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Microsoft Surface ad fails to Excel at math, according to Apple's Numbers - Page 2

post #41 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceldavies View Post

Hmmm... Doesn't Excel recalculate when you finish editing a cell? And isn't the cell containing $500 highlighted for editing (& might it not have contained $0 prior to editing)? Poor art direction, but nothing wrong with the operation of the spreadsheet. But don't let that spoil your fun!

 

There sure are a lot of people with absolutely no sense of humor or irony jumping to Microsoft's defense on this one. So you signed up just to make public that you don't get it at all?

post #42 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapi View Post

Wow. This is worthy of an article? This is shameful. Let MS or Google and Apple fight it out accordingly but this is cheap. Office is better than anything Apple has EVER put out, this no one can argue. They're just using it as feature which is smart. The same way Apple uses their ecosystem to sell iStuff. You guys can't be such fanboys not to appreciate something else other than Apples stuff. The surface is actually very nice, I prefer the iPad of course but I have both. He surface is better at some things but that's life, no device is perfect. I know this is AI but have some balls to appreciate another product. So what if the calculation is off? Would anyone in their right mind use numbers over excel? Never. It was maybe a typo, who knows? It is idiotic to write an article about this. Shameful.

You need to loosen up a little - he's just poking fun at MS, which is a long-standing and honorable tradition even amongst those of us who use their products all the time.  I would mention that "so what if the calculation is off" is a somewhat ironic comment when made in regard to a spreadsheet advertisement though.

Ease up on him.

He probably works for Microsoft. Their Communications division. He's clearly panicked.
post #43 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapi View Post

Wow. This is worthy of an article? This is shameful.

What's idiotic is that this poster wasted a big paragraph (and everyone's time) on something that is "shameful." Can you spell "dork?"
post #44 of 224
BRILLIANT!!!
post #45 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceldavies View Post

Hmmm... Doesn't Excel recalculate when you finish editing a cell? And isn't the cell containing $500 highlighted for editing (& might it not have contained $0 prior to editing)? Poor art direction, but nothing wrong with the operation of the spreadsheet. But don't let that spoil your fun!

This could be true, as the pie chart look like it is based upon a different value. However, why is there nothing in the contents bar???
Edited by JONOROM - 11/10/13 at 7:37am

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post #46 of 224
Edward Tufte would not be pleased with that ungodly aweful 3-D pie chart!
post #47 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by OcelotWreak View Post

Edward Tufte would not be pleased with that ungodly aweful 3-D pie chart!
Nor Stephen Few. 3D pie charts should not exist as an option for anyone to chose.
post #48 of 224
Windows math. Usually Microsoft likes to inflate their numbers, so they don't come out short.

Actually, whoever plugged in those numbers obviously didn't hit Enter to get the results of that particular cell to show up in the total. Not much of a big deal worth mentioning. Excel is an awesome spreadsheet application.
post #49 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Nor Stephen Few. 3D pie charts should not exist as an option for anyone to chose.

 Laugh it all you want, Steve Jobs did use 3D pie charts, and they can be artfully made too.

post #50 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Windows math. Usually Microsoft likes to inflate their numbers, so they don't come out short.

Actually, whoever plugged in those numbers obviously didn't hit Enter to get the results of that particular cell to show up in the total. Not much of a big deal worth mentioning. Excel is an awesome spreadsheet application.

 

That's clearly not true, because the number is displayed in the pie chart.

post #51 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFlash View Post

The Numbers example did a great job of adding the column of numbers, but what's with the chart? It is quite lovely, all 3D and all. However, it has TWO slices labeled "Car" and NO slices labeled "Surf Rentals". Does Numbers have trouble with transposition of the content of a spreadsheet to a chart?

 

Your sentence should have ended as:   NO slices labeled "Surf Rentals."

(The period goes inside the quotes).

Therefore, I must completely dismiss and ignore your posting.

