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Apple scores back to back wins vs. Google's Motorola in German, ITC patent cases - Page 2

post #41 of 66
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
1. Prove it or shut up.

 

Already have court cases that prove it.

 
2. Answer the question. Talking about ethics and a soon to be trillion dollar corporation? 150 billion staying still vs supply chain abuse + low RAM and Storage + 40% margins + etc.

 

Where do you get your deluded sense of “logic”? You don’t have the first clue what you’re on about. I guess we could also murder anyone at Apple because, hey, they’re a corporation, not a person; they have no rights.

 
4. Prove it or shut up.

5. Use it or shut up.

6. Stole? Prove it or shut up.

 

Again, you’re literate. Read the court cases.

 
7. It will never happen

 

Funny that we keep seeing stories about how they could abandon Android, huh. Almost as though there’s a non-zero chance of it happening rather than “never” as you claim.

 

8. No, they just have trouble trying to make it better. 

 

Prove Apple has created a search engine. Prove they want to do so. Prove they have failed at it.

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post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

1. No court saw Google as guilty, no one sued google because of it, no Nexus or any phone running AOSP is a copy of an iPhone. That is enough! Based on this, everyone that says otherwise (as of this time) is a liar, like it or not.

 

Now, that's an idiotic statement, having in mind the content of the article you post below.

 

Both Google and Samsung tried to attack the validity all Apple patents related to multi-touch (all attacks are officially done by anonymous parties, but we are not that dumb). As the article explains, all of them have been reasserted and are actually stronger than before.

 

The reason Google/Motorola hasn't been found guilty yet is due to the fact that the multi-touch patents were being reexamined and were reasserted just recently. That means Google's and Samsung's problems are just beginning to surface.

 

Here are some other facts:

1. Capacitive sensing technology is close to two decades old.

2. Multi-touch is around since 1996 (17+ years).

 

What everyone before the iPhone did was use resistive sensing matrices and stlyi to solve the issues with precision.

 

What Apple's engineers did was use two old technologies, found solutions to problems such as touch precision (The Steve Jobs patent), multi-finger detection without using expensive hardware, etc. and built a great product. That was the first iPhone.

 

What Google did was simply copy those engineering solutions. Then tried to invalidate the related patents, but failed.

 

At the same time, I just want to point out that Google's "map-reduce" open source implementation (available to the public) has nothing to do with their internal implementation used by the search engine. Now, the map-reduce is an algorithm widely used by NoSQL databases. It is not a search engine by itself. By making it public, Google will not in any way endanger their search engine. But, they don't do that.

 

So, Google's "embrace" of open source is only to they benefit - use the Linux kernel and libraries for free, all the available tools for free (ripped of Java as well). Pay Mozilla money so Google Search is default, then present it as support for the Open Source Community.

 

They tried to pull similar (to Android) trick with the VP8 codec against H.264I've personally read the licensing fees for the H.264 and they cover quantities (of devices or users) above 100,000. If you sell 100,000 devices, or have a service that streams to 100,000 users, that's an actual business, making real money. Servers, electricity and staff are not free. So, it seems Google wanted to decrease their costs related to the Youtube service since it has tens of millions of users = a few million in fees.

 

So, yes, Google is currently the most evil technology company out there.

post #43 of 66

"What is Google's strenght? Services."

 

Plus snooping, recording, storing, and monetizing personal user data without being illegal (most of the time).

 

Google sells user data to its customers, the ad agencies.

 

(And a world without ads everywhere trumps a world with ads everywhere. There's a reason signage on highways is regulated.)

post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

1. Prove it or shut up.

2. Answer the question. Talking about ethics and a soon to be trillion dollar corporation? 150 billion staying still vs supply chain abuse + low RAM and Storage + 40% margins + etc.

 

(BTW, i don't have any problem with that. Don't like it? don't buy it. I only used that to show you delusional you are. Seeing Apple as an "honest person". You must be drunk)

 

3. Proof that you are just some old, irrelant, sad, pathetic 30.000 poster with nothing to add to any discussion.

 

4. Prove it or shut up.

 

5. Use it or shut up.

 

6. Stole? Prove it or shut up.

 

7. It will never happen, they will grow and grow and you will just be there: Posting about it and being sad.

 

8. No, they just have trouble trying to make it better. Same situations as Aperture Vs Photoshop, Google docs Vs web iWork, FCP Vs whatever is used, Logic VS whatever is used.

 

See? You are delusional. 

Hey. This one gets the Post of the Year Award. Speech. Speech.

post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

I do not want that.

