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Samsung tempers expectations for a 64-bit Android answer to Apple's A7 - Page 3

post #81 of 172

Privately, Lee told industry insiders that the company was focusing its efforts on a new 64-bit refrigerator.

post #82 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Is this Apple Insider or Samsung insider? Why do we need all these Samsung stories? 1oyvey.gif

Do yourself a favor and turn your complaint reflex into something constructive. Remember when you were saying why can't Apple do a high-density screen on the mini when Google and Amazon could?

Maybe you can acknowledge that the answer is at hand, if you can back up Raymond Soniera's claim that they're using IGZO backplanes. Did LG license the tech from Sharp? Did Samsung, if they're making displays for the iPad Air? Or was it enough that Apple used a new processor?

Shouldn't we know as much as possible about what the others are doing in order to understand what Apple is doing differently? Would have saved you and me a lot of time around this retina display question a few months ago.
Edited by Flaneur - 11/7/13 at 9:52am
post #83 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
 

If Apple produces a 4.5 to 4.7" screen,  the difference between a 5"+ will still be enough to encourage people to buy Samsung, especially the 'phablet crowd'.   Why Apple hasn't released such a phone already is very hard to justify.

Au contraire, it's easy to justify. The envy of every other manufacturer is the breadth and depth of apps that iOS has. Apple can (and did) double the resolution without jeopardizing compatibility of all those apps, but any non-integral change will currently cause problems. That's where auto-layout in iOS7 will make the change to a larger display possible and profitable. It's a win for developers, too.

post #84 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
 

I believe you may be right that Samsung will have a tougher time next year, as it's going to be harder to differentiate itself from Apple if Apple actually produces a phone with a 5" screen.

It will be tougher on Samsung next year than you apparently know, because Apple is methodically eliminating Samsung as a source of components.

It will also be interesting (nee fun!) to see how the Rockstar lawsuit goes.

post #85 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post
 

Market for so-called premium Android phones will freeze, not just cool down next year with arrival of larger screen iPhone. 

 

Doubt it. The latest Android offerings and OS are pretty good. Apple will always hold back the latest-and-greatest for next years device, whatever that is. Since Samsung is always willing to "throw shit at the wall to see what sticks", there will always be a market for the cutting edge stuff.

post #86 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post
 

Au contraire, it's easy to justify. The envy of every other manufacturer is the breadth and depth of apps that iOS has. Apple can (and did) double the resolution without jeopardizing compatibility of all those apps, but any non-integral change will currently cause problems. That's where auto-layout in iOS7 will make the change to a larger display possible and profitable. It's a win for developers

 

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't think of auto-layout in iOS 1 doesn't it?

 

Seems a bit of a shame to me that Apple has lost the entire Phablet market plus all of the market for people who want phones > 4".  

 

It's not like Samsung has gained hugely because of this little oversight, or that many people actually buy non-Apple phones > 4"; actually I'm pretty sure that every other manufacturer's flagship phone is <3".  And it's not like much of Apple's profits are tied up with the iPhone either..so no reason to rush...hell if we get a 4.5" screen in 2015, that's good enough for me.

post #87 of 172

How is this news?  Samsung is just waiting until the technology is flawless before they release it to the masses.  It's in their nature to only release things once they're just right, unlike some other companies who just rush out half-baked technologies in order to say they're first.

...   ...   ...  :lol:

Sorry, I couldn't say it with a straight face.

post #88 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrustyMcLovin View Post

. . .Apple will always hold back the latest-and-greatest for next years device, whatever that is. . . .

This is one of the hollowest memes in the trollbook.

Apple holds back the new technology until it can be integrated into the rest of the device, into the software, and into the ecosystem. Sometimes they push it and make compromises, like with the apps for the iPhone 4, or the weight and thickness on the iPad 3.

Give us one example of them holding back new tech so they can upsell the next year. Every one you think of will be shot down by the need to integrate.
post #89 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

How is this news?  Samsung is just waiting until the technology is flawless before they release it to the masses.  It's in their nature to only release things once they're just right, unlike some other companies who just rush out half-baked technologies in order to say they're first.

