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Only one third of Samsung's smartphone sales are in the class of Apple's iPhone

post #1 of 116
Thread Starter 
In a meeting with its concerned investors on Wednesday, the head of Samsung Mobile revealed numbers illustrating that the company sold fewer high end smartphones than Apple this year, and that only about a third of the company's total "smartphone" shipments are of a class really comparable to the iPhone.



Disregard sales, acquire companies



Samsung's investor meeting, intended to instill confidence in investors worried about flattening sales of profitable, high end smartphones, focused attention on the company's stated plans to accelerate the pace of its acquisitions.

A report by Jungah Lee for Bloomberg cited Samsung's chief financial officer Lee Sang Hoon as saying, "Going forward, we will expand our mergers-and-acquisitions strategy beyond a few target areas to pursue opportunities across a wide range of fields."

Samsung said it has only spent around $1 billion on 14 different acquisitions since 2010. That's a far cry from Google, which has averaged one acquisition per week over that period, and even much less than Apple, which recently announced having made 15 "strategic acquisitions" over the past year.

Is Samsung beating Apple in smartphones?



The Bloomberg report stated that "the company, which overtook Apple Inc. (AAPL) in smartphones, has used sales of cheaper handsets in emerging markets to stoke earnings in mobiles as growth in high-end devices slows amid market saturation."

That's a sugar coated version of what Samsung reported in its latest quarterly earnings report, where it clearly stated: "total shipments [of smartphones were] up QoQ led by increased sales of mass-market models," but "high-end model shipments stayed at similar level QoQ."

Samsung smartphones flat


In stark contrast, Apple's iPhone sales were up 26 percent over the year ago quarter, setting a new volume record for the September quarter. All of Apple's smartphones are "high end," unlike the outdated, 2008-era Galaxy Y model Strategy Analytics Executive Director Neil Mawston cited as an example of the "mass-market models" he said were helping to "lift" Samsung's volumes.

Samsung rarely provides firm numbers for actual smartphone sales, nor does it regularly detail how many are "high end" iPhone competitors and how many are simply basic camera-phones running an old version of Android 2.x, and sold at razor thin profit margins.



Strategy Analytics has become famous for lumping these sales together to award Samsung for being the global smartphone leader, despite the fact that Samsung Mobile earns much less profit (over $1 billion less, below) than Apple despite its much larger numbers of smartphone shipments (more than 3.5x, above).



Samsung's ships two-thirds as many Galaxy S, Note as Apple's iPhone



However, the Bloomberg report noted, in passing, at its very end a comment made by Samsung's mobile chief Shin Jong Kyun, who outlined at the investor event (as portrayed on Samsung's slide below) that "the company will sell a combined 100 million units of its Galaxy S and Note series handsets this year."



According to a (Korean language; machine translated) report by ETNews, Samsung targets total "smartphone" sales this year at 300-310 million, and plans to sell around 360 million in 2014, of which about 126 million will be "premium models."

That report described Samsung's flagship Galaxy S4 as having "sluggish sales this year," and referenced the firm's "the low-end model-driven business strategy." The company originally projected that the Galaxy S4 would sell 100 million units a year on its own, before sales collapsed this spring shortly after its launch.

Samsung's current sales and future plans consistently describe that only around one third of Samsung's "smartphones" are actually comparable to Apple's current iPhones, albeit being a generation behind.

GeekBench


Samsung's U.S. Galaxy S4 handles benchmarks slightly slower than Apple's iPhone 5c (which is very similar to the iPhone 5 Apple released last year), while all of Samsung's smartphones still lack the 64-bit power and extended battery efficiency of Apple's A7-powered iPhone 5s flagship.

AnandTech


Over the last fiscal year, Apple reported sales of 150 million iPhones. Unlike Samsung, Apple is not reporting an end to high end sales growth. Instead, Apple's high end is growing faster (26 percent) than than the overall phone industry (7 percent), according to CNET.

