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Microsoft Surface ad fails to Excel at math, according to Apple's Numbers - Page 3

post #81 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceldavies View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post


This could be true, as the pie chart look like it is based upon a different value. However, why is there nothing in the contents bar???


Good point. As I see it, the pie chart reflects a value against 'car' which doesn't with hold my theory that the pre-edit value was $0. Makes me think they really made a mess of composite artwork and nobody bothered to proof - heck of an own goal!

 

That does appear to be exactly what happened. DED making equivalent errors in his article is simply careless; Microsoft allowing them in their own spreadsheet commercial is far more amusing.

post #82 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

That does appear to be exactly what happened. DED making equivalent errors in his article is simply careless; Microsoft allowing them in their own spreadsheet commercial is far more amusing.


Fair do's. :)

post #83 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by defconi View Post

What I love about this site is how deep and intelligent analyses are.
But, sometimes it is so ridiculously biased that I, a faithful apple client, feel very disappointed and upset.
Is this a joke? Sorry, different sense of humor.
Let's be honest, Excel is the de facto standard for spreadsheet calculations.
Of course it can calulate, and it is far more powerful than apple numbers.

The explanation?
The $500 cell is highlighted in the picture. Which is the amount by which the total amount is off.
Answer... it could have been typed into the cell and not confirmed yet by pressing ENTER.

No bug there.

 

If you had bothered even to skim through the comments before posting you would have seen numerous reasons why that is not a possible explanation.

post #84 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
 

DED article shows a massive issue with numbers and the errors are present in all versions from "iPhone, a Macintosh, or even the beta version of iWork for iCloud accessible via a web browser".

 

Here are a list of errors

1. List Car twice in pie chart

2. Omits Surf Rentals

3. Car percentage wrong (yellow slice)

4. Food percentage wrong (orange slice)

5. Drive Rentals percentage wrong (red slice)

6. Car (again. assume to be Surf rentals) percentage wrong  (purple slice)

7. Total of pie chart is 99%. 

 

Thanks DED for showing massive issues with numbers and why Office is still king.

It is just you---

 

Daniel updated the charts so either you didn't clear your cache or you're just reading other postings. I checked and all the colors are correct too. The 99% is the typical roundoff error caused when only showing rounded off percentages. This happens all the time. Create the table yourself and you'll see. I have no idea why they didn't work the first time.

 

As for Office being the king, you're right. It used to be the king of macro viruses and still is the king of having way too many options that are extremely difficult to find and 99.999% of users don't need anyway (no, I'm not going to tell you which ones). As far as Excel being all that great, tell me why people have to write all sorts of insane macros just to get the application to do what they want it to do. Shouldn't the king of all spreadsheet applications already have those features? Or are they using the Excel to do something a database does better? Just like Word being used to create publications.

 

You are permitted your opinion, just like I am, but I'm glad I retired and don't have to put up with all the "help" Microsoft kept giving me when using Office (that I didn't ask for and had to regularly correct).

post #85 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Nice. Microsoft's payees are out in full force today. Good morning, guys/gals. More clicks for AI! :)

 

Just so you -- and the other 'surf-rental' nitpickers -- know, DED does not work for Apple's advertising agency. And, Apple did not approve this.

 

That's not really the issue.  Clearly the Microsoft thing is an embarrassment for the MS marketing team- everyone knows 'Excel' actually gets the numbers right in reality.

 

The question I have as a 'surf-rental'/random bar chart labels etc etc nitpicker is that DED took an actual screenie of his 'Numbers' handywork.  Does Numbers actually botch things this badly or is it a similar error where he went in and tried to edit them and somehow botched them.   Apple may not have 'approved' DED's piece- but they did make 'Numbers'....   And if Numbers *actually* botches simple things like that it is unusable for anything meaningful beyond people trying to put their vacation dollars into a pie chart (really Microsoft?  Is there anyone out there that actually does this?)

post #86 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by defconi View Post

What I love about this site is how deep and intelligent analyses are.
But, sometimes it is so ridiculously biased that I, a faithful apple client, feel very disappointed and upset.
Is this a joke? Sorry, different sense of humor.
Let's be honest, Excel is the de facto standard for spreadsheet calculations.
Of course it can calulate, and it is far more powerful than apple numbers.

