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Apple shares may sink below Microsoft in S&P 500 influence after 2013 losses

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
Apple is in danger of having its four-year run as the leading mover in the S&P 500 stock index ended by old nemesis Microsoft after a rough year in the markets that has left Cupertino battered and Redmond resurgent.

AAPL vs MSFT 2013 YTD performance
Shares of Apple and Microsoft have taken opposite roads in 2013.


Apple's precarious position stems from a combination of factors. The S&P 500 is a weighted index --?that is, certain companies are given more power over the movement of the index than others --?and weights are based broadly on each company's market capitalization.

By virtue of its impressive market cap, Apple enjoys the highest weighting in the index, at about three percent. This means little when the stock is up, but magnifies the effects of a downturn like Apple has faced this year, having slumped by around one percent year-to-date.

Microsoft sports the third-highest weight in the index?with just under two percent. Combined with the company's nearly 40 percent year-to-date share price leap and second place ExxonMobil's lackluster performance, this means it is Microsoft, rather than Apple, that is the tech company most likely to lead the S&P when trading closes on Dec. 31.

According to data compiled earlier this week by Bloomberg, Apple is not only in danger of losing its leadership position, but may even end the year as the biggest drag on the index. At the close of trading Monday, Apple's 13.74-point slump was good enough for a corresponding 1.6-index point decline for the S&P, compared to a 9.2-index point boost from Microsoft.
post #2 of 49
First problem with this "story" was referring to Bloomberg as a reliable source of information on Apple.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #3 of 49
lol...OMG! What is Apple going to do now?
post #4 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

First problem with this "story" was referring to Bloomberg as a reliable source of information on Apple.

 

Bloomberg didn't give any information about Apple.  They used publicly available information about stock performance and known index weightings to make a projection.  Do you attack any source that says something you don't like?  Grow up.

 

That aside, this is an enormously unimportant story.  It doesn't matter to Apple or to its investors if AAPL has less or more influence in the S&P 500 index value.  Indices like the S&P take value from their component stocks, not the other way around.

post #5 of 49
But MS had the advantage of firing Baller. No such person at Apple.
"See her this weekend. You hit it off, come Turkey Day, maybe you can stuff her."
- Roger Sterling
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"See her this weekend. You hit it off, come Turkey Day, maybe you can stuff her."
- Roger Sterling
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post #6 of 49
Another man made POS for the captive audience of sheep in America. History won't be kind to this bull****.
post #7 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

Bloomberg didn't give any information about Apple.  They used publicly available information about stock performance and known index weightings to make a projection.  Do you attack any source that says something you don't like?  Grow up.

 

That aside, this is an enormously unimportant story.  It doesn't matter to Apple or to its investors if AAPL has less or more influence in the S&P 500 index value.  Indices like the S&P take value from their component stocks, not the other way around.

 

Just like the NYTimes site, Bloomberg is a known Apple troll. Wake up, "wakey."

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #8 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Just like the NYTimes site, Bloomberg is a known Apple troll. Wake up, "wakey."

Gosh, I thought Bloomberg was anti-Google. Guess they just don't like either one then.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #9 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

Just like the NYTimes site, Bloomberg is a known Apple troll. Wake up, "wakey."

 

I don't know why Bloomberg or NYT would troll Apple, and I haven't seen it (nor looked for it).  But even if they have written unjustifiably negative articles in the past, which seems counterproductive for a major financial news organization like Bloomberg, this article has absolutely nothing to do with Apple as a company.  You understand that right?

post #10 of 49
Does this mean, I should throw my freshly unpacked iPad Air right out of the window?

This kind of stories get more and more reticulous.

Even soma double blinded WSJ jerks should realize: this is a 100% made up story.
post #11 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

You understand that right?

