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Hands on with Apple's new Intel Xeon E5, dual AMD FirePro equipped Mac Pro - Page 2

post #41 of 170
The pros already hate this circular Mac. They prefer rectangular boxes that they can pack with all sorts of CrossFire goodies and optical drives. Apple is going to a place that no one else wants to go to. It's like trying to put a round peg into a square hole. As awesome a design as it is, I doubt the world is ready for it. You can't change professional's minds overnight. Their heads are too used to working with rectangular boxes. I'm sure the critics and pundits have already made the decision that this circular Mac Pro will be Apple's ultimate failure. It's too expensive and too radical design for anyone to understand.

I'd love to own a high-end Mac Pro, but although I can afford one I have absolutely no need for a computer this powerful. I know the entire computing industry is laughing at Apple for creating a circular desktop computer. Wall Street is ready to downgrade Apple because they're already sure Apple will lose a ton of money on this Mac Pro as it's too expensive for consumers. It looks like this Mac Pro will further increase the doom predictions for Apple.
post #42 of 170
Hey AppleInsider, what's the hands on part of this article? This is just summing up the keynote. Lame.
post #43 of 170
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
I'm not so sure about that.

 

Why? It’s literally RIGHT on the slide. There’s an image of the PCIe SSD right there, not the RAM at all, and it says “user accessible”.

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post #44 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

 I thought it was called the Affordable Care Act. Not sure why Obama's name is attached to it considering what was passed was actually the Republican plan. Obama ran on everybody getting the same insurance that Congress has and a public option. Republicans wanted all their rich insurance buddies to make more money, so they objected to Obama's plan, and pushed what we have. Nearly every aspect of the plan was supported by Republicans in previous years. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

^^^ This!

Just to add some meat this thread. here's a video by Michael Cioni. His company, Light Iron, does Post, DI, etc for movies like 42, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, Muppets... Michael is a talented creative, engaging speaker and has an amazing mind.

The entire video is a great watch, but at 13:42, Michael talks about the future of FCPX (I'd love to get his take on the Mac Pro).

http://vimeo.com/73797466


FWIW, I am going to buy a Mac Pro with the money I save by [not buying] ObamaChaos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Aren't you on Medicare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, me personally. And I have excellent Coverage with Kaiser Permanente (about 2 miles away) from home. But my daughter was told by her tax man that she'd need to pay for OC or a $7,000 penalty (single Mom with3 Teenagers).

BTW, do you plan to buy any Mac Pros for personal or company use?

Ok guys, as you all know, this is not a political forum. If you insist making it one, don't! You know where to take if if you really want to debate it.
post #45 of 170
i wonder... if you use boot camp on the new mac pro, can you use crossfire under windows for gaming?... yes, cost wise, it is a poor computer for gaming in windows, but can you...?

but it is an awesome computer, and people get work done on Apple computer, thus it really does not matter if it can "crossfire" under windows while gaming...
post #46 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


It might be possible, but no mention was made of it being possible. We all expect RAM to be upgradable, but in Apple's latest computers, the drive is extremely difficult to upgrade. I would hope it's possible.

 

Hmm, isn't it the other way round? I have a retina Macbook Pro and have changed the SSD for one of the OWC ones, which is a real screamer even compared to the standard one and you get a USB 3.0 case for the old Flash disc, which is also insanely fast. It was easier to get to then any other Mac before (except the first Aluminium Macbook maybe), and over the years I have changed the hard drive and other things in almost every Mac since around 2000. Its 8 screws and you're there.

 

Yet I cant upgrade RAM as it is soldered in, so I went for the max from the start. So at the moment it seems easier to change the disc than the RAM.

post #47 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

^^^ This!

Just to add some meat this thread. here's a video by Michael Cioni. His company, Light Iron, does Post, DI, etc for movies like 42, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, Muppets... Michael is a talented creative, engaging speaker and has an amazing mind.

The entire video is a great watch, but at 13:42, Michael talks about the future of FCPX (I'd love to get his take on the Mac Pro).

http://vimeo.com/73797466

FWIW, I am going to buy a Mac Pro!

Wow what a great video, thank you so much. I'm going to buy one.
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post #48 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

Thunderbolt 2 is a pretty good replacement for PCI Express slots (the current Mac Pro has 4 PCI-E x16 slots). For this purpose, the new Mac Pro is an impressive computer.

