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Another daylight saving time bug strikes Apple's iOS 7, affects calendar display - Page 2

post #41 of 78
@skippingrock : or maybe you misunderstand the nature of the planet. Let me give you a hint: if it's got 50 states and 16 territories, it's not "The Earth".

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #42 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Anyone want my DST rant? I hate DST more than a few of the things I’ve hated here. :p

 

Seriously, drop all this nonsense. Imagine you’re an alien, looking down on the planet. What would you think?

 

“So… twice a year you guys just pretend it’s a different time? Why, again, should we consider you sapient and therefore immune from becoming a slave race?”


Actually, a "time" is just a convention that society has agreed on. It's not necessarily related to anything logical or physical (even though, it helps if it is). Therefore, yes, it shows humans as sapient, since they can agree to a common referential.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Leap year at least makes sense.


So does DST.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #44 of 78

Clearly this is by design and part of the 'master plan'

 

Apple users will show up to all meeting an hour later than their non-Apple counterparts.  This will lead to 'Apple only' meetings and further segregate Apple users behind the 'walled garden.'  No doubt the topic will invariably shift to the greatness of all things Apple and these meeting will provide a venue for the faithful to conspire against their heathen brethren.....

 

Oh, sure, you can *claim* its just an innocent bug that will most likely be fixed before it hits the US.... but I'm on to you.

post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

Clearly this is by design and part of the 'master plan'

 

Apple users will show up to all meeting an hour later than their non-Apple counterparts.  This will lead to 'Apple only' meetings and further segregate Apple users behind the 'walled garden.'  No doubt the topic will invariably shift to the greatness of all things Apple and these meeting will provide a venue for the faithful to conspire against their heathen brethren.....

 

Oh, sure, you can *claim* its just an innocent bug that will most likely be fixed before it hits the US.... but I'm on to you.

Now, that's one interesting theory. You'll have to admit though that Surface owners are cooler looking with their ability to breakdance.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Why, 'cuz technically you'd be 20 rather than 80 right now? lol.gif  

Haha 1biggrin.gif
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post #47 of 78
Dodged another bullet. But on the flip side, iOS 7 is finally automatically downloaded and waiting to inflect my iPhone. And I think I know why.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by skippingrock View Post

No we are in Daylight Savings Time now, the switch to Standard time is next weekend.

So it seems that many things in this article seem to be messed up.

 

You're right that the switch is to standard time, not to daylight savings time, which (in the U.S.) we are still in now.   And in the U.S., we do switch form DST to ST next weekend, but in Europe, they did switch this past weekend.    

 

It does vary a bit around the world and there are even places where the offset is half an hour, not an hour.   And then there are places in the U.S. (and elsewhere) where they never switch to Daylight Savings Time, like  Arizona and Hawaii.    I had to build functionality into an application where the users could enter the dates for their territory and also enter the positive or negative offset, so that it would work everywhere.  

post #49 of 78
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
Therefore, yes, it shows humans as sapient, since they can agree to a common referential.

 

There’s sapience and then there’s sapience. Would we (external) consider us (internal) sapient if we (external) right now had control over matter at the Planck level and us (internal) did not? :\ 

 

Originally Posted by jobsonmyface View Post
Again? Embarrassing.
 

When has this happened before? It has happened to Microsoft multiple times. Apple? When?

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post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post

 

That's completely opposite. DST is because people stay awake at night more than they do in the day, so you shift the clock so you get more daylight. People stay up till say midnight, which is sunset + ~6 hours. You don't wake up at sunrise - 6 hours = ~1 AM. 

 

Farmers dislike DST because their day is set by the sun, not the clock. I guess people like to bash farmers as hicks when they don't know what they're talking about.

 



I grew up on a farm and never understood the opposition to DST. In fact DST seemed better for farmers than standard time. In fact double DST would have been even better.
post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post
 

 

That's completely opposite. DST is because people stay awake at night more than they do in the day, so you shift the clock so you get more daylight. People stay up till say midnight, which is sunset + ~6 hours. You don't wake up at sunrise - 6 hours = ~1 AM. 