...   ...   ...  :lol:

Sorry, I couldn't say it with a straight face.

How exactly is ARMv8 a half-baked technology being rushed out? ARMv8 was announced 2 years ago and reference cores were released a year ago. The A7 using ARMv8 is basically the opposite of the crap that Samsung shovels out like S-Voice, S-this, S-that, and S-other.

post #90 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Sigh, yes, except I really wanted the speed of LTE I'd still have my 4s: loved that phone. Great feel and design.

A guy I work with just got the Nexus 5. It actually isn't a bad looking phone, seems smooth and fast. But I guess that's the advantage to not being bogged down with all the skins the other manufacturers put on their Android phones.
post #91 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post
 

How exactly is ARMv8 a half-baked technology being rushed out? ARMv8 was announced 2 years ago and reference cores were released a year ago. The A7 using ARMv8 is basically the opposite of the crap that Samsung shovels out like S-Voice, S-this, S-that, and S-other.

Way to completely miss the joke.

post #92 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

Way to completely miss the joke.

Jokes are defined by being funny, no? And, no, I got your attempt at a joke. It just completely failed and missed the mark. The A7 is not half-baked nor rushed and hence your "joke" basically falls flat.

post #93 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't think of auto-layout in iOS 1 doesn't it?

Seems a bit of a shame to me that Apple has lost the entire Phablet market plus all of the market for people who want phones > 4".  

It's not like Samsung has gained hugely because of this little oversight, or that many people actually buy non-Apple phones > 4"; actually I'm pretty sure that every other manufacturer's flagship phone is <3".  And it's not like much of Apple's profits are tied up with the iPhone either..so no reason to rush...hell if we get a 4.5" screen in 2015, that's good enough for me.

How can someone lose a game they weren't even playing in?
post #94 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
 

sarcasm right?

 

heh of course

Doodle Dice iPhone puzzle game: A fun, free physics-laden collection of dice games.  Greatest app made yet?  Perhaps young man... Perhaps.
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Doodle Dice iPhone puzzle game: A fun, free physics-laden collection of dice games.  Greatest app made yet?  Perhaps young man... Perhaps.
Reply
post #95 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't think of auto-layout in iOS 1 doesn't it?

Seems a bit of a shame to me that Apple has lost the entire Phablet market plus all of the market for people who want phones > 4". . . .

And you're not seeing the hardware as an integrated system either. Was it Ive or Schiller that said they've been working on the iPad Air for years? What that meant was that Apple isn't going to make a larger high-density screen until they can do it without the trade-offs, and that means they were working to get the 64-bit A7 done, and almost certainly in my opinion the IGZO backplane that Soniera was talking about.

While they're pouring billions into display and processor development, they don't have any business tossing out half-assed interim bigger screen sops to the crowd that doesn't care about anything but eye candy.
post #96 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

Market for so-called premium Android phones will freeze, not just cool down next year with arrival of larger screen iPhone. 

The market for larger phones is already dead. Think about it, how many normal people want to slip a device that big into their pocket and carry it around all day.

Now that isn't to say that a limited market doesn't exist, just don't expect Apple to have a run away hit if they ever introduce such an iPhone. These massive phones are niche market devices after the trendy appeal wears off.
post #97 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


How can someone lose a game they weren't even playing in?

 

Please don't ever try and run a company.

post #98 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

Please don't ever try and run a company.

In that case Apple lost the feature phone race, the appliance race, the tablet-PC hybrid race, the mega phablets race, the tiny screen race, etc...
post #99 of 172

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post #100 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tee Ph Ph View Post
 

deleted

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 

 

So DeD head is hinting Apple copied those elements from Samsung then.  They have been on show before anyone saw any aspects of iOS 7.

