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Apple signs $578M sapphire deal with GT Advanced Technology - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


Blasphemy! Why didn't you just use stocks? :P



Apple wouldn't need to buy them, just gain a controlling interest and a seat on their board of directors.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

Tim Cook is kicking Icahn's butt.

This is the best way to spend Apple's billions - to spend on the supply and manufacturing chain so that Apple can make even more billions. This is textbook Tim Cook.

 

 

While Tim Cook's move was likely brilliant and bold, this has nothing to do with Icahn's point.  The amount spend here is a drop in the ocean compared to 1) the cash Apple already has sitting by idly, and 2) the multi tens of billions to flow in this year, and next year, and the year after that.

 

So if Apple can find about 300 more investments like this in the next 12 months that make sense.  Great.  If not, they should be using more of the idle cash for good use (of which buying back at these levels fits the bill).

 

All the people who repeat the meme that Apple should keep the cash and pour it into the business simply don't  understand Apple and math.  Twelve months from now, Apple will have almost $200,000,000,000.  That's an absurd amount of money to spend.   But for an enormous acquisition, it's virtually impossible.  An making an enormous (i.e., well over $100,000,000,000) acquisition would accomplish one thing:  destroy the culture at Apple that Jobs and Cook have worked so hard to build over past decade.

post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by commoncents View Post


While Tim Cook's move was likely brilliant and bold, this has nothing to do with Icahn's point.  The amount spend here is a drop in the ocean compared to 1) the cash Apple already has sitting by idly, and 2) the multi tens of billions to flow in this year, and next year, and the year after that.

So if Apple can find about 300 more investments like this in the next 12 months that make sense.  Great.  If not, they should be using more of the idle cash for good use (of which buying back at these levels fits the bill).

All the people who repeat the meme that Apple should keep the cash and pour it into the business simply don't  understand Apple and math.  Twelve months from now, Apple will have almost $200,000,000,000.  That's an absurd amount of money to spend.   But for an enormous acquisition, it's virtually impossible.  An making an enormous (i.e., well over $100,000,000,000) acquisition would accomplish one thing:  destroy the culture at Apple that Jobs and Cook have worked so hard to build over past decade.

Hogwash. This acquisition brings more value to Apple than Icahn's increased buy back.
post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by commoncents View Post
 

 

 

While Tim Cook's move was likely brilliant and bold, this has nothing to do with Icahn's point.  The amount spend here is a drop in the ocean compared to 1) the cash Apple already has sitting by idly, and 2) the multi tens of billions to flow in this year, and next year, and the year after that.

 

So if Apple can find about 300 more investments like this in the next 12 months that make sense.  Great.  If not, they should be using more of the idle cash for good use (of which buying back at these levels fits the bill).

 

All the people who repeat the meme that Apple should keep the cash and pour it into the business simply don't  understand Apple and math.  Twelve months from now, Apple will have almost $200,000,000,000.  That's an absurd amount of money to spend.   But for an enormous acquisition, it's virtually impossible.  An making an enormous (i.e., well over $100,000,000,000) acquisition would accomplish one thing:  destroy the culture at Apple that Jobs and Cook have worked so hard to build over past decade.

 

It has everything to do with ICahn's view point. This is just the beginning of Manufacturing investment, within the US from Apple and Carl knows it.

post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Hogwash. This acquisition brings more value to Apple than Icahn's increased buy back.

 

 

Did you even read my post?

 

This isn't an either-or situation.  No one with half a brain is suggesting Apple skip a single penny of investment into developing the core business.  The point for those who are not math-challenged is that even after Apple has done all this, they can't come close to even spending the ongoing cash flows, much less the $150,000,000,000 that is sitting around doing nothing.  It boggles my mind how numerically illiterate so many are that they don't understand that even if Apple spends $30,000,000,000 a year on investment (about triple what they've been doing), that the cash pile will still grow and grow and grow...nominally, that is.  Due to the absurdly low returns they're earning on that cash, it loses purchasing power every single day.

post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

It has everything to do with ICahn's view point. This is just the beginning of Manufacturing investment, within the US from Apple and Carl knows it.

 

 

Once again, MATH is needed to speak intelligently about this.

 

They could replicate the entirety of the manufacturing plants making every single component that goes into every single Apple device, and yet still not even use up the free cash flow coming in over the next twelve months, much less touch the $150,000,000,000 sitting idle.

 

Please...please, anyone else who wants to argue against a huge buyback (or one-time dividend), put at least some crude guestimates of numbers together to explain why Apple needs to hold on to their tens of billions of free cash flow this year in addition to the $150,000,000,000 they're sitting on.  Without numbers, it's all nonsense.

 

Again, the ONLY thing which could even come close to absorbing  all that cash would be an enormous acquisition (which would be horrible for Apple, and Cook would never consider that for half a second) or something ludicrous like starting from scratch and building their own cellular network (which would also be outrageously stupid).

post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by commoncents View Post


Did you even read my post?

This isn't an either-or situation.  No one with half a brain is suggesting Apple skip a single penny of investment into developing the core business.  The point for those who are not math-challenged is that even after Apple has done all this, they can't come close to even spending the ongoing cash flows, much less the $150,000,000,000 that is sitting around doing nothing.  It boggles my mind how numerically illiterate so many are that they don't understand that even if Apple spends $30,000,000,000 a year on investment (about triple what they've been doing), that the cash pile will still grow and grow and grow...nominally, that is.  Due to the absurdly low returns they're earning on that cash, it loses purchasing power every single day.

