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Microsoft exec takes swing at Apple, calls iWork 'watered down,' iPad 'entertainment device' - Page 4

post #121 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

Hahaha ya sure people are gonna buy the surface tablet over a A7 with 64bit architecture and an M7 movement chip ya sure and retina display. And a tablet that doesn't look/feel like crap

You sir, need to do your research before posting. People will still choose iPads over Surface Pro, but not for the reasons you state!

 

The processing power of the Surface Pro leaves every iPad for dust, and then some.  In case you didn't know, an Intel Core i5 Haswell processor with 4GB RAM is pretty powerful for a laptop, let alone a tablet. Your meager mobile phone processor is not the mighty powerhouse you imagine it to be. The build quality and design of the Surface range is actually very good indeed, but then you'd actually have to look/feel one to know that I guess.

 

The fact remains that iPad will continue to leave Surface for dead in the sales/popularity stakes. No contest.

post #122 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Some legit remarks, a lot of manipulating the reality. Sure, multiple windows is compulsory for pro work, but they still don't understand that iPad isn't made for that, and they should concentrate on the 'easy' making of consumer devices before pro. Or maybe not, to each company its preference.

Indeed, to each her own market.  Apple's market happens to be in the hundreds of millions of units and MS's market in the hundreds of tens.

post #123 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post
 

Do they? iWorks, Google Apps, Office have 90% of the same functionality. For the perceived deficiencies in iWorks and Google Apps there is 3rd party software that is focused and can handle the other 10% of functionality that differentiates Office. I'd rather have just what I need and if I need more I can get at it easily without having to load some slow bloated software using up all the resources on my machine.

 

Not to mention emptying our wallets for MS Office (and Windows).

post #124 of 201
Quote:
Shaw was apparently writing the post, titled "Apples and oranges," from Abu Dhabi, "where the only thing hotter than the weather are the new Windows devices unveiled by Nokia this week."

 

That is so not true ! I live in this country, and I know the Surface isn't by far the #1 tablet of choice by the masses.

After the iPad, Android tablets have a stronger market here. They like the mobile world are a distant 3rd.

post #125 of 201

MS's main problem is that when you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail.

 

They cannot see that people use Office because it's installed pretty much by default on most computers at work. People then "borrow" the disks to take home and install it for free (well, they certainly did at my last place of work!). Almost every document I'm sent in Word format could have been written in TextEdit just as well, let alone Pages or something as feature-bloated as Word.

 

Microsoft will continue to slide into irrelevance unless they realise what people really want outside of a forced software situation and reflex actions from their work where people just want "Word format" because they're used to it.

post #126 of 201
Apple had to dumb down iWork a wee bit to ensure full compatibility between iOS and the mac. Now that this is here, I believe all of the apps are upgraded in functionality to make office even more irrelevant.

Imagine if Numbers did categories and pivot tables. That would completely eliminate the need for Excel for 95% of users. Add some statistical functions to it. Excel would be no longer needed.

Now if I could write a master thesis in Pages, that would eliminate the need for students to get a copy of MS Word. But there are a number of critical features missing. Automatic captioning for images and automatic references to other chapters would be two of the more important ones. If Apple can integrate these into Pages, the whole education market collapses for Microsoft! (Or do you know a student that does not have a MacBook or an iPad?)

Keynote is already the best app for presentations. Now it's even better on iOS with alpha masking (my favourite feature). So there we already see Apple ahead.

Microsoft can keep playing Apple's strategy down, but as soon as Apple integrates only a handful of features, Office will have a hard time finding customers in the post-pc era!
post #127 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The Surface pro 2 is a damn joke. I saw a picture of the internals on Anandtec and I noticed that it has two fans inside, and it's also thick. Who the hell wants to use something that lame? It's no tablet, it's just a laptop that doesn't come with a real keyboard. The whole concept is stupid.

Why is the Surface Pro 2 a joke? It is a laptop in a tablet form, of course it needs a fan, and they are far from being thick.
post #128 of 201

Well, Tim Cook started it I guess! I agree Office is better than iWork, but I disagree that Surface is better than iPad. Nothing comes close to iPad in the current market.

 

And if he thinks it's just an entertainment device, he should look at these pages:

http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/

http://www.apple.com/education/ipad/

or watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Le9wvoY00

post #129 of 201
Office will fade away eventually, oh wait it's doing so as we speak, Poor Microsoft...
post #130 of 201
The only place I've ever seen anyone using a Surface is Chesters Mill, but as that is a fictional town trapped under a dome I'm not sure it really counts 1wink.gif

Meanwhile I know at least 30 people who have an iPad or iPad mini, and several more who are now waiting to get one following Tuesdays announcements...
post #131 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post


Well that's good, because that would have been a horrible insult to the iPad.

sarcasm.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
 

 

 

That's just funny, he's insinuating that the iPad is "more difficult" to use than Microsoft's Surface, which is truly laughable.