 

Farmers dislike DST because their day is set by the sun, not the clock. I guess people like to bash farmers as hicks when they don't know what they're talking about.

 



I grew up on a farm and never understood the opposition to DST. In fact DST seemed better for farmers than standard time. In fact double DST would have been even better.

 

 

On the flip side of the coin... I grew up in a farming community that has never had DST and they don't want it now.

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post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post
 

 

That's completely opposite. DST is because people stay awake at night more than they do in the day, so you shift the clock so you get more daylight. People stay up till say midnight, which is sunset + ~6 hours. You don't wake up at sunrise - 6 hours = ~1 AM. 

 

Farmers dislike DST because their day is set by the sun, not the clock. I guess people like to bash farmers as hicks when they don't know what they're talking about.

 



I grew up on a farm and never understood the opposition to DST. In fact DST seemed better for farmers than standard time. In fact double DST would have been even better.

I'm no farmer and know almost nothing about it, but my understanding is that farmers do most of their work in early morning.    Not that it really matters….if one doesn't like DST, all you have to do is do everything an hour earlier than what the clock says and you'll be back on standard time.   

 

Most of the opposition to DST is actually from parents of young children, who don't want their kids going to school in the dark.    DST supposedly saves energy because it provides more sunlight in the late afternoon and dinnertime hours when energy usage is at its peak, but I wonder, especially as people move to lower energy-consuming lighting, whether that's still going to be true in the future.    Most people put a light on when they're home anyway, even during the day, unless they have very large and bright windows. 

 

In the summer, in northern European cities, it can stay light until close to 10pm.  

 

Not that I'm opposed to DST.    I prefer it and would be very happy if we stayed in DST all winter.  

post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Works fine for me on iOS6.
Daylight 'saving' time has caused problems for all OSes from the dawn of Unix till now.
The best solution would be to get rid of daylight 'saving' altogether.

I agree. I hate changing the time, although it affects me less than other people who actually need to be somewhere early in the morning at a precise time. I let the sun and the birds wake me up.

 

BTW the DST problems do not originate in UNIX. UNIX uses time(); which is the number of seconds since 00:00:00 1 January  1970 UCT and is unaffected by DST. The problems are caused by programmers who do not properly handle the conversion to conventional date time format.

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post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
 


So does DST.

 

Hardly.

 

I have proof that people live without DST quite comfortably and don't want it, don't need it.

 

Without leap years though... well, eventually we'd have July in the winter. Basically, the calnedar would be a confusing mess.

 

Tell me which one is necessary and which one isn't.

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post #55 of 78

I will be filing a lawsuit next week against Apple for lost wages. I use my iPhone as an alarm clock, so apparently I will be late to work and lose an hours worth of pay.  /s 

post #56 of 78
Quote:

Hardly.

 

I have proof that people live without DST quite comfortably and don't want it, don't need it.

 

Without leap years though... well, eventually we'd have July in the winter. Basically, the calnedar would be a confusing mess.

 

Tell me which one is necessary and which one isn't.

Isn't the calendar already a confusing mess? Are named months actually necessary? And BTW we already have winter in July. It depends on your latitude.


Edited by mstone - 10/28/13 at 9:12am

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post #57 of 78
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
Are named months actually necessary?

 

Saying “It’s Twelve Twenty” sounds stupid and pretentious. 

 

Also, it sounds like a time:lol:

 

“It’s Four Fifteen on Four Fifteen!”

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
Are named months actually necessary?

 

Saying “It’s Twelve Twenty” sounds stupid and pretentious. 

 

Also, it sounds like a time:lol:

 

“It’s Four Fifteen on Four Fifteen!”

Sorry I meant get rid of months entirely for example it is currently 1382976306. Not ambiguous at all. ;)

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post #59 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Are named months actually necessary? And BTW we already have winter in July. It depends on your latitude.

