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Irish school's attempt to replace books with HP tablets results in 'unmitigated disaster' - Page 5

post #161 of 181
Originally Posted by Emes View Post
control yourselves

 

:lol:

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #162 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post
 

 

And that's an improvement over taking a poke at the River Dancer? A bad movie with lots of 2nd string muppets?


Yes. I reference lots of ancient bad movies. Last time it was Rocky IV. Once they're old enough, they become funny rather than just bad. It was also a sub-reference to flight of the conchords.

post #163 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
"We're not blaming anyone" for the failures, Gleeson said.
 

 

Ah, that's government bureaucracy at its finest...

post #164 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


No., an iPad can do almost all a laptop can, only sometimes better.
You can browse the web better than on a computer, you can create and edit text documents, spreadsheets and presentations (for example using the free apps Apple includes with each device), you can create and edit movies and sound projects (also using the free apps Apple includes) and can continue working on them on another computer or in the cloud.
You also have a limitless choice of other productivity apps, for example creative apps and endless games, not to mention email and all kinds of connectivity apps, etc. etc. etc.
If you ignore that, something is seriously wrong with you or you have an hidden agenda.

 

You're kidding, right?

 

You are saying that a device with a 9.7-inch screen which can only display one app at a time is better for spreadsheets and video editing than a fully-fledged computer?

 

The productivity and video editing solutions on an iPad are toys compared to what's available on a Mac or Windows PC.

post #165 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post
 

 

You're kidding, right?

 

You are saying that a device with a 9.7-inch screen which can only display one app at a time is better for spreadsheets and video editing than a fully-fledged computer?

 

The productivity and video editing solutions on an iPad are toys compared to what's available on a Mac or Windows PC.

 

I would call an IPad a toy in a condescending manner.  It's a tool just like any computer is a tool, it's just meant for certain situations where a laptop or a desktop wouldn't be the right tool.   In a way, neat computers, or cars are toys in a good way, but being condescending about it displays a certain degree of ignorance.  Some people use tablets as a main part of what they do, and for them it's the right tool.

post #166 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

I would call an IPad a toy in a condescending manner.  It's a tool just like any computer is a tool, it's just meant for certain situations where a laptop or a desktop wouldn't be the right tool.   In a way, neat computers, or cars are toys in a good way, but being condescending about it displays a certain degree of ignorance.  Some people use tablets as a main part of what they do, and for them it's the right tool.

He was referring to the software  for the iPad ("The productivity and video editing solutions on an iPad"), not the iPad itself. Calling MS Paint a toy doesn't mean the computer itself is a toy.

post #167 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

He was referring to the software  for the iPad ("The productivity and video editing solutions on an iPad"), not the iPad itself. You can call MS Paint a toy but that doesn't mean the computer itself is a toy.

He was calling the iPad a toy and giving an example of using spreadsheets and video editing on a 9.7 inch screen.

 

Well, that's not the two reasons why someone would buy an iPad, HOWEVER, if you are on vacation making short home movies or other things on an iPad, you can do video editing (nothing too fancy) on a short video on an iPad just fine.  You can also create and view/modify spreadsheets if need be in a pinch as well.  Some things an iPad is better suited for than a desktop or a laptop.  It's all what suits one's needs better.   Most video editors wouldn't consider an older generations iMac (the one with the monitor on that arm) useful for video editing, yet some have used it for a documentary and won an Oscar and they did all of the video editing on a freaking iMac.  I wouldn't normally consider an iPhone as the camera of choice when making a movie, however some people are actually using the iPhone's camera to take videos that are being used in a movie.   They want something to look more like a home made video rather than a professional video for certain sequences to give the audience a certain feeling.

 

It's all about choosing the right tool for the job.

post #168 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Do we know their exact usage scenario? HP does have proper docking station for ElitePads, which will provide connection for two standard LCD screens; this could be the reason why school went for ElitePat instead of HP's other tablet, Envy X2 (which has more common keyboard "dock").

Using tablet in "desktop" mode in classrooms (and maybe at home/dorm), and still having tablet portability in school mess, outdoors or in public transport... does not sound as such a bad idea.

