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Impressions: Working with Microsoft's Surface 2 & Type Cover 2 - Page 2

post #41 of 142
What this article really shows is that even though productivity software is available for surface (office) and iPad (iWork) that is not really what tablets, especially iPad, are being used for. iPad really is for entertainment, online purchases, gaming, keeping the kids quiet and specialized apps for doctors or text books etc. no one really uses tablets for major business spreadsheets etc. you still need a laptop or desktop for that. Microsoft can't beat iPad at entertainment so they will try selling the surface as a MS office work station but ultimately this will fail. I mean really, it's nice to be able to open a numbers spread sheet on an iPad occasionally if needed but for real creation of complex spreadsheets one will still need a laptop or desktop. And the same will be true for the surface and office.
post #42 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

Forgot to mention on the memory side that after the OS is installed your useable memory will be half, minus the office software and any apps.

Actually you can free up a lot of space by deleting the recovery partition, since the Surface has a full size USB you can put your recovery files onto a memory stick. Plus you get a lot of free space with Skydrive and you have Mini SD drive so it's not that bad. On my 64GB Windows 8 tablet, only 6GB was taken up by the OS and Office after I deleted my recovery partition, I have 56GB free internally, 64GB SD card and 125GB of SkyDrive. I don't see a problem with this.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #43 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

10" is more than enough to get work done, I've been using 11" on my MacBook Air for years and recently a 10" Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 which is an absolute joy to use Office on. I am able to achieve everything I need to in complete comfort. My iPad is strictly for entertainment purposes, which 4:3 seems to be perfectly fine for, I will never go back however using that aspect ration for spreadsheets though, you want a long screen for that, ugh I shudder the thought with going back to 4:3.

 

Almost every single monitor found in desktops and laptops today are 16:9, including Apples offerings, the iPad is unique with it's 4:3 screen ration, so I'm not sure what your talking about. Apple chose 4:3 because it seemed better suited for reading websites and eBooks on the iPad, not because it is a better working resolution or monitor manufacturers wouldn't have abandoned it years ago. Check for yourself, search for "NEW" 4:3 monitors and see how many you find.

 

Oh and welcome to the forum.

Every review I have ever read about a Surface, including this one, has mentioned how awkward 16:9 is for a tablet. If you want to use the Surface as a netbook, fine, but it's not a very good tablet. And I will continue to question the wisdom and truthfulness that a 10" or 11" screen from any manufacturer is an optimal choice for working on spreadsheets. Or that Office is a joy to use. And that the iPad is "for entertainment purposes only." That's an awful lot of MS-supplied cliches.

post #44 of 142
What a joke.

There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.
post #45 of 142
The impression I have after reading this article is that Surface 2 has an identity crisis, not entertainment enough to be an iPad nor productive enough as a laptop.
post #46 of 142
I don't understand the trackpad. The keyboard- great. Trackpad- why?

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
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post #47 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 I really don't why everyone thinks you need a keyboard when using a Surface. Even though I bought the keyboard dock for my Thinkpad Tablet 2 I have probably used it all of 5 times. They work just fine without it and I actually prefer using the onscreen keyboard. Which means they are tablets and not more of an Ultrabook unless the user defines that purpose for himself. 

Because MS's ads depict the Surface with a keyboard and specifically spotlights the "click" sound the keyboard and Surface makes when connecting.
post #48 of 142

I like that the Surface 2 was interesting enough for you to review and you make some good points.  For example it really is not the best for lap use especially if you are trying to use the touch cover.  Using it on a bed or anything not solid is also awkward.  It's possible, but not ideal.   I also agree that the desktop is a clunky remnant that needs to go away if the Modern UI is to become more streamlined and easy to use.

 

However, you seem to gloss over a lot of the strengths of the Surface.  You give the snapping of multiple apps a good view and do mention that is something it has over the iPad, but you seem to view the kickstand as more of a liability than a nice feature.  Sure it doesn't work well in every case, but I'm glad it's there and it's unobtrusive.  I'd rather have it than not and the iPad does not have it.