 

What side of the bed did you get out of Wakey? You immediately jump on this guy, admit your ignorance of Bloomberg and NYT... so what should anyone read what you have to say? You are just like those who occasionally come on here and nit pick over grammar and spelling... he was making a comment. you are making an ass of yourself. Bet you have a lot of friends don't you? You may not be an Apple troll but you are the worst kind, just a TROLL. Time to pile on men! Yes, I am having a bad and no, you didn't start it, but it seems like you would have liked to.

post #12 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfozz View Post
 

 

What side of the bed did you get out of Wakey? You immediately jump on this guy, admit your ignorance of Bloomberg and NYT... so what should anyone read what you have to say? You are just like those who occasionally come on here and nit pick over grammar and spelling... he was making a comment. you are making an ass of yourself. Bet you have a lot of friends don't you? You may not be an Apple troll but you are the worst kind, just a TROLL. Time to pile on men! Yes, I am having a bad and no, you didn't start it, but it seems like you would have liked to.

 

Hi, it's nice to meet you bobby!  No, I'm not a troll.  I'm an anti-troll.

post #13 of 49

This seems wildly ironic.  Apple, which is in the process of taking over the world, with 25% of the entire phone market in the US (up from 17% last year and 10% the year before), is struggling in the stock market.  While MS, which is rapidly sinking towards irrelevance, is the leading mover.  What a world!

post #14 of 49
This is meaningless. Any stock analyst worth his salt looks at the core values of a company. The only thing this article will do is artificially decrease Apple's stock price, people will jump at the chance to own Apple stock, buy and thus bring the price back up.
In other words, call your brokers, issue some buy orders!
post #15 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post
 

This seems wildly ironic.  Apple, which is in the process of taking over the world, with 25% of the entire phone market in the US (up from 17% last year and 10% the year before), is struggling in the stock market.  While MS, which is rapidly sinking towards irrelevance, is the leading mover.  What a world!

I'm having a problem wrapping my mind around the fact that Apple is still by far the most valuable company by Market Value at 475 B, Exxon at 407 B, Google at 345 B, and MS at 317 B.  The only company in 2 years who has either trade places for the top spot or even come close is Exxon.  MS may be a threat to Google but they are not even close to challenging Apple in value.  

post #16 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But MS had the advantage of firing Baller. No such person at Apple.

Do you realize that if Apple fires a janitor, the headlines will read, "Rumors of a mass layoff at Apple swirl around Cupertino."


Bloomberg rings the closing bell on December 31st, while calling out, "DOOM. Doom, I say for all of Apple. Woe upon all who pray to Cupertino."
post #17 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

This seems wildly ironic.  Apple, which is in the process of taking over the world, with 25% of the entire phone market in the US (up from 17% last year and 10% the year before), is struggling in the stock market.  While MS, which is rapidly sinking towards irrelevance, is the leading mover.  What a world!

Stock prices are not a reliable indicator as to how well a company, or economy is doing. A stock price is simple what a bunch of computers are willing to pay to purchase a single share. Most trading today is automated. That's what caused the Black Monday crash of '87.
post #18 of 49
Neither company is too shabby.


Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #19 of 49
Why is Apple insider reporting on a non story. This is click bait. Im going to stop clicking on AI articles that are designed as click bait for advertisers.
post #20 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Why is Apple insider reporting on a non story. This is click bait. Im going to stop clicking on AI articles that are designed as click bait for advertisers.

Sadly this is now the new AI norm / MO what ever you want to call it. I wish DED would just spin off and have his own blog and I'd leave here and join that quite happily. In fact once I hit 10,000 I may well pull a Soli anyway.
Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

Bloomberg didn't give any information about Apple.  They used publicly available information about stock performance and known index weightings to make a projection.  Do you attack any source that says something you don't like?  Grow up.

 

That aside, this is an enormously unimportant story.  It doesn't matter to Apple or to its investors if AAPL has less or more influence in the S&P 500 index value.  Indices like the S&P take value from their component stocks, not the other way around.

Yup. And yup.  Clear simple analysis of the info provided.

 

And I don't believe the fine folks below even read your second para. Or if they did, remotely understood it. 