That's a serious problem for Samsung, which makes about two thirds of its total profits from smartphone sales. Apple also relies very heavily upon iPhone sales, but it also has profitable Mac, iPad and iTunes, software and service related businesses, which generate ten times the profit of Samsung's struggling Chromebook netbook, Android tablet and Windows PC sales.
post #2 of 116
Acquiring companies is not in itself a strategy, is it? You first come up with a strategy, and then you acquire companies (or don't, as needed) to achieve it. Acquisitions are a tactic.

If I was a shareholder of this company and went to an investors' meeting and they said the strategy was to "make more acquisitions" I would be mortified.
post #3 of 116
So if Samsung alone is selling 2/3 of Apple's volume in high-end phones, can we all finally agree that high-end Android phones combined outsell the iPhone?
post #4 of 116
So Samsung high-end smartphones represent 81.3 millions/3 = 27,1 on Q3 2013. Apple Insider said in a previous article (http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/22/iphone-5-accounts-for-half-of-apples-smartphone-sales-iphone-4s-takes-30) that about half of iPhone were iPhone 5 , this will let to 33,8*0,48 = 16,22 millions Apple high-end smartphone (iPhone 4S and 4 were from 2011).

[All data came from IDC Q3 2013]

So we can estimate sales on Q3 2013 : iPhone high-end smartphone sales (iPhone 5 ) are 16,22 millions to be compare with Samsung high-end smartphone sales at 27,1 millions.....
post #5 of 116
A bit deceptive to show one of the graphs for the battery benchmark where the 5s wins ( 30m), while the other bench (browsing using wifi, which is 90% of my web browsing) shows the lg g2 ( 2h), note3 ( 1h) and htc one x( 1h) beating out the 5s by a significant margin.
post #6 of 116
I'd not describe the 4s as high end, sure the casing and screen are high quality but the phone is getting long in the tooth now.
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post #7 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

So if Samsung alone is selling 2/3 of Apple's volume in high-end phones, can we all finally agree that high-end Android phones combined outsell the iPhone?

OK, if that's what floats your boat.
post #8 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoconscient View Post

So Samsung high-end smartphones represent 81.3 millions/3 = 27,1 on Q3 2013. Apple Insider said in a previous article (http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/22/iphone-5-accounts-for-half-of-apples-smartphone-sales-iphone-4s-takes-30) that about half of iPhone were iPhone 5 , this will let to 33,8*0,48 = 16,22 millions Apple high-end smartphone (iPhone 4S and 4 were from 2011).

[All data came from IDC Q3 2013]

So we can estimate sales on Q3 2013 : iPhone high-end smartphone sales (iPhone 5 ) are 16,22 millions to be compare with Samsung high-end smartphone sales at 27,1 millions.....

You are failing to comprehend that "high end" here basically means iPhone 4 or better.

Most of Samsung's "smartphones" are $100-$300 basic phones barely running Android and not capable of using apps or getting upgrades.

We aren't splitting hairs between "very latest model" and "year or two old"

Most of Strategy Analytics' smartphone numbers are counting low end junk, just like the tablet numbers that are mostly no name things that sell for $40-$90

Android fans imagine that the mass market is Nexus/Galaxy/HTC One stuff comparable to iPhone. Only a very small fraction is.

Samsung sells way more than half of the premium android phones in the US, and there aren't many sold in most "emerging markets"
post #9 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

So if Samsung alone is selling 2/3 of Apple's volume in high-end phones, can we all finally agree that high-end Android phones combined outsell the iPhone?

Do you think Samsung only makes 60% of android profits? If so, go read more. Samsung sells the most premium android phones by far.

That's why everyone else is losing money and not proud enough of their sales numbers to even report them.
post #10 of 116
I personally chuckle that the Snapdragon is a Quad-core CPU with the new Adreno 330 GPGPU SoC running at 1Ghz clock ticking higher, and more than twice the system RAM only

TOO LOSE IN PERFORMANCE ACROSS THE BOARD.

When Apple jumps up in RAM [if reports are correct] to triple that of their current levels, with an Quad Core A8 [or later], while still being finicky on wasting energy perhaps then people will figure out that the talent amassed at Apple is top of the stack.
post #11 of 116
Quote:
You are failing to comprehend that "high end" here basically means iPhone 4 or better.