I disagree. First, realize that Thunderbolt 2 has the same bandwidth as Thunderbolt, it just allows aggregation of the bandwidth into a single channel, equivalent to a x4 slot. The power is limited to 9.9 watts, so, for example, you need a power brick for a fiber channel adapter (like the Promise SANLink). Add a case, power brick and Thunderbolt cable, and the price goes up by $100 minimum for any expansion.

post #49 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman View Post

This is testing my Apple love. I can't see it as anything other than a waste paper bin designed for an office on the Death Star.

Sorry.

I'm sure that as form follows function this is excellent design, but I don't want a round shiny black thing on my desk or next to it.

I am willing to bet that the receptionists at many fashion houses, architects, law firms (and the like) will have this conspicuously displayed on an empty desktop except for an iPad to handle appointments, calendars, schedules...

It is way overpowered for those needs -- but it makes a compelling statement of style and taste!
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post #50 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

Well, but that's the point. He first put up the slide about RAM being "User accessible" (which we know for a fact is user-replaceable) and then used the same terminology to refer to the flash storage. There's no other sensible conclusion. You can even see the simple screw that holds the storage in the socket, which is easily removed.

It might be possible, but no mention was made of it being possible. We all expect RAM to be upgradable, but in Apple's latest computers, the drive is extremely difficult to upgrade. I would hope it's possible.

 

Okay, I feel like you're being intentionally stubborn. :) 

 

According to Macworld (I realize they're not Apple),

"How upgradeable is the new Mac Pro?

The new Mac Pro’s RAM is situated in four memory slots and can be upgraded easily—you just slide off the computer’s cylindrical, metal sleeve, pop out the old memory, and insert new DIMMs. The computer’s flash storage is also upgradeable, as it sits on a small card that connects to a socket on the motherboard (or in this case, it appears, a socket on one of the GPU boards). This means you can pop out that card and replace it with a new one." - Mac Pro hands on

 

And Apple reiterates the ease of replacement on their own Mac Pro page. Just scroll down to Memory and watch the animation as you move to Graphics. In the specs page they list both the RAM and flash storage as "user accessible" and I believe they are making it as simple and easy as possible.

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post #51 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

Slick design and engineering don't make up for the fact that this machine is lacking in expansion and choice. Most workstation class machines offer more internal storage expansion, multiple graphics options, dual Xeon CPU's, and more memory. Also, conspicuously absent from Apple's latest announcements was a 4K display (several vendors have announced these). Again, I think this is a cool machine just with limited appeal...

 

I think people are failing to realize that Apple has revolutionized the pro computer.

 

The future is that the "desktop PC" is the brain, and you stick on attachments from the outside, with no loss of performance, as needed.


Why did you need that huge internal volume with all those slots?  Because you needed a fast internal-bus to stick cards into.  Connecting from the outside was too slow.

 

If there's no loss of performance to hang a drive or accessory on the outside, then you only buy what you need.

 

The machine is CHEAPER since you only buy the brain now, and whatever body-parts you need later.  No performance loss.

 

People will get used to it and before they know it the old way will seem quaint.


Simple.  Visionary.  So-Forward-Looking-that-people-don't-even-recognize-what-it-is. 

 

Apple.

 

3.5" floppy drive not included.   Stand by for Surface 3 with a Parrallel Port.

post #52 of 170
I just received word from Apple on this "user replaceable" issue. If the SSD dies or you want to get a different size you, the user, simply orders a new Mac Pro to replace the one you currently have.
post #53 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I'm not so sure about that. I do hope it's replaceable though.

It's "replacable" in that it comes out, but it's not exactly an off-the-shelf part.  Not sure if it's the same chip that OWC sells for the MBA.

post #54 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I'm not so sure about that. I do hope it's replaceable though.

It's "replacable" in that it comes out, but it's not exactly an off-the-shelf part.  Not sure if it's the same chip that OWC sells for the MBA.

 

I'm sure OWC will have a part for it in no time.

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post #55 of 170
If they allow customization with a single GPU I might consider buying one.

But I have no need for a second one, and I'm not willing to pay for it.