There's a lot of people in this church, err, tech forum who can "out-compute" me by an exponential amount, but when it comes to (often perverse and out of sync) finance and markets don't have clue one,

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

Just like the NYTimes site, Bloomberg is a known Apple troll. Wake up, "wakey."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfozz View Post
 

What side of the bed did you get out of Wakey? You immediately jump on this guy, admit your ignorance of Bloomberg and NYT... so what should anyone read what you have to say? You are just like those who occasionally come on here and nit pick over grammar and spelling... he was making a comment. you are making an ass of yourself. Bet you have a lot of friends don't you? You may not be an Apple troll but you are the worst kind, just a TROLL. Time to pile on men! Yes, I am having a bad and no, you didn't start it, but it seems like you would have liked to.

Touchy, touchy....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Does this mean, I should throw my freshly unpacked iPad Air right out of the window?

This kind of stories get more and more reticulous.

Even soma double blinded WSJ jerks should realize: this is a 100% made up story.

 

"Reticulous" indeed.  On multiple levels.

WakeFinance is no troll, and the stock market's doing what it does - one piece of which is boosting stocks it's excited about and not acting excited about things which are cyclically out of favor.  Until they go off in another direction, fall out of love, fall into new love, etc., etc. 

And this is simply data about what the markets are doing now and the extrapolated trend (knowing that "past performance is no guarantee of future returns").

So with these posts you're not "troll detectives," rather simply reflexive bashers....


Edited by bigpics - 11/14/13 at 3:38pm

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #22 of 49
Can't everything be considered "click bait?" It is an article containing speculation by the author. You can agree, disagree or use the info presented to influence your next stock purchase. There are plenty of similar articles in every publication.
post #23 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But MS had the advantage of firing Baller. No such person at Apple.

You win the Kewpie doll.  MS's good market performance really kicked in the day after Bizarro-Steve announced his plan to exit Redmond....

...as in "the next guy can't possibly be as bad when given this huge pool of tech resources and market share to work with."


Edited by bigpics - 11/14/13 at 6:29pm

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #24 of 49

Redmond is "surging"?  Based on what, exactly?

 

  • A smartphone platform that is a failure in major markets and that has barely gained any traction worldwide?

 

  • A tablet/PC/whatever platform that nobody really cares about, and which garnered MS a hefty writedown?

 

  • A Windows/Office business model that is being steadily eroded by tablets that have nothing to do with Microsoft?

 

  • A chronically-underdeveloped mobile app ecosystem?

 

  • A money-losing and share-losing partner company that MS thinks is a great buy (that for some reason is developing a product that actually competes the MS' own offering - LOL figure that one out)?

 

  • A chronically unprofitable gaming console?
post #25 of 49

HEY LOOK!!! I CAN PLAY WITH THE GRAPH TOO!!!

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

:D

post #26 of 49

And now they're back to marketing Office (Excel.)

 

O.o 

post #27 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And now they're back to marketing Office (Excel.)

O.o 

Which sucks on the Mac.
I have not run into anything Excel can do that Numbers can't. After all these accounting, statistics and financial analysis classes.
post #28 of 49

Okay, somebody please explain why this is bad for Apple because I don’t see it. 

post #29 of 49
So...the S&P 500 is constantly manipulated to keep investors thinking the economy is stronger than it is?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #30 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike022465 View Post
 

HEY LOOK!!! I CAN PLAY WITH THE GRAPH TOO!!!

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

:D

AAPL = 16072.95%

MSFT = 37619.25%

 

post #31 of 49

Time to toss Cook's ass onto the street and replace him with Ballmer.

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #32 of 49
Interesting article. It does suggest that S&P fudges their index to make S&P look good to investors.
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleCPA View Post

I have not run into anything Excel can do that Numbers can't. After all these accounting, statistics and financial analysis classes.

Funny, I run into incompatibilities all the time. Numbers apparently only has about half as many functions as Excel. I've been told most of the missing functions are statistical and finance related so I'm puzzled why you have not encountered them. Don't ask me which functions though because as soon as I encounter the warnings I have to send the files off to the Windows boys or fire up my own Windows box. I'm not an Excel formula guy except for simple stuff like SUM or PMT. All I know is, if when opening the file in Numbers, it generates a warning, there is no reason to continue because it will be a wasted effort.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post
 

Redmond is "surging"?  Based on what, exactly?