Most of Samsung's "smartphones" are $100-$300 basic phones barely running Android and not capable of using apps or getting upgrades.

We aren't splitting hairs between "very latest model" and "year or two old"

Do you really think two years old smartphone iPhone (4/4S) is still high-end ? Samsung high-ends smartphones price-tag (Galaxy S4 / Note 3) are comparable with Apple iPhone's price-tag 600$ .

I'm not splitting the hairs, I'm just analyzing the market and phone performance's correctly without passion. Apple Insider just gave you the facts to say "Samsung outsells Apple even on premium segment..."

Apple has a strategy to keep selling old-phone like 4S in order to attract budget-conscious buyers. It's a good strategy ! And beeing second in premium market is still a good position.... no matter what.

Hopefully, Apple Q4 sales should allow Apple to be soon again number one in premium market segment, at least for a quarter 1wink.gif.
post #12 of 116
More than anything I think this shows a general market trend. Maintaining sales of £500-£600 phones is going to be hard. Particularly if you consider the iPhone 3G only cost £350 and since then £100 phones have improved to the point where they do the same stuff as a £600 phone but are just made of plastic and have lower quality screens.
post #13 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Acquiring companies is not in itself a strategy, is it? You first come up with a strategy, and then you acquire companies (or don't, as needed) to achieve it. Acquisitions are a tactic.

If I was a shareholder of this company and went to an investors' meeting and they said the strategy was to "make more acquisitions" I would be mortified.

 

Do you consider Apple's acquisition of Intrinsity & PA-semi as a business strategy or tactic?

post #14 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


You are failing to comprehend that "high end" here basically means iPhone 4 or better.

Most of Samsung's "smartphones" are $100-$300 basic phones barely running Android and not capable of using apps or getting upgrades.

We aren't splitting hairs between "very latest model" and "year or two old"

Most of Strategy Analytics' smartphone numbers are counting low end junk, just like the tablet numbers that are mostly no name things that sell for $40-$90

Android fans imagine that the mass market is Nexus/Galaxy/HTC One stuff comparable to iPhone. Only a very small fraction is.

Samsung sells way more than half of the premium android phones in the US, and there aren't many sold in most "emerging markets"

 

Sure, do you have any data to back up your claims?  Considering Samsung doesn't publish their sales/shipment unit, like Dilger, you seem to be pulling numbers out of your a**.

post #15 of 116
Does AI have numbers to back up what they're reporting here?
post #16 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoconscient View Post


Do you really think two years old smartphone iPhone (4/4S) is still high-end ? Samsung high-ends smartphones price-tag (Galaxy S4 / Note 3) are comparable with Apple iPhone's price-tag 600$ .

I'm not splitting the hairs, I'm just analyzing the market and phone performance's correctly without passion. Apple Insider just gave you the facts to say "Samsung outsells Apple even on premium segment..."

Apple has a strategy to keep selling old-phone like 4S in order to attract budget-conscious buyers. It's a good strategy ! And beeing second in premium market is still a good position.... no matter what.

Hopefully, Apple Q4 sales should allow Apple to be soon again number one in premium market segment, at least for a quarter 1wink.gif.

 

If the definition of a smartphone is to be able to run apps well, yes the 4s is still high end smartphone. Heck, even the lowly old 3GS I kept (i  use a lot more the ipad mini now, keep the phone for calls and maps mostly) run better than some of the lowend samsungs I see around.

The galaxy S line is not so bad ( but i really dislike the screen both for colors and lack of responsiveness, and the flimsy plastic shell) but the low end of the bucket is really junk, to the point that a nokia  dumbphone is actually better value.

post #17 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Does AI have numbers to back up what they're reporting here?

Read the article
post #18 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Sure, do you have any data to back up your claims?  Considering Samsung doesn't publish their sales/shipment unit, like Dilger, you seem to be pulling numbers out of your a**.