 

The Note III doesn't have 64bit architecture and it's no slouch in performance terms.  It's GPU outperforms the 5s according to Anandtech.  But seriously, the performance of all the high end phones is so impressive that arguing which one is a few percent better in specs or performance is willy waving.

it slightly outperforms the 5s in GPU performance. But did you factor in the Shamesung doping yet?

post #101 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


The market for larger phones is already dead. Think about it, how many normal people want to slip a device that big into their pocket and carry it around all day.

Now that isn't to say that a limited market doesn't exist, just don't expect Apple to have a run away hit if they ever introduce such an iPhone. These massive phones are niche market devices after the trendy appeal wears off.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean.  These trendy kids keep wanting to use their phones to play games, surf the web and view images; heck I've even heard that some of them watch videos!   If only they would stick to using a phone for what its meant to be used for, talking and texting!    I think this trend is already dying, I saw a guy using his phone to talk to someone just last week!

post #102 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
 

 

Yeah, I know what you mean.  These trendy kids keep wanting to use their phones to play games, surf the web and view images; heck I've even heard that some of them watch videos!   If only they would stick to using a phone for what its meant to be used for, talking and texting!    I think this trend is already dying, I saw a guy using his phone to talk to someone just last week!

 

I think the market for large phones basically has evolved into one addressing the needs of people who cannot afford computers... cheap, crappy computers.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #103 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevliu1980 View Post

I actually think smartphone SOCs have hit their 'Core 2 Duo' moment - where performance across the board (A7 vs S800) is good enough to do pretty much everything and there is strong diminishing returns from a everyday usability POV. Sure benchmarks and a few games might see a difference, but it stops making a difference to the mainstream. I don't think anyone using a flagship 2H 2013 phone feels their phone could use more power.
I'm being reserved here in calling the above baloney. First the idea that Core 2 Duo was good enough for most users is to totally bogus. In cell phones though A7 is basically just getting to the point of passable performance. We have a very long ways to go before cell phone performance (in every way you can measure performance) is good enough.
Quote:
Advancing everyday use is what everyone is holding their breath for - and why wearables are getting so much attention even though they haven't proven anything. What's the next big step forward? It's certainly not Google Glass or the Galaxy Gear in their current iterations.
I still don't see the attraction in wearables. Frankly I'm not sure what they can come up with that would have the appeal to drive me to wear such. Watches don't appeal to me at all, and honestly I have a very negative opinion of men that wear jewelry.
Quote:

The most interesting item from the investor call was foldable displays in 2015. Conceptually I kind of like the idea of having a 5" smartphone while on the go and then be able to unfold it to a 2X size tablet display when I'm seated.
Foldable displays would indeed be interesting to say the very least. Why stop at 2X though? I do have one concern though, that is durability. The one nice thing about iPad is that it is durable.
Quote:
Seeing how thin the screens are - this could be kind of cool. Unfortunately all the prototypes shown were closed to the press.

I'm certain Apple has a few such machines available behind closed doors already. Even a fold up iPad would be huge. In fact I'd be willing to state right now that a fold up iPad would be a bigger hit than any cell phone fold up.
post #104 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
 

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't think of auto-layout in iOS 1 doesn't it?

I'd be surprised if Apple didn't think about auto-layout from the very beginning, but to do it well requires a lot of effort and time. Aside from the patent filings, Apple had first-mover advantage in 2007. Without prior knowledge of what consumers would want, Apple clearly had in mind two form factors: 3.5" iPhone and ~10" iPad, so why slow down the works by trying to solve problems you don't know you've got? IMHO no company has managed so many major technological transitions so well as Apple (including Motorola-to-PowerPC, Mac OS 9 to X, PowerPC-to-X86, and X86-to-X64), which includes bringing dedicated developers along for the ride of their lives. Apple will get everyone over this next hurdle just fine, too.

post #105 of 172
UHD resolutions, 20megapixel, and also phablets are the interest of investors seeking more and more revenue based on gimmicky features that insert a phone in to a separate market. These features do not necessarily provide better quality, usability, or functionality.
post #106 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post
 

The A7 is not half-baked nor rushed and hence your "joke" basically falls flat.

