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92% of iTunes Radio listeners still use Pandora, says new report - Page 2

post #41 of 71
It'll take time for people to find their new favourite and switch straight away, people fear change.
post #42 of 71
iTunes Radio got me to buy my first song, surely this is inaccurate.
post #43 of 71
Only reason I continue to use Pandora is that my Logitech Squeezebox doesn't do iTunes Radio.

Want an easy way to screw up a Pandora channel? "Like" a Grateful Dead song. Shortly your Boston or Phish channel morphs into a Grateful Dead channel. You'll be "disliking" GD tunes for a month before restoring some semblance of order.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post

2 hours??  I've had it happen to me consistently over the course of just 30-45 minutes.  If you just want hits, iTR is the way to go.  As a music "discovery" service, I think there's still a ways to go.

And yet for me any many others ... zero problems. So I wonder what the common denominator is with the folks having a problem?

What gives me an inkling is the guy saying his Apple TV has the same problem so I'm thinking a corruption in the iCloud database for the people's accounts having the problem. It obviously can't be local if it is on Apple TV and the iPhone.

Can you delete everything and start over I wonder?
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

iTunes Radio got me to buy my first song, surely this is inaccurate.

Can you explain that statement? I'm confused.
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post #46 of 71

Never used iTunes Radio much, but because of this article I decided to give it a try and been listening for about two hours at work now. Only 3-4 ads, about every 30-40 minutes I guess - not bad to me and only one. Made several custom 'stations' and they play a nice mix of songs. No complaints from me, also thanks to being grandfathered into AT&T unlimited data.

post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post
 

 

2 hours??  I've had it happen to me consistently over the course of just 30-45 minutes.  If you just want hits, iTR is the way to go.  As a music "discovery" service, I think there's still a ways to go.

 

Just started using iTR today and I already found this to be false. If you hit the (i) info icon on the top-center there is an option to 'Tune This Station' where you can select to play the 'Hits' or 'Discovery' of new songs or a 'Variety', etc. Maybe people should explore before complaining or posting false info.

post #48 of 71
I like the fact that I now have two choices that I both like. I hope that they can both evolve and improve. I can definitely tell which I am listening to and I hope they both retain that distinct flavor.
post #49 of 71
I like the fit & finish of the user experience on iTunes Radio, though the music app still crashes sometimes on both my iPhone 5s and iPad mini. Sadly, the genre of music I listen to most electronic/dance/world/chill needs major improvement in the songs automatically selected to play based on my seed artist & tracks. As one reviewer stated in their blog, iTunes Radio needs to hire someone to help curate the above mentioned genres to make them relevant to the user's taste. iTunes Radio, on the otherhand does a better job at this process than Pandora does when it comes to Pop, hip-hop, R & B, etc. At least in my experience anyway. For electronic/dance/world/chill Pandora is still my go to streaming service for these genres.
post #50 of 71
Maybe because iTunes Radio sucks and it doesn't play correctly. It will constantly play songs you tell it not to, sometimes it plays the same song over and over again and you have to use a skip to get to continue to the next song. Then it might play a song you already told it not to play. Now, I have one of my playlists that don't work at all that I've already spent a long time getting it the way I wanted. Apparently its broke forever.

I think Apple should have tested this more and not rushed its release. Its not ready for prime time.

I'll be sticking to Spotify.

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post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_sanders_aia View Post

Hmmm... This smells of a report with an agenda...

First, if you are going to measure adoption of iTunes Radio vs. Pandora on iOS devices, you would only survey iOS 7 users... Obviously, users of prior versions do not have access to iTunes Radio, so of course they are not going to be using it... That immediately distorts the numbers...
"A survey of more than 800 iOS device owners shows that of those who have tried Apple's new iTunes Radio"
If they don't have iOS 7, they could not have used it, so the numbers are correct.
Quote:
If you only count those who are running iOS7
You cannot count any other iOS users since they don't have ITunes Radio.
Quote:
then it looks like over 11% of those users have ditched Pandora entirely...
It's 8% per the article.
Quote:
And well more than half of iOS7 users are at least 'splitting' their listening hours...and quite different from the headline...
"forty-four percent split their listening time roughly equally"
post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

I have been trying it and here is what I don't like. It will just stop playing for no reason at times and is hard to get the music started again. It is not a cell signal issue either because Pandora will play fine if I try. I also don't like the fact that I cannot train or fine tune my stations. There is no way to give a thumbs up/down or rate from 1 to 10 stars for example. I am also hearing the same songs far too often. Unless they improve the ability to train stations I think I will just stick with Pandora which seems to know what I like far better after all these years. 

