardware, simply the availability of games for a 2 year old.

post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Beside that... what difference does calling something "a hobby" makes? Can MS call Surface "a hobby" - would that change your perception of platform..?

Well no because it's not a hobby to MS. They've spent billions on it. Apple TV is a hobby as Apple was testing the waters to see what comes up. I don't think I've ever seen an ad for it. Apple hasn't spend that much money on it (relatively speaking). When it was released there was a barely a market for a set top box.
post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Well no because it's not a hobby to MS. They've spent billions on it. Apple TV is a hobby as Apple was testing the waters to see what comes up. I don't think I've ever seen an ad for it. Apple hasn't spend that much money on it (relatively speaking). When it was released there was a barely a market for a set top box.
How do you know how much they've spent? When it launched there were other devices that did the same thing, Apple even sold them on there website. Now there's even more devices that do similar things. Its a good argument that if you don't get much revenue from something you could call it a hobby. Maybe Google should start referring to Android as a hobby.

Microsoft have tried calling Bing a research project, which to be fair it can and is a being used as a research project for big data technologies. But then people still criticize it for the amount of money it looses each year.

At the end of the day can anything a company does really be called a hobby. There paying people to develop a product and then putting the marketing budget behind it that they think will lead to the biggest return. And if it really is a hobby in the true sense of the word, should they really be using shareholders money to work on a hobby! Isn't that a little inappropriate.
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

How do you know how much they've spent? When it launched there were other devices that did the same thing, Apple even sold them on there website. Now there's even more devices that do similar things. Its a good argument that if you don't get much revenue from something you could call it a hobby. Maybe Google should start referring to Android as a hobby.

Microsoft have tried calling Bing a research project, which to be fair it can and is a being used as a research project for big data technologies. But then people still criticize it for the amount of money it looses each year.

At the end of the day can anything a company does really be called a hobby. There paying people to develop a product and then putting the marketing budget behind it that they think will lead to the biggest return. And if it really is a hobby in the true sense of the word, should they really be using shareholders money to work on a hobby! Isn't that a little inappropriate.

Apple called it a hobby before they started selling the thing. With 150 billion in the proverbial bank, I think stockholders wouldn't mind Apple's investment in Apple TV. Besides it can become a major player if Apple pushes it.

Microsoft has historically never done hobbies. They always released a new product with the goal of dominating.
post #55 of 56
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
I think stockholders wouldn't mind Apple's investment in Apple TV.

 

I think they would mind Apple wasting money to enter the zero margin, third-most-saturated-piece-of-technology-on-the-planet market that is televisions. TV manufacturers are going to do HORRIBLY this holiday season; everyone already has what they want.

 

The Apple TV box, however, can sit in front of every single one of those TVs in this saturated market.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #56 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I think they would mind Apple wasting money to enter the zero margin, third-most-saturated-piece-of-technology-on-the-planet market that is televisions. TV manufacturers are going to do HORRIBLY this holiday season; everyone already has what they want.

The Apple TV box, however, can sit in front of every single one of those TVs in this saturated market.

I was talking about the box. I don't see an Apple TV set in the future.
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