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Impressions: Working with Microsoft's Surface 2 & Type Cover 2 - Page 3

post #81 of 142
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Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


I didn't realize your posts were sarcasm. My apologies.

 

Any post I are sarcastic in I use the /s

post #82 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post
 
It be a option and etc., you can either way still.

 

Anything can be, but why would you want to. If you have to have a cable to charge the iPad while on your desk, and why wouldn't you, then why not have that cable plug into the monitor for data anyway? Really? Why have two power cables (monitor and iPad) and then AirPlay from a foot away? Makes no sense. 

post #83 of 142
Wouldn't a comparison to an 11" Macbook Air been more interesting if you wanted to focus your review on "productivity and multi-window multitasking"...? I would much rather use an air which can dual boot Mac OS X and Windows and can comfortably be used on a lap.
This thing doesn't seem to do anything particularly well which is it's downfall. What's the point of it being a tablet if you need a keyboard and to sit it on a desk? Ironically, an actual Macbook Air seems more portable than this thing...
post #84 of 142
Surface's problems go above and beyond if it's productive enough or not. Not everyone drones away in an cubicle Office Space style. Microsoft Office interests me as much as stapling papers together and licking stamps.

The problems are pretty simple, and dire. They have no apps, their ecosystem is stitched together with little cohesion with their desktop systems, the OS itself is a frankenstein of two different interfaces each able to accomplish the same thing, nobody cares about tile world. Top it off their marketing is abysmal and their supporters are just as obnoxious as many of the crazies here if not more so because they are deluded into thinking Microsoft is still dominant.
post #85 of 142
"The Surface 2 also has a bigger screen than the iPad, though, measuring 10.6 inches with a 1080p high-definition resolution."

No it only has a wider screen not bigger, the surfaces screen is 38.95 in^2, the iPad while narrower has a diff screen ratio but it's size is 45.18 in^2.

That means the surface screen is only about 86% the size of the full size iPads, while the iPad mini is 77% the size of the surface.
post #86 of 142
The issue of having to charge a bluetooth keyboard is a non-issue for me. I have a Logitech keyboard cover and have only had to charge it around once every couple of months.
post #87 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

Honestly, I can't understand/agree with your post.

 

Apple pulled a number on intel with the arm A7 64bit chip. Not only did the A7 "catch up" to intel, it surpassed them in performance (on some tests) while expanding the other set of advantages (efficiency, cost, etc).

 

Since we are seeing Apple doubling performance each year, even if they "only" increase performance 50% this time next year, intel is totally behind on mobile. This is a different situation from what happens in the PC industry where Apple pushes the envelope and ditches discrete graphics on high end systems, so everyone follows the lead and intel gets a big boost because every OEM is behind their back.

 

It's safe to say that Qualcomm and others will keep improving, even if their chips are inferior to Apple (not only in performance but especially as a complete package), so ARM is stronger than ever.

 

 



I think that's missing my point. A7 doesn't help the Surface at all for one, and while I'm sure Qualcomm will get there soon the point is that Intel is already competitive with them. Short term, ARM chips may keep getting wins, but in the long view of Intels roadmap I think they'll dominate this space just like they dominated AMD. It's hard for anyone to compete with a company that can drop 5-6 billion on a new uarch and think nothing of it. Just ask AMD. 

post #88 of 142

Surface (RT and Pro) look like design school exercises to answer the challenge:  "Design a device that melds the best features of a tablet and a laptop".  The question though that is just as critical, and which probably didn't even occur to MS, is "Does such a design make sense?" or in Apple-speak "Does it deserve to exist?"

 

Can't really blame them for trying, MS was coming in late to the market, so they had to offer something unique and compelling.  They got the 'unique' part, the other part? -- Initial verdict is currently on appeal.

post #89 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

So the takeaway is that both iPads and Surface RT suck for trying to do productive work on, try Windows Pro?