The explanation?
The $500 cell is highlighted in the picture. Which is the amount by which the total amount is off.
Answer... it could have been typed into the cell and not confirmed yet by pressing ENTER.

No bug there.

 

You’re being awfully serious. Are you Frank Shaw? 

Also, count how many pie chart wedges are on the Surface.

 

Also, count how many of these billboards Microsoft has paid to put up for roughly $150,000 per month. 

 

Oops!  

post #87 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by defconi View Post

What I love about this site is how deep and intelligent analyses are.
But, sometimes it is so ridiculously biased that I, a faithful apple client, feel very disappointed and upset.
Is this a joke? Sorry, different sense of humor.
Let's be honest, Excel is the de facto standard for spreadsheet calculations.
Of course it can calulate, and it is far more powerful than apple numbers.

The explanation?
The $500 cell is highlighted in the picture. Which is the amount by which the total amount is off.
Answer... it could have been typed into the cell and not confirmed yet by pressing ENTER.

No bug there.

again ... if they had not yet hit enter then the "500" would be on the left side of the input box, which is where it is when you type it but before hitting enter. having it on the right side of the input box indicates they have hit enter. also, it has the "$" next to it, indicating that formatting has been applied, which only happens after hitting enter.
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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post #88 of 224
Are you people for real! This article was written as a poke at m/s not as if excel calculated the numbers wrong and if you can't see the irony in that you need to put those horned rimmed glasses back on put your pin back in your pocket protector and seriously contemplate why at 40 you have never been laid!
post #89 of 224
Originally Posted by defconi View Post
Answer... it could have been typed into the cell and not confirmed yet by pressing ENTER.

 

And this is somehow an excuse for not proofreading? No. It isn’t. Not in any circumstance. There is no explanation for this. It is laziness at best, false advertising at worst.

 

Pathetic, all you Microsoft hit and runs.

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #90 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

That's not really the issue.  Clearly the Microsoft thing is an embarrassment for the MS marketing team- everyone knows 'Excel' actually gets the numbers right in reality.

 

The question I have as a 'surf-rental'/random bar chart labels etc etc nitpicker is that DED took an actual screenie of his 'Numbers' handywork.  Does Numbers actually botch things this badly or is it a similar error where he went in and tried to edit them and somehow botched them.   Apple may not have 'approved' DED's piece- but they did make 'Numbers'....   And if Numbers *actually* botches simple things like that it is unusable for anything meaningful beyond people trying to put their vacation dollars into a pie chart (really Microsoft?  Is there anyone out there that actually does this?)

 

This article was not printed onto a giant banner and posted all over America at fantastic cost, so it was easy to fix the typo you’d prefer to talk about to distract away from the fact that Microsoft bungled its ad in a very embarrassing way. 

post #91 of 224
I'm sorry but this article is stupid. Does anyone really believe excel on a surface tablet can't properly add numbers? Of course not. So then it's just making fun of what appears to be a dumb billboard advertisement. Is this the best DED can do?
post #92 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm sorry but this article is stupid. Does anyone really believe excel on a surface tablet can't properly add numbers? Of course not. So then it's just making fun of what appears to be a dumb billboard advertisement. Is this the best DED can do?

no.

yes.
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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post #93 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

This article was not printed onto a giant banner and posted all over America at fantastic cost, so it was easy to fix the typo you’d prefer to talk about to distract away from the fact that Microsoft bungled its ad in a very embarrassing way. 

but it was written by the guy who provides editorials and opinion pieces. you know, something that requires insight and attention to details ... not jump-the-gun hypocrisy and irony.
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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post #94 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

This article was not printed onto a giant banner and posted all over America at fantastic cost, so it was easy to fix the typo you’d prefer to talk about to distract away from the fact that Microsoft bungled its ad in a very embarrassing way.