Read the article
post #19 of 116

I've always updated at the end of my 2 year contract, but my Iphone 4s is still performing very well, its all relative....Compares to the S4 or 5s, no it's not high end, compared to everything else then yes it is.

 

 2 years old or not it's still a very powerful phone, and to write off the 4s or any other (apple, galaxy or HTC) phone because they are not as powerful as the very latest is foolish.

post #20 of 116
wait....
there are samsung phones actually comparable to iPhone??
did I miss something?
post #21 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Read the article
I did. Still looking for actual sales or shipment figures to back up your claim.
post #22 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

OK, if that's what floats your boat.

Apple still makes more profit selling less phones. That's the actual point of this article.
post #23 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Considering Samsung doesn't publish their sales/shipment unit, like Dilger, you seem to be pulling numbers out of your a**.

Corrections IS Dilger. New members probably don't catch on to that right away.
Edited by Gatorguy - 11/6/13 at 3:22am
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post #24 of 116
"ONLY ONE THIRD OF SAMSUNG'S SMARTPHONE SALES ARE IN THE SAME CATEGORY OF APPLE'S IPHONE BUT NONE ARE IN THE SAME CLASS"

Fixed that for AI.
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post #25 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

So if Samsung alone is selling 2/3 of Apple's volume in high-end phones, can we all finally agree that high-end Android phones combined outsell the iPhone?

The rest of Android would also need to sell 1/3 of Apple's volume. Do they?

post #26 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Most of Samsung's "smartphones" are $100-$300 basic phones barely running Android and not capable of using apps or getting upgrades.

 

Which 2013 Samsung Android smartphones can't run apps? Do you have any sales data for these models? Models like the S4 mini certainly can run apps.

 

You're making assertions without backing them up with any specifics or data.

post #27 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoconscient View Post


Do you really think two years old smartphone iPhone (4/4S) is still high-end ? Samsung high-ends smartphones price-tag (Galaxy S4 / Note 3) are comparable with Apple iPhone's price-tag 600$ .

I'm not splitting the hairs, I'm just analyzing the market and phone performance's correctly without passion. Apple Insider just gave you the facts to say "Samsung outsells Apple even on premium segment..."

Apple has a strategy to keep selling old-phone like 4S in order to attract budget-conscious buyers. It's a good strategy ! And beeing second in premium market is still a good position.... no matter what.

Hopefully, Apple Q4 sales should allow Apple to be soon again number one in premium market segment, at least for a quarter 1wink.gif.

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post #28 of 116
That Samsung ad that touts how many Galaxy series and Notes sold is very reminiscent of McDonalds boasting that they serve 1,000,000,000 burgers yearly on their marques. Samsung is very McDonalds-esqe as in people do buy some of McDonalds premium 5 dollar burgers, but most buy dollar cheeseburgers or the big mac.
Edited by hutchitl - 11/6/13 at 4:21am
post #29 of 116

I've used an S4 and I didn't get the impression it was "smart phone". I guess somethings are subjective as to me it was far inferior to an iPhone 4s.

post #30 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I personally chuckle that the Snapdragon is a Quad-core CPU with the new Adreno 330 GPGPU SoC running at 1Ghz clock ticking higher, and more than twice the system RAM only

TOO LOSE IN PERFORMANCE ACROSS THE BOARD.

When Apple jumps up in RAM [if reports are correct] to triple that of their current levels, with an Quad Core A8 [or later], while still being finicky on wasting energy perhaps then people will figure out that the talent amassed at Apple is top of the stack.

Why wait for Apple to come out with a quad-core processor and more RAM? 

 

C|Net already published benchmarks showing the 5S creaming everything in the premium Android camp that uses quad-core and more RAM.

http://reviews.cnet.com/iphone-5s/

 

Of course, the Fandroids are crying foul and bias, but the facts are facts.

post #31 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post
 

Why wait for Apple to come out with a quad-core processor and more RAM? 