Actually I think you meant to say Surface Pro which the MBA will trump for a number of reasons.
1. It really IS a laptop, which means it can be used on your lap and off of a desk. The Surface Pro cannot be used with its keyboard anywhere but on a surface.
2. The MBA can be booted up to run OSX and/or Windows 8.1 or 7.0 whatever you feel you need to be running at the time. The Surface Pro cannot run OSX, and more importantly for a company standardized on Win 7, The Surface Pro cannot run that previous system.
3. While the build quality of the Microsoft Surface Pro is probably high, as is the MBA, Other brands of Intel based tablets are of unknown quality. So in comparisons between Apple and Microsoft hardware, Apple will win out for having the highest-rated customer service in the industry.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #90 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


No!

Why not, you can't just answer no without a little information to back it up. Here is an example of the same CPU displaying different benchmarks on separate platforms. The Nexus 10 has a Sun Spider benchmark of 1384.1, the Samsung Chromebook XE303 is 711. As you can see there is a quite a difference when two different platforms are used, if a Qualcomm Snapdragon 800 processor was used in the Chromebook I have no doubt that the benchmarks would be as fast as the Apple iPhone 5s or faster. Using this this benchmark graph from AnandTech the Snapdragon is at 614.8 and the iPhone is 416, but the tests for the Qualcomm CPU was done on a Android phone, which is  perfect acceptable as the iPhone is a phone. Use a different platform though such as the Chromebook and it will be a whole different story. Yes, absolutely the iPhone 5s is probably the fastest Mobile, however the A7 is certainly not the fastest ARM CPU on the market and defiantly not,"inferior to Apple" as the poster I was replying to stated. If you look at the Surface 2 Sun Spider benchmarks which isn't an Android platform but has the newest Nvidia Tegra 4 CPU, the score it's 397 but another tablet with the Tegra 4 that is running Android,Toshiba Excite Pro is 837.1. Big difference again, so Android with it's virtual machine is defiantly the bottleneck for these benchmarks in which we are all seeing when compared to the Apple iPhone 5s.

 

I'm not down playing Apples A7 CPU, it's defiantly fast but I'm seeing a lot posts about how it's architecture is the fastest. This is just not the case.

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post #91 of 142
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Originally Posted by pmz View Post

What a joke.

There is no room in the market for a device that tries and fails to be "in between" pure tablet and laptop.

Well that's not true, for example; Asus, Lenovo, Acer and Samsung have many tablet/notebook hybrid offerings. The Surface is a tablet and not a hybrid though, the keyboard is an extra accessory, not needed for it's operation just like a Logitech bluetooth keyboard isn't needed for the iPad.

 

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post #92 of 142
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Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post
 

 

Many of us have been saying that for a very long time. Tables are the escape from work, not the extension of it. Sure, you might check the company email, review a presentation or spreadsheet, but that is consuming content, not creating or modifying it, which has never been argued to be better on a tablet vs. notebook or desktop. 

 

Furthermore; until tables are able to easily dock, so that they have 24"-27" monitors keyboard/mouse/trackpad, they will not be used for real work. By this time we should be at the A8 or A9 level processors (although the A7 is quite capable) so the horsepower should be there also. Again, this won't replace your work notebook/desktop for the huge spreadsheets and other large tasks, but will allow you to also dock that work notebook into the above. 

 

I see the next iteration home computing having a central desk with the above peripherals that any member of the family can dock into when needed to do school work, banking, or career work. Gaming can be done there as well, but I see that moving to the Apple TV like devices. Monitors need replacing less often than devices. Overall, this will save money, be more personal, portable, and upgradable. 

 

If Microsoft was first in this space, they would have a real compelling ecosystem, as you can duplicate the above in most work environments  also. 

 

 

Microsoft has a docking station for the Surface with all the connections needed. So you can do your work and when finished detach and use it as a tablet and no the keyboard case is not needed for anything.

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post #93 of 142
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Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Because MS's ads depict the Surface with a keyboard and specifically spotlights the "click" sound the keyboard and Surface makes when connecting.