First of all I do not see vanilla Android as a copy. It's a clear and different alternative now, at least for everyone with at least one active brain cell. I can afford a smartphone only because of Google. A billion people will relate to this.

Honestly, I hope Apple loses big time and the fact that you want all devices to become blackberries again just shows how limited most posters are.

Would you be happy if Apple had more 50 billion on the bank to feed shareholders that don't even know what Apple does, how they think, what is their goal? Is there anything that Apple isn't doing because they do not have enough money? Did Google behave bad because of Android? No.

Android is here to stay and have 80% Market share worldwide. It was a great move and it is a fantastic product. The only thing wrong with it are OEMs like Samsung. No one is saying that iOS and the iPhone aren't the best.

What a bunch.... Deal with it.

So then I'm sure you'll be happy with the reasonable alternative...Apple licenses out these technologies they own (like they already do to players like MS) to Google and your bargain Android phones get a little more expensive. In fact, they return to the real price they should have been all along. That's what happens when you heavily borrow others technology to get a jump start on your goal of worldwide market share dominance. But do you really think Apple cares about the money even? Sure they want to secure their business and be compensated fairly but what they're really doing is sending a message to Samsung and a google and all those would be thieves to back off.
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

That's an ignorant statement.

Google built an amazing alternative based on the iPhone. Google did not copy Apple just like Apple did not copy adobe with aperture or google docs with the new web iWork.

And even if Google copied Apple icon to icon, feature to feature, what is your problem? Apple isn't a person. Google isn't a person. Both have billions of dollars and one brings the best in the other.

In fact I believe (and evidence, logic and courts back me up) that:
a) Android isn't a copy.
b) Android is fantastic, even if iOS is just better;
c) Google did the right thing for a variaty of reasons. Could you imagine if Google was forced out of iOS without Android as an alternative?

My only true problem:

Why isn't Apple doing the same on the search engine business? WTF is wrong with them? They have more talent than Google (the only company that has more talent than google), but way less corage...

Android is a copy. If MS can build a different OS, why couldn't Google? Google took the easy way and stole everything.
post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

1.Already have court cases that prove it.

 

2.Where do you get your deluded sense of “logic”? You don’t have the first clue what you’re on about. I guess we could also murder anyone at Apple because, hey, they’re a corporation, not a person; they have no rights.

 

1.Again, you’re literate. Read the court cases.

 

3.Funny that we keep seeing stories about how they could abandon Android, huh. Almost as though there’s a non-zero chance of it happening rather than “never” as you claim.

 

4.Prove Apple has created a search engine. Prove they want to do so. Prove they have failed at it.

I don't have time to answer to everyone anymore, especially to people that "don't want the truth" because "truth" will beat their "fantasy world" up.

 

1. There are 0 court cases against Android itself. 0, nada. Apple knows that they have no case so they don't even dare to sue Google BASED ON ANDROID. Even the rockstar consortium targets Google on a different sector, the one you ironically mentioned as the only one that is legit: Search and ads.

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/patent-war-goes-nuclear-microsoft-apple-owned-rockstar-sues-google/

 

Quote:
 The complaint against Google involves six patents, all from the same patent "family." They're all titled "associative search engine" and list Richard Skillen and Prescott Livermore as inventors. The patents describe "an advertisement machine which provides advertisements to a user searching for desired information within a data network."

 

Of course Samsung (maybe other OEMs too) copies, but that has nothing to do with the Android that started what we have today. It only matters to Samsung and their touchwiz.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthof/2012/08/27/five-reasons-apple-may-not-dare-to-sue-google/

 

About Java: Oracle lost, they were humilliated and rightfully so. If an infraction was found, it was something minor, irrelevant.

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/05/oracle-v-google-jury-foreman-reveals-oracle-wasnt-even-close/

Proof that you are wrong and ignorant on subject 1 : check.

 

2. What I meant is that the fact that you care and want a company to charge 40 to 50% margins when they have 150 billion and in the words of their CEO: "have more than enough to operate, let's give money to shareholders" is enough for people to see you as "not-normal" "not-rational" kind of guy. Apple has no feelings, it is not a person. It wouldn't matter if they have 1 dollar or 1 trillion as long as they have enough to operate.

 

If they were "good", they would lower their margins.

 

3. That's it: stories. Nothing more to say. Android is dominant and awesome.

 

4. They want to strike Google, they use search (spotlight, for example), they are trying to erase Google from default on iOS, they did the same thing against adobe (aperture) avid (FCP) and Microsoft (iWork), they made iTunes on other plataforms and iWork on Web (to fight google and iTunes on offered on other plataforms), heck they made the iPhone because they didn't want Motorola in their core business. Search is core business. They did Maps. Is it proof? No.

post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Android is a copy. If MS can build a different OS, why couldn't Google? Google took the easy way and stole everything.

