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Traffic from OS X 10.10 growing as Apple preps Mavericks follow-up - Page 3

post #81 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpwall View Post

perhaps it is you who failed maths, mathematically 10.1 = 10.10

So if I owe you $10 or $1000 you'd be fine with $1 because all trailing zeros get dropped?

How the fuçk can someone sign up for this site but not understand such rudimentary things?
post #82 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpwall View Post

perhaps it is you who failed maths, mathematically 10.1 = 10.10

What the fuçk is wrong with people? These aren't decimal fractions they are version numbers. You should realize that because it's not just 10.9 or 10.10, but 10.9.3 or 10.10.7.4. Since when are there multiple points used with decimal notation? Each value between the period is a whole number that is stepped like when you do an outline in Word or Pages. For fuçk's sake!
post #83 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


What the fuçk is wrong with people? These aren't decimal fractions they are version numbers. You should realize that because it's not just 10.9 or 10.10, but 10.9.3 or 10.10.7.4. Since when are there multiple points used with decimal notation? Each value between the period is a whole number that is stepped like when you do an outline in Word or Pages. For fuçk's sake!

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post #84 of 109

If they had adopted the current naming convention a couple of years earlier it would have been nice to have seen Lion called Cupertino instead, in honor of 25 years of the Macintosh.

 

On reflection there was a 20th anniversary Mac (presumably for 20 years of Apple), but no 25th anniversary machine.

 

What a 25 years it has been, albeit 12 to 15 years of OS X depending on where you draw the line.

 

Mavericks makes it a joy to use a Mac, not that it's ever been arduous.

 

 

As for those who bleat on about how it must be OS 11 and not OS 10 because of the 10.10 notation,

I wonder what you'll make of the fact that several countries use the comma as the radix point (the decimal mark) and not a full stop.

 

In any case, as many have pointed out here, in the context of OS X versions, the 10.8.3 or 10.0.0 notation is not representative of a mathematical number, nor is there any rule that Apple, or indeed anybody else should label operating system versions with a precise mathematical sequence.


Edited by ChiA - 11/2/13 at 12:38pm
post #85 of 109
10.10?? No 11??

Apple increments product features one bite at a time...hence the logo. Want the next big thing? You're gonna have to pick another fruit from the Apple Tree.

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Apple increments product features one bite at a time...hence the logo. Want the next big thing? You're gonna have to pick another fruit from the Apple Tree.

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post #86 of 109
Originally Posted by JBlongz View Post
10.10?? No 11??

 

11 is the multitouch desktop OS. We’re not there yet.

post #87 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post


What the fuçk is wrong with people? These aren't decimal fractions they are version numbers. You should realize that because it's not just 10.9 or 10.10, but 10.9.3 or 10.10.7.4. Since when are there multiple points used with decimal notation? Each value between the period is a whole number that is stepped like when you do an outline in Word or Pages. For fuçk's sake!

 

Brain damage, apparently.

 

As to names, I really like Sierra, as someone else mentioned.  But it's CA: Obviously, they have lots of choices.

 

I can't quite imagine the improvements to be made over Mavericks, but that's probably why I don't work for Apple. :)

post #88 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

Brain damage, apparently.

 

As to names, I really like Sierra, as someone else mentioned.  But it's CA: Obviously, they have lots of choices.

 

I can't quite imagine the improvements to be made over Mavericks, but that's probably why I don't work for Apple. :)

What do you mean you can't quite imagine the improvements to be made over Mavericks?   Are you saying that Mavericks can't be improved upon other than cleaning up whatever bugs and security issues that might be found?

 

Every OS and application can be improved upon.   As time progresses they gather the feedback from users, they look at other techniques to optimize their OS, etc. as hardware changes come out and other techniques emerge to squeeze out a little better performance, maybe some minor tweaks to the workflow, etc.   I think OS X is due for a difference in the theme, I think that might be an upcoming change that will be more visual than it would be technical based. But Apple seems to come up with 200+ new features (visible or underneath the hood) to make improvements.

post #89 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

11 is the multitouch desktop OS. We’re not there yet.