It's just a commercial, if the keyboard was truly needed or if Microsoft was trying to sell the Surface as a Hybrid they would have included the keyboard. Personally I would skip the keyboard all together and just get the docking station for when I need to get real work done. The keyboard is uncomfortable to use and frankly a nuisance, when on the go the virtual keyboard is just fine. Like with my iPad I can now type 40 words a minute when I set the keyboard to split.

 

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post #94 of 142
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Originally Posted by peterdeep View Post
 

 

 

2. If MS was serious that they've built a work machine, then what's with the 16:9 screen? That's for watching movies. Why make a "productivity" machine the perfect size for watching widescreen movies? That size doesn't work well for anything else. Goes to show that MS has their head up their ass pretty much all the time. They just make shit up as they go.

 

And so do you, because the Thunderbolt monitor and 27" iMac (2560 x 1440) and the 21.5" iMac (1920 x 1080) has that same aspect ratio of 1.78:1 (16:9).   Besides, there's nothing magical about any aspect ratio.   The MacBook Pros have an aspect ratio of 1.6:1 (2880 x 1800 in newer models and 1440 x 900 in older models) and the iPad has the old standard definition TV resolution of 1.33:1 (2048 x 1536).    

 

The question is, "what can I put on the screen at the same time to increase my productivity".   One can make the case with a wider screen, you can more easily put two full pages on the display.   But of course, when you can't multitask, that becomes a moot point.   In the case of an iPad, where portability is important, 1.33:1 may indeed be the right size because to support the MBP AR, you'd have to make the iPad either wider or shorter (when holding it in portrait mode).    But that doesn't make the Microsoft device the wrong size. 

 

Besides, 16:9, while the aspect ratio of HDTV, is not the perfect size to watch widescreen movies, because most modern widescreen movies are 2.4:1 and non-widescreen digitally shot and 35mm spherically shot movies are 1.85:1.   That's why you see black bars when you watch a widescreen movie at its proper aspect ratio on any 16:9 device.   Only HD television shows are 16:9.

post #95 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

More competition is always a good thing. I wouldn't call Qualcomm's ARM CPU's inferior to Apple's, they make pretty wonderful chips. The problem with comparing benchmarks here is that Apple controls both the software and hardware, if you were to put Qualcomm's newest, fastest chip in an iPhone I would have no doubt that it would perform as well or better. Just because the chip isn't 64bit means absolute nothing, frankly adding 64bit support to an ARM chip this early in the game is just marketing and pretty silly, especially when Apple hasn't even broken 1GB of ram yet. When phones and tablets start needing more than 3GB of memory than it would start making sense.

You obviously don't know what 64 bit chips are for. "Breaking" the 4gb barrier is only one if them. And in this case not a very important one.
post #96 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Why not, you can't just answer no without a little information to back it up. Here is an example of the same CPU displaying different benchmarks on separate platforms. The Nexus 10 has a Sun Spider benchmark of 1384.1, the Samsung Chromebook XE303 is 711. As you can see there is a quite a difference when two different platforms are used, if a Qualcomm Snapdragon 800 processor was used in the Chromebook I have no doubt that the benchmarks would be as fast as the Apple iPhone 5s or faster. Using this this benchmark graph from AnandTech the Snapdragon is at 614.8 and the iPhone is 416, but the tests for the Qualcomm CPU was done on a Android phone, which is  perfect acceptable as the iPhone is a phone. Use a different platform though such as the Chromebook and it will be a whole different story. Yes, absolutely the iPhone 5s is probably the fastest Mobile, however the A7 is certainly not the fastest ARM CPU on the market and defiantly not,"inferior to Apple" as the poster I was replying to stated. If you look at the Surface 2 Sun Spider benchmarks which isn't an Android platform but has the newest Nvidia Tegra 4 CPU, the score it's 397 but another tablet with the Tegra 4 that is running Android,Toshiba Excite Pro is 837.1. Big difference again, so Android with it's virtual machine is defiantly the bottleneck for these benchmarks in which we are all seeing when compared to the Apple iPhone 5s.

