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J.D. Power ranks Samsung tablets better than iPad entirely due to cost - Page 4

post #121 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
 

 

So, if in years past when apple was ranking highly, what would have been your feedback to somebody posting your commentary back at you?

 

I'd still agree that it's technically a phony award. I've known about their "policy" since they started appearing in car ads.

 

Here's a little story from the car side of things:  http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/06/who-exactly-is-j-d-power/

 

And here's another, for good measure:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-initial-quality-study-feature


Edited by SpamSandwich - 10/31/13 at 3:33pm

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post #122 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drealoth View Post
 

How the scoring ratings work: http://www.jdpower.com/about/power-circle-ratings.htm

 

Basic point is, they are relative to their peers, NOT a score out of five.

 

Of note: "The highest-ranking company or brand in each segment receives five Power Circles*. In highly competitive segments with many companies or brands, multiple companies or models scoring in the top 10 percent of the range from the highest score can also receive five Power Circles, indicating that consumers rate them "among the best" of all companies or models in the survey. However, only the highest ranking company in each segment receives a J.D. Power award."

 

So those 4s that Samsung got could have been very close to Apple's 5s. Still silly that price alone wins it though.

 

They are a marketing firm, people. Marketing firms don't survive by handing out slaps on the back.

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post #123 of 224
As much as I love my iPad, which I'll be trading up to an iPad Air for tomorrow, price is an issue. Not the initial price, but the hundred dollars between each model. I'm sorry, but an additional 16, 32, hell even 64GB of memory is NOT worth a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred bucks.

When you compare Macs, the higher tier models usually come with more ram, more storage, and a faster processor. Not so with iPads, iPhones and iPods. With those three, you're paying 100 dollars more for what amounts to maybe 15 dollars worth of additional chips soldered to the logic board. As buyers become more savvy, they start to realize that pricing scheme is complete horse hockey. High margins for Apple, great for shareholders, but highway robbery all the same.
post #124 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobsonmyface View Post

Not surpised. Apple has been resting on their laurels

You wish. iPad is still the target the industry is chasing.

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post #125 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

As much as I love my iPad, which I'll be trading up to an iPad Air for tomorrow, price is an issue. Not the initial price, but the hundred dollars between each model. I'm sorry, but an additional 16, 32, hell even 64GB of memory is NOT worth a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred bucks.

When you compare Macs, the higher tier models usually come with more ram, more storage, and a faster processor. Not so with iPads, iPhones and iPods. With those three, you're paying 100 dollars more for what amounts to maybe 15 dollars worth of additional chips soldered to the logic board. As buyers become more savvy, they start to realize that pricing scheme is complete horse hockey. High margins for Apple, great for shareholders, but highway robbery all the same.

 

That's what Android is there for:  Cheapskates.

 

Nice to see you're getting the iPad Air. Post your review when you get it.

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post #126 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

http://www.jdpower.com/consumer-ratings/telecom/ratings/919201690/2013-Tablet+Satisfaction+Study/index.htm

The 2013 U.S. Tablet Satisfaction Study--Volume 2 is based on experiences evaluated by 3,375 tablet owners who have owned their current device for less than one year. The study was fielded between March and August 2013. The study measures satisfaction across five key factors (in order of importance): performance (26%); ease of operation (22%); styling and design (19%); features (17%); and cost (16%).

Based on this criteria.. yea... the ranking for price might have done it... apple only lost by 2 points in total.

Yeah, and the timeframe too...

The iPad 4 and iPad mini were announced on Oct 23, 2012, and the new ones on Oct 22, 2013.

So, the older iPads were 5 months old, and the new iPads were not yet announced. In other words, the study was conducted in the middle of Apples product cycle...

I wonder if this skews the study in any way.

I am curious what particular devices were involved, and what their ratings were.

I know it's gauche to quote and reply to ones own post (I'm not DED/Corrections, after all), but I did a little surfing to see when Samsung tablets were announced:

Galaxy Tab 3   7.0"    7 July 2013 *
Galaxy Tab 3   8.0"    7 July 2013 *
Galaxy Tab 3 10.0"    7 July 2013 *

* Jump up to: a b c "Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 10.1, 8.0 and 7.0 Coming To The U.S. July 7 For $399, $299 And $199". The Verge. 24 June 2013.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Tab_series#cite_note-Galaxy_Tab_3-36


Now, isn't that special?