As the cards are now entirely custom, it's unlikely there will be any availability of replacements, so we're stuck with what Apple gives us.
post #56 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Every aspect of the new machine targets the needs of creative Mac professionals.

 

That is a factually incorrect statement.

 

-kpluck

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post #57 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

And why does the high end configuration on the Apple Store only have 256GB of Flash? Even the high end Macbook Pro configuration has 512GB. Surely the default configs should be designed to avoid as many people having to do CTO as possible.

 

Because for professional use the drive is only to hold the OS and apps, with very little data stored locally. Users will either be pulling files from a server or from external drives/drive arrays. We have half-a-dozen old style Mac Pros, all of which have been upgraded with 256GB SSDs. That capacity has proven to be the sweet spot. We could just about run with 128GB, but that tends to be tight; 512GB, which I have in my MBP, isn't necessary for fixed workstations.

post #58 of 170
So can I see your finger prints on that shiny casing its in? Please?
post #59 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

If they allow customization with a single GPU I might consider buying one.

Not possible. The 7 display outputs (6 Thunderbolt + HDMI) requires two GPUs.

post #60 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

After reading several postings I'd like to post my opinion on what this "device" is used for. Previously, Macs contained everything required in one package (including keyboard and monitor). The new Mac Pro is a Lego(tm) piece. Pro users will now need to add everything except for the boot drive, RAM and video cards to complete their system. Some people like this and others don't. If I already had access to a NAS or Xsan or something similar, I'm practically ready to go. A 256GB boot drive might not be enough to handle extra large digital photos but them again, bulking up on internal RAM might be enough for fast processing using something similar to a fusion drive setup. Video professionals will need tons of storage, much more than will easily fit in a single CPU box, so it really shouldn't matter to them. Publishing professionals in large corporations should be using network storage anyway (my background for 30+ years) so they already have storage arrays or some kind. If they don't, they risk losing lots of billable work if the local computer dies (this does happen, especially when serviced by Windows-centric IT staff). 

Nobody has said anything about using the Mac Pro as a server. It's overkill with the base graphics cards but maybe Apple will release a stripped server version with a simple graphics card, an integrated graphics card, or three CPU cards instead of the graphics cards for a very interesting server. Stack these cans in a specialized rack at an angle for access and proper airflow and you have the rebirth of an all-Mac computer center.

I like the way you think!

In re the fusion drive -- It's just staging files (percolate up and trickle down) between an SSD and an HDD. Who says that both need to be in the same enclosure? In fact, with Thunderbolt 2 you could have multiple levels of staging:
  • Mac Pro Internal SSD
  • Thunderbolt external SSD
  • Thunderbolt external HDD/RAID
  • NAS or Cloud


Hmm... I wonder... I have been running Mavericks since WWDC. It was very solid from the beginning and I had very few problems through DP 6. But starting with the GM and then the release, I am having problems with my Thunderbolt Pegasus RAIDS and I/O in general. One of the RAIDS will disappear, then take forever to comeback online, and the Finder or other Apple app will beach ball requiring a force quit or reboot???

I wonder if Apple is screwing with the drivers in anticipation of the Mac Pro. Specifically to implement a fusion drive using an external HDD.
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post #61 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Is the Sharp Thunderbolt or HDMI? Traditionally computer monitors have higher resolution than TVs. Apple already makes monitors, so there is a natural expectation that they will eventually make a retina version, perhaps even more than 4k. Personally I think around 30" is a good size display for computing. I certainly don't want a 50" screen on my desk.

Here's a link to info on Dell's 32" 4K display.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/23/dell-ultrasharp-32/

It interfaces via DisplayPort and/or HDMI.

Why wouldn't Apple introduce their own 4K Monitor? My guess is that they have one in the works, but since it will use Thunderbolt 2 it's not ready.

In the meantime, 4K displays from Sharp, Dell, and others *should* work fine with the new Mac Pro...
post #62 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Just to add some meat this thread. here's a video by Michael Cioni. His company, Light Iron, does Post, DI, etc for movies like 42, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, Muppets... Michael is a talented creative, engaging speaker and has an amazing mind.

The entire video is a great watch, but at 13:42, Michael talks about the future of FCPX (I'd love to get his take on the Mac Pro).

http://vimeo.com/73797466


FWIW, I am going to buy a Mac Pro!