I'm not down playing Apples A7 CPU, it's defiantly fast but I'm seeing a lot posts about how it's architecture is the fastest. This is just not the case.

When you look at the clock speeds of the various chips running, you see the A7 is probably the "fastest" architecture. Even when you remove that pig Android. Dual core about 1.3 ghz vs quad core 2+ ghz.
post #97 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag View Post

You obviously don't know what 64 bit chips are for. "Breaking" the 4gb barrier is only one if them. And in this case not a very important one.

It's amazing that sort of "it's just a marketing gimmick" crap still exists, especially on a 'tech' forum. Running comparative tests you can easy see the benefits of Objective-C with AArch64.

The only thing I haven't seen posted anywhere else (except by me) is the possibility that Touch ID required AArch64 to benefit from the improved cryptography.
post #98 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag View Post


You obviously don't know what 64 bit chips are for. "Breaking" the 4gb barrier is only one if them. And in this case not a very important one.

I am fully aware of what 64bit chips are and the benefits, I have been writing program specifically for 64bit architecture for 15 years. In a mobile setting, as of yet it brings little to the speed or improvements to the platform. Not to say someone doesn't have to start to start this movement but iOS apps will be 32bit for a very long time to come.

 

I was wrong there is no "4GB wall" on ARMv7, as many ARMv7 cores support LPAE (Large Physical Address Extension), which is a concept symilar to PAE on x86, except LPAE uses 40-bit addressing. Meaning, that LPAE equipped ARMv7 can address up to 1TB of RAM.

It's also important to mention that upcoming ARMv8 cores, including A7, will not use 64-bit physical addressing. Most likely A7 will use either 40-bit or 44-bit physical addressing. Later giving access to at most 16TB RAM.

Of course either with LPAE on ARMv7 or in AArch32 mode on ARMv8, applications are still 32-bit, so the application itself can only access 4GB at a time. But I don't think it would be an issue on mobile devices any time soon.

You worry that apps will use more memory (64-bit pointers), but that won't be the case it the apps run in 32-bit mode (AArch32).

On the other hand ARMv8 provides other architectural improvements over ARMv7, which are not related to AArch64.

Even on systems with more than 4GB RAM it provides no significant advantage over LPAE for 32-bit apps. And 64-bit apps aren't coming anytime soon.

I would still say and so does evey programmer I know the biggest advantage over 32 bit for 64 bit processors is the movement of memory, and not the size of memory. While it's true that 32 bit can impose a 4GB limit on direct access. There are many hardware/software solutions to get around that limit.

64 bit processors can simply read/write more data in a single processor operation. It allows the assembly code to perform operations on 8 byte blocks. This can have a great performance advantage over 32 bit processors. Floating point calculations are faster on 64 then 32, and when the CPU uses dual registers it can operate on 128 bit data blocks.

64 bit processors also have wider bandwidths to physical memory. If you have a camera that records 1080p and want to edit that video. Performing an operation on a 1GB video file will simply be faster on 64-bit.

The more bits you add to the pipeline of a CPU the more data that the CPU has to move. The CPU can not narrow that bandwidth down to 16 or 32. So this creates a problem for software developers. Most software (your calendar, notes, etc..) don't depend upon a lot of data, and as a result 64 bits would involve a lot of wasted bandwidth. This can start to hinder performance and battery life. So the CPU manufactures have to find a balance between bandwidth and software requirements.

I'm amazed that Apple released a new 64 processor so soon in the life of mobile computing. I think their real motivation for this is 3D graphics. With a 64 bit processor the phone can move more data to the GPU quickly. This will allow for fast 3D games and more impressive graphics but again it will be a long while before we see this.


Edited by Relic - 10/27/13 at 11:14am
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post #99 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag View Post


When you look at the clock speeds of the various chips running, you see the A7 is probably the "fastest" architecture. Even when you remove that pig Android. Dual core about 1.3 ghz vs quad core 2+ ghz.