While I can't deny that it's a possibility, 95% of the tablets in use in schools worldwide are iPads, according to Apple, and some independent sources. So that usage model would be very unusual indeed.

Unless he's stated the reasons why they went with this, we may never know those reasons. But it's surprising, to say the least.
post #169 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


Your claim was that interacting with the web via a browser is superior to doing so on a full fledged PC.  It is not.  It simply is not possible to complete a tax return and submit the completed form from an iPad where I live.  Nor can you use important elements of many websites that use flash.

Yes, but again, you're talking about a single case use. Overall, it's vastly better to interact with the web with a tablet. It's difficult to even say how much better it is, it's so much better.

Your problem is a failure of your government, not the iPad.
post #170 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emes View Post

Or maybe you should control yourselves and stick to one topic

Or perhaps you should understand that anything that affects Apple is appropriate news. And as Apple has 95% of the school tablet business worldwide, this tablet failure is newsworthy here.

We still have Microsoft stating that people need to use Windows because of all the software, which while hasn't really been true for many years, is a point they still try to make. So here, where almost all professional tablet education software is for iPads, it's a curious move they made going to these things. There are other schools in Ireland that use iPads, so obviously they work there in education. Perhaps this principal should have looked closer at those other schools there, and found out why they did what they did, how cuccessful they have been, and considered to go that way, rather than to be different from almost everyone else.

It's hard to understand what they were evaluating for 18 months. Though some of that should have been for teacher education and tablet use once it was decided to go that way.

So is the topic fair for our reading and discussion? Of course it is.
post #171 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

You're kidding, right?

You are saying that a device with a 9.7-inch screen which can only display one app at a time is better for spreadsheets and video editing than a fully-fledged computer?

The productivity and video editing solutions on an iPad are toys compared to what's available on a Mac or Windows PC.

Actually you're not entirely correct. I do some pretty sophisticated photo and movie editing on my iPad. Is it the same as on my Mac Pro? No, not yet. But the apps available are much better than the average non professional app on Windows. That's the truth, like it or not. I also do 3D cad, with autodesk 360. In fact, there are a lot of things I do with this thing that you couldn't even do with most desktops and laptops a few years ago.

In order to be so secure in your put down, you really need to know what you're talking about first. I find that people that are so convinced that the iPad can't do much either never used one at all, or in any serious way, or have a crappy, and I'm sorry to say it, really, but Windows Pro tablets are really crappy, having used one for a while. They're worse than the convertables I used in the 2000's, with much bigger screens. The Modern UI has little useful software, and the Desktop has a lot of useful software that's a real pain to use.

Edit: grammar.
post #172 of 181

The problem we have at our school with iPads is the lack of enterprise tools to manage them. You have to hit an accept or confirm button on each and every one if you purchase an app. Trying to do that to 500 tablets is a royal pain and something our small staff does not have time for. Free apps however are not problem with the tools we have tried. I've heard that Apple is working on some enterprise management tools, so we will see what happens.

We have a Windows Active Directory network where software installs, user rights and print management are pretty easy to manage without having to touch every device. That is probably why the IT department at the school featured in the article went with Windows tablets.

For personal use, I prefer iPads over any other tablet and own one myself. I prefer Windows tablets at my job since we have a Windows network and it is much easier to manage them.


Edited by SpikeS2014 - 11/25/13 at 7:39am
post #173 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeS2014 View Post

The problem we have at our school with iPads is the lack of enterprise tools to manage them. You have to hit an accept or confirm button on each and every one if you purchase an app. Trying to do that to 500 tablets is a royal pain and something our small staff does not have time for. Free apps however are not problem with the tools we have tried. I've heard that Apple is working on some enterprise management tools, so we will see what happens.
We have a Windows Active Directory network where software installs, user rights and print management are pretty easy to manage without having to touch every device. That is probably why the IT department at the school featured in the article went with Windows tablets.
For personal use, I prefer iPads over any other tablet and own one myself. I prefer Windows tablets at my job since we have a Windows network and it is much easier to manage them.
That's not a very sophisticated way of organizations buying apps. Apple has a way of making mass purchase for organizations. They can send their own apps out that way, or arrange for third party apps to be sent out that way. All tablets and phones can be updated to the new apps without having to do it tablet by tablet.