Thanks for that link. Very interesting to see a pro's perspective on Final Cut Pro X. Drives me crazy that he doesn't pronounce it "ten" though.
Edited by Flaneur - 10/24/13 at 9:20am
post #63 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

The pros already hate this circular Mac. They prefer rectangular boxes that they can pack with all sorts of CrossFire goodies and optical drives. Apple is going to a place that no one else wants to go to. It's like trying to put a round peg into a square hole. As awesome a design as it is, I doubt the world is ready for it. You can't change professional's minds overnight. Their heads are too used to working with rectangular boxes. I'm sure the critics and pundits have already made the decision that this circular Mac Pro will be Apple's ultimate failure. It's too expensive and too radical design for anyone to understand.

I'd love to own a high-end Mac Pro, but although I can afford one I have absolutely no need for a computer this powerful. I know the entire computing industry is laughing at Apple for creating a circular desktop computer. Wall Street is ready to downgrade Apple because they're already sure Apple will lose a ton of money on this Mac Pro as it's too expensive for consumers. It looks like this Mac Pro will further increase the doom predictions for Apple.
Wall Street doesn't know shit about the future of pro computers or apple. And pros have not all decided to hate round computers. Doom predictions for apple are made by idiots. Apple's the most profitable company in the world, where is the doom????? The Mac Pro will sell very well and will change pro computing forever. Stop trying to fight it.
post #64 of 170
White keyboard and mouse? Still?

With the iMac, and Mac Pro, laptops, and Thunderbolt display and Mac Mini all being black (or silver-and-black at least) now?

Long past time to make the external keyboards match the laptop keyboards. In silver-and-black.
post #65 of 170
WHere's all the WIRES?? I get the wireless keyboard and mouse but I didn't know the screen and macPro are wireless as well!
post #66 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by donw35 View Post

want = yes, need = not realy, I realy want to see it and read the experiences of real users, side by side tech stuff. 3k is a little steap to jump in blindly

What's funny about your statement is that for the longest time since personal computers came on the scene, $3,000 for a computer (without monitor/printer) was NORMAL.  The original Mac 128 was $2,495 and you think that $3,000 is steep for this?

 

I think people have been spoiled by the prices of computers being so cheap.  

post #67 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill42 View Post

WHere's all the WIRES?? I get the wireless keyboard and mouse but I didn't know the screen and macPro are wireless as well!

What are you talking about?  The Thunderbolt ports are to connect to the monitors.  It can handle up to 3 4K displays or up to 6 Thunderbolt displays and you also have a HDMI port as well.

post #68 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You have a serious oerception problem. This is a machine. It really hardly matters what it looks like,

Cars are a machine too, yet the #1 purchase differentiator is color.

 

If you really believe that the looks are not a major factor in purchasing, it's clearly yourself that has the "serious perception problem"

post #69 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

 

That screen from the keynote is talking only about the PCIe SSD storage. The stick is user-replaceable.

 

Also,

 

 

“That’s no desktop… that’s a workstation.”
“It’s too small to be a workstation…”

 

Can't wait to see the keyboard for this thing...if it looks like the keys on Vader's chest.

post #70 of 170
Component porn 1smile.gif The disassembled parts of the Mac Pro look like parts of Darth Vader's mask.

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post #71 of 170
I am not convinced by this airflow arrangement, the specs on this wee beastie call for ~470W maximum, now that's a lot of heat to dissipate from just one fan. My guess is that, once again, Apple will push the thermal envelope to it's very maximum, reducing the lifespan ultimately. Also don't expect the dB's to stay low on full throttle.
post #72 of 170

at least with this baby, you can stuff one (or two!) in your suitcase coming back from that DisneyWorld trip....

post #73 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by davida View Post
 

Not possible. The 7 display outputs (6 Thunderbolt + HDMI) requires two GPUs.

 

Then optionally don't put display on one of the sets of Tbolt outputs.

post #74 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearless View Post

It's hard to know which Pro market this is aimed at, since it's really a steroid-enhanced Mac Mini. It's useless until you spend thousands of dollars on external storage, or new devices, like an Atto Thunderlink and a bunch of adapters, to connect to storage you already own. Add a video IO device like an Ultrastudio or IO XT, a non-matching keyboard and mousy thing and the designer desktop is crawling with plugs, wires, humming power bricks and multi boards, and the bank account is drained of dosh, with barely half heading for Apple. Whereas the bulky, cumbersome old school tower needed one plug, contained an SSD and 12TB on board, and sat under, not on, the desk.