 

C|Net already published benchmarks showing the 5S creaming everything in the premium Android camp that uses quad-core and more RAM.

http://reviews.cnet.com/iphone-5s/

 

 

 

Or they simply jump ship to Intel baytrail z3770 and its successors which currently trump the A7 in most benchmarks.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/5

 

That's the advantage Android has, they can jump ship to whatever hardware platforms offers best in class. (Note : I did not see any battery usage benchmarks on the baytrail yet, anyone ?)

post #32 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoconscient View Post

Quote:
You are failing to comprehend that "high end" here basically means iPhone 4 or better.

Most of Samsung's "smartphones" are $100-$300 basic phones barely running Android and not capable of using apps or getting upgrades.

We aren't splitting hairs between "very latest model" and "year or two old"

Do you really think two years old smartphone iPhone (4/4S) is still high-end ? Samsung high-ends smartphones price-tag (Galaxy S4 / Note 3) are comparable with Apple iPhone's price-tag 600$ .

I'm not splitting the hairs, I'm just analyzing the market and phone performance's correctly without passion. Apple Insider just gave you the facts to say "Samsung outsells Apple even on premium segment..."

Apple has a strategy to keep selling old-phone like 4S in order to attract budget-conscious buyers. It's a good strategy ! And beeing second in premium market is still a good position.... no matter what.

Hopefully, Apple Q4 sales should allow Apple to be soon again number one in premium market segment, at least for a quarter 1wink.gif.

Wow. Way to miss the point....
post #33 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoconscient View Post

So Samsung high-end smartphones represent 81.3 millions/3 = 27,1 on Q3 2013. Apple Insider said in a previous article (http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/22/iphone-5-accounts-for-half-of-apples-smartphone-sales-iphone-4s-takes-30) that about half of iPhone were iPhone 5 , this will let to 33,8*0,48 = 16,22 millions Apple high-end smartphone (iPhone 4S and 4 were from 2011).

[All data came from IDC Q3 2013]

So we can estimate sales on Q3 2013 : iPhone high-end smartphone sales (iPhone 5 ) are 16,22 millions to be compare with Samsung high-end smartphone sales at 27,1 millions.....

A GSII is "high end" just like an iPhone 4S would be. You can't count all Galaxy S models and discard the iPhone 4/4S/5/5C models.
post #34 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post


Apple still makes more profit selling less phones. That's the actual point of this article.

That's just about it. Android sells a lot of really low-end stuff to lower-income and emerging market consumers. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not the segment in which Apple competes.

People can chase, and brag about, market shares all they want, but it amounts to a hill of beans in terms of what actually matters. As someone pointed out, it's like McDonalds claiming to have sold a gazillion billon burgers.

My only trouble with this article is, it appears to state the obvious. It's possible that I am missing some larger subtlety here!
post #35 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
 

Do you consider Apple's acquisition of Intrinsity & PA-semi as a business strategy or tactic?

 

  • The strategy was to develop their own IP as much as possible to maintain a competitive advantage as opposed to the more common strategy of leveraging COTS components to reduce R&D cost.
  • One operational objective selected in the execution this strategy was to develop their own ARM SoC IP.

  • The acquisition of Intrinsity and PA-Semi were tactical actions to meet that operational objective.

 

He's right in that acquisitions are Tactical to meet some Operational goal that supports some Strategy.

 

However, it is highly unlikely that anybody in the room didn't understand this.  The strategy was clearly stated:

 

  • The strategy is to further diversify from "its core consumer electronics" business because of increased competition and market saturation.
  • The operational objective is to find a new field it can dominate.
  • The tactic is to acquire companies outside of their current target areas to jumpstart themselves in these new fields. In other words...not just companies like Sharp that Samsung Electronics has invested in the past.  This isn't much different than the acquisition of Intrinsity and PA Semi for Apple.

 

I think that the strategy is a bit obvious though given that the overarching company already makes everything from washing machines to smart phones to flash ram to cars (Renault Samsung Motors - Samsung started it, sold it to Renault but still owns 20%), heavy construction equipment, ships (Samsung Heavy Industries part of the Samsung Group), life insurance and theme parks.

