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Robotic testing finds touchscreen inaccuracies at edge of iPhone display - Page 2

post #41 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

This may well be the most on point response.

Only from an ignorant perspective
post #42 of 147
"Sorry,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

What are the results of the GS4 and Notes?

"Sorry, we weren't paid to test those devices."

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #43 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I saw in another thread that you were also having trouble with the Touch ID sensor. Are by chance a guitar player with callouses? Suffer from cold hands?

Maybe you should make a video showing us these problems. Otherwise we have no way to judge your credibility.

Careful calling others on their credibility. It's not hard bringing up your past fictional masterpieces to remind us of your credibility.
post #44 of 147
When will people understand that "I've never seen this problem" means nothing?

I don't make up stories in a forum. That doesn't mean there aren't people like Flaneur who do.
post #45 of 147
post #46 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

What I've seen in iPhone 5 and 5s (but not in 4S and previous versions) is a greater probability of trying to type M, L or N and ending up deleting the previous character instead.

It's about time this type of testing is done and reported.

Have to say, I have experienced this on occasion. Thought it was an adjustment to getting used to the 4" screen, bit still persists a year later. The biggest issue is m and the 🔙 key. M's end up missing an awful lot.
post #47 of 147
I had a very hard time trying to find a problem typing any characters around the edge. I wonder if this is something that only applies to screens form a specific supplier.
post #48 of 147

I play the EA Scrabble app on my iPhone a lot, and I've been playing for years.  I have recently had "trouble" selecting the leftmost tile from the tray.  I just looked into this more carefully in my 5s and touches that appear to be well within the bounds of the tile rectangle but left of center often fail to work.  The tile's only a little smaller than iPhone app icons, so they should be easy to tap every time.  So there is clearly something wrong--with something.  It could very well be the latest version of the Scrabble app or it could be a sensor problem or an iOS7 problem.  I'll try it on my iOS 6 iPhone 4s tonight.  If it has the same problem there, I'll chalk this up to an application bug (wouldn't be the first).  If not, there might be something to this report.

 

I mention this in case people want to test their own phones and they have the Scrabble app handy.

post #49 of 147

Conclusion?

 

Android:  great phone for robots

iPhone:  great phone for humans

Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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post #50 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

What I've seen in iPhone 5 and 5s (but not in 4S and previous versions) is a greater probability of trying to type M, L or N and ending up deleting the previous character instead.

 

It's about time this type of testing is done and reported.

I didn't have any problems on my 3GS. But on my iPhone 5, I would always hit backspace instead of M. I thought it was me. Strange thing is, I just checked on my 5S (just picked up this morning) and I'm not having any problems at all. I'd be interested in seeing the sample size they used. It might just be a problem with a handful of devices and not something widespread. 

post #51 of 147
Hmm seems to me that this is a lot of FUD. The active region is the keyboard area so why would anyone expect less. And it's custom software that happens to report that the competition is 100% perfect.

No chance this is a rigged test of course.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #52 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73 View Post


Have to say, I have experienced this on occasion. Thought it was an adjustment to getting used to the 4" screen, bit still persists a year later. The biggest issue is m and the 🔙 key. M's end up missing an awful lot.

Yup. I am reasonably certain that I didn't see this problem with 4 and 4S. But started seeing it with 5 and now 5s. 

post #53 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Example, the new swipe left to delete in email, constantly must redo. Ususally end up accidently opening the mail. Im also seem to be tapping multiple times to open something. That was not the case on the 4s(ios6).

Whether this is 'just me', new to iphone 5 screen or is it an iOS7 issue, dunno.

Is it overwhelming enough to take the phone back etc-no; is it noticable and can be a bit irksome-for me yes.


This has been happening to me on my iPhone 4S, but only after upgrading to iOS 7. Maybe part of the problem is iOS 7?

post #54 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2fusion View Post

On my 5s I did notice some inaccuracies when running 7.0.2 but they seemed to disappear with 7.0.3 just like the calibration and motion issues with this release.  Just did the "p" and "q" test without a problem and the "now playing" button works ok too.  People with the issue, what version are you using?

I just went to 7.0.3 last night.
post #55 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWilson View Post
 

I didn't have any problems on my 3GS. But on my iPhone 5, I would always hit backspace instead of M. I thought it was me. Strange thing is, I just checked on my 5S (just picked up this morning) and I'm not having any problems at all. I'd be interested in seeing the sample size they used. It might just be a problem with a handful of devices and not something widespread. 

Maybe you and I share the same genetic disease :)

post #56 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


Only from an ignorant perspective

Because real world actual biological fingers being the designed input signal can be accurately simulated by a robotic single-point mechanical pointer?

 

Not really.

 

That's a great stylus input metric, biological fingers? Different system design. 

No doubt my 90's Palm Titanium PDA would have loved that test. But it's no longer the 90's.

post #57 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


Careful calling others on their credibility. It's not hard bringing up your past fictional masterpieces to remind us of your credibility.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

When will people understand that "I've never seen this problem" means nothing?