You know, because you want to ignore this article criticizing Excel, as he mistyped one of the labels.  That makes his point completely moot.

post #52 of 224
Best article of the week, thanks 1smile.gif
post #53 of 224

Numbers has a shocking bug whereby it won't allow you to reference the same cell twice in a formula.  Absolutely pitiful.  There is a work around but it shouldn't be necessary.

 

As for Pages, it too has a stupid bug that just shouldn't be there.  It can't differentiate a character with an intrinsic trailing or leading space from the version of the character without, so if you want to search for all instances of  " and replace it " without the preceding space it treats them as the same character, even though they aren't.

 

These two bugs are so basic I think Microsoft isn't far wrong in their assessment.

post #54 of 224

According to your example it looks like both applications make mistakes.

post #55 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 

Numbers has a shocking bug whereby it won't allow you to reference the same cell twice in a formula.  Absolutely pitiful.  There is a work around but it shouldn't be necessary.

 

 

Yea, I bump into that one a lot.  Won't let me click on a cell twice while entering a formula.  I have to manually type in the cell reference.  This does seem like something that should have easily been fixed.  I also noticed that in the new version that just came out, the cell reference is a mixture of the the labels for row and column headings, instead of just, say "C2".  I find this a real pain when trying to proofread some cells to find a syntax error in a formula.

post #56 of 224
hahaha to "The only explanation for Excel's big billboard bug blunder is that perhaps Office is stuck writing off most of the cost of the Surface in its calculations, after Microsoft was similarly forced to erase $900,000,000 of its earnings after Surface tablets failed to sell last year." Very funny
post #57 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

 Laugh it all you want, Steve Jobs did use 3D pie charts, and they can be artfully made too.
Yeah well Steve Jobs didn't always get things right.
post #58 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 

Numbers has a shocking bug whereby it won't allow you to reference the same cell twice in a formula.  Absolutely pitiful.  There is a work around but it shouldn't be necessary.

 

As for Pages, it too has a stupid bug that just shouldn't be there.  It can't differentiate a character with an intrinsic trailing or leading space from the version of the character without, so if you want to search for all instances of  " and replace it " without the preceding space it treats them as the same character, even though they aren't.

 

These two bugs are so basic I think Microsoft isn't far wrong in their assessment.

 

Which version of Numbers are you running?  I've never seen that bug.

 

Just checked the old and new Pages too, and they don't behave as you describe either - they resolve leading and trailing spaces just fine in the search and replace functions.


Edited by muppetry - 11/10/13 at 8:25am
post #59 of 224
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Yeah well Steve Jobs didn't always get things right.

 

And somehow, here, you’re “right”, huh.

post #60 of 224

DED article shows a massive issue with numbers and the errors are present in all versions from "iPhone, a Macintosh, or even the beta version of iWork for iCloud accessible via a web browser".

 

Here are a list of errors

1. List Car twice in pie chart

2. Omits Surf Rentals

3. Car percentage wrong (yellow slice)

4. Food percentage wrong (orange slice)

5. Drive Rentals percentage wrong (red slice)

6. Car (again. assume to be Surf rentals) percentage wrong  (purple slice)

7. Total of pie chart is 99%. 

 

Thanks DED for showing massive issues with numbers and why Office is still king.

post #61 of 224
I'm a big fan of DED, but the humor would be enhanced if he hadn't somehow ended up with all of the Numbers graphs he showed being wrong. None of them show seven differently labeled items, as they should.

Edit: This has now been corrected, but DED should acknowledge that his figures have been corrected. Journalism!
Edited by NormM - 11/10/13 at 11:11am
post #62 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

Which version of Numbers are you running?  I've never seen that bug.

 

Just checked the old and new Pages too, and they don't behave as you describe either - they resolve leading and trailing spaces just fine in the search and replace functions.

