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Retina iPad mini display shows poorer color accuracy than Apple's iPad Air - Page 2

post #41 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Sorry but Apple has never claimed the Air was their premium product. Most likely the mini is clocked lower because of thermal and battery issues, not to give the Air a "premium" edge. Probably the same thing with color gamut.

 

The lower clock rate is for technical reasons imo. In some games the Rmini gets very hot while the air is just warm.  It looks like the Rmini already as thermal issues so lowering the clock rate was the way to go.

post #42 of 200
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post
WTH? Why can't they both be top notch?

 

Ask the display’s manufacturer.

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post #43 of 200

The difference is significant.  The color gamut on the new mini is apparently the same as the old mini, which is about 60-70% od sRGB.  Blue and magenta hues will be distorted. Gamut-wise, this is about the same as the iPad 2 and MacBook Air, and slightly worse that the "classic" MacBook Pros.

 

For most users, this doesn't matter at all.  For some, it's very important. I think that the disappointment comes from the fact that since the release of iPhone 5, every display with the "retina" moniker covered 95-100% of sRGB.  Now we have a retina display that isn't full sRGB gamut, and in a sense, that weakens the Retina brand.

post #44 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jediknight View Post

I can confirm this. I went to the Apple store on Saturday to checkout the New iPad Air and Retina Mini. I did my normal test that I do at all Apple stores when new devices are launched. As a hobby I do photography so Display matters a lot to me. I picked up an iPad Retina Mini and went to my Flickr account and looked at my pictures. I immediately noticed all my pics look a bit washed out (The colors were less saturated). I then went to a iPad Air and the colors looked a lot better. I then looked at them on the iMac and the Retina MacBook Pro. All fine, but Retina MacBook Pro looked amazing, of course. I then went back to the iPad Mini Retina and looked at my photos again and they looked washed out. I was considering a Retina Mina but now I will wait. Accurate colors matters a lot to me. My girlfriend or daughter wouldn't notice a thing, so it can be a good Xmas gift to them.

 

Did you do this 'test' before or after you heard comments about the Retina's lack of color accuracy?

post #45 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Ask the display’s manufacturer.
Who sets color gamut to Apple's specifications.
post #46 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Give them a pass for what crap? What standard does the LG display panel used in the iPad mini retina display have to live up to before people who say "stop blowing this issue into gamut gate" are not slammed for "making excuses for Apple when there's no possible excuse"?

Please, quantify the minimum gamut that defines the line between "this crap" and "excusable."

How about we take all other companies out of the loops and simply set the standard that the color gamut should be as good as the iPad 4 which to date had the best color gamut followed by the Air. The Mini isn't even remotely close to either.

post #47 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jediknight View Post

I can confirm this. I went to the Apple store on Saturday to checkout the New iPad Air and Retina Mini. I did my normal test that I do at all Apple stores when new devices are launched. As a hobby I do photography so Display matters a lot to me. I picked up an iPad Retina Mini and went to my Flickr account and looked at my pictures. I immediately noticed all my pics look a bit washed out (The colors were less saturated). I then went to a iPad Air and the colors looked a lot better. I then looked at them on the iMac and the Retina MacBook Pro. All fine, but Retina MacBook Pro looked amazing, of course. I then went back to the iPad Mini Retina and looked at my photos again and they looked washed out. I was considering a Retina Mina but now I will wait. Accurate colors matters a lot to me. My girlfriend or daughter wouldn't notice a thing, so it can be a good Xmas gift to them.

 

I was able to make the Air and Rmini looks almost exactly the same by playing with the brightness settings on both devices. That being said you would still probably see the difference.

post #48 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Who sets color gamut to Apple's specifications.

 

imo they both work together on specs to see what is doable with a good yield with high volume. imo there is a technical issue at play here. And with the screen retention problems, low yield of the Rmini screens it looks like fine tuning the production line is no picnic.

 

When they have more experience with IGZO maybe they will be able to ramp up specs.

post #49 of 200

The Air is the top of the line iPad.  ($499 vs $399)

 

Why would you expect the MiniR to have the EXACT same quality screen?  I've seen both and they look the same.  Only some guy with a sharp eye or measuring software can tell the difference.  Bottom line is 99.999999% of people never adjust the settings on their television to industry standards.  Some of these tv's cost thousands, yet you don't hear people complain about the Blues not being exact.  Bottom line is Apple don't give a sheet about you color experts.  If you want accurate color go buy a MacBookPro or Lightning display.  No one should be doing serious photo work on a $399 device anyway.

post #50 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


WTH? Why can't they both be top notch?

