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Carl Icahn says he'll consider shareholder proxy vote if Apple rejects his buyback plan - Page 2

post #41 of 153
Carl is in for a BIG surprise.......I have held Apple stock for years and I will vote with the Board!
post #42 of 153

As I said this is going to get bad for Apple, Instead of management focus on getting new great products into consumers hands, they will be wasting time dealing with Icahn.

 

His move will just drive up the % of what institutions will own and giving them more power to drive apple to do what they want which is make the metrics look good so they can manipulate the stock price more. There was time where the market drove companies to split their shares so that the same institutions could hold more of that companies stock, now the move is to do a reverse split or buy back so the price is so how it limits who can actually buy it.  Apple can achieve a higher price if that is what people want by just doing a reverse split. Icahn want Apple to have less money in the bank. Money is power, apple has F-U money in the bank and can pretty much do what they want without anyone trying to tell them what to do.

post #43 of 153

A buyback is Apple investing in itself.

 

What better company should Apple invest in?

 

Look at the massive failure with Google buying Motorola.

Hewlett-Packard's Acquisition of Autonomy

Microsoft and aQuantive

Hewlett-Packard and Palm

AOL Time Warner

 
post #44 of 153
Carl is in for a BIG surprise.......I have held Apple stock for years and I will vote with the Board!
post #45 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

As I said, if Tim agrees I am all in. But none of us know what Tim has planned for the future and I for one trust him over you, Carl or anyone else, to know what Apple have planned. To say a small group of shareholders 'know what's best' is just silly.

I agree. I'll back Tim Cook to the hilt.
post #46 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
 

As I said this is going to get bad for Apple, Instead of management focus on getting new great products into consumers hands, they will be wasting time dealing with Icahn.

 

His move will just drive up the % of what institutions will own and giving them more power to drive apple to do what they want which is make the metrics look good so they can manipulate the stock price more. There was time where the market drove companies to split their shares so that the same institutions could hold more of that companies stock, now the move is to do a reverse split or buy back so the price is so how it limits who can actually buy it.  Apple can achieve a higher price if that is what people want by just doing a reverse split. Icahn want Apple to have less money in the bank. Money is power, apple has F-U money in the bank and can pretty much do what they want without anyone trying to tell them what to do.

 

So the board and CEO/CFO can only focus on one thing at a time?  Beyond ridiculous.  Its not impossible to run an innovative business AND have a good capital allocation plan.  IBM has been doing this for decades. Warren Buffet has been doing this for decades.

post #47 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

A buyback is Apple investing in itself.

What better company should Apple invest in?

Look at the massive failure with Google buying Motorola.


Hewlett-Packard's Acquisition of Autonomy







Microsoft and aQuantive







Hewlett-Packard and Palm







AOL Time Warner




 







Apple is already buying back as THEY see fit, not as an greedy OUTSIDER see fit.
post #48 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Good point.  But neither Tim nor the Board of Directors own Apple.  The shareholders do and they have a right to demand a captial allocation plan that benefits shareholder value.

My point is you simply don't know enough to make such a call. You could inhibit some far better plan that is in the works for some of that money. It comes down to trust in the end.
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post #49 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Good point.  But neither Tim nor the Board of Directors own Apple.  The shareholders do and they have a right to demand a captial allocation plan that benefits shareholder value.
Tim and the Board are shareholders.

Isn't letting Apple's mgmt do what's best for Apple benefitting shareholders the most?

For the record, I will vote against the plan.
post #50 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben View Post
 

Buyback (not 150 B) at a good pace should lower the float and they would not have to pay dividend to shareholders for the number of shares they buy which saves money!

 

Also Apple needs to think about what they will do with such a boost in company's cash in years ahead. They need to plan ahead!

They should buy some really great companies for free cash flows. Bring out Apple payment system and crush the CC companies over a long run. Lot can be done but I guess they are so slow towards service side of business!

 

Icahn can be good for shareholders for short term but Apple needs to do their own thing in benefit for the long term holders!  I do not mind share price hitting $1000 by itself rather than hitting 1250 as Carl mentioned!

I am happy Icahn brought in such notice, at least some of the lazy board members will wake up or and do something good now or get fired! 

 

Finally someone with reason.  Its like people see a Wall Street guy and assume he's always a crook.

 

I'm all for using the cash to acquire companies.  But Apple can't just sit on the cash and do nothing with it.  In this ZERO interest rate environment the shareholders are literally losing BILLIONS of dollars a month because the cash is lying dormant in Money market accounts.

post #51 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


My point is you simply don't know enough to make such a call. You could inhibit some far better plan that is in the works for some of that money. It comes down to trust in the end.

 

I would love to see this 'plan' and what they will do with $800,000,000,000 in the next 10 years.

post #52 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Dell had a colapsing business model.  Plus a lot to the buybacks were done during the dot.com era.

HP just like Dell.

Microsoft buybacks were done during the dot.com era also.