 

Dedicated USB port.  Plug in a mouse, keyboard, printer or a lot of other USB devices and it will work.  Flash drives work, game controllers work.  It's a great feature that the iPad does not have, but you glossed over it and even attempted to view it as a downside since it limits how thin the device can be.

 

Micro SD expansion is huge if you want to add additional space to your device or want to transfer some files to and from the device.  Like a USB flash drive it's something the Surface can do that that the iPad cannot do out of the box.  Also USB drives and the SD card work more or less how you would expect them to work in Windows.  

 

 

Built in micro HDMI.  Good if you want to connect your device to a TV or monitor.  Something you need to purchase a dongle for in order to do the same on the iPad.

 

Near the end you say, "But the iPad -- free of a keyboard, not reliant on USB accessories, and in a more handheld-friendly 4:3 screen ratio -- is not tethered to a desk. It's a dynamic device that can be used as a notebook if you really want it to be one. Or it can be something else."

 

You seem to have disregarded all the strengths of the Surface that you wrote earlier and turn them into strengths for the iPad.  The Surface does not need a keyboard, but you can get a nice one and it's great for using "real" Office with.  The Surface is anything but reliant on USB accessories.  I'd argue the iPad is more reliant on dongles to add features the Surface already has built in.  The Surface is not tethered to a desk.  You can use it as a tablet, you can use it on a desk.  The Surface in my opinion is the more dynamic device that can be used in more use cases.

 

A few days isn't enough to get a good feeling about a device you have never used.  Other use cases of the Surface were not mentioned.  For example using the micro HDMI you could connect your Suface to an external monitor.  Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you have a device that you could arguably use as your only device.  Unplug the hdmi connector and you're good to go out with the exact same device you were just a second ago using as a desktop.  

 

The Surface 2 also comes with 200GB of SkyDrive space for 2 years.  For those who are okay with living in the cloud that's huge.  It also has a year of international Skype, big if you call abroad.  The front facing camera has been improved as well for better video chats.

 

I give you credit for trying it out and also for not using the app count argument as one against the Surface.  In my opinion the apps are the weakest part of the Surface.  It's something that might improve as time goes on but right now there are too few apps... especially games.  You have some good points, but I think you have only scratched the surface of what the Surface 2 can do.  A few days really is not enough time to try to compare it to a device that people have been using for years.

post #49 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c View Post


Dedicated USB port.  Plug in a mouse, keyboard, printer or a lot of other USB devices and it will work.  Flash drives work, game controllers work.  It's a great feature that the iPad does not have, but you glossed over it and even attempted to view it as a downside since it limits how thin the device can be.

Tablets are meant to be portable. Why should I also carry a mouse, keyboard, printer(!). If I want to use them, I'd get an MBA.
post #50 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Tablets are meant to be portable. Why should I also carry a mouse, keyboard, printer(!). If I want to use them, I'd get an MBA.

 

You don't need to carry a mouse, keyboard or printer (printer?  really?).  Use those at home as a desktop and take just the tablet (and maybe one of the touch/type covers) with you when you go out.  The Surface can do that and depending on a person's needs can be their only device.

 

I know some people that do that.  One of them still uses a laptop because there is no iTunes on the Surface.

post #51 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

What a joke.

There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.

 

Exactly. It's like finding a market "in between" a truck and a car. It's going to suck at being either.

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post #52 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c View Post
 

 

You don't need to carry a mouse, keyboard or printer (printer?  really?).  Use those at home as a desktop and take just the tablet (and maybe one of the touch/type covers) with you when you go out.  The Surface can do that and depending on a person's needs can be their only device.

 

I know some people that do that.  One of them still uses a laptop because there is no iTunes on the Surface.


People still plug their printers in via USB? I've had a printer connected to my home network via Ethernet or Wi-Fi for quite a few years. I don't even remember the last time I actually connected a printer directly to a computer.