Let me get this straight, you want to forego 1% interest added for whatever interest rate Apple gets on loans to buy back shares (subtracted)? Buy backs do not guarantee a higher share price. Again, once Crazy Carl gets his target price, he's gone. Apple would still have billions of dollars in debt.

Most of the cash is oversees and will remain there.
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by commoncents View Post


While Tim Cook's move was likely brilliant and bold, this has nothing to do with Icahn's point.  The amount spend here is a drop in the ocean compared to 1) the cash Apple already has sitting by idly, and 2) the multi tens of billions to flow in this year, and next year, and the year after that.

So if Apple can find about 300 more investments like this in the next 12 months that make sense.  Great.  If not, they should be using more of the idle cash for good use (of which buying back at these levels fits the bill).

All the people who repeat the meme that Apple should keep the cash and pour it into the business simply don't  understand Apple and math.  Twelve months from now, Apple will have almost $200,000,000,000.  That's an absurd amount of money to spend.   But for an enormous acquisition, it's virtually impossible.  An making an enormous (i.e., well over $100,000,000,000) acquisition would accomplish one thing:  destroy the culture at Apple that Jobs and Cook have worked so hard to build over past decade.

Consider this: If the US enters a next phase of prolonged recession after the magical solutions employed by the Federal Reserve collapse, Apple will be the smartest kid in the classroom for holding on to their cash. Without veering too far off-thread, rest assured there are some very good reasons to assume we are in for much greater economic and social turmoil over the next twenty years.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Let me get this straight, you want to forego 1% interest added for whatever interest rate Apple gets on loans to buy back shares (subtracted)? Buy backs do not guarantee a higher share price. Again, once Crazy Carl gets his target price, he's gone. Apple would still have billions of dollars in debt.

Most of the cash is oversees and will remain there.

 

 

First of all, the fundamental reason to buy back shares is if you believe that they are available for significantly less than the intrinsic value of the business.  Period.  If the shares are indeed below their intrinsic value and many are repurchased, then the value of the business for the remaining shareholders will be increased.  When that will show up in the share price?  Who knows.  Mr. Market is quite fickle.  But the value will have been increased nonetheless.  (If you don't believe that AAPL is significantly undervalued at these prices, then it's just time to move on)

 

Secondly, I do not particularly care for the idea of borrowing money for the repurchases.  I prefer just repatriating the overseas cash, eating the spinach (i.e., paying the taxes), and getting on with life.  For I find it extraordinarily unlikely that the U.S. is ever going to lower taxes for any corporations at this point, both because a huge group in Washington is ideologically opposed to "rich, greedy" corporations, and because we're already drowning in unfunded liabilities, which only get worse by the day.

post #50 of 54
Commoncents, as long as the current administration remains in Washington, nothing further of note will happen, especially with regard to tax reform. Obama has settled into his lame duck chair and will be forced to sit there until 2016.

And if 2016 ends up a contest between Hillary Clinton and Chrispy Kreme Christie, we will have entered the final stages of full-blown Idiocracy.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by commoncents View Post


First of all, the fundamental reason to buy back shares is if you believe that they are available for significantly less than the intrinsic value of the business.  Period.  If the shares are indeed below their intrinsic value and many are repurchased, then the value of the business for the remaining shareholders will be increased.  When that will show up in the share price?  Who knows.  Mr. Market is quite fickle.  But the value will have been increased nonetheless.  (If you don't believe that AAPL is significantly undervalued at these prices, then it's just time to move on)

Secondly, I do not particularly care for the idea of borrowing money for the repurchases.  I prefer just repatriating the overseas cash, eating the spinach (i.e., paying the taxes), and getting on with life.  For I find it extraordinarily unlikely that the U.S. is ever going to lower taxes for any corporations at this point, both because a huge group in Washington is ideologically opposed to "rich, greedy" corporations, and because we're already drowning in unfunded liabilities, which only get worse by the day.

Ok now this makes less sense. You fret at the 1% interest Apple is earning yet you want to repatriate the money at a 25%(?) tax rate?
post #52 of 54

So let's assume that the U.S. never eliminates this tax on repatriated funds (and if you

don't think this is a good assumption, I'd love to hear your rationale).

 

Then what should Apple do, leave the money overseas FOREVER?  

 

If they NEVER bring it back, it's worthless to shareholders.

 

And if they're going to do it some time, why not now?  As they say, time is money.  And the money

they're sitting on is losing purchasing power by the day...it's like water in a bucket with a slow leak.

I say fix the leak now.

post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by commoncents View Post

So let's assume that the U.S. never eliminates this tax on repatriated funds (and if you
don't think this is a good assumption, I'd love to hear your rationale).

Then what should Apple do, leave the money overseas FOREVER?  

If they NEVER bring it back, it's worthless to shareholders.

And if they're going to do it some time, why not now?  As they say, time is money.  And the money
they're sitting on is losing purchasing power by the day...it's like water in a bucket with a slow leak.
I say fix the leak now.

It's worth more overseas than it is to repatriate it at 25% tax rate. Besides, they are using the cash to buy things they need from outside the states.

You think Apple uses US cash to build stores, buy components that are created outside the US?
post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

Tim Cook is kicking Icahn's butt.

This is the best way to spend Apple's billions - to spend on the supply and manufacturing chain so that Apple can make even more billions. This is textbook Tim Cook.

Of course Icahn finds a way to connect his name to Apple again today with a claim that he and Cook are in agreement.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101151952
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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