 

I think the Microsoft thing is funny and I'm happy to laugh at it.

 

If you are stating that your equally funny botched 'Numbers' screenshots were a typo, then I'm happy to laugh at them too.

 

It would not be so funny if those were results that 'Numbers' actually delivered (as it would not be funny for MS if those Excel results were real).

 

You taking the time to scramble and fix your Numbers is entertaining, but not nearly as much as fun as it is going to be watching MS scramble to pull these down.

post #95 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapi View Post

Wow. This is worthy of an article? This is shameful. Let MS or Google and Apple fight it out accordingly but this is cheap. Office is better than anything Apple has EVER put out, this no one can argue. They're just using it as feature which is smart. The same way Apple uses their ecosystem to sell iStuff. You guys can't be such fanboys not to appreciate something else other than Apples stuff. The surface is actually very nice, I prefer the iPad of course but I have both. He surface is better at some things but that's life, no device is perfect. I know this is AI but have some balls to appreciate another product. So what if the calculation is off? Would anyone in their right mind use numbers over excel? Never. It was maybe a typo, who knows? It is idiotic to write an article about this. Shameful.

To be honest, Pages, and especially Keynote, defecate all over their Microsoft counterparts.

Numbers is not as easy for cell entry as Excel but that could merely be my muscle memory from all the years of being forced to use Excel.
post #96 of 224
ROFL
post #97 of 224
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapi View Post

Wow. This is worthy of an article? This is shameful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][

 

What is shameful is pathetic shills such as yourself, who feel compelled to sign up in order to whine about this accurate article. I find you to be an extremely suspicious character, and I do not trust your intentions.

 

Microsoft can dish it out, but they can't take anything in return? Have you not seen the ads bashing Apple? Have you not seen Microsoft using SIRI's voice in their ads, to promote their failed Surface tablet? Are you blind? Have you been living under a rock? Do you receive a Microsoft paycheck?

 

And yet, an accurate article comes along, pointing out an embarrassing flaw in Microsoft's recent ad, and that causes you to lash out at the article which points out that flaw? Truth be damned, nobody should dare speak about this! Are you part of the Gestapo?

 

Do you not see the enormous irony in a spreadsheet program getting it's math wrong? What is your defect? Microsoft deserves all of the mocking that it's going to get for this. 

BigPapi is another "user" who is on the MS clock doing damage control for this article - only joined today - at least under this user name.


Edited by Michael_C - 11/10/13 at 9:51am
post #98 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_C View Post
 

BigPapi is another "user" who is on the MS clock doing damage control for this article - only joined today - at least under this user name.

 

And believe me, as a Red Sox fan, he's no Big Papi. :D

post #99 of 224
Do you really think there's a problem with Excel being able to calculate properly? Numbers can do math but Excel gets the problem incorrect?

It's obviously a marketing dept typo.If you're saying Excel can't handle math, that seems as desperate and ridiculous as Microsoft's comments about iWork.
post #100 of 224

3-4 years ago Numbers was ridiculously difficult to use even to make a simple graph from a table. Select the right values to use as x or y was too complex.

It's now a lot simpler than it used to. But apparently they still have a lot to do.

post #101 of 224
Microsoft Word and Excel. Hmmmm. I remember those. Aren't they from the 1960's?
post #102 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapi View Post

So what if the calculation is off? Would anyone in their right mind use numbers over excel? Never. It was maybe a typo, who knows? It is idiotic to write an article about this. Shameful.

 

More shameful than a "typo" in an ad pimping Excel?

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post #103 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFlash View Post

The Numbers example did a great job of adding the column of numbers, but what's with the chart? It is quite lovely, all 3D and all. However, it has TWO slices labeled "Car" and NO slices labeled "Surf Rentals". Does Numbers have trouble with transposition of the content of a spreadsheet to a chart?