Edit: a little more surfing offers this perspective:

During the survey period, Apple sold (through to customers) 28-30 million iPads (2011 and 2012 models). Samsung shipped 16-17 million tablets.

I wonder how the 3,375 tablet owners were selected for the study...
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 10/31/13 at 4:02pm
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post #127 of 224
According to JD Power's own page, the cost is weighted the lowest.
http://www.jdpower.com/content/press-release/Czb4Aa9/-2013-u-s-tablet-satisfaction-study.htm

"The study measures satisfaction across five key factors (in order of importance): performance (26%); ease of operation (22%); styling and design (19%); features (17%); and cost (16%)."

With that information, it should be impossible for Apple's score to be lower than Samsung. Even if you make the *radical* assumption that each 5 in Apple%u2019s row is really just a 4.5 rounded up and the 2 is a 1.5 rounded up (and leaving Samsung%u2019s values at their full values), Apple%u2019s weighted average becomes 4.02 while Samsung%u2019s is 3.52.

Something strange is definitely going on here.
post #128 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

As much as I love my iPad, which I'll be trading up to an iPad Air for tomorrow, price is an issue. Not the initial price, but the hundred dollars between each model. I'm sorry, but an additional 16, 32, hell even 64GB of memory is NOT worth a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred bucks.

When you compare Macs, the higher tier models usually come with more ram, more storage, and a faster processor. Not so with iPads, iPhones and iPods. With those three, you're paying 100 dollars more for what amounts to maybe 15 dollars worth of additional chips soldered to the logic board. As buyers become more savvy, they start to realize that pricing scheme is complete horse hockey. High margins for Apple, great for shareholders, but highway robbery all the same.

 

$100 between capacities is a norm for most of the industry, so I don't understand why you're singling out Apple for "highway robbery", even if you don't agree with the pricing disparity. Samsung products have the same structure. 

post #129 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

As much as I love my iPad, which I'll be trading up to an iPad Air for tomorrow, price is an issue. Not the initial price, but the hundred dollars between each model. I'm sorry, but an additional 16, 32, hell even 64GB of memory is NOT worth a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred bucks.

I agree with you that the incremental price of memory Apple asks is far more than what it costs them, but I rationalize the high price by my doing much more with the device because it has more memory. Apple might deserve disproportionate compensation for that.

 

I am not an AAPL shareholder, by the way. I just appreciate what Apple does for us and am willing to pay more for better service (all aspects).

post #130 of 224
Look at this way, JD Power did the right thing actually.

It basically saying,

JD Power admitted that Samsung is "Cheap", nothing more.
post #131 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

So, if in years past when apple was ranking highly, what would have been your feedback to somebody posting your commentary back at you?

Well has Apple used the JD Power award/name in its ads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

As much as I love my iPad, which I'll be trading up to an iPad Air for tomorrow, price is an issue. Not the initial price, but the hundred dollars between each model. I'm sorry, but an additional 16, 32, hell even 64GB of memory is NOT worth a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred bucks.

When you compare Macs, the higher tier models usually come with more ram, more storage, and a faster processor. Not so with iPads, iPhones and iPods. With those three, you're paying 100 dollars more for what amounts to maybe 15 dollars worth of additional chips soldered to the logic board. As buyers become more savvy, they start to realize that pricing scheme is complete horse hockey. High margins for Apple, great for shareholders, but highway robbery all the same.

No one is forcing you to buy the 32. I just have 16GB on my iPhone.
post #132 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Voodoo and flawgic.

I went to the JDP website and they don't explain the math. Then I saw this clause:

*Please note that JDPower.com ratings may not include all information used to determine J.D. Power awards.

They don't include the kick back they got under the table.  Part of that 13 billion dollar advertising budget of samsungs.

post #133 of 224
Originally Posted by jobsonmyface View Post
Not surpised. Apple has been resting on their laurels

 

Nope. Quiet.

 

Originally Posted by rezwits View Post
Cause getting 16GB of flash storage for an extra $100 is so 5 years ago. That's just ridiculous. I don't care what everybody else is doing or what their prices are. 