 

 

 

The understatement of the year goes to......

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldfullerton View Post
 

Oh dear, oh dear. What a bunch of losers Apple customers are!

 

Why, oh why, do they insist on buying simple software that is designed for use by 'real people', not IT professionals with years of experience negotiating the intricacies and complexities of Microsoft products? Why do these slack Apple customers want to do things like real work or having family lives, rather than marvelling at all the unused features of Word, Excel and Powerpoint, and generating revenue for their IT technicians?

The sarcasm tag is /s.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb123 View Post
 

You sir, need to do your research before posting. People will still choose iPads over Surface Pro, but not for the reasons you state!

 

The processing power of the Surface Pro leaves every iPad for dust, and then some.  In case you didn't know, an Intel Core i5 Haswell processor with 4GB RAM is pretty powerful for a laptop, let alone a tablet. Your meager mobile phone processor is not the mighty powerhouse you imagine it to be. The build quality and design of the Surface range is actually very good indeed, but then you'd actually have to look/feel one to know that I guess.

 

The fact remains that iPad will continue to leave Surface for dead in the sales/popularity stakes. No contest.

 

You sir, need to turn on your sarcasm detector.

post #132 of 201
If you go read the reviews in the Mac App Store, you'll see what watered down means. They've removed tons of functionality from all three iWork applications on the Mac just to make them match up with iOS and iCloud. Go to the Apple forums.

Apple just broke my heart. This just confirmed the fear that Apple doesn't really care about serious tools. No wonder these are free. They dumped the actual software and redeveloped a mockery of what it was.
post #133 of 201

Frank X Shaw is silly for calling out Apple. Nothing identifies a frustrated challenger than shouting at the incumbent.

 

On the other hand, the passion stirred up by his silly post is intriguing. Why can't iPad users be happy with using iPads? Why are we so angry when someone labels them as entertainment devices or whatever? Why can't we just laugh it off as tablet envy?

post #134 of 201

Microsoft has released a new patch update to legendary BS machine v1.

This one comes with a new name and so much more BS that they will soon retire v1.

good bye and good luck steve ballmer.

post #135 of 201
Truth is, if he didn't feel threatened by iWork he wouldn't have even mentioned it.
post #136 of 201
Tim cook did insult microsoft in the ipad announcent, and no one would choose iwork over office if they had the choice. Seems like a non story
post #137 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

And they they choose a wide-screen aspect ratio that is designed to be used in landscape mode. This is a huge failing and shortcoming on MS's part.

Well reminded.
post #138 of 201

Leaving aside the device differences between iPad and Surface the guys got a point.

 

Apple announced iWorks free (although not for my 3rd gen iPad it seems), but so what? Google docs, MS Office Web Apps are both free to and their the equivalent of iWorks. Full office has a load of extra stuff that iWorks doesn't have and if you don't need that stuff then don't buy full office. Some people need spreadsheets to connect to there CRM's, other don't, so buy what you need. But at the feature level, iWorks was the most expensive out of the 3 and is now equally priced.

 

Apple also announced the updates to OSX is free, referring to Windows not being free. But Windows 8.1 is also a free upgrade so there actually priced the same. If you buy a PC it comes with Windows, if you buy a Mac it comes with OS X and the latest update for both a free.

 

The only actual difference is if you build your own PC Microsoft will sell you a copy of Office to install. If you build your own Mac you just can't buy OSX to go on it. Something being on sale and something not does not make a price difference, it just means OSX can't be bought without a Mac.

post #139 of 201
Hello frank shanw in which world are u living you blithering idiot! Your surface rt is a surface hole n the new one is surface pro hole. Today every intelligent consumer knows that ms underdog doesn't have any caliber to innovating that has become inevitable in the era of modern computing infrastructure.

Both surface holes are simply going to rust because of some among many realistic facts

- keyboard had become absolute in the era of portability as their are many smart apps to type in with or with out seeing keys. MS keyboard is just an added burden and has a hidden cost of 100 $

- Office 2003 had a masked subscription cost of 100 $ per year

- how much free space the use gets from these holes are bare minimum as therir stupid OS take up most of the space

- why use third rated USB n SD cards when data can be pushed in and out wireless via ui like airplay cloud

Above all office 2013 as well as it's early one are flaky and doesn't have the caliber in taking a doc that is build with graphics, charts and other multimedia emmbbeded object with large size one spanning to more than a hundred

So who is stinking and puking none other than ms the greatest underdog of the current century n soon it will rust to nothing

-
post #140 of 201
When do we consumers get a word in edge-wise? I don't need productivity, I want easy-to-use-ability. Connectivity, even.