So if you're running tiny apps on small jobs,fine, FCP X using AVCHD or 5D or something. At that level it's a bit prosumer, like cutting on an iMac . Let's hope it's insanely faster than anything else in a box, and runs Resolve using 5K RED media at full debayer quality via some Sonnet box, and that its pair of FirePros beats a Cubix stuffed with GTX680s. Who knows, it might beat a 12-core. Or next year's version might. If it can, I'll be its biggest fan.

Have you seen this:



http://www.fcp.co/hardware-and-software/pro/1265-the-big-mac-pro-video-roundup-including-a-short-glimpse-of-the-future-of-fcpx-with-multicam-4k


It is from some real hands on the Mac Pro after the preso.

It shows multicam editing of 16 4K angles!

Also view the Michael Cioni video @13:42 in:

http://vimeo.com/73797466

It is interesting that Michael opines that a major advantage of FCPX is that it doesn't try to satisfy everyones needs in a single offering (like MS Office). Rather, through the FCPX APIs, thousands of 3rd-partiy developers can provide features and customizations. He even equates that to the app store for iPhones and iPads.

The premise is that technology changes faster than the software can be updated to exploit it. This is mitigated by allowing 3rd parties to provide extensions to FCPX . These efforts can be focused on the extension -- and need not concern themselves with maintaining, modifying, testing and releasing an update to the FCPX base code.

This might be Apple taking the the same approach with the Mac Pro.
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post #75 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post
 

Cars are a machine too, yet the #1 purchase differentiator is color.

 

If you really believe that the looks are not a major factor in purchasing, it's clearly yourself that has the "serious perception problem"

And the body style is important......  So is fit and finish.   Each person puts importance on different factors when making a buying decision.  Some put price as #1 most important, while others put reliability, ease of use, support, build quality, etc.

 

Everyone has their own laundry list and priority of each aspect that's considered.

post #76 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2an View Post

How is this hands-on?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post
 

You call this "hands on"!?!? LOL!

 

 

Well, their hands were totally on the keyboard when they wrote this.  :lol:

post #77 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post

I am not convinced by this airflow arrangement, the specs on this wee beastie call for ~470W maximum, now that's a lot of heat to dissipate from just one fan. My guess is that, once again, Apple will push the thermal envelope to it's very maximum, reducing the lifespan ultimately. Also don't expect the dB's to stay low on full throttle.

 

That's a nice upsell for AppleCare.

But since there's little room for expansion, it shouldn't heat up as much, right? Maybe adopt some type of Dyson technology to funnel up the hot air.

post #78 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearless View Post

It's hard to know which Pro market this is aimed at, since it's really a steroid-enhanced Mac Mini. It's useless until you spend thousands of dollars on external storage, or new devices, like an Atto Thunderlink and a bunch of adapters, to connect to storage you already own. 

So a $30 Thunderbolt-to-FireWire adapter won't work?

 

Switch to decaf for a bit.

post #79 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

The pros already hate this circular Mac. They prefer rectangular boxes that they can pack with all sorts of CrossFire goodies and optical drives. Apple is going to a place that no one else wants to go to. It's like trying to put a round peg into a square hole. As awesome a design as it is, I doubt the world is ready for it. You can't change professional's minds overnight. Their heads are too used to working with rectangular boxes. I'm sure the critics and pundits have already made the decision that this circular Mac Pro will be Apple's ultimate failure. It's too expensive and too radical design for anyone to understand.

I'd love to own a high-end Mac Pro, but although I can afford one I have absolutely no need for a computer this powerful. I know the entire computing industry is laughing at Apple for creating a circular desktop computer. Wall Street is ready to downgrade Apple because they're already sure Apple will lose a ton of money on this Mac Pro as it's too expensive for consumers. It looks like this Mac Pro will further increase the doom predictions for Apple.

Apple is domed™
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post #80 of 170

Again, I am missing the 'hands on' part of this article? This is nothing but a regurgitation of features/benefits. There is no actual user experience reported! 

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