 

LOL. Of course you are kidding about months being necessary. Let's just change the system tomorrow, cancel the month designations and see how that works out. Now, let's cancel DST from here forward and let's see how that works out. Which one do you think will have the most consequences.

 

... and, yes, they have winter in July in the southern hemisphere but let's see how it works out when the seasons are slowly going out of sync with the calendar. 

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post #60 of 78
Wow, more complicated than I thought. DST Explained
post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 
LOL. Of course you are kidding about months being necessary. Let's just change the system tomorrow, cancel the month designations and see how that works out. Now, let's cancel DST from here forward and let's see how that works out. Which one do you think will have the most consequences.

 

... and, yes, they have winter in July in the southern hemisphere but let's see how it works out when the seasons are slowly going out of sync with the calendar. 

I'm suggesting that months are entirely unnecessary and just a legacy from a bunch of Dark Ages bureaucrats and religious zealots created to organize tax collection and holidays on their flat Earth. We'd all be a lot better off without them. There is no logical relationship between days, months and years. Ancient cultures accidentally got it right using, moons to measure months and equinox and solstice to measure seasons/years and the Earth's rotation to measure days with no evenly divided relationships among them.

 

Sure, removing months would cause all kinds of havoc in our modern culture but it would be temporary and we would get through it just fine. But that is probably never going to happen and people will continue to say "bless you" when you sneeze.

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post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I'm suggesting that months are entirely unnecessary and just a legacy from a bunch of Dark Ages bureaucrats and religious zealots created to organize tax collection and holidays on their flat Earth. We'd all be a lot better off without them. There is no logical relationship between days, months and years. Ancient cultures accidentally got it right using, moons to measure months and equinox and solstice to measure seasons/years and the Earth's rotation to measure days with no evenly divided relationships among them.

 

Sure, removing months would cause all kinds of havoc in our modern culture but it would be temporary and we would get through it just fine. But that is probably never going to happen and people will continue to say "bless you" when you sneeze.

 

... but let's get back to my original assertion instead of just getting silly.

 

There is a very valid reason for leap years when comparing it against the reason for DST.

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post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 
... but let's get back to my original assertion instead of just getting silly.

 

There is a very valid reason for leap years when comparing it against the reason for DST.

No you are right, leap years are practical just as leap seconds are, but months have nothing to do with it. Seconds are a valuable scientific measurement and essential for GPS, space travel, etc. But the 24 hour day is completely illogical. If we were using 86,400 seconds as the increment there would be no need for DST. Why should anyone care if you show up a couple thousand seconds late for work in the winter and a couple thousand seconds early in the summer? The trains don't run on time anyway. The source of all of these time issues starts with the assumption that the Earth's orbit and rotation are somehow related to one another. Square peg, round hole.

 

I'll be happier when we finally get "Stardate" as a standard for time, whatever that means, it's got to be better than what we have now.

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post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Americans know the difference, at least.

Come off it. This is obviously a bug.

While I agree wtih the 2nd statement (it's a bug...still sad that Apple continues to not fully test their software for these simplest of use cases), I have to say to the 1st statement, no, we don't.

I'm often correcting (or more often just letting it slide) people who use Standard Time as if it just means the "local time" in a particular time zone, even if Daylight Savings is in effect. It'll often come up in work conversations coordinating meetings with offices in other time zones. So in June, you'll have one person asking, "is that 11:00 your time or mine?" "That's Central Standard Time." And they'll both ignorantly think they just confirmed the meeting at 11:00 Chicago time when in fact they just confirmed it for 10:00 Chicago time.
post #65 of 78
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post
I'm often correcting (or more often just letting it slide) people who use Standard Time as if it just means the "local time" in a particular time zone, even if Daylight Savings is in effect. It'll often come up in work conversations coordinating meetings with offices in other time zones. So in June, you'll have one person asking, "is that 11:00 your time or mine?" "That's Central Standard Time." And they'll both ignorantly think they just confirmed the meeting at 11:00 Chicago time when in fact they just confirmed it for 10:00 Chicago time.