There is a way to tune your station on iTunes radio, by selecting "play more like this" (the current song playing) or selecting "never play this song" (again during the current song playing).

post #53 of 71
I've tried Pandora in the past but found myself skipping songs all the time. I just didn't hear what I wanted to. I do use iTunes Radio when I'm walking or driving someplace farther than my work commute - sometimes. But usually I listen to what's on my iPod or I listen to Songza. I really like Songza the most of all the "radio" offerings. It delivers music to me based on my mood rather than some "genome". I find the Songza approach to be much more satisfying.

How do I listen?

Pandora 0%
iPod/iPhone Library 70%
Songza 25%
iTunes Radio 5%

How do I discover new music?

Asking my friends what's that I'm hearing them listen to? 84.5%
Songza 10.5%
Terrestrial Radio 5% (I learned about Adele and many others on NPR well before they were household names.)
post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroG View Post

I like the fit & finish of the user experience on iTunes Radio, though the music app still crashes sometimes on both my iPhone 5s and iPad mini. Sadly, the genre of music I listen to most electronic/dance/world/chill needs major improvement in the songs automatically selected to play based on my seed artist & tracks. As one reviewer stated in their blog, iTunes Radio needs to hire someone to help curate the above mentioned genres to make them relevant to the user's taste. iTunes Radio, on the otherhand does a better job at this process than Pandora does when it comes to Pop, hip-hop, R & B, etc. At least in my experience anyway. For electronic/dance/world/chill Pandora is still my go to streaming service for these genres.

The actually have hired numerous people to curate there radio stations.  It was in  a news article a while back..  It takes time to curate stations.  They will get better. This article talks about Apple talking with Music industry companies and actually hiring music programmers for distinctive groups or genres of music and they are actively doing this right now.  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57603188-37/how-apples-itunes-radio-will-rock-the-world/

 

There are many more articles like this.

iTunes radio is young and will get much better.  Give it a little time.

post #55 of 71
I'd used Pandora for about 8 months before September. Once I began using iTunes Radio I never felt the urge to go back to Pandora. iTunes Radio taps a music library that's, what, 20 times the number of tracks versus Pandora? It's easy to review my listening history or wish list songs, preview each and buy those I like. It's nice to have that extra opportunity to go back and preview them again; I'm not forced to make a snap decision or risk forgetting about a track I liked. After a couple weeks, I deleted the Pandora app off all my devices.
I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post
 

92% of iTunes Radio listeners still use Pandora, says new report

 

Not for long. 

Another way of stating this is that, after a month with iTunes Radio on the market, fully 8% of Pandora users have abandoned that service in favor of iTunes Radio.  Considering it took ten years for Pandora to acquire it's user base, that means iTunes Radio stole away nearly a full year's worth of Pandora's customer acquisition in just one month.  That can't be good news to Pandora's management.

I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

Another way of stating this is that, after a month with iTunes Radio on the market, fully 8% of Pandora users have abandoned that service in favor of iTunes Radio.  Considering it took ten years for Pandora to acquire it's user base, that means iTunes Radio stole away nearly a full year's worth of Pandora's customer acquisition in just one month.  That can't be good news to Pandora's management.

And Apple doesn't need the money. It's just another part of the Eco system that sells hardware. Pandora needs the money desperately .... It's all over before it starts.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #58 of 71

I use Spotify the vast majority of the time. I like listening to albums and artist catalogs.

 

I've tried iTR a bit and I agree with those who are unhappy with its song selections. Pandora gives me a nice wide variety, but still coherent. iTR tends to play artists from the same time period. For example, on Pandora a station seeded with The Black Keys will play Led Zeppelin, blues from the 50s, and some contemporary bands like The White Stripes. A similar station on iTR will only play bands from the 2000s - even if they are not very similar to the seed.

 

I also haven't bought into iTR's user interface. It just hasn't hooked me yet. It feels awkward.

 

- Jasen.

post #59 of 71

Yeah , of coarse it is really better than iTunes ........ for latest and in new you are really interested

post #60 of 71

iTunes radio smokes the competition. iTunes has a huge selection of music, and then the end of it all was when i plugged it into my automobile stereo. iTunes sound quality BLOWS AWAY pandora and XM who's washed out mp3's must be 128k or worse...it sounds lame next to iTunes .

thats all it took to get me 

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post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post
 

Another way of stating this is that, after a month with iTunes Radio on the market, fully 8% of Pandora users have abandoned that service in favor of iTunes Radio.  Considering it took ten years for Pandora to acquire it's user base, that means iTunes Radio stole away nearly a full year's worth of Pandora's customer acquisition in just one month.  That can't be good news to Pandora's management.

That's not what this study states. The survey is targeting a sample of iTunes Radio users. You'd want a stratified sample of Pandora users across all platforms before and after the implementation of iTunes Radio to determine attrition.

 

Seems from this that Pandora is pretty resilient, as iTunes Radio is so much better integrated into iOS 7 (purchasing songs, already on the phone, buy songs right from the app, etc). They've really demonstrated their value in a market that was already rife with competition even before Apple got into the game.