 

As for your point that a Surface can be a person's only device, depending on their needs, so can an iPad. With a bluetooth keyboard and a supported wireless printer you're in business. And as a bonus, mirror the display through Apple TV if you want/need a larger screen. No need for cables at all.

post #53 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyd View Post

It's amusing all the comments calling the review "objective" and "fair"...

Of course, Windows RT has its flaws, but the final "conclusion" of this review came down to a price comparison that was completely off-base.

$580 for a 32GB Surface and attachable TypeCover.
$570 for a 16GB iPad Air and a battery-powered Apple bluetooth keyboard.

That's comparing Apples to oranges.

It'd be $700 for a 32GB iPad Air and the Logitech keyboard the reviewer mentions.

And as for sacto joe's comment about the MacBook Air:
Why would someone looking at a Surface RT jump to a laptop without a touch screen?
Certainly you mean they'd be better off with a Surface Pro (which is cheaper than a MacBook Air) and still functions as a tablet with a Wacom-based Pen.

What is the useful storage on the"32 GB" Surface 2?
post #54 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Many of us have been saying that for a very long time. Tables are the escape from work, not the extension of it. Sure, you might check the company email, review a presentation or spreadsheet, but that is consuming content, not creating or modifying it, which has never been argued to be better on a tablet vs. notebook or desktop. 

Furthermore; until tables are able to easily dock, so that they have 24"-27" monitors keyboard/mouse/trackpad, they will not be used for real work. By this time we should be at the A8 or A9 level processors (although the A7 is quite capable) so the horsepower should be there also. Again, this won't replace your work notebook/desktop for the huge spreadsheets and other large tasks, but will allow you to also dock that work notebook into the above. 

I see the next iteration home computing having a central desk with the above peripherals that any member of the family can dock into when needed to do school work, banking, or career work. Gaming can be done there as well, but I see that moving to the Apple TV like devices. Monitors need replacing less often than devices. Overall, this will save money, be more personal, portable, and upgradable. 

If Microsoft was first in this space, they would have a real compelling ecosystem, as you can duplicate the above in most work environments  also. 

I see the next generation as an AirPlay Display with a wireless keyboard and mouse that are able to connect to any Apple device, iOS or OS X. No docking station. No wires. No hassle. Your iPad, your iPhone or your Mac are mobile workstations with a plethora of peripherals to enhance productivity.
post #55 of 142
  For example using the micro HDMI you could connect your Suface to an external monitor.  Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you have a device that you could arguably use as your only device.  Unplug the hdmi connector and you're good to go out with the exact same device you were just a second ago using as a desktop.  

I can do this with my ipad, or iphone too.
post #56 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 I really don't why everyone thinks you need a keyboard when using a Surface. Even though I bought the keyboard dock for my Thinkpad Tablet 2 I have probably used it all of 5 times. They work just fine without it and I actually prefer using the onscreen keyboard. Which means they are tablets and not more of an Ultrabook unless the user defines that purpose for himself. 

Well there is that whole question about what 'productive' is. Working on anything larger than a reply to a post on a board, I'm going to choose a keyboard. Screen size is not nearly as important to me as text size is. Being able to have two apps on screen can be nice, but isn't as necessary as you would think. I'm sure Apple is looking for a way to accomplish that on a small screen that isn't jarring. On my iMac, I might have 12 or 13 screens open at a time, but generally only on one at a time.

Apple has successfully managed the expectations of its customers. I think they are better at it than the Republican Party (masters of the game). I have a 27" iMac, an iPad (3) and an iPhone 5s. There are a few things I do on all three, a few more I will do on two of the three and quite a few I will prefer each one for separately. It's really cool that they are 'connected', as well with the Apple TV I have. I like knowing that if I 'need' to, there are access points between them. I like that they have a certain similarity between them, I like that when I need them to, they support each other. It's nice to kniw I can work on a spread sheet on my Mac, update it during my commute (public transportation) and show it to a client on my iPad.

Microsoft is trying to offer that same symmetry, which is cool. But what makes Apple cooler is the points of preferred separation.
post #57 of 142
Nice objective reviewing really appreciate it. One thing I can't stand right now is how when I type on the iPad, once I go past the touch keyboard, I no longer see the position field in which I am current typing...