 

All three had terrible valuations when the buybacks were done

I don't know if MS has ever had a *terrible* valuation. But, if memory serves, they started doing it to offset stock options for employees. As for HP and Dell, they also started before their valuation became *terrible*. Bottom line, it is rare (if ever) for a company to repurchase shares on the scale Icahn is proposing (relatively speaking because, in absolute terms, it would be unprecedented) when the valuation is still quite impressive.

post #53 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Finally someone with reason.  Its like people see a Wall Street guy and assume he's always a crook.

I'm all for using the cash to acquire companies.  But Apple can't just sit on the cash and do nothing with it.  In this ZERO interest rate environment the shareholders are literally losing BILLIONS of dollars a month because the cash is lying dormant in Money market accounts.

Ha. Ha. All these experts who know what Apple should do. If only SJ's still around to say FU to their faces.
post #54 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

That took almost 20 years... Icahn(t) wants Apple to buy back ⅓ of the company in one day! Apple is already purchasing $100 billion over the next few years, why can't this moron be happy with that? If you don't like the way the company is being run, why the f@#k did he invest in the first place?


He doesn't give a sh!t about Apple, h
e is obviously just trying to grab as much cash from APPL as he can.

Sorry folks, but wish Apple's stock would completely tank to the point that Apple could buy back all their shares and take the company private. This market/investor crap is just getting stupid as far as Apple is concerned and really needs to be taken out of the equation.

You're talking crazy talk, to suggest AAPL's price should crash just so Apple would "take the company private". That's literally insane.
post #55 of 153
I will just say you put an investor on your board your company will go down the drain.
post #56 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

I don't know if MS has ever had a *terrible* valuation. But, if memory serves, they started doing it to offset stock options for employees. As for HP and Dell, they also started before their valuation became *terrible*. Bottom line, it is rare (if ever) for a company to repurchase shares on the scale Icahn is proposing (relatively speaking because, in absolute terms, it would be unprecedented) when the valuation is still quite impressive.

 

I meant terrible as in a very high PE.  The stocks were bought when they were not cheap (1998-1999)

post #57 of 153
I think Apple should buy back Icahn's shares and let him take his money elsewhere. Apple doesn't need a bully like him telling them how they should run the company.
post #58 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

In 10 years Apple will have $700B in cash

WTF are they going to do with all that cash?

 

This is a good question. I hope they have something crazy in mind. Something really crazy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

It should go back to the investors in dividends and buybacks if they don't have any good use of it.  

 

It "should"? Why should it? A company can choose to give back what it deems appropriate. But unless it is written in the SHA (or the law), shareholders are not entitled to anything.

 

 

post #59 of 153

I am not convinced. This shareholder would vote no on a $150 Billion buyback.

post #60 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post


Ha. Ha. All these experts who know what Apple should do. If only SJ's still around to say FU to their faces.


Steve Jobs never got to see so much cash. So I say FU to your comment :lol:

 

Once even Warren Buffett mentioned to SJ about buying back when Apple had significantly low cash reserve compared to now :p

post #61 of 153

Icahn needs to be forcibly kicked out as an Apple investor.

post #62 of 153

I can't pretend to know if a buyback is a good thing or a bad thing for the health of the company. I do know that the company is already healthy and has been doing fantastic. I also know that if Tim Cook gives in to this guy's bullying tactics, it will weaken the company. And as everyone else has pointed out, Icahn does not have the health of the company as his concern. It is his financial gain that is his concern.

 

Cook has proven he is kind and not a jerk. Let's hope he is strong too.

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post #63 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben View Post


Steve Jobs never got to see so much cash. So I say FU to your comment lol.gif

Once even Warren Buffett mentioned to SJ about buying back when Apple had significantly low cash reserve compared to now 1tongue.gif

He always says FU to greedy investors so it's more likely to be you

And again Warren Buffet told Tim to ignore Carl Icahn.
post #64 of 153

As Warren Buffet stated:  IGNORE ICAHN.   And Buffet is a smarter, far better and wealthier investor than Icahn.

post #65 of 153

How about Apple just buys Icahn's shares.

post #66 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Finally someone with reason.  Its like people see a Wall Street guy and assume he's always a crook.

I'm all for using the cash to acquire companies.  But Apple can't just sit on the cash and do nothing with it.  In this ZERO interest rate environment the shareholders are literally losing BILLIONS of dollars a month because the cash is lying dormant in Money market accounts.

I'll concede that last point. I'd rather they didn't waste it on large acquisitions though (other than buying Google and Samsung and closing them ... kidding). I have a feeling they will be and are spending a lot on infra structure of all kinds behind the scenes. Don't get me wrong I want to see APPL at $1,000 for sure. If Tim agrees with you and he might that's fine with me. I just don't want for Tim to be seen to even listening to corporate raiders' advice.
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post #67 of 153

Apple needs to just ignore this guy. Us as commenters need to avoid these articles as well. Our clicks and comments are just giving him a voice he shouldn't have. News sites will cater to whatever gives them the most clicks so we do have some power. I'm not going to click on another Icahn article ever.