 

Where I live, everyone knows the difference between the S and the D in the center of the abbreviation. Whether it be Central, Mountain, Pacific, or Eastern, I’ve never seen anyone confused. Probably because we were recently forced to learn the differences by our government who implemented DST against citizens’ wishes.

 

We’re petitioning to get the idiots to undo the damage and drop DST again.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #66 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Where I live, everyone knows the difference between the S and the D in the center of the abbreviation. Whether it be Central, Mountain, Pacific, or Eastern, I’ve never seen anyone confused. Probably because we were recently forced to learn the differences by our government who implemented DST against citizens’ wishes.

We’re petitioning to get the idiots to undo the damage and drop DST again.

Well I guess I would say everyone here also knows the difference...once you point out their mistake. It's more out of habit and sloppiness that they mis-speak than out of actual ignorance.



Perhaps we should go back to forcing everyone to manually update the time on their computers, phones, and other devices twice a year. Give them a little stronger appreciation (or hatred) of the whole concent of DST rather than treat it so casually. :-)
post #67 of 78

fine with iphone4 iOS6.  seems like another bug with iOS7. still waiting for more bugs to be killed before i'll upgrade.

post #68 of 78
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post
Perhaps we should go back to forcing everyone to manually update the time on their computers, phones, and other devices twice a year. Give them a little stronger appreciation (or hatred) of the whole concent of DST rather than treat it so casually. :-)

 

I have a WILD idea… here it comes: How about we just don’t change time at all, since it has been proven to have zero benefit and do great harm?

 

*gasp!* :lol:

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post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I have a WILD idea… here it comes: How about we just don’t change time at all, since it has been proven to have zero benefit and do great harm?

*gasp!* lol.gif

Or ... do away with time zones and everyone use GMT ... after all time zones change time ... that would be fun. 1biggrin.gif
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post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Anyone want my DST rant? I hate DST more than a few of the things I’ve hated here. :p

 

Seriously, drop all this nonsense. Imagine you’re an alien, looking down on the planet. What would you think?

 

“So… twice a year you guys just pretend it’s a different time? Why, again, should we consider you sapient and therefore immune from becoming a slave race?”

TS, seriously ? ... you "hate" DST ?  Come on, it's designed to save money, how can that be a bad thing ?  People, generally, live "by the clock" ... so if you turn back "the dark hours" by one hour you effectively save one hour's worth of electicity. That adds up to a small fortune when you extrapolate it over a whole country for several months a year. ... not to mention the perverse delight in sleeping in late, once a year ... legally.   :D

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post #71 of 78
Originally Posted by newbee View Post
TS, seriously ? ... you "hate" DST ?  Come on, it's designed to save money, how can that be a bad thing ?

 

Because it doesn’t save money (money, here, meaning actually resources, used to fuel generators and give electric power), and has been shown to actually cost money (here meaning cash) in the productivity man-hours lost both in the weeks following the two changes and annually otherwise in scheduling across areas, etc. And that’s without mentioning the fact that air conditioning exists now, costing more money during DST than it otherwise would. Know how much it “saves” on average? Four bucks. I mean, yeah, DST made sense… to help total war. If less fuel is going to plants to power incandescent bulbs, it can go to fuel tanks, etc. But people don’t use them anymore, either because they don’t want to or the government has forced them not to. Television exists now, meaning even though there’s more daylight, who’s using it? They’re inside, watching TV anyway, with the AC on because the sun’s still up.

 

It’s not 1920 anymore. The reason for doing it in the first place is completely gone. Even if it did save money–even an appreciable amount–I’m not sure I’d be for it. I’m greatly for simplicity. I’ve actually recently been tossing around the idea of living a month in a Tibetan monastery. I love the cold, singing bowls sound nice, and everyone in my immediate vicinity either hates me or has abandoned me, so it’s not like my departure would hurt anyone. But those guys know how to live simply. And what could be more simple than letting time just do its thing? Have it flow, smoothly, year-round. I grew up without DST (not Arizona); I know it isn’t needed. Kicking hours around twice a year (and changing when that happens arbitrarily) doesn’t save anyone anything. It’s only needless expenditure: of money, time (not time time, wasted man-hours, time), and resources.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #72 of 78

Oh, please.   It may not save money, but it certainly doesn't cause the expenditure of more money in any meaningful way.    There's about as much inefficiency, confusion and loss of productivity as there is by people who can't remember what day it is.     And people who come to work even just one minute late each day cause a greater loss in productivity.