I don't think Apple is going to do a multi-touch screen desktop OS. I think they are correct in avoiding it.  If my iMac had a touch screen, I'd probably use it like never.  From where I sit, I would have to lean over just to touch my screen in the middle and all four corners.  It would cause a lot of big arm movements and eventually shoulder strain.  That's a big pass.  Sorry, I think that OS X is just going to get improvements that are visual and some that are just speed/optimization and adapting to new hardware each year.

 

I just don't see a touch screen version other than iOS.

 

The only REAL need for a touch screen is for a presenter that wants to manipulate the OS when on a BIG screen kind of like how they do it in these movies we see.   We've probably have seen them used where they are in a police station or something like that and they have a big panel where they have people touching the screen.  But I don't know if the masses are going to really do that.  There might some specific needs here and there, but I don't think it's a big market to worry about for now.

 

I can certainly get around on a 27 inch screen just fine using a gesture mouse and track pad.

post #90 of 109

I'll go out on a limb and predict a new file system for 10.10. Which has been under development since the ZFS let down. And it will blow everything else out of the water.

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I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post
 

I'll go out on a limb and predict a new file system for 10.10. Which has been under development since the ZFS let down. And it will blow everything else out of the water.

Yeah, I would probably agree that it's time for that to happen, hopefully they will.  Changing file system is a big undertaking in design and testing to come up with something that does what they want, plus how it would affect every app developer.

post #92 of 109
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
I don't think Apple is going to do a multi-touch screen desktop OS.

 

Where’s the evidence of that? Of course they’re going to do one. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be reducing usability of their cursor OS by continuing to style it after their touchscreen OS. They wouldn’t be making UI elements larger, they wouldn’t be adding gestures… 

 

They’re going to do it right; just trust them. People didn’t figure the mouse would work, either.

 

I can certainly get around on a 27 inch screen just fine using a gesture mouse and track pad.

 

Since when has Apple been about “just fine”?

post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Where’s the evidence of that? Of course they’re going to do one. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be reducing usability of their cursor OS by continuing to style it after their touchscreen OS. They wouldn’t be making UI elements larger, they wouldn’t be adding gestures… 

 

They’re going to do it right; just trust them. People didn’t figure the mouse would work, either.

 

Since when has Apple been about “just fine”?

 



I think Apple mentioned that will not be coming out with a multi-touch screen OS for desktops/laptops solely due to not being ergonomic. That when Microsoft came out with Metro UI for Windows 7.
post #94 of 109
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think Apple mentioned that will not be coming out with a multi-touch screen OS for desktops/laptops solely due to not being ergonomic.

 

Nope. I remember that one. I don’t remember the date or what was being announced, but I remember the graphic and the bit about it.

 

Apple was talking about hardware only. They said they weren’t going to make a hybrid laptop–one with a touchscreen–for, as you said, ergonomics. They may have mentioned the same for desktops. 


The point is, Apple isn’t going to be making vertical screens! That’s what they were saying: vertical screens are horrible, always, unless you’re waiting in line at an amusement park or communist bread line.

post #95 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Nope. I remember that one. I don’t remember the date or what was being announced, but I remember the graphic and the bit about it.

 

Apple was talking about hardware only. They said they weren’t going to make a hybrid laptop–one with a touchscreen–for, as you said, ergonomics. They may have mentioned the same for desktops. 


The point is, Apple isn’t going to be making vertical screens! That’s what they were saying: vertical screens are horrible, always, unless you’re waiting in line at an amusement park or communist bread line.

 



I read that they won't be coming out with a touchscreen based desktop/laptops. I think that also rules monitors.

I personally think iPads will eventually get bigger to a certain point where there is a limit. I think that limit MIGHT be the same size as a screen on a 15inch laptop, somewhere in that neighborhood, but I'd have to play with it and I think games is where it would either be playable or not at that screen size. But they have to make them have long battery life, but the weight has to be 1.5 lb or less and they have to be thin as well and of course priced to be sellable. I don't know if they can do that, yet.
post #96 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfish View Post

Can't come sooner. Mavericks has crashed on me (waking from sleep) at least 10 times. I'm talking full kernel panic, or completely unresponsive machine. Combine that with the instant sleep when I accidentally tap the power button (which on the RMBP is extremely easy to do, and *doesn't* require more than a standard keystroke to activate) that's frequently interrupting my workflow, Mavericks is a disaster. I've found other bugs as well. If you have an encrypted DMG, try and mount it. Permission denied. Even trying to create a new encrypted DMG image via disk utility, you get a permission denied error. (This has to do with the file permissions inside of the DMG, which are completely messed up. You can sudo su and take a look if you know what you're doing.) The finder is slow to refresh changes (on SMB ext2 formatted networked drives served by a router).  On my other MBP, networked drives periodically disconnect. They just drop off. Never had any of these problems with 10.8.