Ok, major gripe aside...I love my iPads, I am restraining myself from buying the latter generation to add to my collection. I would REALLY like to see a "Pro" version come out in the next rollout. The iPad is in serious need of external media transfer of data (read: micro SIM card dammit). I particularly like how the surface DOES have the true multitasking, window operations...that blows the iPad out of the water in sheer productivity and practicality (am I really saying this...yes I am in the spirit of objectivity in hope of further consideration from the engineers that be). I have been majorly productive in my. iPad having churned out thick research papers in my graduate school days, animations and drawing for my classroom curricula, as an interactive surface in my one-to-one tutoring sessions, and as a small part in my music studio productions. Let me address the music studio side of things: Apple, let the iPad be seen as an AU external device within a host (take any one of the superb synths on the iPad and stick it in a dedicated Logic track, for example)...also the whole idea of cut/copy/pasting is tiresome and quite frankly lame, WTF: that is where the multi window paradigm starts making SUPER obvious sense. Currently there are just too many gesture operations involved just to more stuff from one app to the next. I, for one, am sick and tired (and at time creativity stifled, in having to do a myriad of these operations just to move my hard work and data from app A to app B.

Cheers
post #58 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

So the takeaway is that both iPads and Surface RT suck for trying to do productive work on, try Windows Pro?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

No, but thanks for playing.

 

 

 

Take it up with the author- it wasn't *my* conclusion, I just found his candor surprising....

 

Conclusions and thoughts
Let's be real: If you're serious about productivity, and your daily workflow is even moderately complex, you're not going to rely solely on either an iPad or a Surface in their current state...
the Windows tablet landscape shows there are many other competing tablets in the same price range that run full-fledged Windows...

post #59 of 142
So perhaps, if they could improve the trackpad on the keyboard, they'd have more of a winner? I agree with your issue - when you're on the keyboard, you generally want to stay on the keyboard, and not bring your hand up to the screen. Kinda what the late, great Mr. Jobs said himself when discussing touch screens on MacBooks.
post #60 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by KippleMaster63 View Post
 


People still plug their printers in via USB? I've had a printer connected to my home network via Ethernet or Wi-Fi for quite a few years. I don't even remember the last time I actually connected a printer directly to a computer.

 

As for your point that a Surface can be a person's only device, depending on their needs, so can an iPad. With a bluetooth keyboard and a supported wireless printer you're in business. And as a bonus, mirror the display through Apple TV if you want/need a larger screen. No need for cables at all.

 

I've had 1 case where there was a non wireless printer around and used my Surface to print.  It's not an everyday occurrence, but it's nice that the Surface can handle it.  Some hotels for example let you use their printers that are not wireless.  I use mine mostly for USB flash drives. 

 

Yeah, the iPad certainly can be used as a person's only device, it's just that I have never seen that happen.  I know maybe 20 people with iPads and none of them would ever consider using it as their only device.  I know about 5 people with Surfaces and for some it's their only device.  An hdmi adapter is a little cheaper than an Apple TV, though the Apple TV is no doubt far more useful.  Windows RT is also a bit more mouse friendly than iOS is.  Add that to being able to snap multiple apps side by side on multiple monitors and I think it makes it a more acceptable single device experience.  

post #61 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


What is the useful storage on the"32 GB" Surface 2?

 

It's supposed to be 18GB.  The original Surface's was 15GB.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/support/storage

post #62 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


I see the next generation as an AirPlay Display with a wireless keyboard and mouse that are able to connect to any Apple device, iOS or OS X. No docking station. No wires. No hassle. Your iPad, your iPhone or your Mac are mobile workstations with a plethora of peripherals to enhance productivity.

 

I'm not sure why you would want AirPlay instead of a direct connection to the monitor. Keyboard/mouse/trackpad would of course be wireless (do they make them wired anymore?). Even if you do AirPlay, your iPad will sit flat on your desk. If docked, you can still use it as a iChat screen or run an app, etc., and see it easily while you work. 