Proof.

post #49 of 66
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
30 000 posts

 

You won’t be referencing this again. Final warning.

 

1. 

 

Totally wrong, but hey, keep the dream alive.

 
2. 

 

We’re not talking about margins.

We’re not talking about profit.

We’re not talking about cash.

We’re not talking about money owned by any corporation.

We’re not talking about corporations.

We’re not talking about operating cost.

We’re not talking about what one whining fool thinks is “right” or “good” regarding margins, profit, or anything else.

 

We’re talking about intellectual property.

We’re talking about the theft of intellectual property.

We’re talking about protecting intellectual property.

We’re talking about the right to prevent others from using your intellectual property.

 

You really do not have the first clue what we’re discussing. Stop posting until you learn what we’re discussing.

 

Android is dominant and awesome.

 

Says no review, ever, nor any use stats, ever, nor any metric on the market, ever.

 
They want to strike Google, they use search
 

 

Except no, that is not only not the only way to strike at Google, it also isn’t the way they have been striking at Google.

 
…they are trying to erase Google from default on iOS, they did the same thing against adobe (aperture) avid (FCP) and Microsoft (iWork), they made iTunes on other platforms and iWork on Web (to fight google and iTunes on offered on other plataforms), 

 

At no time has an Adobe product been default on an Apple product.

At no time has an Avid product been default on an Apple product.

At no time has Microsoft Office been default on an Apple product.

 
…heck they made the iPhone because they didn’t want Motorola in their core business. 

 

[citation needed]

 
They did Maps. Is it proof? No.

 

Thanks for disproving your entire argument here. Not sure why you’d waste time writing it out if you were going to up and do it, then.

 
But you can fucking bet that it makes more sense and has more logic than your 30 000 posts about garbage and "iPhone 6" and "no ipad mini". 

 

Again, final warning.

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post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post

1.So then I'm sure you'll be happy with the reasonable alternative...Apple licenses out these technologies they own (like they already do to players like MS) to Google and your bargain Android phones get a little more expensive. In fact, they return to the real price they should have been all along.2 That's what happens when you heavily borrow others technology to get a jump start on your goal of worldwide market share dominance. 3.But do you really think Apple cares about the money even? Sure they want to secure their business and be compensated fairly but what they're really doing is sending a message to Samsung and a google and all those would be thieves to back off.

1. Of course I wouldn't mind and that would be fair.

 

2. But who said that? Nexus phones never were like iPhones. AOSP is nothing like the iPhone. and more importantly: Until now, Google is only guilty of quickly creating a fantastic plataform that is writing history and bringing smartphones to billions of users. Something Apple never cared about. And that goes to number 3:

 

3. Of course Apple only cares about money. It's their only motivation. They have 150 billion dollars and 10 billion net profit each quarter. The iPhone5s already has 40 to 60% margins. If it was about "the product" and "people" they would lower those margins.

 

But it isn't. As far as Apple is concerned: **** you 5.5 billion people. Let's focus on money.

 

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, but the fact is:

While Apple is the best company in the world, iOS is stronger because of Android (inspiration for features, the need to compete, devs and publishers that shumped on the bandwagon sooner because they couldn't ignore the iOS + Android combo, etc)  and I have a smartphone because of Google's fantastic business decisions.

 

The US is the country of fat people, war machines and oil corporations while buying the outside talent. Everyone can afford an iPhone. You guys can't understand. The iPhone likely has less than 3% market share here. Without Android? most likely would have 1% because people wouldn't jump ship from other plataforms they trusted.

post #51 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

So this crap is supposed to be your answer? How pathetic.

 

I show evidence, I argument, and it is a "dream"??

 

Android is great...

 

Says no review? No user?

 

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5063490/android-4-4-kit-kat-review

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5062724/google-nexus-5-review

post #52 of 66
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

3. Of course Apple only cares about money. It's their only motivation.

 

[citation needed]

 

As far as Apple is concerned: **** you 5.5 billion people.

 

Hey, you finally get it! Apple DOESN’T GIVE A FLYING FRICK ABOUT NINE TENTHS OF THE MARKET. They’re not going to make cheap Schmidt just to sell phones. If you don’t like it, learn about the concept of “saving your money” so that you can get an iPhone.

 
Everyone can afford an iPhone.

 

News flash, Jethro Tull: I can’t afford an iPhone. Guess where I live.

 
You guys can't understand.