It's too bad that many schools and systems aren't sophisticated enough to know about, or use these features.
post #174 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

The HP ElitePad (Clover Trail) mentioned by the author is not exactly a good benchmark for what a Windows tablet can do.  Something like HP's $399 Omni 10 (Bay Trail) is based on a much improved x86-64 SoC.  It would be nothing more than blind ignorance to deny the benefits of such a device vs. an iPad. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

The HP ElitePad (Clover Trail) mentioned by the author is not exactly a good benchmark for what a Windows tablet can do.  Something like HP's $399 Omni 10 (Bay Trail) is based on a much improved x86-64 SoC.  It would be nothing more than blind ignorance to deny the benefits of such a device vs. an iPad. 

Since 95% of tablets in schools around the world! and almost 90% in corporate are iPads! it would be blind to think that tablets such as the OMNI 10 are worthwhile. They are not. They aren't worth the bother.
post #175 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

The Omni 10 is a full Windows computer in tablet form allowing for seamless integration with the countless PCs already in use worldwide, it is not running an ARM based tablet OS.  There is no "bother" about it, as all of the x86 software can run on it.

 

While I can't vouch for the quality of the Omni 10 as a device (although early hands-on are positive), a Z3770 tablet from another manufacturer (eg. Lenovo, Sharp, ASUS, etc.) might be more preferable.

 

It's actually a little silly comparing something as limited as an ARM based iOS device to an x86 Windows device (that can also be loaded with Linux for possible enterprise purposes).

I think a lot of schools are preferring iOS tablets vs full Windows is because of the s/w that's written and ease of use and administration.

 

A lot of these schools are putting their books on iBooks.  I think that's the compelling reason for a lot of schools.  I don't there are iBook readers that give full functionality of iBooks on other platforms.  The so-called iBooks readers that I've seen for other platforms suck as they are kludgy work around apps that may not actually work well.

 

IBooks is a growing trend in the K-12 and College level markets.

post #176 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

Full Windows tablets haven't exactly been an option until now.  Sure, older devices like the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 offered a quality build, 11 hour battery, and Wacom stylus support, but it lacked the performance to utilize Window's capabilities.  Current Z3740/Z3770 (x86-64) devices can handle Windows just fine, and the performance of these x86-64 tablets will only improve drastically over time.  In 2014 Intel will have 14nm Airmont and Broadwell chips (AMD also has some new products launching in the Silvermont/Airmont segment).   We've reached a point where ARM is no longer a requirement inside a device with a tablet form factor.

Well, if the school is implementing iBooks to replace traditional books or eBooks, then they will use iOS devices. iBooks is a compelling reason why a lot of schools are choosing iPads.   That's a "killer" app for schools.

post #177 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

There is no advantage to them by using iBooks, an x86 Windows solution that can offer more capabilities.  For example, active stylus support is already an input method that the iPad cannot offer.  Assuming the pricing stays the same, a potential ThinkPad Tablet 3 would cost around $499 with a Wacom stylus.  Other Z3770 tablets range from $399 to $499.  There are even more industrialized solutions from companies such as Sharp or Fujitsu, both of their Z3770 tablets offer active stylus support, higher than retina resolution,  and a durable design (with dust/water proofing).

A lot of the schools and colleges are implementing iBooks.  If you want to use a stylus, which only a small portion of people actually do, you can use a stylus with an iPad.   There are lots of educational titles already on iOS.  X86 based computers are much more involved from an administration standpoint and the iPads are VERY easy to administrate, that's why they are buying them by the tens of thousands. 

 

But I don't think there are many schools that use stylus', but if they want one, they can use one on an iPad.