 

Except the majority of consumers says the exact opposite.

 

Originally Posted by th3uglytruth View Post
This is what a $5B marketing budget CAN and WILL do to the fruit company!

 

What are you even talking about?

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post #134 of 224
The REAL winner is: The Etch-a-Sketch for tablets.
- lowest cost by far
- longer battery life (never needs recharge)
- easiest to use, only 2 knobs
These should provide enough points to win the highest score
Edited by JC Rebic - 10/31/13 at 4:48pm
post #135 of 224
J. D. Power also rated the Pontiac Aztec as 'best in class', and least $$ for junk. Ok, we had our laugh Mr. Power, but this is Halloween, not April Fools Day.
post #136 of 224


Their method is meaningless if they expect anyone to believe that all these tablets deserve to be ranked the same. This likely stems from the fact that they are user survey based, but their weighting of the response can be nothing short of flawed.

On the bright side, Acer is the only company putting out a below average tablet. 1rolleyes.gif
post #137 of 224
Don't forget that survey results are all based upon the questions that are asked. If JD Power asks "would you be more satisfied paying $200 for a tablet or $400" as a separate question without taking into account any other factors that would obviously skew the results towards the Samsungs that are at that price point. I don't think that many people are going to say they want to spend more money.
post #138 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

During the survey period, Apple sold (through to customers) 28-30 million iPads (2011 and 2012 models). Samsung shipped 16-17 million tablets.

I wonder how the 3,375 tablet owners were selected for the study...

Not sure what you're getting at. The iPad soundly trounced the competition in each individual category except in price. It's the final ranking that doesn't quite add up.

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post #139 of 224

Dog bites man, that's not news. Man bites dog, that is news.

 

Most expensive is best, that's not news. 

post #140 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

They don't include the kick back they got under the table.  Part of that 13 billion dollar advertising budget of samsungs.

Yeah, but I don't believe that without some proof. JDP would have to risk their reputation, and their business is based on their reputation.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #141 of 224
In a capitalist world, you get what you pay for. A great tablet...for a price; a great report...for a price.

Samsung, as a client to JDPower services, would pay a fortune to get a lightly skewed overall result out of a credible consumer survey on tablet. So lightly skewed in fact, that no one can reasonably call it foul play without incurring the derision of the feel-good community.

These two percentage points overall lead on Apple, as sanctioned by a reportedly well-reputed survey firm, can and will drive a massive PR and publicity campaign to boost Samsung's relatively poor credibility in the serious-tablet market. Mark it as a great investment opportunity for Samsung, and a high-yield, low-risk ethical breach of conduct for JD Power.

A ton of money not only buys you the best tablet on the market, the iPad, as JD Power found out through its survey, but it can also lead the best survey-firm ethically astray, at the very least...three larger-than-life percentage points astray.

JD Power simply free-rides on Samsung/Google ever-increasing greed, insecurity, and Apple-envy. That is called no-holds-barred capitalism; a world within which the purest of intentions must battle it out with greed sycophancy for a good-day's pay...
post #142 of 224
*cough* bribes*cough*
post #143 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmia View Post

so a hyundai is better than a BMW/Porsche becouse is cheaper? thats rediculos

Unequivocally, yes.

post #144 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

During the survey period, Apple sold (through to customers) 28-30 million iPads (2011 and 2012 models). Samsung shipped 16-17 million tablets.

I wonder how the 3,375 tablet owners were selected for the study...

Not sure what you're getting at. The iPad soundly trounced the competition in each individual category except in price. It's the final ranking that doesn't quite add up.


Let's just assume that buyers of Sammy tablets and Apple tablets are equally satisfied with their choices.

Then, almost twice as many iPads were sold through to end-users during the survey period.

Wouldn't it be realistic to assume that study population should include almost twice as many iPad users as SammyTab users.

Then, wouldn't rating the percent of each population's answers to the questions yield more valid results?
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post #145 of 224
Am I the only one who finds the timing of this survey a bit interesting.
post #146 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

If JD Powers ever decides to explain how its published scoring somehow made Samsung the winner instead of Apple, I would be interested in reading the explanation.