 

  • A smartphone platform that is a failure in major markets and that has barely gained any traction worldwide?

 

  • A tablet/PC/whatever platform that nobody really cares about, and which garnered MS a hefty writedown?

 

  • A Windows/Office business model that is being steadily eroded by tablets that have nothing to do with Microsoft?

 

  • A chronically-underdeveloped mobile app ecosystem?

 

  • A money-losing and share-losing partner company that MS thinks is a great buy (that for some reason is developing a product that actually competes the MS' own offering - LOL figure that one out)?

 

  • A chronically unprofitable gaming console?

 The long anticipated departure of Steve Ballmer.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Interesting article. It does suggest that S&P fudges their index to make S&P look good to investors.

 

I would love to know how you came to that conclusion.

 

There is nothing fishy about the way the S&P 500 index weights are calculated: it's a weighted average of market capitalization.  They add up the market cap of the 500 companies included and then divide each company's market cap by the total.  That percentage is the weight that company has in the index.  The weights for all the companies are multiplied by the change in stock value each day, and then all 500 are added together to show either a rise or a decline in the level of the index.

post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

Time to toss Cook's ass onto the street and replace him with Ballmer.


Microsoft couldn't help but get a bump by firing Ballmer. While everyone is talking about Apple vs Samsung or Google it wouldn't be shocking if MS made some level of a comeback with the right management. Clearly Ballmer was killing the company. Bill Gates wasn't helping either, I believe he was even asked to step down as chairman.

post #37 of 49
Well, it looks like the guy from Bloomberg have not yet bought enough Apple shares and is hardly trying to get the cheaper.

Those news are typical to fund managers investors. They are not trolls. They are smart and calculated and are scaring new one off "investors" that usually buying high and selling cheap.

Well, all the best for this funds but they are a tad too late...
post #38 of 49

Today. Apple's market cap is 50% higher than Microsoft's.

 

Are you guys smoking with the mayor of Toronto?

post #39 of 49
What an absurd article. The tone is so dire, like this is the worst thing that could ever happen to Apple... yet it's actually completely meaningless. What is the benefit of being the company that has the largest weighting in the S&P 500 index? Who cares?

Beyond the ridiculous tone, the facts make no sense. Do you really think that Microsoft will surpass Apple in market cap by the end of the year? You say, "This means it is Microsoft, rather than Apple, that is the tech company most likely to lead the S&P when trading closes on Dec. 31." Apple is currently valued at $475 billion while Microsoft is at $317 billion. In order for Microsoft to lead the S&P, their stock price would have to rise by nearly 50% in less than two months, or Apple would have to fall by a similarly huge amount, neither of which is even remotely likely.

And what on earth does this paragraph mean? "By virtue of its impressive market cap, Apple enjoys the highest weighting in the index, at about three percent. This means little when the stock is up, but magnifies the effects of a downturn like Apple has faced this year, having slumped by around one percent year-to-date."

You say it means little when the stock is up, but "magnifies the effects of a downturn..." How is it magnified? And what exactly is magnified? The "effect" is directly tied to the stock price, so it is exactly the same whether the stock is moving up or down. It means little when the stock is up, and just as little when the stock is down. It means nothing. And how is a 1% reduction in stock price considered a "downturn" or a "slump"? It's practically flat, and could turn positive in a single trading session.

This is the worst writing I have read in a very long time.

EDIT: I just read source article and it now makes sense. You completely botched the central fact. Apple isn't in danger of losing its position as the biggest influencer of the S&P 500 as you say, it could lose its position as the company that adds the most index points to the S&P 500. That is a completely different thing. You really need to go read the source article again, and then rewrite your article, because you seriously screwed it up.
Edited by starxd - 11/14/13 at 10:07pm
post #40 of 49

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