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Microsoft exec takes swing at Apple, calls iWork 'watered down,' iPad 'entertainment device' - Page 2

post #41 of 201
Office is a highly functional software suite, and I would happily use it on iOS. The best scenario for me is iPad with Office. Surface is just fugly and unfun, but Office is the standard. Apple design, apple fun software, and MS document software.
post #42 of 201
How many M$ executives does it take ro screw in a lightbulb?

None. They just declare darkness ro be the best thing ever. Way better than an Apple lightbulb.
post #43 of 201

The sound of 'bitter' has no grander sense to the ear than to the tongue.

 

Of course it is (watered down!-imagine), compared to the labyrinth, behemoth that is office.

 

But free is free and for other than some large corp or business, iWorks has it well defined. Me thinks poor MS knows its nose is but a hair above the water line of relevance. Must be a terrible state to be in. Maybe Apple should throw its old adversary a bone and allow MS Office to sell at the AppleStore and nix the usual 30%. Charity brings it own reward, I guess.

 

I have a soft spot for panhandlers.


Edited by mhikl - 10/23/13 at 4:31pm

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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post #44 of 201
What else ARE you gonna say when your milkshake is being drunk besides "I didn't like that flavor anyway"?
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #45 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anant View Post

Quote:
... while owners of boxed editions and those who purchased the apps through the Mac App Store can upgrade for no fee. 
Is this true? My computer had iWork '09 installed from the boxed edition. When I upgraded it from Mac App Store, I received 3 bills, charging me $19.99 each for Pages, Numbers and Keynote. Should I ask for a refund? Has anyone with boxed versions of iWork been able to upgrade these for no free?

Yes! Both iWork and iLife plus GarageBand and iMovie successfully upgraded at no charge across 5 Macs.
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #46 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

Yes Frank, we know you make trucks.

Best post of the month! :)

post #47 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A senior Microsoft executive on Wednesday fired out a post on the company's official blog deriding Apple's recent special event, saying the iPad with iWork is no equal to Surface 2 and Office.

Well that's good, because that would have been a horrible insult to the iPad.
post #48 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

 It's not nearly as powerful as the dungheap that is M$ Office.  Apple could fix that, but they haven't been trying. 

 

So, you want it to be a powerful dungheap? And then you'll complain about what a powerful dungheap it is?

post #49 of 201
Quote:
Apple's decision to drop fees for iWork was insignificant

Maybe, but time will tell.

 

Quote:
adding that the suite of apps never got much traction.

True, one wouldn't necessarily consider iWork as a professional office suite like MS Office. But iWorks gained traction in areas where MS Office is just too bloated. No one will seriously consider Microsoft Works because it doesn't open Office documents, it doesn't have a spell checker (yes Windows does not come with a dictionary, you have to buy Office to get system wide spell checker), and it's a very crippled software. I bought it, I used it, and I regretted it.

 

Quote:
Using the software on an iPad is even more difficult due to the lack of precision input and true multitasking, he said.

That's just funny, he's insinuating that the iPad is "more difficult" to use than Microsoft's Surface, which is truly laughable.

 

Quote:
The ability to use apps and documents side by side, allowing the comparisons, analysis and synthesis that happens frequently during content creation.

This is why we have laptops. I don't think MS gets it yet, they're confused on the differences between a laptop and a tablet. People buy tablets because tablets are quick and easy to whip-out and use. Microsoft seems to always fall back to the cubicle on the job kind scenario. I would like to see how Microsoft envisions comparing two side by side 8.5x11 documents on a 9.7" screen.

 

 

What I really would like to see is Apple finally slapping on some balls and encroaching on Microsoft's territory, aka Microsoft Server, Microsoft Windows Enterprise, Microsoft Exchange Server, and Microsoft Office. Microsoft has had a monopoly in those areas forever, and I would love to see some serious competition, specifically from Apple. Apple did a fabulous job in 2001 with OS X Server, XServe and Xserve RAID, but then they dropped it all except for OS X Server which doesn't get any Apple love, except for enterprise iOS apps.

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post #50 of 201

Oh dear, oh dear. What a bunch of losers Apple customers are!