So people who paid $100 more don't feel screwed.

 

The Mini Retina remains a good tablet, just not as good as the Air, though the difference is small.

post #51 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Last time I check the Air and rMini are both using IGZO screens.

Don't do this man: As long as the iPad DOESN'T have IGZO, the haters can ding the iPad for not having it. If the iPad does have IGZO, then they will have to think of something else in order to maintain the narrative of the iPad as a big disappointment. Gamut, I suppose, is the new IGZO.

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post #52 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 

 

I was able to make the Air and Rmini looks almost exactly the same by playing with the brightness settings on both devices. That being said you would still probably see the difference.

 

Agree with this.  I see pictures comparing the two but really the panels need to have the same break-in period to compare.  Also there are differences between individual iPads.  Bottom line is the difference is so minor its not even worth discussing.  I own an Air and had some time with a MiniR and there is no difference to me.  Unless you do professional photo work.  In that case stop being cheap and expect a $399 product to bring home your bacon.  Go buy a thunderbolt display for $999.

post #53 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

The Air is the top of the line iPad.  ($499 vs $399)

 

Why would you expect the MiniR to have the EXACT same quality screen?  I've seen both and they look the same.  Only some guy with a sharp eye or measuring software can tell the difference.  Bottom line is 99.999999% of people never adjust the settings on their television to industry standards.  Some of these tv's cost thousands, yet you don't hear people complain about the Blues not being exact.  Bottom line is Apple don't give a sheet about you color experts.  If you want accurate color go buy a MacBookPro or Lightning display.  No one should be doing serious photo work on a $399 device anyway.

 

indeed. Retina sells a lot better and is a lot more obvious to most consumers than a very small diffence in color accuracy. That being said I think is was still important for Apple to have its more high end product be color accurate since its there trademarks on the macs too.

post #54 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


WTH? Why can't they both be top notch?

 

Why can't the BMW 325 have as much horsepower as a 335?

Why can't a Merc C-Class have as much horsepower as a Merc S-Class?

 

Use your brain.  The Air cost 25% more than the MiniR.

post #55 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

imo they both work together on specs to see what is doable with a good yield with high volume. imo there is a technical issue at play here. And with the screen retention problems, low yield of the Rmini screens it looks like fine tuning the production line is no picnic.

When they have more experience with IGZO maybe they will be able to ramp up specs.
I don't disagree with you. I 100% believe it is engineering issues and not Apple trying to make the RMini inferior to the Air.
post #56 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Sorry but Apple has never claimed the Air was their premium product. Most likely the mini is clocked lower because of thermal and battery issues, not to give the Air a "premium" edge. Probably the same thing with color gamut.

I agree that the differences between the two have to do with size, battery and thermal issues.

post #57 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Don't do this man: As long as the iPad DOESN'T have IGZO, the haters can ding the iPad for not having it. If the iPad does have IGZO, then they will have to think of something else in order to maintain the narrative of the iPad as a big disappointment. Gamut, I suppose, is the new IGZO.

 

Yeah right, they are not using IZGO...

 

If those panels are not IGZO then Apple deserved an award for what they did with a-Si LCD panel. Cutting half of the leds on a a-Si LCD and still manage to have a decent screen would be nothing short of a miracle.

post #58 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Why can't the BMW 325 have as much horsepower as a 335?
Why can't a Merc C-Class have as much horsepower as a Merc S-Class?

Use your brain.  The Air cost 25% more than the MiniR.
So a higher clocked A7 chip is more expensive to produce? It has nothing to do with battery life or ensuring the back of the device doesn't get too out under intensive use?
post #59 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

The Air is the top of the line iPad.  ($499 vs $399)

I thought the air was their top of the line full size iPad.
Edited by AppleinsiderFrm - 11/18/13 at 10:29am
post #60 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Yes, last year Anandtech said don't hold your breath for a retina mini in 2013.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6429/ipad-mini-review/5

Perhaps all those engineering issues weren't solved and so Apple delivered the best retina mini they could right now.

Well, actually, Apple *solved* the so-called engineering problems by making the mini thicker and heavier. 

post #61 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Why can't the BMW 325 have as much horsepower as a 335?