As others have pointed out, Samsung scored 3.62 while Apple scored 4.52. IF JD Powers had scored Samsung with a 5 for cost and Apple a 0 then Samsung would have won by 1 point, but this is not what happened.

A crazy question is why do companies go out of their way to promote Samsung as better or equal to Apple when their own published reports state otherwise? And why do it immediately preceding a new Apple product?

In closing for now, the NYT article about Apple's planned obsolescence hatchet job should be rewritten to replace every Apple reference with Google since Google announced today it's own Nexus tablet will not get Android 4.4 for being too old of a device.

The author's iPhone 4, a three years old device, can run iOS 7 without all features is slammed as planned obsolescence while a 1.5 years old tablet device will not be supported at all. Which company is purposely implementing planned obsolescence? I doubt the NYT will authorize such a story until Google becomes the hatchet job target.

Google pays these sites to much money from ads for them to anger them.

post #147 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 
only cost matters

 

Samsung have 23 spots on that chart.

Apple have 27 spots.

How can they say that Samsung have won?

 

Surely you pay more for higher results in all the other categories.

post #148 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

As much as I love my iPad, which I'll be trading up to an iPad Air for tomorrow, price is an issue. Not the initial price, but the hundred dollars between each model. I'm sorry, but an additional 16, 32, hell even 64GB of memory is NOT worth a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred bucks.

When you compare Macs, the higher tier models usually come with more ram, more storage, and a faster processor. Not so with iPads, iPhones and iPods. With those three, you're paying 100 dollars more for what amounts to maybe 15 dollars worth of additional chips soldered to the logic board. As buyers become more savvy, they start to realize that pricing scheme is complete horse hockey. High margins for Apple, great for shareholders, but highway robbery all the same.

 

The reason the 32GB and 64GB are expensive is because they are SUBSIDIZING the 16GB phones.  If all 3 phones were sold at the exact same gross margin the prices would look more like this:

 

16GB - $699

32GB - $749

64GB - $799

 

This happens ALL THE TIME.  Look at the car industry.  They make all their profits on upgrades and add on packages.  You can buy the base model with no upgrades.  Do you really think the leather interior and sun roof costs $4000?

 

Basically Apple is giving the 16GB buyers a break on pricing.  Its not that the 32G is expensive its that the 16GB is a great deal.  Bottom line is Apple can't price the entry level price about $649.  They tried with the first iPhone and it failed.  So the alternative is to charge less for the 16GB and make up the difference with the high memory models.

 

I've stated this numerous times on this site and every single time the person who says the 32/64 GB are expensive totally ignores this reason.

 

Apple sells its iPads/iPhones as a total product line.  They price them the same way.  Again if they were to charge the exact same gross margin for all the 3 models the 16GB model would be SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.  That is a FACT!  Do you really think Apple can get away with pricing the 16GB iPad at $599?


Edited by sog35 - 10/31/13 at 5:57pm
post #149 of 224
I stopped paying attention to J.D. Power the first time they gave a customer satisfaction award to my cable provider.
post #150 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWB View Post

I stopped paying attention to J.D. Power the first time they gave a customer satisfaction award to my cable provider.

Any of these customer satisfaction surveys are based on the criteria and sample size and results. I wouldn't even use cost as a factor because it's not a consideration when the price of the products are so close to one another.  One product being $50 to $100 difference is not a big deal when dealing with products at that price level. As long as I can afford either product, cost is not an issue.  It's everything else that's important.

 

I just go by my own experiences.  I had the luxury many years ago to be involved with several large corp resellers of computer equipment  and a large amount of customers (number of users) and observing what our company saw within the industry and my own personal experiences between Windows and Macs during a 15 year period and that's why I decided to abandon Windows for OS X.  

 

As far as Android or Samsung is concerned, I won't touch that platform. It has several inherent flaws.  1.  Updating the OEM version of the OS is awful (no one uses the latest OS for at least 6 months after the release amongst the OEM) and the Android platform just doesn't have the same apps/3rd party products that are also used in combination.  I also have some friends that complain far more with Android/Samsung products than with Apple iOS based products.  That's enough for me.

post #151 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post
 

Samsung have 23 spots on that chart.

Apple have 27 spots.

How can they say that Samsung have won?

 

Surely you pay more for higher results in all the other categories.