The only good thing about Mavericks is the independent displays, and even then there's some wonky behaviour if you are rotating the secondary display.

I'm incredibly disappointed in Mavericks. But I have hope. iOS 7 was awful for 7.0.1 and 7.0.2, and then 7.0.3 fixed *some* of the issues (although many still remain, mainly how webapps are handled and HTML5 implementation issues.)

/sits back and waits for the fanboys to accuse me of being a hater
I agree. I'm a 100% apple fan, so I'm not saying you're not or anything. The problem is they rushed both updates. Their primary focus was iOS 7 on the iPhone. When they got the main part of that working they started porting to the iPad, then they began on mavericks. That's why there are sooo many bugs. One, i dont know how the developers who tested it missed these bugs because they weren't reported to apple obviously, and two, that's why they have many many version numbers left for the updates. They'll fix it all. They're finally just catching up I bet.
post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Where’s the evidence of that? Of course they’re going to do one. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be reducing usability of their cursor OS by continuing to style it after their touchscreen OS. They wouldn’t be making UI elements larger, they wouldn’t be adding gestures… 

 

They’re going to do it right; just trust them. People didn’t figure the mouse would work, either.

 

Since when has Apple been about “just fine”?

 



I think Apple mentioned that will not be coming out with a multi-touch screen OS for desktops/laptops solely due to not being ergonomic. That when Microsoft came out with Metro UI for Windows 7.
Yeah at the snow leopard keynote they said they wouldn't be making touch screen Macs
post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They’re going to do it right; just trust them. People didn’t figure the mouse would work, either.

I think they already did it right… and it's called the iPad.
post #99 of 109
Originally Posted by akqies View Post
I think they already did it right… and it's called the iPad.

 

Exactly. Eventually Apple won’t sell laptops at all, just tablets and multitouch desktops.

post #100 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Exactly. Eventually Apple won’t sell laptops at all, just tablets and multitouch desktops.

Maybe, but I haven't seen any trends that would pull millions of sales per quarter off the shelves. I certainly have no desire to not have a notebook.

Jobs said PCs would be trucks and I believe that will include notebooks for the foreseeable future. Call them the cargo vans to the desktop workstation's Class-A semi truck.
post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Where’s the evidence of that? Of course they’re going to do one. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be reducing usability of their cursor OS by continuing to style it after their touchscreen OS. They wouldn’t be making UI elements larger, they wouldn’t be adding gestures… 

 

They’re going to do it right; just trust them. People didn’t figure the mouse would work, either.

 

Since when has Apple been about “just fine”?

 



I think Apple mentioned that will not be coming out with a multi-touch screen OS for desktops/laptops solely due to not being ergonomic. That when Microsoft came out with Metro UI for Windows 7.

I think you're fairly accurate in what you remember. Looks like at the 2010 MacBook Air intro these were Steve Jobs comments on laptop/desktop touchscreens:

“We’ve done tons of user testing on this,” Steve Jobs said in Wednesday’s press conference, “and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don’t want to be vertical. It gives great demo, but after a short period of time you start to fatigue, and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off.”
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/gorilla-arm-multitouch/

If you can find the podcast of the event I think you'll hear the comments at around the 1:57 mark.
Edited by Gatorguy - 11/8/13 at 9:10am
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post #102 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I think you're fairly accurate in what you remember. Looks like at the 2010 MacBook Air intro these were Steve Jobs comments on laptop/desktop touchscreens:

“We’ve done tons of user testing on this,” Steve Jobs said in Wednesday’s press conference, “and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don’t want to be vertical. It gives great demo, but after a short period of time you start to fatigue, and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off.”
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/gorilla-arm-multitouch/

If you can find the podcast of the event I think you'll hear the comments at around the 1:57 mark.