 

Also, I was talking more any player to this market, not just Apple. 

post #63 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdeep View Post

Ha! Have you ever tried to use Windows on a 10" screen with a pen? I challenge you to get through a whole day without throwing the device in the trash. Windows on small touch screen with a stylus is singularly one of the most frustrating and waste-of-time experiences known to man. It's just a bad concept. 

I'm thinking you haven't. I had a loan surface pro the other day, used it quite a bit with the stylus and with just finger touch. Had no problems at all
post #64 of 142

I just don't get it. I don't get why you would use a Surface, an iPad or any other tablet for serious productivity. The format is inherently unsuited to it. Just get a laptop.

 

Apple has got this right by pitching the iPad unashamedly as a content consumption device. Tablets suck for creating content and they probably always will. 

post #65 of 142
The article appears to lack a few critical considerations:

  • iPad is designed, developed and supported by Apple which offers market leading customer satisfaction and customer service in every market they serve.
  • iWork offers a collaborative iWork environment.
  • iCloud storage is effectively limitless for certain types of content; books, movies, music, podcasts, tv shows.
  • Perhaps most importantly, iPad users actually use their devices.
post #66 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post

  For example using the micro HDMI you could connect your Suface to an external monitor.  Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you have a device that you could arguably use as your only device.  Unplug the hdmi connector and you're good to go out with the exact same device you were just a second ago using as a desktop.  

I can do this with my ipad, or iphone too.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the iPad and dual monitors via hdmi or airplay can you use both monitors for separate functions and open up multiple apps or is it simple mirroring?  I haven't used an iPad since the 2 and I didn't get into trying to use it with an external monitor that much.  I know it can mirror to a monitor easily.

 

On the Surface you can snap apps side by side and with a dual monitor set up you can open up multiple apps across your external monitor and have separate apps on your Surface monitor or even open up the desktop on one of the monitors and use Office on a screen better suited for it.  I feel that feature is helpful and it's one of the main reasons I am not surprised when someone is able to use the Surface as their primary device.

post #67 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I'm not sure why you would want AirPlay instead of a direct connection to the monitor. Keyboard/mouse/trackpad would of course be wireless (do they make them wired anymore?). Even if you do AirPlay, your iPad will sit flat on your desk. If docked, you can still use it as a iChat screen or run an app, etc., and see it easily while you work. 

Also, I was talking more any player to this market, not just Apple. 

Why would anyone want the inconvenience or unpleasant aesthetics of wires?
Why does not docking imply that an iPad or iPhone is flat on a desk?

I was referring to Apple specifically. This would be an excellent strategy for Apple to provide a flourishing "desktop" operating system in the enterprise.

No one else has either the hardware or software that even approaches this possibility; Apple is two years from the ability to offer such a mobile "desktop class" workstation.
post #68 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Quote:
 Let's be real: If you're serious about productivity, and your daily workflow is even moderately complex, you're not going to rely solely on either an iPad or a Surface in their current state.

Many of us have been saying that for a very long time. Tables are the escape from work, not the extension of it. Sure, you might check the company email, review a presentation or spreadsheet, but that is consuming content, not creating or modifying it, which has never been argued to be better on a tablet vs. notebook or desktop. 

Furthermore; until tables are able to easily dock, so that they have 24"-27" monitors keyboard/mouse/trackpad, they will not be used for real work. By this time we should be at the A8 or A9 level processors (although the A7 is quite capable) so the horsepower should be there also. Again, this won't replace your work notebook/desktop for the huge spreadsheets and other large tasks, but will allow you to also dock that work notebook into the above. 

I see the next iteration home computing having a central desk with the above peripherals that any member of the family can dock into when needed to do school work, banking, or career work. Gaming can be done there as well, but I see that moving to the Apple TV like devices. Monitors need replacing less often than devices. Overall, this will save money, be more personal, portable, and upgradable. 

If Microsoft was first in this space, they would have a real compelling ecosystem, as you can duplicate the above in most work environments  also. 