Because they weighted the cost more than the other, rather than just using equal weighting, or someone doesn't know how to count.

post #152 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Any of these customer satisfaction surveys are based on the criteria and sample size and results. I wouldn't even use cost as a factor because it's not a consideration when the price of the products are so close to one another.  One product being $50 to $100 difference is not a big deal when dealing with products at that price level. As long as I can afford either product, cost is not an issue.  It's everything else that's important.

I think it's important to remember a few factors here:

  1. This is a survey of people who have already bought the product.

  2. Android buyers tend to be techies who have already done a lot of research and know exactly what they are buying. iPad buyers may be techie, but they can just as easily be someone with little technical knowledge. Buyers that have researched and know what they are buying are probably going to be more satisfied than someone who only has a general idea of what a tablet is supposed to do.

  3. These are all relatively new customers - most people aren't going to say that their new toy is too complicated or underperforming, but they may be willing to say that they think it is expensive. There's a little bit of prestige there btw, techies are more likely to be proud that they have done their shopping and didn't overpay, whereas the "bling" factor for non-techies is often that they spent more for the "cool" device.

  4. Again, these are buyers in the first year of ownership. Being techie, more Android purchasers are probably willing to buy a new device every year at the refresh. Non-techies are more likely to buy the device and keep it longer. Who gets the better value? ... the person who hangs on to the device for 2 or 3 years, but they are more likely to think that a tablet is an expensive device as opposed to someone who is conditioned to buy at every refresh.

 

It's easy to see how JD Power could end up with these results even without intentionally screwing with the data. But as I mentioned before, surveys tell more about the questioner and the questions than the answers. If you wanted to get the opposite answer, it would be easy enough to prime the survey by asking how long the purchaser planned to own the device before asking if they thought it was good value. Not only would it provide more accurate data - that iPads tend to be useful longer, but it would also trigger the thought in the respondents that if they had a device that they were going to hold onto longer (or that maintained its resale price better) maybe they wouldn't think it was so expensive.

post #153 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Let's just assume that buyers of Sammy tablets and Apple tablets are equally satisfied with their choices.

Then, almost twice as many iPads were sold through to end-users during the survey period.

Wouldn't it be realistic to assume that study population should include almost twice as many iPad users as SammyTab users.

Then, wouldn't rating the percent of each population's answers to the questions yield more valid results?

Are you saying the scoring should be normalized within a tablet's population before comparing rating between tablets?

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post #154 of 224

"The market researcher takes into account five key factors: performance, ease of use, styling/design, features and price; based on a 1,000 point-scale, Samsung's overall score was 835, while Apple's offerings netted 833, and 826 for Amazon. Just saying....the title claims otherwise. Endgadgets take on it fyi.

 

I personally have never been impressed with samsung tablets but my opinion is just one opinion.

post #155 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

customers don't think like that. They do think cost=price

but still. come someone explain this math to me. Exactly how can Apple get 5 points on all but one area and get second place. I am just not seeing the math here

Actually, many consumers balance look and feel, usability, reliability and utility against cost to determine the relative cost of purchasing an item. If the differences in the non-price criteria are significant, they will often opt for a more expensive item.

Example: buy a $50 pair of item you can wear for a year or more or buy a $17 item that you have to replace every 3 months?
post #156 of 224
Originally Posted by macaholic_1948 View Post
Example: buy a $50 pair of item you can wear for a year or more or buy a $17 item that you have to replace every 3 months?


Only rich people can afford cheap windows.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #157 of 224
Sigh...

We had 7 times more trick-or-treaters than Obamacare...
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post #158 of 224
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
Sigh...

We had 7 times more trick-or-treaters than Obamacare...

 

Wait, you live next door to Obamacare? Do you help it rake its leaves? I imagine that even though it’s 2,000 pages, it would have trouble in high winds.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #159 of 224
And how come there's nothing worse than at least 2 points ("the rest")? No bad optics in charts, eh?
post #160 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Sigh...



We had 7 times more trick-or-treaters than Obamacare...

Wait, you live next door to Obamacare? Do you help it rake its leaves? I imagine that even though it’s 2,000 pages, it would have trouble in high winds.

My sadness is for the very few number of trick-or-treaters... End of a very happy tradition...
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