 

You know what I can’t understand? How third generation welfare families have given all of their children iPhones while I can’t afford one for myself. You know what I can’t understand? Why telecoms are allowed to discriminate and force people to buy data plans they will never use, do not need, and do not want simply because of the model of device they purchase. You know what I can’t understand? That people are mystified when they see the price of the iPhone compared to the reviews. You want quality, you pay for it. People buying products in every single other industry on the face of the planet seem to comprehend this. But when it comes to a cell phone, HOLY CRAP WHY IS IT SO MUCH I WANT GOOD EXPERIENCE FOR FREE THIS IS UNFAIR I DESERVE IT. You don’t buy a Thompson grapefruit for $1.00 and expect it to taste the same as a ruby red for $1.75.

 
…most likely would have 1% because people wouldn’t jump ship from other plataforms they trusted. 

 

[citation needed]

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post #53 of 66

"Guess what... Inspired? Yes. Copy?"

 

Teacher: I gave you an F because I saw you copying your answer from Steve's paper!

 

Perdomartins: I wasn't copying his answer, I was only getting inspired by it.

post #54 of 66
I wasn't saying Apple didn't care about money. I'm referring to these court cases. They're not about money. Of course every company is about money the same way sharks are about swimming and eating. They must do it to survive. Google cares about money just as much. They're just not as good at raking it in I suppose.

Competition's good but most smartphones in the world aren't even competing against iPhone even though all of their core technology is stealing iPhones tech.

Think about it. What really drives innovation? High end smartphones that raise the bar each release and create new features and experiences for users? Or low end phones that "borrow" the same technology and deliver it to many people for less money? One cannot happen without the other one doing it first so I'll let you decide which is the more necessa one in the technological age. Progress in technology isn't about fairness and it's not socialism. Neither is capitalism.
post #55 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Proof.

Liar.

Android before iPhone, android after iPhone.
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



2.The fact that people like you exist is the problem. “IP theft is okay” = ten thousand years of darkness.
3.Be quiet.
4.No, “evidence”, “logic”, and “courts” say the exact opposite.
5.Same.

6.“Google stole, and this was the right thing to do” what is WRONG with you people?

7.Yes. I can. It’s a utopian fantasy of mine, and one that I still hope comes to pass in the future.

You realize that Google wouldn’t have been forced out if they hadn’t been worthless effing WHORES and stolen the OS, right?
8.They have principles? Scruples? A sense of morality? Honor? Dignity? Respect for the work Google hasn’t stolen?
1. Prove it or shut up.
2. Answer the question. Talking about ethics and a soon to be trillion dollar corporation? 150 billion staying still vs supply chain abuse + low RAM and Storage + 40% margins + etc.

(BTW, i don't have any problem with that. Don't like it? don't buy it. I only used that to show you delusional you are. Seeing Apple as an "honest person". You must be drunk)

3. Proof that you are just some old, irrelant, sad, pathetic 30.000 poster with nothing to add to any discussion.

4. Prove it or shut up.

5. Use it or shut up.

6. Stole? Prove it or shut up.

7. It will never happen, they will grow and grow and you will just be there: Posting about it and being sad.

8. No, they just have trouble trying to make it better. Same situations as Aperture Vs Photoshop, Google docs Vs web iWork, FCP Vs whatever is used, Logic VS whatever is used.

See? You are delusional. 

Whoa. Relax, man. Missing your meds?
post #57 of 66
Two questions for the biggest liar in this thread, pedromartins:

- Why did Google steal Microsoft IP and put it in Android and then give it away for free when they had no legal right to use it?
- Why did Google steal IP belonging to MPEG-LA (the companies they represent) and put it in VP8 and then give it away for free?

You say Google doesn't steal? I say you're a liar. And a hypocrite since you're running around calling everyone else liars.

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post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Android before iPhone, android after iPhone.
Apple before Xerox, Apple after xerox. Same thing. Inspiration, not copy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Whoa. Relax, man. Missing your meds?
No, just disappointed by ignorant users (most of them on the USA, most of AI posters) that have no idead about what goes on outside Apple ecosystem and outside of the US.

One has to be really fucking dumb to still have the nerve to call vanilla Android a copy of iOS. Steve was really fucking dumb once in a while, but he compensated that by having the talent to find the talent (Cook, Ive, phil, craig, etc).

Most posters here aren't like that. I joined this forum before I bought my first Mac, and came here because I love my Macbook Air and I thought that it was a better way to help, get help and discuss tech, because I thought that Mac users always inform themselves before commiting to the ecosystem (like me).