I only remembered the part of the speech that mattered.  But I can see small niche touchscreen products like Kiosks (which can be either Windows, Linux or Mac based, nothing new there) and Computer Based Whiteboards, things like that, but those already exist that one can design around a Mac, it just a 3rd party type items that are needed.  It's actually pretty cheap.  (Wiimote Whiteboard s/w and then a projector and IR pen, etc.)  I'm sure there MIGHT be some need for a touchscreen LCD display based computer for people standing up, but those are more specialty items.

post #103 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

So if I owe you $10 or $1000 you'd be fine with $1 because all trailing zeros get dropped?

How the fuçk can someone sign up for this site but not understand such rudimentary things?

This is a joke right? If you don't realise the trailing zeroes don't matter after the decimal point then you are dumber than a brick.
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post #104 of 109
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
This is a joke right? If you don't realise the trailing zeroes don't matter after the decimal point then you are dumber than a brick.

 

Mathematics ≠ software version numbering.

post #105 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

This is a joke right? If you don't realise the trailing zeroes don't matter after the decimal point then you are dumber than a brick.

Yes, all the periods with trailing values more than zero matter when you are talking about version numbers or an outline unless "you are dumber than a brick."

In regards to Apple this isn't just theoretical either. Even within the Apple naming scheme they have had x.10 and x.x.x versions.
post #106 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Mathematics ≠ software version numbering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akqies View Post

Yes, all the periods with trailing values more than zero matter when you are talking about version numbers or an outline unless "you are dumber than a brick."

In regards to Apple this isn't just theoretical either. Even within the Apple naming scheme they have had x.10 and x.x.x versions.

Oh for the love of God. I mentioned in my first post on this thread and every single post since that I know the difference between mathematics and software versioning. Learn to read.

In the post you both replied to akqies was talking mathematically. He said that if someone thinks 0.1 = 0.10 it's the same as $10 = $100. That's the dumbest post of the year.
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post #107 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Oh for the love of God. I mentioned in my first post on this thread and every single post since that I know the difference between mathematics and software versioning. Learn to read.

In the post you both replied to akqies was talking mathematically. He said that if someone thinks 0.1 = 0.10 it's the same as $10 = $100. That's the dumbest post of the year.

I said quite the opposite and you clearly don't understand how version numbers or outlines work. When Tallest Skil wrote "Are 10 and 1 the same number?" You replied with "No but 10.1 and 10.10 are." In a conversation about version numbers and not about decimal notation you are wrong.
Edited by akqies - 11/8/13 at 1:24pm
post #108 of 109

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning

"

Apple had their own twist on this habit during the era of the classic MacOS: although there were minor releases, they rarely went beyond 1, and when they did, they twice jumped straight to 5, suggesting a change of magnitude intermediate between a major and minor release (thus, 8.5 really means 'eight and a half', and 8.6 is 'eight and a half point one'). The complete sequence of versions (neglecting revision releases) is 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.2 (skipping 3.1), 4.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.1, 6.0, 7.0, 7.1, 7.5, 7.6, 8.0, 8.1, 8.5, 8.6, 9.0, 9.1, 9.2.

Mac OS X has departed from this trend, in large part because "X" (the roman numeral for 10) is in the name of the product. As a result, all versions of OSX begin with the number 10. The first major release of OSX was given the version number 10.0, but the next major release was not 11.0. Instead, it was named version 10.1, followed by 10.2, 10.3, and so on for each subsequent major release (currently at 10.9).

In this system, the third number (instead of the second) denotes a minor release, and a fourth number (instead of the third) denotes bug-fix/revision releases. Because the first number is always 10, and because the subsequent numbers are not decimal, but integer values, it is likely that a hypothetical 11th major version of OSX, should it exist, would be labeled "10.10" rather than "11.0".

"

post #109 of 109

Gonna chime in and say I want SL-style bugfix focus, as well as a UI revamp/unification.

 

To see what I mean regarding UI revamp, just open Preview...

 

 

Personal preference is for the lightest style. Actually super tempted to triple boot into http://elementaryos.org/ over the summer.

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