 

Why, oh why, do they insist on buying simple software that is designed for use by 'real people', not IT professionals with years of experience negotiating the intricacies and complexities of Microsoft products? Why do these slack Apple customers want to do things like real work or having family lives, rather than marvelling at all the unused features of Word, Excel and Powerpoint, and generating revenue for their IT technicians?

post #51 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anant View Post

Is this true? My computer had iWork '09 installed from the boxed edition. When I upgraded it from Mac App Store, I received 3 bills, charging me $19.99 each for Pages, Numbers and Keynote. Should I ask for a refund? Has anyone with boxed versions of iWork been able to upgrade these for no free?
I had iWork 07 I think and it upgraded for free once I had upgraded to mavericks.
post #52 of 201
I am encouraged by the new features for iWorks and iLife. The Web UI version of iWorks is looking very promising, as well.
post #53 of 201

Hm, that's funny. Maybe Mr. Microsoft exec can explain to me why I just uninstalled Office 2011 from my Mac as soon as the new iWork apps became available. The only thing missing from iCloud to blow Office 365 away is custom domain names for email. I hope Apple really considers this, as for me it is the only thing missing. I sent the feedback requesting this already.

post #54 of 201
Microsoft is scared. I can smell the fear.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #55 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The fact that somebody that high up in Microsoft writes that way really shows that at Microsoft, buffoonish incompetence reaches down from the very top: Steve Ballmer

What did they do with those coffins they paraded around for the iPhone? Maybe they can use it to bury the $900 million unsold inventory of Surfaces.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


What did they do with those coffins they paraded around for the iPhone? Maybe they can use it to bury the $900 million unsold inventory of Surfaces.

 

Then they would be Below the Surfaces.

na na na na na...
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post #57 of 201

This from the makers of Zuni and Surface.  Enough said.

post #58 of 201
I think Microsoft could dry up and blow away and I think nobody would mind.
post #59 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

when I see Apple drop the price of their struggling, lightweight productivity apps, I don't see a shot across our bow, I see an attempt to play catch up

 

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it - Upton Sinclair

post #60 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSA8690 View Post

He mentioned Surface is the "most productive tablet" on the market today. He meant the most boring tablet on the market. Because of Windows 8. Moreover, Surface is not a tablet, Surface is kind of small ultra-book. Let him compare Windows 8 to Mavericks "Apple's new OS". Windows 8 has lack of design and there is no consistency. I wanna from him to show give facts that Surface is more powerful than iPad in terms of hardware and Software. Senior Microsoft forgot to mention how are Microsoft programs are expensive. For example, Windows 8 price for $400 - $450 in Australia. Yesterday I download Mavericks for free..

How is the surface not a tablet? You can't compare it to OSX anymore than you can compare iOS to Window 8 Pro. You may be getting confused with the Surface and Surface pro.

Also, hardly anyone pays the retail price of Windows 8, they will get the OEM version, or a VLK or KMS edition. I downloaded Mavericks for free yesterday as well, although the Mac I installed it on was significantly more expensive than the PC I installed Windows 8.1 on (also free)
post #61 of 201

Push vs. Pull

If only Microsoft would spend more time understanding how and why consumers use different types of computers, devices and services, rather than trying to cram Windows and Office down the throat of every human being on the planet...

 

Yes, there is room for entertainment devices in the world!  And yes, many iPads are used that way! And, yes, people using computing devices at home don't always want or need all the horsepower - or even the same apps - they have at work!   They sometimes want different experiences - like playing a game with their child instead of firing up Excel...   Imagine that!

 

Microsoft's approach ignores reality and tries to push the same platform everywhere.  As a result, Windows tablet hybrids are too complex for simple tasks and too simple for complex tasks...  And they feel like work...  You know, most folks really CAN navigate a couple of different types of devices and a couple of different interfaces...  Really!

 

What is amazing is that Microsoft perpetually confuses its self-interested strategy of 'Windows Everywhere' with experiences that are actually meaningful with consumers...  As a company, they're actually not self-aware in this regard...  Instead, condescendingly, they really believe that stupid consumers have been hoodwinked by 'entertainment' or 'fashion'...

 

They are as blind as ever...  Microsoft understands business, but they don't understand LIFE...  Sadly, Ballmer's departure is not going to change that...

post #62 of 201
What a high paying troll. He can say this because MS has a lock on the OS department around the world. They collect their licensing fee while the tech companies clutter the hell out of Best Buy,Walmart etc with tons of OEM sh** powered by Windows. But Surface is a joke. It can't run FULL WINDOWS. It runs a WINDOWS-ESQUE APP that looks like you're running full Windows.
And I use Pages and Numbers(love it) and I'm balling like Lebron! I'm also getting the 128 gig iPad Air and the retina equipped iPad mini by Xmas. So MS can... off.!
post #63 of 201

Now that Apple is giving away iWork and MacOS for free, it is doing what Google does with Android, Chrome OS and GoogleDocs. This leaves Microsoft as virtually the only vendor charging for OS and apps for word processing, email, spreadsheets and presentation. 

post #64 of 201
The Surface pro 2 is a damn joke. I saw a picture of the internals on Anandtec and I noticed that it has two fans inside, and it's also thick. Who the hell wants to use something that lame? It's no tablet, it's just a laptop that doesn't come with a real keyboard. The whole concept is stupid.