But guess what, ALMOST nothing more than a bunch of ignorant users (especially about non-things Apple, so even their purchases weren't that informed, it was just because of the logo) that think that because they can't even write iWork instead of iWorkS (to show their veteran "rank") they have some sort of legitimacy to vomit crap post after post (30 000x).

-Shouldn't the courts decide who is guilty?
A sentence later:
-Google copied!
or
-No one likes android;
- ANdroid was found to be infringing apple patents;
-No one likes android devices;
-etc.

One has to be really fucking dumb and a liar to post this stuff. Guess what, I'm done.

Sure, but you can make your points without having to get so bent out of shape? There's really no need for all this frothing at the mouth. (I'll ignore the rant about Americans and AI users).
post #59 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Apple before Xerox, Apple after xerox. Same thing. Inspiration, not copy.

...
One has to be really fucking dumb and a liar to post this stuff. Guess what, I'm done.

Ding dong, the witch is gone.

Btw, the difference is Apple gave Xerox shares in exchange for access to PARC.
post #60 of 66
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
... Google was asking for 12 times the usual royalty rate.

 

Typical.  No adult supervision.

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post #61 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

130 € s3 mini Vs 350 € 4s on the same circunstances. Is touchwiz terrible? I think so, but not cyanogenmod+crossbreader. Android is a fantastic plataform that will keep 80 % Market share for years and years. Everybody wins. Me, you, Apple, Google. OEMs and RIM or Microsoft, on the other hand.... and that's great.

 

You do know that if Samsung detects an unauthorised binary from unlocking the boot loader , they void your warranty, well in Australia anyway.

 

The iPhone 4S is better than the S3 Mini in many ways

 

Do you think Samsung count sales toward the pending 100,000,000 Galaxy S phones sold?

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post #62 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

Why isn't Apple doing the same on the search engine business? WTF is wrong with them? They have more talent than Google (the only company that has more talent than google), but way less corage...

 

They are, unified search is one of the Apple patents stolen by Android, as was found in various courts of law.

 

Google = web search.

 

Apple = everything in your hand search.

 

The only thing Google is really good at is selling ads to suckers who believe their nonsense and are drawn to their honeypots.

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post #63 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Prove Apple has created a search engine. Prove they want to do so. Prove they have failed at it.

 

Why that would take the ingenuity of SHERLOCK Holmes.

 

;)

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post #64 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Why that would take the ingenuity of SHERLOCK Holmes.

 

;)

Before Sherlock there was also eWorld by Apple which had a very rudimentary search I believe. It was killed off by the popularity of AOL. My how times have changed. 

 

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

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post #65 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

That's an ignorant statement.

 

Google built an amazing alternative based on the iPhone. Google did not copy Apple just like Apple did not copy adobe with aperture or google docs with the new web iWork.

 

And even if Google copied Apple icon to icon, feature to feature, what is your problem? Apple isn't a person. Google isn't a person. Both have billions of dollars and one brings the best in the other.

 

In fact I believe (and evidence, logic and courts back me up) that:

a) Android isn't a copy.

b) Android is fantastic, even if iOS is just better;

c) Google did the right thing for a variaty of reasons. Could you imagine if Google was forced out of iOS without Android as an alternative?

 

My only true problem:

 

Why isn't Apple doing the same on the search engine business? WTF is wrong with them? They have more talent than Google (the only company that has more talent than google), but way less corage...

 

 

Google the company are a pack of thieves, 12.5 billion spent on Motorola for nothing couldn't have happen to a more deserving company.

post #66 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

If I spend a hundred million dollars developing a product and figuring out how it will best work, I want to 1) recoup my investment, 2) make a nice profit, and 3) create a market for my product. Once my product is released, it costs a lot less for a competitor to manufacturer my product.  It does not have to do nearly the same amount of research thereby saving millions of dollars. This in turn allows it to bring a product to market for less than my own. That is essentially what Google has done. It took without permission Java and used IOS as a model to build its own product. More importantly, Google has a history of just taking innovative ideas and pushing out small competitors. That type of behaviour kills innovations. Eventually people like you who like cool products, will not have them because who wants to spend big dollars to develop a product to just allow your competitors to being it to market cheaper by copying you? Moreover, Apple's approach is more inclusive. With its iPhone it did not elect to build the entirety of its services, it included Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, Nuance, Tom Tom, Yelp,  Facebook, and the list goes on. Google instead, just takes the concepts those other companies have developed and tries to copy the products. 


Moreover, iOS is more than just the way it looks. It is also the way it behaves. Patents cover both. 

Truly fantastic post! Excellent points, all around.
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  • Apple scores back to back wins vs. Google's Motorola in German, ITC patent cases
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