I wish you would have indicated which Numbers Pie Chart was in error, iOS, OS X, or Web Version. I've looked and looked and do not see any of the three Numbers charts with double slices labeled "Car". I'm either blind or DED was alerted to the error and corrected it. I have caught him several times with "Typos" and have alerted him of the error and he's been thankful for the editorial comment and made corrections. 

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post #104 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 

Numbers has a shocking bug whereby it won't allow you to reference the same cell twice in a formula.  Absolutely pitiful.  There is a work around but it shouldn't be necessary.

 

As for Pages, it too has a stupid bug that just shouldn't be there.  It can't differentiate a character with an intrinsic trailing or leading space from the version of the character without, so if you want to search for all instances of  " and replace it " without the preceding space it treats them as the same character, even though they aren't.

 

These two bugs are so basic I think Microsoft isn't far wrong in their assessment.

The difference is Apple doesn't put up big billboards displaying these bugs.

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post #105 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
Apple may not have 'approved' DED's piece- but they did make 'Numbers'....   And if Numbers *actually* botches simple things like that it is unusable for anything meaningful beyond people trying to put their vacation dollars into a pie chart (really Microsoft?  Is there anyone out there that actually does this?)

Um... what do you think? :rolleyes:

post #106 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by defconi View Post

What I love about this site is how deep and intelligent analyses are.
But, sometimes it is so ridiculously biased that I, a faithful apple client, feel very disappointed and upset.
Is this a joke? Sorry, different sense of humor.
Let's be honest, Excel is the de facto standard for spreadsheet calculations.
Of course it can calulate, and it is far more powerful than apple numbers.

The explanation?
The $500 cell is highlighted in the picture. Which is the amount by which the total amount is off.
Answer... it could have been typed into the cell and not confirmed yet by pressing ENTER.

No bug there.

 

Too easy to spot when you know the terms they frequently use on these forums.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #107 of 224
While I find it funny when people make these blunders, too. I would feel better if us Mac people didn't resort to giving a false impression just because others do it.

If you look at the 500 dollar car expense you will see the cell is selected. The "error" is the add agency who didn't his the enter key before taking the photo. The auto sum at the bottom would have updated by 500 and been correct had they done so.

Still pretty stupid on someones part, but not the software. And while then advertising could be desperation, it could be they recognize that being able to do real work on a tablet is a new market that will grow if people ever build for it. Honestly, if Apple made a "surface" (dumbest naming idea ever) that ran OSX when I needed it, I think I'd be in line and so would a lot of other people.

This is one case where Microsoft finally risk innovation, I'd thick us Mac users ought to respect the attempt. And of course wait for Apple to do it better before jumping in.

Just my thoughts. But it was a good laugh.
post #108 of 224
Funny : )
post #109 of 224
Although this is a big blunder on MS part and it made me laugh the truth is that excel is a superior product to numbers.
It's definately more powerful and apple should put a lot of effort in bringing more features to numbers. Hopefully sooner than later too.

Source: myself, heavy spreadsheet user.
post #110 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleish View Post

Do you really think there's a problem with Excel being able to calculate properly? Numbers can do math but Excel gets the problem incorrect?

It's obviously a marketing dept typo.If you're saying Excel can't handle math, that seems as desperate and ridiculous as Microsoft's comments about iWork.

The accuracy of Excel or Numbers is not the issue. Of course both of these programs add the numbers correctly. The whole point of this article is to point out that Microsoft's ad firm put up a billboard with a typo in it while trying to show how great Excel on the Surface is. Microsoft paid millions for this ad and billboard space all across America and it's a poke at the mistake. The irony of this mistake is just too great not to ignore and laugh at.


Edited by GadgetCanadaV2 - 11/10/13 at 12:15pm

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post #111 of 224
That $500 is hidden by Microsoft offshore Ireland tax loophole.
post #112 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluga View Post

Although this is a big blunder on MS part and it made me laugh the truth is that excel is a superior product to numbers.
It's definately more powerful and apple should put a lot of effort in bringing more features to numbers. Hopefully sooner than later too.