 

Good to note also that Pandora works through any desktop/laptop web browser, as well as on Android devices, both of which have a higher "Installed Base" than iOS 7 devices. I'd guess they're aware that they'll clearly lose share among Mac/iOS7 users, but as the overall market of smartphone users expands, they'll likely continue to grow their total number of users. iTunes Match is likely a strong competitor that will knock them from #1 in market share to #2 but only among a few of the platforms on which they compete.

 

 


Edited by sixstrings03 - 10/29/13 at 4:16am
post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucepondo View Post
 

800 people is hardly data worth publishing, much less re-reporting.

exactly, 800 is not statistically significant in the case. I believe Apple has 100's of million Itunes users and Pandora has some pretty hefty users as well. They would need to survey a much larger pool of people before they can draw any conclusions. Also if you are a paid user of Pandora, you may not be too inclined to switch until your subscription runs out.

 

I tried Pandora some time ago when it first came out, was not really that impress, but I never bother to go back for various reasons. However, recently Pandora has been emailing at least once a week asking me to come back and use the product it even reference the play list I had set up and says it even better today. 

 

If Pandora was doing so well why keep emailing me trying to convince me to come back. I suspect that Pandora has lots of user accounts but their ratio of active/paying accounts to total account is low and the investment community does not like low ratios.

post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
 

exactly, 800 is not statistically significant in the case. I believe Apple has 100's of million Itunes users and Pandora has some pretty hefty users as well. They would need to survey a much larger pool of people before they can draw any conclusions.

 

Actually, from a statistics perspective, if you do the random sampling correctly (or at least well), 800 people is a large enough sample size for low-stakes analyses like this.  The size of the population that you are trying to understand is irrelevant.  The confidence interval around an estimate (for example "92% of people do X") has nothing to do with the number of people in the population.

 

Having said that, the conclusions from this study sound very fishy and I doubt they did a good random sample to obtain their data.

post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post
 

 

Actually, from a statistics perspective, if you do the random sampling correctly (or at least well), 800 people is a large enough sample size for low-stakes analyses like this.  The size of the population that you are trying to understand is irrelevant.  The confidence interval around an estimate (for example "92% of people do X") has nothing to do with the number of people in the population.

 

Having said that, the conclusions from this study sound very fishy and I doubt they did a good random sample to obtain their data.

I not disagreeing with what you said, but humans are not homogeneously the same. Yes you can use small sample sizes to represent a much larger population and still have a large confident interval, but this assume the entire population is very much the same. Humans are not like a manufactured part, Humans have too much variation, ask the Republican national convention about predicting an election outcome base on a small population of voters.

post #65 of 71
My issue is that it works great everywhere by my iPhone. I don't get ads anywhere but my iPhone. Same Apple ID. Need to do some digging, I bet there's an answer.

That said, I think the music selection is similar. I wish it worked with more devices but that will come.
post #66 of 71
Like someone said before, maybe if iTunes Radio didn't play the same set of songs over and over again!! Apple has just about everything the music industry has to offer, yet I still get the same stuff over and over. THAT is why Pandora is getting more attention. (IMO)
post #67 of 71
Really? I must be in the 8%, I deleted Pandora off my iPhone and iPad as I didn't use it that much. Their sound quality actually wasn't that good and their ads were annoying and selection of content really wasn't that good.
post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

exactly, 800 is not statistically significant in the case. I believe Apple has 100's of million Itunes

 


But the survey is only about iOS 7 users, not iTunes users.
post #69 of 71
Meh... From the looks of it iTunes radio looks like it will get shelved. If there's one thing Apple has shown us lately, it's an inability to deliver a solid and reliable user experience.

iTunes radio is doomed to remain in the Apple eco system. Considering the latest iOS 7 debacle the attrition rate will increase. Pandora is device agnostic and it's a system that works.

At this point Apple has a lot of catching up to do in order to restore past, present, and future consumer confidence. At the end of the day we're talking about a music app. Remember internet radio? Remember Spotify?

iTunes Radio - like many of Apple's latest skunkworks projects - sucks the big one. I predict a slow adoption rate.

While there lies a potential for the algorithms to improve, I wish Apple would focus more on fixing what it broke before moving on. iOS 7 sucks. Upgrading and repairing the new MacBook Pro hardware seems impossible at best.

At the rate it's going at, Apple looks like it's on its way to becoming the first poster child for planned obsolescence.

So yeah - no surprises here that iTunes Radio isn't really picking off. When all is said and done iTunes Radio is nothing more than a glorified try-before-you-buy service.
post #70 of 71

The Nissan ads on iTunes Radio are so irritating that I promise to never buy a Nissan.

post #71 of 71

If you looking for music but if you watch, rent movies right now the cheapest way to rent is vudu codes are sold online for 50-60% off the value, like netstrada have, means average movie cost you around $2 where apple asking $5 for same thing but iTunes codes are stable and is hard to buy lower than nominal value.

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