Those benchmarks you are seeing are almost always browser related, until I see  Apples A7 on a developers board being benchmarked against similiar CPU's on the same board there is truly no way to know. The examples I showed above with the Chromebook and Nexus 10 was the closest I could find of having the same CPU with different OS's and it showed it makes a big difference.

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post #100 of 142
Here’s my take away.

If you have to analyze a thing this deeply, work so hard at figuring out if it’s “productive”, whether it will or won’t fit your workflow, well then… there are probably better alternatives.

I needed less than 2 minutes with an iPad to know I was buying one. It was, quite literally, a no-brainer.

That is partly what sets these two devices apart. One is simply obvious. The other "takes some ‘splainin’…."
post #101 of 142
Finally, a fair review of a competitor's product. I personally dislike the surface but I like Win 7 and it's nice to see a fair review here. If you don't want to read it, then don't. It's nice to hear how the competition fairs against Apple's products.
post #102 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Here’s my take away.

If you have to analyze a thing this deeply, work so hard at figuring out if it’s “productive”, whether it will or won’t fit your workflow, well then… there are probably better alternatives.

I needed less than 2 minutes with an iPad to know I was buying one. It was, quite literally, a no-brainer.

That is partly what sets these two devices apart. One is simply obvious. The other "takes some ‘splainin’…."

 

 

Great and that should be all that matters, I am the technical geek type, a girl but still a geek. When someone in this forum starts writing significant performance gains over the competition, in this case the CPU I get all giddy inside and do a lot of research. I also own quite a few gadgets so I can run benchmarks myself. Since Apple uses a reference design from ARM like everyone else, the starting point for the CPU is the same, it's the extras the manufactures build on that is interesting.

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post #103 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Those benchmarks you are seeing are almost always browser related, until I see  Apples A7 on a developers board being benchmarked against similiar CPU's on the same board there is truly no way to know. The examples I showed above with the Chromebook and Nexus 10 was the closest I could find of having the same CPU with different OS's and it showed it makes a big difference.

There is no way to know of the AArch64 ISA is better than AArch32? Good one!
post #104 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

It's just a commercial, if the keyboard was truly needed or if Microsoft was trying to sell the Surface as a Hybrid they would have included the keyboard. Personally I would skip the keyboard all together and just get the docking station for when I need to get real work done.

But the commercial is how MS introduced the Surface to the general public. If it's not needed, why'd they focus on it?
post #105 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


There is no way to know of the AArch64 ISA is better than AArch32? Good one!

Ugh, for 32bit operations it doesn't matter and I didn't say 32bit was better than 64bit. Just that the performance isn't going to blow away the fastest from Qualcomm, remember they use higher clock rates and quad cores, so using the same OS  they would probably be similar in performance. It's great that a dual core 1.2GHZ A7 is so fast because of it's new design but that doesn't necessarily make it the fastest.

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post #106 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


But the commercial is how MS introduced the Surface to the general public. If it's not needed, why'd they focus on it?

I have to admit I didn't see the commercial until just now, your right they showed the keyboard twice but they also showed it without it twice. That's why the keyboard is sold separately, it's up to the user to decide what kind of device the Surface is going to be for them. I personally would use it primarily as a tablet, as a hybrid I don't think it would fly with me very well, plus I already have a Macbook Air that is the perfect laptop and I don't think I could ever give up junior anytime soon. A windows 8 tablet though isn't such a bad thing though, I don't own a Surface but I do have a Thinkpad Tablet 2 and I'm quite fond of it. That's why I've been posting so much here because I really don't understand all of the hatred for the Surface 2, okay maybe the RT model but the Pro is actually pretty cool. Very attractive and very well built, fast, up to 8GB RAM and a 512GB SSD. Yes Windows 8 does have some identity crisis issues but once you get used to it and learn all of it's tricks it can actually be a very useful OS. I would love nothing more than a OSX tablet as I'm sorry to iOS is no where near as productive as people around here claim it to be. It's an entertaining device no doubt but I would like to run some desktop apps on my tablets and I really need a file-manager as well as command line to run scripts. It also get's on my nerves when people seem to know so much about this device without ever actually using it for at least a month. I know this is an Apple forum and it's a sin to like anything but Apple products but sometimes it gets to be too much. I would like to own a Surface 2 Pro if I survive my cancer, it will be my congratulations for not dying present to myself.