Why can't a Merc C-Class have as much horsepower as a Merc S-Class?

 

Use your brain.  The Air cost 25% more than the MiniR.

Use *your* brain; it doesn't.

post #62 of 200

BREAKING NEWS!!!

 

BMW 325 has poorer horsepower than BWM 750. 

post #63 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Are you seriously trying to throw mud at Anand? It's not like he did a separate article calling Apple out, this was included in his comprehensive iPad mini Retina review. And Anand has always been kind to Apple devices; it's not like he's a hater.

Not sure what you mean by mud. I said they wouldn't have a story. Don't know how that translated into "mud" in your mind.

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post #64 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

So in other words it's NOT an oversaturated mess like you find on, say, Samsung devices.

Got it.

This isn't about saturation, it's about color gamut, or the range of colors the display is capable of reproducing.  How saturated those colors are is a different issue.  

post #65 of 200
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post #66 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

Use *your* brain; it doesn't.

 

Explain.

 

MiniR is $399 and Air cost $100 more.

$100/$399 = 25%

 

Air cost 25% more than MiniR.  Why the Hell would you expect it to have identical specs?

 

Do you expect a BMW that cost 25% more to have simular specs as the base model?

post #67 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Yeah right, they are not using IZGO...

If those panels are not IGZO then Apple deserved an award for what they did with a-Si LCD panel. Cutting half of the leds on a a-Si LCD and still manage to have a decent screen would be nothing short of a miracle.

I think the second point is true, Herb. I haven't seen any indication that the rMini is using IGZO.
post #68 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

So in other words it's NOT an oversaturated mess like you find on, say, Samsung devices.

Got it.

I don't get your defensiveness. I'm a stock holder and the less than sRGB display on the mini is annoying. Next I'm guessing we'll see the rMini get an sRGB display, but for €399 for a 16GB version Apple should of added it this year if they about having the best products over making money.
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post #69 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Explain.

MiniR is $399 and Air cost $100 more.
$100/$399 = 25%

Air cost 25% more than MiniR.  Why the Hell would you expect it to have identical specs?
I know!
You can tell the specs are different just by looking at it! It's bigger! Maybe even 25% bigger! I mean come on!
post #70 of 200
Kinda sucks, but it's not a big deal. Like the article says, if you are that picky about display, get the larger Air.
post #71 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don’t expect 60% cacao to taste like 95% cacao, after all.

That's an interesting point. Actually, it's not.
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post #72 of 200
Fact is, most people *just now* belly-aching about it wouldn't have really noticed had it not been pointed out to them.

I don't expect any two different Apple devices to have the same tone or "colour range" - whatever - to their displays in the first place, even if we're only comparing an iPad to a smaller iPad. Display manufacturers vary, and each "batch" can (and often does) have slightly different characteristics from others.

If you're looking for near-perfect colour accuracy in mobile devices, you're barking up the wrong tree.
post #73 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

This is unacceptable. I hope someone at Apple is pounding the table and yelling that this should not have gone out like this.  The Aandtech.com review goes into depth on the issue 

How is it that companies with a fraction of the resources can ship much better displays at volume?  

I don't know about volume, but I still find it unacceptable. I expect better from Apple.
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post #74 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

The fun part is that if some $79 whitebox tablet running Android 2.3 had shitty gamut, Anandtech wouldn't have a story. It's only fun to dig dirt on Apple.

The iPad mini cost $399 for the 16GB version. I should hope they mention that it has a sub-sRGB display. After all it's by far the most important component of the iPad. By far!
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post #75 of 200

I love how EVERYONE can now obviously tell the difference between the mini/Air display after this report, and have so much outrage, when I didn't hear a SINGLE negative peep about the display from a SINGLE person, from ANY forum or comment section, or ANY reviewer whatsoever. Not one, single negative comment about the screen- every single impression was ridiculously positive, even while millions of minis have probably already been sold. But now, after this report, everyone "notices" how this display is "washed out", "mediocre" , "shitty", etc, when it was near perfect before this report. 