I don't make up stories in a forum. That doesn't mean there aren't people like Flaneur who do.

 

Geez, do you have to be so personal with him? He is hardly the only one who enjoys sounding like an expert. Just let people have their fun.

post #58 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by sd-diver View Post

The only problem I seem to have is occasionally hiring backspace when pressing the m key. Maybe 10% of the time on my 5s. On the 5, more like 3%

 

I'm having this problem on my iPhone 4S, probably close to the same percentages as you, but I'd say 10% of the time after upgrading to iOS 7, and 3% when using previous versions of iOS. Not sure if it's a software glitch or if it's just that the location of keys changed slightly in iOS 7.

post #59 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

When will people understand that "I've never seen this problem" means nothing?

I don't make up stories in a forum. That doesn't mean there aren't people like Flaneur who do.

That adds to the sample size: otherwise the observed sample is biased to the negative observations alone.

 

Data should cover the spectrum or it's rather useless and risks being highly misleading.

post #60 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

Because real world actual biological fingers being the designed input signal can be accurately simulated by a robotic single-point mechanical pointer?

 

Not really.

 

That's a great stylus input metric, biological fingers? Different system design. 

No doubt my 90's Palm Titanium PDA would have loved that test. But it's no longer the 90's.

A fair point, to an extent.

But, as I and others have pointed out, we are seeing problems (seemingly) related to the problems identified in this robotic test.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

That adds to the sample size: otherwise the observed sample is biased to the negative observations alone.

 

Data should cover the spectrum or it's rather useless and risks being highly misleading.

 

 

I disagree, again, to an extent. The discussion is about whether a problem exists and not about pervasiveness. Therefore, anecdotes about not seeing the problem doesn't add to and subtract from the existence of the problem. Some of us clearly notice issues. If you choose to ignore that and focus on those claiming no problem, then your method is flawed, with all due respect.

 

As Stelligent also pointed out, there are folks here who refute every single issue reported. That's just not an unbiased perspective.

post #61 of 147
Why wasn't the iPhone 5 included in the test? Two new Apple units and one older Samsung unit... Seems really odd, as usual with anti-Apple tests. Bad Samsung.
post #62 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

A fair point, to an extent.

But, as I and others have pointed out, we are seeing problems (seemingly) related to the problems identified in this robotic test.

 

 

I disagree, again, to an extent. The discussion is about whether a problem exists and not about pervasiveness. Therefore, anecdotes about not seeing the problem doesn't add to and subtract from the existence of the problem. Some of us clearly notice issues. If you choose to ignore that and focus on those claiming no problem, then your method is flawed, with all due respect.

 

As Stelligent also pointed out, there are folks here who refute every single issue reported. That's just not an unbiased perspective.

Neither is labeling a different experience/viewpoint "ignorant". Though it puts Stelligent into clear perspective.

post #63 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

Neither is labeling a different experience/viewpoint "ignorant". Though it puts Stelligent into clear perspective.

I agree with that. But that makes him (or her) arrogant and rude, not wrong.

post #64 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleUWF View Post

Why wasn't the iPhone 5 included in the test? Two new Apple units and one older Samsung unit... Seems really odd, as usual with anti-Apple tests. Bad Samsung.

I agree that the test samples make for an odd selection. But it doesn't mean the test was anti-Apple. It just happens that the results seem to show Apple in a lesser light. Do you label tests that show Apple in a good light to be anti-Samsung?

post #65 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallking View Post
 

 

I'm having this problem on my iPhone 4S, probably close to the same percentages as you, but I'd say 10% of the time after upgrading to iOS 7, and 3% when using previous versions of iOS. Not sure if it's a software glitch or if it's just that the location of keys changed slightly in iOS 7.

That's interesting. I don't recall experiencing this on 4S but that feels like a long time ago. The problems I have seen on 5 and 5s predate iOS7.

post #66 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkndrublic View Post

No problems here on my 5s dude. Are you having these issues on your 5c?  Just out of curiosity. 

My wife down't have her iPhone yet. FWIW she's leaning towards a 5 rather than a 5c.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #67 of 147
Qpqpqpqpqp... Seems to work just fine!
post #68 of 147
Here is a thought. Look at your hand. Now imagine a phone in it (right handed. Sorry soutpaws). What if part of this is intentional to compensate for the reach and curvature of your fingers as you use the display. So, in the area that is green, the face of your thumb is at the correct angle to the display. But outside of that area, you might want to bias the hit points in a different direction to compensate for the fact that your thumb is actually contorting to hit other areas, and different parts of your thumb are useful depending on where it touches. Maybe Apple is smarter than a robot that doesn't tap at odd angles.
post #69 of 147

i havee  problam tyyping wtih my iPhome 5S

 

send from my Samsung S4

Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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post #70 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

i havee  problam tyyping wtih my iPhome 5S

send from my Samsung S4

We have a winner! Don't forget the "[Post at 2pm ET]"
post #71 of 147
I think the test is flawed. Apple isn't designing for machines, but humans. The way you tap a certain area of the screen changes based on angle. For instance, try using an iPad upside down (where the screen hasn't rotated). You'll notice all of your hits are off. (We do this at trade shows a lot) This is because where your eye thinks your tapping and where you actually tap are different places due to distance for the source. Apple accounts for this where other operating systems do not. While they may be "technically" correct, when it comes to humans using the device, it's wrong.
post #72 of 147
Why isn't the iPhone 5 and 4S listed for comparison?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #73 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Hmm seems to me that this is a lot of FUD. The active region is the keyboard area so why would anyone expect less. And it's custom software that happens to report that the competition is 100% perfect.