I think that sometime within the next two years we're going to see a form factor that includes both an Intel chip and an ARM chip with touch capability as well as keyboard mouse/trackpad.
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post #69 of 142

After reading this article, sounds like surface 2 is actually better in all aspects, especially after you remove the bias that appleinsider has

post #70 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I'm not sure why you would want AirPlay instead of a direct connection to the monitor.

Because it's wireless and allows your iPad to be anywhere in WiFi range instead of a few feet of you TV?

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post #71 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Apple pulled a number on intel with the arm A7 64bit chip. Not only did the A7 "catch up" to intel, it surpassed them in performance (on some tests) while expanding the other set of advantages (efficiency, cost, etc).

It's safe to say that Qualcomm and others will keep improving, even if their chips are inferior to Apple (not only in performance but especially as a complete package), so ARM is stronger than ever.

More competition is always a good thing. I wouldn't call Qualcomm's ARM CPU's inferior to Apple's, they make pretty wonderful chips. The problem with comparing benchmarks here is that Apple controls both the software and hardware, if you were to put Qualcomm's newest, fastest chip in an iPhone I would have no doubt that it would perform as well or better. Just because the chip isn't 64bit means absolute nothing, frankly adding 64bit support to an ARM chip this early in the game is just marketing and pretty silly, especially when Apple hasn't even broken 1GB of ram yet. When phones and tablets start needing more than 3GB of memory than it would start making sense.

No!
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post #72 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

What a joke.


There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.

Exactly. It's like finding a market "in between" a truck and a car. It's going to suck at being either.

I think it's called a. "Furry with a syringe on top".
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post #73 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Why would anyone want the inconvenience or unpleasant aesthetics of wires?
Why does not docking imply that an iPad or iPhone is flat on a desk?

I was referring to Apple specifically. This would be an excellent strategy for Apple to provide a flourishing "desktop" operating system in the enterprise.

No one else has either the hardware or software that even approaches this possibility; Apple is two years from the ability to offer such a mobile "desktop class" workstation.

 

You have to have a power cable for the monitor and one for the tablet, so one from the monitor to the tablet, that is also power, is not tragic.  Why would someone want to send wireless when they can have the speed of wired just a foot away? 

 

Well if you are not going to dock, what were you thinking the placement of the tablet would be? A stand? If so, you would power cable the tablet in that stand would you not? If so, hey, you have a dock. Just take that power cable to the monitor instead of the wall. 

 

People have been docking notebooks for years, this tech is widely available, just not for the tablet market. What software? You dock, and what you have on your tablet you see on the monitor, just like people have been doing for many, many years with notebooks. 

 

Yes, as stated, Apple's A8 or A9 SOC will do just fine for most household work needs. 

post #74 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Because it's wireless and allows your iPad to be anywhere in WiFi range instead of a few feet of you TV?

 

What? TV? Who said anything about a TV? Are you suggesting people are going to work on large spreadsheets on their TV using an iPad?

 

I can't see sitting on a couch with an iPad and logitech keyboard in my lap while working on a presentation or spreadsheet or my photos, or anything like that. Where are you going to put the trackpad or mouse? 

post #75 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I think that sometime within the next two years we're going to see a form factor that includes both an Intel chip and an ARM chip with touch capability as well as keyboard mouse/trackpad.

 

I've posted before that we might see that in the notebook and desktop Macs, but I don't believe we'll see that, or need that, in the tablet space. 

post #76 of 142
Neil did a reasonably fair review, though still with an Apple slant (as it should be on an Apple site). When you speak of productivity and when factoring in price, you most certainly need to give more weight to the inclusion of USB (productivity) and microSD (value). To say this functionality can be "easily added with adapters" can be viewed as a poor (yet expensive!) excuse for not having it in the first place - from a productivity perspective.

I found it odd that when using the Surface as a desk-based computer your distaste for the trackpad forced you into using the touchscreen - what about a mouse? That's what productive people use.