 

It's kinda their default go-to strategy whenever some growth area peters out.  Find a new one.

post #36 of 116
I think the point here is (and to use an automotive market analogy): comparing sales numbers of Samsung to Apple without a breakdown is like comparing General Motors to BMW. Sure GM overall may have sold more cars than BMW, but without a breakdown, we cannot assume that Cadillac was better selling than BMW; and that's exactly what Samsung is doing here. Comparing Apples to Apples + Lemons without differentiating between the two.
Anyone who has been following this from the beginning, years ago, will remember when Apple used to pummel Samsung in sales #s until one day Samsung got wise/sick of it/shamed and sent out a press release indicating they will no longer be providing sales breakdowns by model.

(Please forgive my example of comparing GM and Samsung, the two companies are on completely different levels of class, and unlike Samsung, GM has worked through R&D to position itself strongly as one of the best auto maker out there right now. But in terms of low end vs high end, the example stands.)
post #37 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

 

Which 2013 Samsung Android smartphones can't run apps? Do you have any sales data for these models? Models like the S4 mini certainly can run apps.

 

You're making assertions without backing them up with any specifics or data.

 

example :

 

galaxy Y still sold in EU, dont know  in US.

That is a 2012 phone and yet :

 

Android 2.3 gingerbread

3" 320x240 beyond awfull quality

single core 833 Mhz

2 Mb camera

Battery given for 9h, you are lucky if you get half of that.

 

Sold by the boatfull to youngers as it cost only  70€ contract free.

And it is not the worse "(not-so)smartphone" sold by Samesong.

 

The Ace 2 is actually pretty decent but cost twice that price despite using 4 years outdated components and being slower in use than a 3GS. And the lumia 520 toast it for an equivalent price.

post #38 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Acquiring companies is not in itself a strategy, is it? You first come up with a strategy, and then you acquire companies (or don't, as needed) to achieve it. Acquisitions are a tactic.

If I was a shareholder of this company and went to an investors' meeting and they said the strategy was to "make more acquisitions" I would be mortified.

 

Do you consider Apple's acquisition of Intrinsity & PA-semi as a business strategy or tactic?

 

His point is that it is a tactic. The strategy appears to have been to move to a custom SoC to get and maintain an advantage against those using off the shelf components.

 

Acquiring those companies was one way to realize that strategy by bringing design in-house. They could have achieved that goal by agreements with a vendor for custom design for their sole use or even just started staffing up with experts in the field to build a new team. For all we know they may have approached PA-semi about deal for SoC design and then figured out it would be better to acquire them. I suspect the strategy was to get it in-house all along due to Apple's secrecy, but made the possibilities much broader in response to the context of this thread. 

 

Either way, we don't actually know what Apple's strategy is as all we see are the results of their execution towards that strategy. 

post #39 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

A GSII is "high end" just like an iPhone 4S would be. You can't count all Galaxy S models and discard the iPhone 4/4S/5/5C models.

 

You can if you're trolling.

post #40 of 116
But... but... but Android is winning and Apple is doomed. If Samsung were an American company sitting in Apple's place right now they'd probably have a share price of around $2000. Samsung would be the perfect company for Wall Street investors when it comes to having to have the highest amount of market share possible. Samsung believes in beating rivals to death and eliminating all competition. It would be great to be a shareholder of a company like that. There would never be any worries about any smaller companies coming up and taking away market share because they'd quickly go out of business.

Apple is stupid to just let Samsung do as they please. Apple could have been in the top position in the smartphone and tablet industry and they just let Samsung take it away in about a six months time-frame and Apple shareholders paid dearly for that blunder. Apple still hasn't recovered those lost tens of billions of market cap. Now with Samsung openly gunning for them, Apple shareholders might as well just give up hoping for an Apple rebound.

Apple is simply going to continue on its own path of building high%u2013quality products for the elite and Samsung is going to drown Apple with a massive flood of devices aimed at every consumer on the planet. It will ruin Apple shareholders and drive potential investors away from Apple in droves. Apple will be lucky to be worth anything when this war is over.
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