 

DST works because people like more daylight after work.   And it also adds to the economy because people spend more money at night when we have longer days, especially in northern Europe, where it can stay light until almost 10pm in the summer.    Restaurants alone make far more money because of this.

 

It's not that any great harm would be done if we got rid of DST, but on the other hand, it doesn't cause any.   There are tons of other ways to more greatly simplify life than the end of DST.  For example, get rid of your computer, cell phone and multiple credit cards.     Joining a monastery?   Fine…I'm sure it won't matter at all whether it's standard time or daylight time in the monastery.    

 

I think your opinion on this is an over-reaction from someone with way too much time on their hands.   I really have to wonder about a society where people get so anal and angry over the most trivial matters.   While the world is still preoccupied with race, class, religion, nationality, ethnicity, tribe, etc., I think future conflicts are going to be over brands, which in essence, have become religions.  

post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post

p>Farmers dislike DST because their day is set by the sun, not the clock. I guess people like to bash farmers as hicks when they don't know what they're talking about.

 



Farmers who dislike DST typically are ignorant hicks. DST has almost no bearing on a farmer's life. DST doesn't change how much daylight there is in a day.
post #74 of 78
Want a solid reason why I like DST?

June 21 - without DST, sunrise would be at 4:36am and sunset at 8:03pm
With DST, sunrise is at 5:36am, and sunset is at 9:03pm.

That means after work (since I work an 8-5 schedule), I get an extra hour of sunlight to enjoy the summer months.
post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto View Post
 
Farmers who dislike DST typically are ignorant hicks. DST has almost no bearing on a farmer's life. DST doesn't change how much daylight there is in a day.

Many people think of farmers as the quaint old MacDonald milking his cows in the dark because of the horrible DST. Cows are milked by machine these days. 

 

Less than 1% of the US population is employed in farming. 

 

Corporate farming represents about 40% of all farm land in the US and 75% of the laborers are Mexican born. More than 50% are not authorized to work in the US. It is almost irrelevant what farm workers think about DST. They represent a very tiny and politically insignificant segment of the population. DST probably has almost no effect on their lives whatsoever.

 

Personally I don't care one way or the other about DST except I don't like changing the clocks.

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post #76 of 78
I awoke this morning to my iPad having the correct time but my iPhone 5 was off by an hour. I tried taking the phone off auto update for time and it sets back an hour,, but when I switch it to auto time set, it switches back after about a minute.
Not sure if there is a fix for this bug as it is only happening on my iPhone 5. I have both the iPad and iPhone updated to latest versions of IOS 7
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmsquires View Post

I awoke this morning to my iPad having the correct time but my iPhone 5 was off by an hour. I tried taking the phone off auto update for time and it sets back an hour,, but when I switch it to auto time set, it switches back after about a minute.
Not sure if there is a fix for this bug as it is only happening on my iPhone 5. I have both the iPad and iPhone updated to latest versions of IOS 7

 

All my devices are showing the correct time, but the calendar bug is evident - the red line is labelled 8:35 but appears between the 9:00 and 10:00 grid lines.

post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmsquires View Post

I awoke this morning to my iPad having the correct time but my iPhone 5 was off by an hour. I tried taking the phone off auto update for time and it sets back an hour,, but when I switch it to auto time set, it switches back after about a minute.
Not sure if there is a fix for this bug as it is only happening on my iPhone 5. I have both the iPad and iPhone updated to latest versions of IOS 7

No problems on my iPhone5. At 2am, it changed to 1am. There might be a setting somewhere as to whether DST is turned in or not. If it's off and you changed the time for DST, it wouldn't have changed back this morning.
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