 

Yup, you totally missed the joke.  No worries though, I agree that the A7 is not half-baked or rushed.

post #107 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Au contraire, it's easy to justify. The envy of every other manufacturer is the breadth and depth of apps that iOS has. Apple can (and did) double the resolution without jeopardizing compatibility of all those apps, but any non-integral change will currently cause problems. That's where auto-layout in iOS7 will make the change to a larger display possible and profitable. It's a win for developers, too.
It is very important to understand the above, Apple has a plan! Frankly they have been guiding developers for years not to assume resolution nor screen sizes. Auto-layout is just one more piece of the puzzle that should allow Apple to release a new iPhone size and still have a large number of apps available that play nice on the new screens. Of course this doesn't solve any issues associated with apps that use bit maps.

In any event apple has been prepping the battle field here. The iOS world will now become very interesting as all sorts of devices can be released to leverage the OS.
post #108 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

 

Yup, you totally missed the joke.  No worries though, I agree that the A7 is not half-baked or rushed.

So then it's nothing like the Samsung products (Galaxy Gear) and software (S-voice and all the other S-tweedledee and S-tweedledum crap) that is mocked for that very reason which is the premise of your "joke".

post #109 of 172
You do realize you contradict yourself here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't think of auto-layout in iOS 1 doesn't it?
They where working on a break through product at the time. Even if they wanted the feature or even thought about it at the time, you can't roll everything into release #1.
Quote:
Seems a bit of a shame to me that Apple has lost the entire Phablet market plus all of the market for people who want phones > 4".  
What market? This idea that there is a huge market for these devices has been squashed by Samsung themselves as they have indicated a strong cooling in that sector. It is very much a niche market now, all the idiots that needed the latest and greatest have moved on to something else.
Quote:
It's not like Samsung has gained hugely because of this little oversight, or that many people actually buy non-Apple phones > 4";
So what has Apple really lost here?
Quote:
actually I'm pretty sure that every other manufacturer's flagship phone is <3".  And it's not like much of Apple's profits are tied up with the iPhone either..so no reason to rush...hell if we get a 4.5" screen in 2015, that's good enough for me.
Now if you get that phone how long will you be willing to carry it around with you constantly? This is the problem, the big screen has appeal no doubt, but physical realities often trumps the big screen appeal. Honestly at times I wish that my iPhone 4 was smaller.
post #110 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

Please don't ever try and run a company.

You posted completely worthless comments and then respond like this? Apple is I fact a company and is running very well indeed. If there is a significant market for the larger devices Apple will go after it when they have the right technology. Right now though there isn't a good reason to even bother going after the large cell phone market. Apples products aren't just hardware, as such they need a complete solution.

Honestly your comments make about as much sense as the analyst that insist that Apple needs to make a low end phone even though they already do that with the 4S. It just demonstrates a lack of understanding as to what Apple markets.
post #111 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

In that case Apple lost the feature phone race, the appliance race, the tablet-PC hybrid race, the mega phablets race, the tiny screen race, etc...

Completely silly his comments. Hell Apple lost the hybrid car race, the electric car race, the Adam radio race, the powered speaker race and just about every other consumer crap product race. I really have to wonder why he bothered to even post in defense of his obvious misunderstanding of reality.
post #112 of 172

Oh Samsung....


Edited by makemineamac - 11/7/13 at 12:05pm
post #113 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

Yeah, I know what you mean.  These trendy kids keep wanting to use their phones to play games, surf the web and view images; heck I've even heard that some of them watch videos!
Yep they do all of that but still don't want to carry around a pocketful of electronics. This is why there is still a market for dedicated gaming machines.
Quote:
   If only they would stick to using a phone for what its meant to be used for, talking and texting!    I think this trend is already dying, I saw a guy using his phone to talk to someone just last week!