Windows' strength was - WAS - choice for how people could tweek the OS, but somehow that's been diluted. I've read that many people love Surface and/or Win8, but I've not met one yet.

It's a tell-tale sign to me that M$ is still talking about iPad, their favourite product, more than their own. Perhaps it's to hide the specs or lack of change to an inherently uncompelling device.

Apple has a demonstrated tendency to solidify and improve after innovation. Windows and M$ has a proven history of erroneous failures disturbed by two flashes of wonder (XP and 7, of course).

As long as M$ and Samesung continue talking about Apple, their focus is definitely not on their own business, regardless of verbal content.
post #141 of 201

Almost all of the posts on this topic are knee-jerk slagging of Microsoft or trivial complaints about having to pay $20 to update. 

The MS exec is correct in saying that iWork has been watered down. A lot of functionality has been removed for compatibility with iDevices. This renders them worthless for any serious work. Whereas the previous versions were very good and only required small tweeks and function additions to be serious competition for MS Office. Keynote was superb, Numbers great, but Pages needed work. 

Pages in particular is now near-useless- see the extensive posts on the Apple discussion site. 

Apple has got it wrong, like the Final Cut Pro debacle that brought a torrent of complaints and turned off users. 

If Apple keeps making mistakes like this it will turn into the company that PC users in the past derided it for- making overpriced toys. 

Turning off professional users will ultimately kill off the trash can Mac Pro, and leave Apple like Sony, selling expensive entertaining fluff. Make no mistake, the Mac and core users are required for the rest of the products to make up the Apple eco-system. 

post #142 of 201

As an IT consultant I find this talk of standard anoying if you go around most companies they just type up letters and all the bells and whistles of Microsoft Office are useless and an expensive waste of time. If Apple are going to supply iWork free then only a stupid businessman would choose MS. 

I was around at the start of MS and from the start they marketed themselves as the standard and you all went OK.

post #143 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Well, Tim Cook started it I guess! I agree Office is better than iWork, but I disagree that Surface is better than iPad. Nothing comes close to iPad in the current market.

And if he thinks it's just an entertainment device, he should look at these pages:
http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/
http://www.apple.com/education/ipad/
or watch this video: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Le9wvoY00

The iPad is now a cultural phenomenon. The same way all of Apple's is iDevices are a cultural phenomenon.

While the Surface is a phenomenally expensive writedown, without any culture.
post #144 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post

If you go read the reviews in the Mac App Store, you'll see what watered down means. They've removed tons of functionality from all three iWork applications on the Mac just to make them match up with iOS and iCloud. Go to the Apple forums.

When I was watching the Apple Event and they said "We now have full document compatibility across iOS and Mac," I briefly wondered if they had just discarded the old Mac version and ported the iOS version across. With the lost functionality people are now seeing I'm wondering that again.

post #145 of 201

Apple != Microsoft

post #146 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerbear View Post

Absolutely right.  Apple is spending billions to make iPads a milimeter thinner and a few ounces lighter - who cares.  Users want solutions.  It's thin enough already.  Forgetaboutit.  Give us more features, better software, etc.

Sarcasm, I hope? Users want convenience and mobility. App Devs will provide the software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersheep View Post

Apple had to dumb down iWork a wee bit to ensure full compatibility between iOS and the mac. Now that this is here, I believe all of the apps are upgraded in functionality to make office even more irrelevant.

Imagine if Numbers did categories and pivot tables. That would completely eliminate the need for Excel for 95% of users. Add some statistical functions to it. Excel would be no longer needed.
I've used Excel for 20 years and never have I created a pivot table. I doubt that 95% of users use that feature as well. I do agree with the stat functions, though.
post #147 of 201

What M$ is failing to understand is that most users do not need the full power of office anymore. Most people are casual users of word processing and spreadsheets. Yeah iwork is water down form Office but who cares, any tablet is a water down version of a laptop, again who cares. What matter is the ipad and it software delivers what people need, it is not over kill. M$ does not want to face the fact the majority of the users do not want or need the full power of Office anymore.


Edited by Maestro64 - 10/25/13 at 12:33pm
post #148 of 201
"It has been rumored that we have fired scud missiles into Kuwait. I am here now to tell you, we do not have any scud missiles and I don't know why they were fired into Kuwait."
— Actual Quote From the Iraqi Information Minister, Mr. al-Sahaf
(AKA 'Baghdad Bob')

If you have been wondering what happened to Mr. al-Sahaf, he is now the Information Minister for Microsoft's Surface Division, and a contender for Steve Ballmer's soon to available position.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #149 of 201
I for one absolutely need Excel for iOS. Nothing else will suffice.
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
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Where's the new Apple TV?
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post #150 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Frank X Shaw is silly for calling out Apple. Nothing identifies a frustrated challenger than shouting at the incumbent.