If somebody wants the best laptop, just buy a Macbook, if somebody wants the best tablet, just buy an iPad.

What's next? Is microsoft going to release an amazing new device for the kitchen? An oven and refrigerator built into one?

The surface is simply put a stupid concept.
post #65 of 201

iWork for a living. I use Numbers and Pages, mostly Numbers, for work.  On my iPad 3rd gen.

I use Adobe Reader to keep track of Organic Certificates.

I use Recipe Book App to make dinner, dessert, breakfast, snacks.

I use iMuscle2 to create workouts.

I watch recorded TV shows on the iPad while riding my Air-Dyne.

I use Calendar and Reminders all the time for meetings, reminders to write checks.

I use the BofA App to deposit checks (mostly on the iPhone).

I use FaceBook Pages App to keep up my business' page.

 

Yes, I can do a lot of this from my iMac at home too... but I can and DO use my iOS devices to keep my biz going. 

 

iWork for a living, and I do it with my iPad, iPhone and iMac. 

 

Yes, I play Carmageddon and Pool Break to kill time sometimes.

 

Should we start an 'iWork for a living' campaign? 

 

Vaporland posted a quote that sums these comments up completely.

post #66 of 201
You gather all the people in the world who love complexity, who just revel in finding needles in haystacks, who seek out the circuitous route and shun the straight shot, people who despise Occam's razor and adore Rube Goldberg. Then you have them form a software company. You just created Microsoft.
post #67 of 201
Quote:
The Surface and Surface 2 are less expensive than the iPad 2 and iPad Air respectively, and yet offer more storage, both onboard and in the cloud.

Sure, but they aren't constructed with the level of precision and quality. MS Surface is very nice, especially in comparison to most Android-based tablets, but it's not Apple-level. But let's assume for the sake of argument that they cost exactly the same to make and yet Apple charges more; of course they can because people desire their product. Not only is Apple selling out MS can't sell enough to profit from their efforts. MS is even paying Delta (or heavily reducing their inferior product) to use them across the line. It's a smart business move but it's still a sign that their product isn't desirable.
Quote:
…come with full versions of Office 2013, including Outlook, not non-standard, non-cross-platform, imitation apps that can’t share docs with the rest of the world.

As Gruber noted, Office isn't a "standard". Those apps are also highly limited on the RT version and not at all idealized for a small touchscreen environment.


PS: It's dangerous for MS to say "offers more storage." That could be seen as offering more available on-board storage to the user as opposed offering higher-capacity storage for a given device. Windows is excessively large that MS can't start with 16GB on their device. This is not a pro for MS.
post #68 of 201
Sports used to teach youth to be good losers, willing to praise the winning team. Microsoft seems led by bad sports who can only mock and criticize the success of others.

If Apple's success doesn't mean they're doing something right, then what are we to make of Microsoft's former successes?
post #69 of 201
Those assholes in Microsoft didn't realize yet that people want entertainment tablets? If they wanted tablets for work they'd fucking buying Windows tablets.
Edited by Mavericks - 10/23/13 at 6:02pm
post #70 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavericks View Post

Those assholes in Microsoft didn't realize yet that people want entertainment tablets? If they wanted tablets for work they'd fucking buy Windows tablets.

And they they choose a wide-screen aspect ratio that is designed to be used in landscape mode. This is a huge failing and shortcoming on MS's part.
post #71 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post
 

As clueless as ever it seems. From what I remember that "entertainment device" didn't need $1 billion in write-downs. And I'm sure Apple is ever so upset that their "entertainment device" has sold 150 million units and has made them countless 10s of billions of dollars.

 

Slight correction...

 

 

 

There...all better.  ;)

post #72 of 201

I am so tired of hearing people label the iPad an "entertainment device" as if there is anything wrong with that.  I take my iPad with me where I used to have to take my MacBook Pro.  I can get important "work" done on it when I have to and then have it be my "entertainment device".  If you want more than that then by all means, get a Surface. If all that bloat is what floats your boat, then the iPad is not the right "work" tool for you.