 

I can't speak for the Pages error he was referencing, but the Numbers one I have dealt with.  Was going to give you a couple steps to take to replicate the problem, but now I can't.  Seems the new version (3) of Numbers has fixed this.  Cool.

post #63 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
 

DED article shows a massive issue with numbers and the errors are present in all versions from "iPhone, a Macintosh, or even the beta version of iWork for iCloud accessible via a web browser".

 

Here are a list of errors

1. List Car twice in pie chart

2. Omits Surf Rentals

3. Car percentage wrong (yellow slice)

4. Food percentage wrong (orange slice)

5. Drive Rentals percentage wrong (red slice)

6. Car (again. assume to be Surf rentals) percentage wrong  (purple slice)

7. Total of pie chart is 99%. 

 

Thanks DED for showing massive issues with numbers and why Office is still king.

 

Just curious - which percentages would you change to make the total add up to 100%?

post #64 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

I'm a big fan of DED, but the humor would be enhanced if he hadn't somehow ended up with all of the Numbers graphs he showed being wrong. None of them show seven differently labeled items, as they should.

It's a DED feature so it has the same amount of errors normally. 

post #65 of 224
I can't help it, I love the DED hit pieces. Wonderful 1smile.gif
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post #66 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tknull View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

Which version of Numbers are you running?  I've never seen that bug.

 

Just checked the old and new Pages too, and they don't behave as you describe either - they resolve leading and trailing spaces just fine in the search and replace functions.

 

I can't speak for the Pages error he was referencing, but the Numbers one I have dealt with.  Was going to give you a couple steps to take to replicate the problem, but now I can't.  Seems the new version (3) of Numbers has fixed this.  Cool.

 

I figured it out - it's if you click on cells to add their reference rather than just writing out the formula - and it has been fixed in the new version.

post #67 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

I figured it out - it's if you click on cells to add their reference rather than just writing out the formula - and it has been fixed in the new version.

 

Indeed.  And I've been using the new version for a bit now, and kept writing it out manually, assuming you still had to.  So i'm glad I read this thread, and went back to check it, or who knows how long it would have taken me to figure out its been fixed. 

post #68 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Don’t let the fact that this isn’t an excuse spoil yours, hit and run.


hit and run? Wow, Apple are safe with you at their hip. Brilliant contribution, keep it up.

post #69 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

Which version of Numbers are you running?  I've never seen that bug.

 

Just checked the old and new Pages too, and they don't behave as you describe either - they resolve leading and trailing spaces just fine in the search and replace functions.


2.2

 

Pages:  Whops! - sorry, mea culpa.  I miss-remembered the bug - it wasn't to do with leading and trailing space versions of punctuation characters, it was an inability to differentiate between the opening and closing variants of quotation marks such as “ ” and ‘ ’.  To Pages 4.2 they are the same character.

post #70 of 224
Originally Posted by bruceldavies View Post
hit and run? Wow, Apple are safe with you at their hip. Brilliant contribution, keep it up.

 

Trolls are known for their hilarious irony.

post #71 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

There sure are a lot of people with absolutely no sense of humor or irony jumping to Microsoft's defense on this one. So you signed up just to make public that you don't get it at all?

 

Sure got me there - Microsoft defender to the max here, brilliantly spotted. I did sign up because I felt the need to comment. Sorry for that. Glad there's no irony in falsely attributing an error and making a bigger one in the process. My bad. Right, been lovely talking with you, have to get back to defending Microsoft. Bye now.

post #72 of 224
Wow, those Apple pie charts are ALL WRONG. Not just the double "Car" slices in lieu of "Surf Rentals", but also many of its other representations. "Food" is clearly the third largest expenditure on the spreadsheet, but it's mislabeled "Car" on the pie chart. "Dive Rentals" should be one of the two 5% slices, but it's instead the red 2% slice, which is what Surf Rentals should have been.