No chance this is a rigged test of course.

 

You can't assume the keyboard is always in the same area on the screen.  If screen rotation is used, then the keyboard may be in different areas of the screen.  Nor is the keyboard the only place where people interact with the touch screen.  Uniform accuracy is a good thing for touch screens.  Possible solution:  "Just don't hold it that way" or "Just don't touch it there". :D

 

One would think that automated testing tools would be the most objective and unbiased method for testing accuracy and tolerances, since the robot doesn't personally care if it is testing an Apple or Samsung device.  Unless someone wants to claim that the robot was purposely set up to test the iPhone differently from the Samsung phone. :???: 


Edited by Haggar - 10/25/13 at 11:21am
post #74 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
 

"Just don't touch it there". :D

 

That seems to be good advice in many situations. Particularly here, where people are rather touchy.

post #75 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferBoi View Post

Here is a thought. Look at your hand. Now imagine a phone in it (right handed. Sorry soutpaws). What if part of this is intentional to compensate for the reach and curvature of your fingers as you use the display. So, in the area that is green, the face of your thumb is at the correct angle to the display. But outside of that area, you might want to bias the hit points in a different direction to compensate for the fact that your thumb is actually contorting to hit other areas, and different parts of your thumb are useful depending on where it touches. Maybe Apple is smarter than a robot that doesn't tap at odd angles.

So Apple (or you) is 100% sure everyone will hold and tap the device at the angle they predict?

post #76 of 147

Loving my 4s more and more :)

post #77 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

When will people understand that "I've never seen this problem" means nothing?

I don't make up stories in a forum. That doesn't mean there aren't people like Flaneur who do.

Yep, don't know about "stories," but I sometimes try to make up for a general lack of imagination among a group of people who seem to have spent their lives in front of screens and keyboards. Seems to me they way outnumber the cause-and-effect thinkers, and only trade in memes.

Not that there aren't a lot of very intelligent people here. A few of them are in this thread. So what's your problem with "heuristic"?
Edited by Flaneur - 10/25/13 at 11:48am
post #78 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

From the report:
"Everybody can do this same test with a real device. For example: you can try to tap the letter P
(English keyboard) when your finger is close to the right side of the screen. In many cases smartphone
does not react to your tap because touch result is reported outside of the button (as seen on Image
6). Also letters I, O and P are not responding as well as letters E,R,T,Y and U because the touch
accuracy is not constant. This will cause extra typing errors that are not actually caused by the end
user but the smartphone. "
http://www.optofidelity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/OF_iPhone5C_vs_iPhone5C.pdf

Tried it on my 5 and my wife's 5S. ZERO problem.

post #79 of 147

Just tried on my 5S. Zero problems with any key in any orientation. Don't recall it being a problem on my 4S or 3GS, either. And I have fat fingers.

 

Good thing I'm not a robot!

post #80 of 147
A 1MM tolerance, that feels pretty tight. As a point of reference, my fingers register an approximately 10 MM surface area (4x3 with rounded corners). Seems like if the overall registration was off by 15% that software could correct for it.

The users comment about being glade she's not a robot isn't a "sheep" answer, it points out that if you look at the area of impact made by the testing apparatus it's not going to give you a clear indication of real world results. I can't make an impression that small without using a stylus.

Before you're head explodes and you lump me in with a blind apple follower, sure... more accuracy is probably better. I just think it's important to ask second level questions.

Such as:
Who is supplying the touch screens for these to Apple? I wonder if I yield has anything to do with it. If Apple uses multiple suppliers (i.e. Sharp, LG, Optronics) are the results consistent across them all?

Who paid for this study?

How many different iPhones/Samsungs were tested?

Where were both the iPhones and Samsung acquired? Consumer Reports doesn't let vendors give them test models, they go out and buy them from the retail channel for a reason.

Finally, let's say that apple's tolerance is 1.1MM and Samsungs is .9MM. If that was the case then the question isn't why did apple fail in this test, but should be "What is the appropriate tolerance?"

I've had time on the S3 and iP5, and ad more issues on the S3... but that's not exactly a comprehensive study. Nor is this report, at least by the summary provided in the article. Would love to hear from someone who specializes in this field, but of course Apple Insider doesn't do any investigating.
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