Source: myself, heavy spreadsheet user.

 

Excel and the entire Office Suite are becoming less popular commercially because more and more consumers are figuring out that light productivity tools featured in Google Drive and iWork are perfectly capable of performing the functions they need on a daily basis. There is a reason that MSFT is literally giving Office away with Surface. They know like most know that Office is not the commodity that it was 4 years ago.

 

Only a small percentage of Office users are even aware of how deep Excel and Word go, so why bother with the expense of paying for Office when iWork and Google Drive are free. I haven't purchased a version of Office since 2007 because there is literally no good reason to.

 

In the next couple of years you can bank on MSFT doing a "light" productivity suite billed as "Office" and giving it away too to stay competitive in the areas of mobile and tablet productivity computing.

post #113 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post
 

The difference is Apple doesn't put up big billboards displaying these bugs.

 

Microsoft didn't put up billboards displaying any bugs, the advertising agency they employed made an error.  While that is amusing, Apple releasing competing software that actually does have serious basic bugs isn't amusing.

 

The adage - 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' - seems applicable.

post #114 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

Microsoft Word and Excel. Hmmmm. I remember those. Aren't they from the 1960's?


No, I think you are thinking of WordStar and Visicalc.

 

 

(Yes, I do know they date from the early/mid 80s)

 

The shame with Numbers is that Excel that ran on Windows 3.1 last century was a far deeper and superior product.

post #115 of 224
Too funny 1biggrin.gif

Before long...

Shawed == Ballmered == Sinofskyed == Borked
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post #116 of 224
Microsoft can't do the math any way. They say they are ment for the work bit the. ad says its ment for work and play while there dissing a 64 bit architecture. Wow Microsoft pathetic. 1oyvey.gif
Edited by GeorgeiP5 - 11/14/13 at 1:01am
post #117 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

Microsoft Word and Excel. Hmmmm. I remember those. Aren't they from the 1960's?


No, I think you are thinking of WordStar and Visicalc.


(Yes, I do know they date from the early/mid 80s)

The shame with Numbers is that Excel that ran on Windows 3.1 last century was a far deeper and superior product.

Look it up!

WordStar and VisiCalc date from 1979.

Excel was released for the Mac in 1985.
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post #118 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

Excel and the entire Office Suite are becoming less popular commercially because more and more consumers are figuring out that light productivity tools featured in Google Drive and iWork are perfectly capable of performing the functions they need on a daily basis. There is a reason that MSFT is literally giving Office away with Surface. They know like most know that Office is not the commodity that it was 4 years ago.

Only a small percentage of Office users are even aware of how deep Excel and Word go, so why bother with the expense of paying for Office when iWork and Google Drive are free. I haven't purchased a version of Office since 2007 because there is literally no good reason to.

In the next couple of years you can bank on MSFT doing a "light" productivity suite billed as "Office" and giving it away too to stay competitive in the areas of mobile and tablet productivity computing.

From my experience you can't do serious work on google spreadsheet nor on numbers. For light users it's probably the same or even better than excel but if you want to do more you have to go with excel.

That's a big part of why MS can sell its suite where the others have to give it out for free.

I wish apple adds functionality and features and I am sure they will. You cannot not have pivot tables for example.
post #119 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Microsoft didn't put up billboards displaying any bugs, the advertising agency they employed made an error.  While that is amusing, Apple releasing competing software that actually does have serious basic bugs isn't amusing.

The adage - 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' - seems applicable.

Not applicable. If you're going to deflect blame to Microsoft's ad agency, you can't call Apple out for hypocrisy because they aren't the ones making fun of this ad. It's DED who is "throwing stones." DED is not a proxy for Apple any more than your precious "advertising agency" is a proxy for Microsoft.

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post #120 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Look it up!

WordStar and VisiCalc date from 1979.

Excel was released for the Mac in 1985.


It was a joke.

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