Edited by Relic - 10/27/13 at 1:34pm
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post #107 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Ugh, for 32bit operations it doesn't matter and I didn't say 32bit was better than 64bit. Just that the performance isn't going to blow away the fastest from Qualcomm, remember they use higher clock rates and quad cores, so using the same OS  they would probably be similar in performance. It's great that a dual core 1.2GHZ A7 is so fast because of it's new design but that doesn't necessarily make it the fastest.

Ugh, it's the 64-bit ARM processor with a 64-bit OS with a large number of 64-bit apps which WILL BENEFIT from the 64-bit ARM ISA, and as previously noted, Obj-C will especially benefit from the new features of this new ISA. This is what you called a marketing gimmick.
Edited by akqies - 10/27/13 at 12:55pm
post #108 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


Ugh, it's the 64-bit ARM processor with a 64-bit OS with a large number of 64-bit apps which WILL BENEFIT from the 64-bit ARM ISA, and as previously noted, Obj-C will especially benefit from the new features of this new ISA. This is what you called a marketing gimmick.

What 64bit apps? A few games and Garageband. Yes, I still think it's a marketing ploy and I don't think you know what you are talking about outside of what you've read in the press release. I'm sorry for saying this, I think you need to read up a little more on 64bit CPU's, benefits and disadvantages. Especially for consumer products pertaining to mobile applications. 


Edited by Relic - 10/27/13 at 1:04pm
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post #109 of 142

 

She's my favorite gadget reviewer, anyway another video that I think is interesting.

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post #110 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

What 64bit apps? Name one outside of Apples own. Yes, I still think it's a marketing ploy and I don't think you know what you are talking about outside of what you've in the press release. I'm sorry for saying this, I think you need to read up a little more on 64bit CPU's, benefits and disadvantages. Especially for consumer products pertaining to mobile applications. 

1) In 18 months when this is shipping on Android devices with less than 4GB RAM you'll be saying the ISA is better.

3) Which "press release" refers specifically to the ISA and AArch64?

4) There are plenty of 3rd-party apps as the conversion is quite trivial.

5) You show your hatred for Apple by trying to discount any of there apps as qualifying.

6) Here is an example of what you call you a "press release" comment and something that is only achieved by a higher clock rate and not by the new ISA: "The biggest change is an inline retain count, which eliminates the need to perform a costly hash table lookup for retain and release operations in the common case. Since those operations are so common in most Objective-C code, this is a big win. Per-object resource cleanup flags make object deallocation quite a bit faster in certain cases. All in all, the cost of creating and destroying an object is roughly cut in half. Tagged pointers also make for a nice performance win as well as reduced memory use."
post #111 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


1) In 18 months when this is shipping on Android devices with less than 4GB RAM you'll be saying the ISA is better.

2) You're being an idiot (as usual).

3) Which "press release" refers specifically to the ISA and AArch64?

4) There are plenty of 3rd-party apps as the conversion is quite trivial.

5) You show your hatred for Apple by trying to discount any of there apps as qualifying.

6) Here is an example of what you call you a "press release" comment and something that is only achieved by a higher clock rate and not by the new ISA: "The biggest change is an inline retain count, which eliminates the need to perform a costly hash table lookup for retain and release operations in the common case. Since those operations are so common in most Objective-C code, this is a big win. Per-object resource cleanup flags make object deallocation quite a bit faster in certain cases. All in all, the cost of creating and destroying an object is roughly cut in half. Tagged pointers also make for a nice performance win as well as reduced memory use."