 

Obviously, you aren't part of the school systems that are already buying iPads by the tens of thousands and happy with them.

post #178 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

There is no advantage to them by using iBooks, an x86 Windows solution that can offer more capabilities.  For example, active stylus support is already an input method that the iPad cannot offer.  Assuming the pricing stays the same, a potential ThinkPad Tablet 3 would cost around $499 with a Wacom stylus.  Other Z3770 tablets range from $399 to $499.  There are even more industrialized solutions from companies such as Sharp or Fujitsu, both of their Z3770 tablets offer active stylus support, higher than retina resolution,  and a durable design (with dust/water proofing).

Obviously, you haven't noticed, but Windows 8 sucks.  it's not well accepted in the world.  It has less than 10% market acceptance within the Windows installed base after 1 year. Those are horrible numbers for Microsoft.   

 

Get a clue, Windows 8 sucks.  That's why iPads are kicking them senseless. 

 

Maybe you need to talk to several of the various school districts and ask them why they are using iPads and I'm sure they can show you their evaluation criteria. 

post #179 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

There is no advantage to them by using iBooks, an x86 Windows solution that can offer more capabilities.  For example, active stylus support is already an input method that the iPad cannot offer.  Assuming the pricing stays the same, a potential ThinkPad Tablet 3 would cost around $499 with a Wacom stylus.  Other Z3770 tablets range from $399 to $499.  There are even more industrialized solutions from companies such as Sharp or Fujitsu, both of their Z3770 tablets offer active stylus support, higher than retina resolution,  and a durable design (with dust/water proofing).

IBooks is an actual solution to give the student a media rich experience for reading text books.  Nothing like it exists on the Windows that I know of.  Obviously, you haven't used an iBook version of a text book.

 

Apple has always done a very good job in the Educational market and maybe they just don't like Windows and having a stylus isn't really a solution, it's just another input device option. 

 

Maybe these schools don't want to use some clone device.  Some people see no real benefit in that since there really isn't much going on with them.  Maybe they don't have the same level of support contracts and service levels.

 

Sharp, Fujitsu are kind of considered off brands, not major players in the tablet industry and probably don't have a very good educational sales force.  Sorry to burst your bubble, but you seem more fixated on a spec vs a solution.

 

Thinkpad 3 tablet?  Really?  Where is it?  I only see the Thinkpad 2 tablet on Lenovo's site.

 

I hate to say this because it sounds like you are just some lost Windows 8 user that thinks you can get away with going to Apple centric sites trying to change people from Apple to Microsoft (which seems to be happening in the other direction).


Go to a Windows centric site, you might have better luck with people actually paying attention to you thinking you know what you are talking about.


There are more people switching from Windows to Apple products than the other way around and I think that scares you because Microsoft is quickly losing it's monopoly and status of owning the world, which they aren't anymore.  If you look at ALL computing devices, (laptops, desktops, tablets, and smartphones) Apple has about 20+% and growing.  Android has about the same, Linux has increasingly going after the server market and some desktops/laptops, and Windows is losing marketshare quickly and I think Windows users are flat out scared out of their minds as they don't want to lose control over their majority status as they are becoming more of a minority.  Oh well.  I can't change that.

 

Also, maybe these schools systems want to use products from a company that has excellent financial status.  I know in a lot of industries/companies, they look at financial aspects of the vendors as part of their evaluation.  Lenovo, Sharp, and Fujitsu aren't doing well in that area as compared to Apple.     Fujitsu lost money in 2013, Sharp is barely hanging on by a thread (even Apple is helping bailing them out) and Lenovo makes about 1% Net Profit margin.   Apple probably makes more profits in a week than Lenovo does in a year.  Neither are any of the other PC mfg for that matter.

post #180 of 181
Once again , Microsoft fucks up. And also HP.


"We're not blaming anyone" for the failures"
*facepalm* , HP should refund all money paid for the tablets.

"Gleeson told the Independent that the HP tablets were chosen after an 18-month investigatory period"

18 month investigation period? Well, im not sure who was doing the investigation, but i can give you better advice , after a 1 minute investigation. You should use laptops, and let students pick the model, this would also save on costs becouse alot of students already have laptops.
post #181 of 181

"He called out the ElitePad's 64-gigabyte memory as especially impressive."  - Well, whoever said this clearly has no knowlege of computers. You can use a NAS or some cloud storage solution  instead.

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