On the other hand, the passion stirred up by his silly post is intriguing. Why can't iPad users be happy with using iPads? Why are we so angry when someone labels them as entertainment devices or whatever? Why can't we just laugh it off as tablet envy?

Looking through this story and the following posts, Most everyone IS laughing this off. I don't see the anger you are talking about.

What I do find most humorous is when the Surface was first announced (as a creation device vs. a consumption device) They demonstrated how well it could show movies and play music. Even more recently to illustrate how the Surface Pro can multitask it was shown doing two thing (a) creating a PowerPoint while (b) watching a movie. I created a lot of PowerPoints, but never while watching a movie --- the Surface may be able to multitask but I'd never finish a PowerPoint with a movie playing at the same time. :-)

I think the Surface Pro may get some traction at places where the IT manager has absolute control, but BYOD has gone on for too many years to put the iPad back in its box. Furthermore, the vast majority of worker bees need less than 20% of what MS Office is capable of. I'm highly skilled with Office and I know I have used less the 50% of what it can do... maybe even 40%.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #151 of 201

I mean really! What do you expect them to say? That Apple is kicking our collective asses all over the landscape! This has been going on for years!

post #152 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

I for one absolutely need Excel for iOS. Nothing else will suffice.

Wait until you see what a dog Excel is on the Surface 2 (formerly RT), and if you want to create a tall narrow document, you need to change the device setting...none of this stuff of just rotating the Surface 90*
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #153 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc54 View Post

I mean really! What do you expect them to say? That Apple is kicking our collective asses all over the landscape! This has been going on for years!

With the emphasis on the word, "YEARS."

While Steve Ballmer hung out in his office, giggling, the U.S. federal government completed a RFQ that left Microsoft standing out in the cold on smart phones AND tablet purchases for the next 6 years.

De times dae have a-change-ed...
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #154 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerbear View Post
 

Absolutely right.  Apple is spending billions to make iPads a milimeter thinner and a few ounces lighter - who cares.  Users want solutions.  It's thin enough already.  Forgetaboutit.  Give us more features, better software, etc.

Not  sure you understand that spending $$$ to attain  thinner and Lighter is not an end.  Yes it conveys a benefit ( which you seem to undervalue) .  Perhaps more importantly though,  It's also the means to making the next generation of small, light, & power efficient devices.    These devices have yet to be imagined by most folks.    Open your mind,  do you think that phones and tablets will be offered in the same form in 5 years?  

post #155 of 201
Originally Posted by amar99 View Post
Apple is clearly playing catch-up. Except the difference is, their biggest competitor has always been themselves. They try to out-do their own products, because that's the type of company they are.

 

I like this take.

 

Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post
I for one absolutely need Excel for iOS. Nothing else will suffice.

 

Why?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #156 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

Hahaha ya sure people are gonna buy the surface tablet over a A7 with 64bit architecture and an M7 movement chip ya sure and retina display. And a tablet that doesn't look/feel like crap

 

@bananaman 

No, you confuse genuine idiocy for sarcasm. These are the kind of people that give Apple fanboys a bad name. :no:

post #157 of 201
People who say the iPad is already thin and light enough don't carry and use a full-sized iPad 3/4 on a regular basis.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #158 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

I for one absolutely need Excel for iOS. Nothing else will suffice.
 

Wait until you see what a dog Excel is on the Surface 2 (formerly RT), and if you want to create a tall narrow document, you need to change the device setting...none of this stuff of just rotating the Surface 90*

I haven't tried Excel on Surface. But I've used Numbers extensively. It doesn't compare to Excel. Furthermore, the recent version includes changes that are regressive rather than progressive. Even sorting, a very essential function, is limited ... grrr. And, despite the cute demo mocking Eddy Cue, collaboration doesn't on iWork/iCloud. Apple needs to keep working on this.


Edited by StruckPaper - 10/24/13 at 9:25am
post #159 of 201
"watered down"? What is it that I can or need to do in Word that I can't do in Pages? It's a word processor. If I needed to, I could use Notepad. In fact, I have.
post #160 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by flux8 View Post

"watered down"? What is it that I can or need to do in Word that I can't do in Pages? It's a word processor. If I needed to, I could use Notepad. In fact, I have.

There is actually plenty that you can do in Word that you cannot do in Pages. Being less feature-heavy, Pages is actually more responsive. 

 

That doesn't mean Pages isn't good. Nor does it mean Pages isn't adequate for many people. Furthermore, the differences between Word and Pages are far less significant than the differences between Excel and Numbers.

 

But it sounds like you have not used Pages or Numbers at all, perhaps not even Word. Furthermore, by invoking the example of Notepad, which is a text editor and not a word processor, you've actually mocked Pages, not to mention yourself. 

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