 

I can care less when a Android gadget with 64 bit ships, the only device I still have with that OS is a Nexus 7 and I gave it to my daughter but it will be in the beginning of 2014 not 18 months especially now that Apple released one, Android gadget manufactures have the same access to ARMs reference designs as Apple. Conversion or recompiling 32bit to 64bit does not automatically give the app any performance advantage. I have never called you a name like idiot or anything for that matter and would ask you for the same courtesy. Just because your frustrated with me for not blindingly loving everything that comes from Apple does not give you the right. Hatred for Apple, why do you assume that because I am being critical of Apple means that I hate them, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I wouldn't be here for the last 11 years if I hated using Apple products and I am critical of every product, nothing is perfect in this world. I will not blindly accept everything just because they say it's better, especially when I know better. They are also a computer manufacture, not your friends or family, they are in the business of separating your money from you wallet, treat them as such. It's okay to like a company's goods just don't love them, that's weird. you don't have to worry though, in a few months you can have this board all to your self as I will most likely not be on this planet any longer.


Edited by Relic - 10/27/13 at 1:33pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #112 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I have never called you a name like idiot or anything for that matter and would ask you for the same courtesy.

Fine. You're making idiotic comments. Happy now?
Quote:
I will not blindly accept everything just because they say it's better, especially when I know better.

Funny how the trolls use absolute statements and go from one extreme to the other. Pointing out that you're foolishly pretending the AArch_64 ISA , which Apple didn't even create, has no benefits outside of "marketing" is not a statement that you should blindly accept everything… yet that's how you see the world.
post #113 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightzero View Post


At the risk of threadjack, I am also waiting for a proliferation of ebook readers that are free. Yes, free. A button on them lets you buy a product with a huge margin. Why not get them in the hands of as many people as you can. Make them one trick ponies, and give them away. Maybe "buy 10 ebooks get the device free." Not likely from AAPL after their run in with the DOJ. 

Forget the DOJ issue, Apple isn't likely to make a one trick pony.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #114 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I don't understand the trackpad. The keyboard- great. Trackpad- why?

Because not all apps can use touch.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #115 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


Fine. You're making idiotic comments. Happy now?
Funny how the trolls use absolute statements and go from one extreme to the other. Pointing out that you're foolishly pretending the AArch_64 ISA , which Apple didn't even create, has no benefits outside of "marketing" is not a statement that you should blindly accept everything… yet that's how you see the world.

I'm not going to play with you anymore. Have a good night.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #116 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Forget the DOJ issue, Apple isn't likely to make a one trick pony.

Actually all apps can use the touch interface, the only problem I have ran into without having a mouse or trackpad is selecting large portions of text within some desktop applications. I hate touchpads, I always use a mouse.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #117 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

 

 

Microsoft has a docking station for the Surface with all the connections needed. So you can do your work and when finished detach and use it as a tablet and no the keyboard case is not needed for anything.

 

Why is Microsoft not pushing this more? THIS is what they need to be driving. 

post #118 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post
 

 

Why is Microsoft not pushing this more? THIS is what they need to be driving. 

I'm not sure why it's not in there commercials, apparently after reading the comments in this thread it might be helpful. This is an Apple forum and people don't have any interest in exploring further what any other platform has to offer, they would prefer to outline the negatives. I found the docking station after just 1 minute by visiting the Surface product page. It's the same with any platform specific forum, Android, Microsoft, ect. They all think their choices in computer or gadget is supreme. The forums that get the most hits on Appleinsider when Apple isn't releasing new products of course are the ones discussing these other gadgets because people in general like a good bitch session, human nature. There of course is nothing wrong with owning and using the Surface 2, it's a good machine and will accomplish most tasks that people need to do. I would still like to know if anyone in this thread has used a Windows 8 tablet for at least a month.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #119 of 142
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
Well that's not true, for example; Asus, Lenovo, Acer and Samsung have many tablet/notebook hybrid offerings. 

 

Exists ≠ has a place.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #120 of 142
As far as file structure, I am waiting for Apple to use Tagging on iOS. Then there won't be a need for storing files in folders. Just label files with a Tag and select Tags to display files. Will work very similarly to filing in folders.
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