Did you even read the damn article and note that Samsung acknowledged that the market is cooling? By the way that doesn't mean the market is going away, just that it isn't the hot sector it once was. More importantly in your case you need to realize that it was never the massive market you imagined.
post #114 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by economics View Post
 

You've repeated the same mistake from your other piece about Samsung, where you compare their QoQ growth (this quarter vs the previous quarter) against Apple's YoY growth (this quarter vs the same quarter a year ago).

 

According to IDC (http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24418013):

 

Samsung's YoY growth was 40.5%, Apple's was 25.7% and the smartphone market average was 38.8%.

 

In the other piece you quote Samsung claiming their QoQ for high end smartphones was flat, which you interpreted as a bad thing (mostly by comparison with Apple's YoY). But they launched their main flagship S4 in one quarter, and then the Note 3 in the next so flat isn't a bad thing. Apple's Quarter's generally show massive rises when they release new phones (actually they release right at the end of a quarter so you get a small bump in that quarter, 8% this year, 3% last year, followed by a big jump the next which also happens to be christmas season) but in the following 2 quarters you generally see a QoQ decline, because many buyers have sync'd their contracts with Apple's release cycle and they know a new version is coming in 6 months or less. (some data on that: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IPhone_sales_per_quarter.svg#Data_and_references).

 

So, in short YoY and QoQ are different, so don't compare them, and QoQ is highly affected by seasonality, launch windows etc. so be careful even comparing QoQ against other QoQs from the same or different organisations without taking that into account.

 

And you make the same mistake by trying to include low end piece of junk "smartphones" in your calculations despite Samsung themselves stating high end sales are flat.

 

Then again, Samsung's chairman is a twice convicted criminal so who can trust anything he says, right?

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post #115 of 172
Techno-hipsters may be clamoring for a larger-screened iPhone, but let me clue you in, out here in the real world, anybody who wrestles one of these ridiculous tombstone phones out of their pocket is a laughingstock. You may not see everybody rolling their eyes and smirking at each other behind your back, but believe me, they are. I see it every day on the bus, in stores, basically everywhere I go.

The iPhone's screen is already too big, in the sense that they increased its size by going to 16:9—a horrendous aspect ratio for a phone, or a tablet...or a computer monitor, for that matter. Absolutely the only screen that should be 16:9 is a TV. Period. The oddball 3:2 aspect ratio on the original iPhone was already too narrow. What they should do is eliminate the side bezel and maintain the same screen area with a 4:3 ratio.

I guarantee the people screaming for a bigger iPhone are some of the same ones who were squealing about the original iPhone being too big. Just pathological Apple-bashers and paid shills.
post #116 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


So? I come here to read Apple news. Not cherry picked "festures" or "editorials" about Samsung.

 

Here's a suggestion, don't read them and don't show that you have read them and continue to follow the threads by making comments.

 

You don't have to mindlessly click every link like a robot, you know, you have freedom of choice to select items of interest to you.

 

I enjoy these kind of articles, in an online world dominated by pro-Samsung/Android sentiment, whether paid for or not, it's refreshing to obtain a bit more balance, so I click on them.

 

Stuff that looks boring or uninteresting I skip over.

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post #117 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
 

It's Apple's biggest competitor, and they are driving certain market trends, such as larger screens.

 

That was driven by the need to hide a larger battery in a thinner package, influenced by Apple.

 

If I remember the Galaxy S 2 commercials correctly, Samsung crowed about it being thinner (except for the lumpy bit at the end).

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post #118 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Where exactly is Apple ahead 5 years in mobile software? I wish it were the case. I wish Apple had something that blew Google Now and Google maps out of the water.

 

64bit, the countdown began on September 10, 2013.

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post #119 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugbug View Post
 

 

I particularly like their innovative vacuum cleaners

 

Dyson doesn't, which is why they are suing Samsung for stealing their ideas.

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post #120 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


So? I come here to read Apple news. Not cherry picked "festures" or "editorials" about Samsung.

I really enjoy Samsung stories here and other related ones. I think they make sense in the Apple universe, especially things like "How does Samsung plan to compete in 64-bit processing?". 

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