Has anyone tried re-creating the Microsoft spreadsheet on an actual Surface 2? It may or may not have been an artist's error (intentional or otherwise) in the production of the billboard advert. But the Apple pie charts are real. Scary, the new iWork seems buggy and incomplete.
post #73 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Nor Stephen Few. 3D pie charts should not exist as an option for anyone to chose.

 Laugh it all you want, Steve Jobs did use 3D pie charts, and they can be artfully made too.

Tufte and Few were no Jobs.

 

Overrated fellows, imho.

post #74 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post


This could be true, as the pie chart look like it is based upon a different value. However, why is there nothing in the contents bar???


Good point. As I see it, the pie chart reflects a value against 'car' which doesn't hold with my theory that the pre-edit value was $0. Makes me think they really made a mess of composite artwork and nobody bothered to proof - heck of an own goal!

 

(appalling typo edited in attempt to save blushes while criticising others! Doh!!)


Edited by bruceldavies - 11/10/13 at 9:17am
post #75 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMoebius View Post

I noticed in the ad the cell with 500 is still highlighted. If this means that the user entered the 500 without committing the change (hitting enter), the value would not have been counted in the total. I couldn't see if there was an active cursor in the field, but if there was, that would be the clincher. If there wasn't, it could just mean that the software that made the screen shot did not include the cursor in it.

if they had not yet hit enter then the "500" would be on the left side of the input box, which is where it is when you type it but before hitting enter. having it on the right side of the input box indicates they have hit enter. also, it has the "$" next to it, indicating that formatting has been applied, which only happens after hitting enter.
post #76 of 224
DanielSW <— has no sense of humor, no sense of irony. Where is his faux outrage over the Ballmeresque comments about Apple's iWork suit? Or, does it only work when Microsoft is skewering?
Edited by macaholic_1948 - 11/10/13 at 9:21am
post #77 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee493 View Post

Wow, those Apple pie charts are ALL WRONG. Not just the double "Car" slices in lieu of "Surf Rentals", but also many of its other representations. "Food" is clearly the third largest expenditure on the spreadsheet, but it's mislabeled "Car" on the pie chart. "Dive Rentals" should be one of the two 5% slices, but it's instead the red 2% slice, which is what Surf Rentals should have been.

Has anyone tried re-creating the Microsoft spreadsheet on an actual Surface 2? It may or may not have been an artist's error (intentional or otherwise) in the production of the billboard advert. But the Apple pie charts are real. Scary, the new iWork seems buggy and incomplete.

 

I think you are missing the point.  No one is actually suggesting that either Excel or the Surface cannot accurately perform the calculations - just that it is somewhat amusing for a spreadsheet advertisement to show calculation errors, and probably something that one might expect to get fixed in proof reading.

post #78 of 224

Nice. Microsoft's payees are out in full force today. Good morning, guys/gals. More clicks for AI! :)

 

Just so you -- and the other 'surf-rental' nitpickers -- know, DED does not work for Apple's advertising agency. And, Apple did not approve this.

post #79 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by GerdC View Post

Excel might fail to add numbers in an ad.

But Apples Numbers 3 fails to add numbers in reality on your computer and your iPad (both versions have the same bug).

Details and an example file are in this blog article: http://www.gerdcastan.de/en/content/numbers-3-cell-bug

I love Microsoft bashing, too (for other reasons than Excel). But in this case...

Gerd
Yeah, but Apple doesn't feature the bug in an ad for itself.
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post #80 of 224
What I love about this site is how deep and intelligent analyses are.
But, sometimes it is so ridiculously biased that I, a faithful apple client, feel very disappointed and upset.
Is this a joke? Sorry, different sense of humor.
Let's be honest, Excel is the de facto standard for spreadsheet calculations.
Of course it can calulate, and it is far more powerful than apple numbers.

The explanation?
The $500 cell is highlighted in the picture. Which is the amount by which the total amount is off.
Answer... it could have been typed into the cell and not confirmed yet by pressing ENTER.

No bug there.
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