 

Right. What a bunch of dishonest, disingenuous clowns some of you are. Grasping for straws for outrage. Yeah, when a product such as the mini pushes the envelope of technology to the limit, in terms of form factor, build quality, battery life, thinness, lightness, PPI, etc- you might need some tiny technical compromises to make the final product possible. If there was a comparable overall product to the mini made by anyone else on the planet, I'd say people have a point. But there isn't. Every single other product it's compared to has significant downfalls and compromises in one or more areas. 


Edited by Slurpy - 11/18/13 at 10:59am
post #76 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I have both the Air and new mini and its not so bad.  You can see the difference if you look carefully at both but normally you just used one device at a time...

On the other hand, the screen retention problem seems pretty serious. My ipad Air has it, my mini is OK. From what I saw the problem is pretty wipespread and could trigger a major recall at some point.

You should never buy any technology product until it's out at least 2 months IMO. Just to give them a chance to work out all the production kinks. Especially considering the sheer volume on new Apple products these days.
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post #77 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post
 

This is unacceptable. I hope someone at Apple is pounding the table and yelling that this should not have gone out like this.  The Aandtech.com review goes into depth on the issue 

 

How is it that companies with a fraction of the resources can ship much better displays at volume?  

Don't worry, most people are not aware of this "small but apparent" non-issue. The retina mini will sell more units than the ipad air.  But personally I'll skip this generation.

 

Apple is saving the true sRGB display with DeltaE the same as or better than the ipad air for the next refresh.  Just like they saved the retina display for this generation of mini.


Edited by ipen - 11/18/13 at 10:59am
post #78 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleinsiderFrm View Post


I know!
You can tell the specs are different just by looking at it! It's bigger! Maybe even 25% bigger! I mean come on!

 

You should know in the tech field bigger is not always more expensive.

 

Tech companies are constantly trying to make things smaller and smaller.  Bottom line is the iPadMini1 was sold at a much lower gross margin than the regular iPad (Apple said this in their filings).  So now you expect to get the exact same product in a shrunken size for 25% less?

post #79 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 

I love how EVERYONE can now obviously tell the difference between the mini/Air display after this report, and have so much outrage, when I didn't hear a SINGLE negative peep about the display from a SINGLE person, from ANY forum or comment section, or ANY reviewer whatsoever. Not one, single negative comment about the screen- every single impression was ridiculously positive. But now, after this report, everyone "notices" how this display is "washed out", "mediocre" , "shitty", etc, when it was near perfect before this report. 

 

Right. What a bunch of dishonest, disingenuous clowns some of you are. Grasping for straws for outrage. Yeah, when a product such as the mini pushes the envelope of technology to the limit, in terms of form factor, build quality, battery life, thinness, lightness, PPI, etc- you might need some tiny technical compromises to make the final product possible. If there was a comparable overall product to the mini made by anyone else on the planet, I'd say people have a point. But there isn't. Every single other product it's compared to has significant downfalls and compromises in one or more areas. 

You have no clue what you are talking about. Color gamut is not subjective it can be measured accurately. If you hold up an iPhone 5 next to the new Mini anyone can tell the Mini is washed out due to the lack of color gamut. If this was Samsung you would be bashing them, you are the one that is dishonest. 

 

If Apple is going to call their products premium and bash others then they better be able to deliver. The Mini color gamut on the Mini isn't even close to the Air we aren't talking about a 5% difference. 

post #80 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I love how EVERYONE can now obviously tell the difference between the mini/Air display after this report, and have so much outrage, when I didn't hear a SINGLE negative peep about the display from a SINGLE person, from ANY forum or comment section, or ANY reviewer whatsoever. Not one, single negative comment about the screen- every single impression was ridiculously positive. But now, after this report, everyone "notices" how this display is "washed out", "mediocre" , "shitty", etc, when it was near perfect before this report. 

Right. What a bunch of dishonest, disingenuous clowns some of you are. Grasping for straws for outrage. Yeah, when a product such as the mini pushes the envelope of technology to the limit, in terms of form factor, build quality, battery life, thinness, lightness, PPI, etc- you might need some tiny technical compromises to make the final product possible. If there was a comparable overall product to the mini made by anyone else on the planet, I'd say people have a point. But there isn't. Every single other product it's compared to has significant downfalls and compromises in one or more areas. 

Yes. This is exactly the point. Up until now, this device has received glowing reviews, and nary a word about any bad displays or colour issues.

Here's a taste:

http://gigaom.com/2013/11/15/what-the-reviews-say-about-the-ipad-mini-with-retina-display/
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