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post #68 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

How about Apple just buys Icahn's shares.

There you go ... 1biggrin.gif
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post #69 of 153
Screw that old fart. He is so greedy it hurts. We have almost no great American companies left. This b**** just wants to take the money and run like so many.
And besides, the value is what the consumer bring to the table. And that's the nearly 150 billion in Apple's bank account.
post #70 of 153

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post #71 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post
 

Apple needs to just ignore this guy. Us as commenters need to avoid these articles as well. Our clicks and comments are just giving him a voice he shouldn't have. News sites will cater to whatever gives them the most clicks so we do have some power. I'm not going to click on another Icahn article ever.

Yes and no. We can't put our heads in the sand. But the overwhelming response of NO to the idea proposed is a good message to send also.

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post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post


He always says FU to greedy investors so it's more likely to be you

And again Warren Buffet told Tim to ignore Carl Icahn.

read my Previous comment before barking :lol:

I know Buffett mentioned to Ignore but that buyback was mentioned when SJ was alive and Apple was not doing any buyback at that time. Also go and read my first comment on this thread. I am not all about Icahn 150B buyback :p 

 

Edit: BTW I am holding 2014 2015 Apple calls from $420 area,  I am making good money. Greedy me? No Happy me ;) 

post #73 of 153
Apple's plan to purchase shares overtime will increase the stability of the stock and slowly allow it to increase. I'm sure if Apple purchased $150B tomorrow there would be a massive gain then a sharp plummet as everyone cashed out only to start the up down cycle again. This purchase would also likely mean the end on dividends. I prefer the sustainable increase in stock value and dividends than the one time increase not matter how massive that might be.
post #74 of 153
Hope Steve isn't watching. Sickening.
post #75 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Finally someone with reason.  Its like people see a Wall Street guy and assume he's always a crook.

 

I'm all for using the cash to acquire companies.  But Apple can't just sit on the cash and do nothing with it.  In this ZERO interest rate environment the shareholders are literally losing BILLIONS of dollars a month because the cash is lying dormant in Money market accounts.

 

You mean as opposed to shareholders losing billions of dollars by making interest payments on an $150B loan?  Or alternatively, losing tens of billions of dollars in taxes for repatriating foreign cash? It's these losses that would actually be "LITERAL".  You're misusing the word "literally", keeping the cash in the bank is not a "literal" loss, it's an opportunity loss.  But even so, give all that money back to the shareholders and they'll more than likely squander it away, Apple has a much better track record at being fiscally responsible than the average American citizen (or even institutions for that matter).  In reality it's probably a much smaller opportunity cost than the very real cost of making interest payments or paying the repatriation tax.

post #76 of 153

Why did Carl invest in Apple if he didn't trust Apple to make good decisions? If he doesn't wants to keep his money in his pocket he should do it.

post #77 of 153

All Carl's 'wonderful' advice has ever done is plunder companies for his personal benefit and wreck them. Thousands if not millions of people unemployed as a result of it. It is in Apple's best interest is to do the opposite of what this scumbag suggests.

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post #78 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

So the board and CEO/CFO can only focus on one thing at a time?  Beyond ridiculous.  Its not impossible to run an innovative business AND have a good capital allocation plan.  IBM has been doing this for decades. Warren Buffet has been doing this for decades.

First go talk to any company that Icahn did this to in the past where he gets some level of control over stock.  Then used this to influence what the company does, and before you know they management spends more time dealing with him than focusing on what the company should be doing. He claims to help company and he keeps staying he helped so many companies but never cite any examples of a company which is far better today because he was a concerned investor. He destroyed Motorola, it is no longer a giant in the market, why because management spent more time dealing with him verse trying to figure out how to deal with Apple and the various treats they were coming at them. He was more interest in them splitting and selling pieces of the company so he could make a 20% to 30% return in a short period of time.

 

If Icahn was long on apple I believe is return will be greater, but he is only interested get a short term gain so he can use that money to mess with another company. Warren Buffet does not do that, he actually goes after company which are hurting and get them turned around, that is what he richer than Icahn and Warren Buffet son is worth more than Icahn because they see things longer term not the fast buck.


Edited by Maestro64 - 10/25/13 at 12:31pm
post #79 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Bravo.  I have a small stake (300 shares) and I'll vote yes to $150B buyback.

 

Let the shareholders decide.

One reason I have invested (2000 shares) in Apple is I like the way they run the business and their long term focus - so I don't favor someone like Icahn with his self interest gains to be applying pressure on the board.  I'd rather see Apple keep working the way they are than some short term gain I might see.  The world doesn't need another run of the mill company out there.

post #80 of 153
Tim Cook never should have given him the time of day. Steve Jobs would never have taken this guy's call much less "have lunch" with him. Carl Icahn may have made a recent windfall from Netflix but he also took it in the shorts with Blockbuster (long after everyone else bailed out) and let's not forget - this man bankrupted Marvel. MARVEL!
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