IMO the two windows at once is VERY MUCH needed in tablets and I was pleased to see Neil agree. Even for non-productive purposes, how nice to have twitter on the left and a browser on the right (for example).

If the purpose of this article was to argue productivity, the Surface with RT isn't adequate obviously. Surface Pro for that.
post #77 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I don't understand the trackpad. The keyboard- great. Trackpad- why?

 

Failure of imagination?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #78 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

You have to have a power cable for the monitor and one for the tablet, so one from the monitor to the tablet, that is also power, is not tragic.  Why would someone want to send wireless when they can have the speed of wired just a foot away? 

Well if you are not going to dock, what were you thinking the placement of the tablet would be? A stand? If so, you would power cable the tablet in that stand would you not? If so, hey, you have a dock. Just take that power cable to the monitor instead of the wall. 

People have been docking notebooks for years, this tech is widely available, just not for the tablet market. What software? You dock, and what you have on your tablet you see on the monitor, just like people have been doing for many, many years with notebooks. 

Yes, as stated, Apple's A8 or A9 SOC will do just fine for most household work needs. 

I didn't realize your posts were sarcasm. My apologies.
post #79 of 142
Canceled. What's the use?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #80 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

So the takeaway is that both iPads and Surface RT suck for trying to do productive work on, try Windows Pro?
Or a laptop, they work better for such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyd View Post

It's amusing all the comments calling the review "objective" and "fair"...

Of course, Windows RT has its flaws, but the final "conclusion" of this review came down to a price comparison that was completely off-base.

$580 for a 32GB Surface and attachable TypeCover.
$570 for a 16GB iPad Air and a battery-powered Apple bluetooth keyboard.

That's comparing Apples to oranges.

It'd be $700 for a 32GB iPad Air and the Logitech keyboard the reviewer mentions.

And as for sacto joe's comment about the MacBook Air:
Why would someone looking at a Surface RT jump to a laptop without a touch screen?
Certainly you mean they'd be better off with a Surface Pro (which is cheaper than a MacBook Air) and still functions as a tablet with a Wacom-based Pen.
I think it $$$ for IPad wireless key. + Smart Cover and then $580 plus good surface RT cover be more valued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think it depends on what you classify as "productive work".     For some, it's using an Office app, for others it might be using a specialized app for a specific work related task.    I think if you consider "productive work" using Office apps, then you'd probably be correct on that assumption.   When i use a spreadsheet app, I use BIG spreadsheets and there is NO F=ing way I can look at my spreadsheets on a 10" screen or smaller.   I used to use a 17 monitor and then graduated to a 27inch, and guess what?   It's STILL not be enough.  I have to still scroll up and down as my spreadsheets are LARGE.  so, yea, for some people tablets still suck, BUT, for other productivity apps, they might be the perfect solution.  I've seen apps used in the video production industry that were iPad based and apparently the users think they are indispensable due to the nature of the app and how it works. It's actually a productivity app that's BETTER on a tablet than a laptop.  Light Iron is the developer of those apps.

So, I think it means what do you mean by a "productive work" or "productivity apps".  Hospital's are starting to use iPad based apps that are taking the place of laptops and desktops and from what I've read and heard, they are more productive with the iPad based apps than the traditional desktop/laptop based apps.
Try getting a hdmi and plug the thing into a TV, better now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

What a joke.

There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.
I would have said the same for phablets but maybe any computer like device might reach a point for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I'm not sure why you would want AirPlay instead of a direct connection to the monitor. Keyboard/mouse/trackpad would of course be wireless (do they make them wired anymore?). Even if you do AirPlay, your iPad will sit flat on your desk. If docked, you can still use it as a iChat screen or run an app, etc., and see it easily while you work. 

Also, I was talking more any player to this market, not just Apple. 
It be a option and etc., you can either way still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Because it's wireless and allows your iPad to be anywhere in WiFi range instead of a few feet of you TV?
Or have a 50 foot cord(perfurably retractable.

Microsoft has a ok device, good competitor to the weird who are thinking of IPad 2(many think $50 is way different than $100) bit IPad air can beat this.
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