 

I love my iPad because the "entertainment" and the creation of my music with the various apps I use is number 1.  At the same time, if I have to write a paper or edit some word or excel documents, the iPad is more than capable of doing that too.  So Mr. Shaw, keep touting your Surface and if people really want their tablet to be their PC, you'll be able to sell some.  As for me and the 170 million people that have already bought iPads, we're not missing anything. We are happy with our entertainment device.

post #73 of 201

It appears we will always remain divided, Apple vs MS and everything PC. I live and breath in Apple work environment, iPhone, iMac, Mac Pro, iPad...I enjoy using every piece. What MS geeks or Apple-haters don't get is we "enjoy" using our devices. I get my work, entertainment and everything else all done here. This is coming from a person that has always own PCs along side my Mac gears.

 

I enjoy the challenge of building my own PCs that runs on unstable, virus-targeted Windows OS! Some days I even enjoy troubleshooting it. But honestly, I prefer my low-maintenance Mac devices more: simplicity, functional, reliable and durable. I will always keep a PC around, but old-age wisdom says, "grass isn't always greener on the other side"!

 

Every successful brand has it's own die-hard followers, Apple is no different. As long as they keep innovating, I could careless what PC geeks say Apple products, since they don't use any.

post #74 of 201

Windows 8.1 Pro + Windows Office Pro = $600

Mavericks + iWorks = Free

Which bundle actually works and is more productive?

Apple 

post #75 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post
 

I am so tired of hearing people label the iPad an "entertainment device"...<snip>

 

Exactly.  Tell international airline pilots, professors, engineers, marine navigators, military personnel, surgeons, business/enterprise executives of almost every stripe around the world that they're not very bright; using an "entertainment device".

 

Even if MS offered a tablet more than a few people wanted, this is not the way to go about winning friends and influencing people.  It's childish sour grapes. 

 

Microsoft's insecurity and self-loathing is at an all time high.  Very sad.

post #76 of 201

It's all perfect common sense. Surface 2 and Surface 2 Pro are the top selling tablets even though they haven't been released yet and no one has used them. Can't you all see the logic in this?


Edited by bdkennedy1 - 10/23/13 at 6:40pm
post #77 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Gregory View Post
 

iWork for a living. I use Numbers and Pages, mostly Numbers, for work.  On my iPad 3rd gen.

I use Adobe Reader to keep track of Organic Certificates.

I use Recipe Book App to make dinner, dessert, breakfast, snacks.

I use iMuscle2 to create workouts.

I watch recorded TV shows on the iPad while riding my Air-Dyne.

I use Calendar and Reminders all the time for meetings, reminders to write checks.

I use the BofA App to deposit checks (mostly on the iPhone).

I use FaceBook Pages App to keep up my business' page.

 

Yes, I can do a lot of this from my iMac at home too... but I can and DO use my iOS devices to keep my biz going. 

 

iWork for a living, and I do it with my iPad, iPhone and iMac. 

 

Yes, I play Carmageddon and Pool Break to kill time sometimes.

 

Should we start an 'iWork for a living' campaign? 

 

Vaporland posted a quote that sums these comments up completely.

Brilliant, Bro! :)

post #78 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

...

Oh, and it's not exactly inaccurate to call iWork "watered down" because it is.  It's not nearly as powerful as the dungheap that is M$ Office.  Apple could fix that, but they haven't been trying.  People really do want that feature mix, and if it were in a decent program, Apple could take over the office software market.

 

I wonder what percentage of MS Office users utilize more than 10% (actually, let's make it 5%) of all of its "feature-bloated" functionality.

 

I'd guess that no more than 5% of actual Office users use more than 5% of Office's functionality, so if iWork theoretically had 5% of all of Office's functionality (also the most-used functions), then it would be perfectly suitable for 95% of the market.

post #79 of 201

Windows 8 : Yesterday's Technology Tomorrow!

 

 

 

"Real Work......

There's no more fun than throwing a load of bricks in the back

and taking a couple turns around the track.

It's just mass times energy, baby!"

....says S.B. of WA.

post #80 of 201

Having now used the new version of Numbers (for Mac) I can say that Microsoft can begin the celebration.  The new iWork is atrocious. Much-reduced functionality, to the point that it is virtually useless for my business needs now. Apple has ruined a good product and is in the process of alienating newfound enterprise customers.  Fortunately iWork 2009 still works.  For the time being.  But if Apple doesn't fix the deficiencies in the 2013 edition soon, I'll have no choice but to move to different software. Perhaps a different platform. Apple has begun an anti-switcher campaign.  Very sad.

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