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Irish school's attempt to replace books with HP tablets results in 'unmitigated disaster' - Page 2

post #41 of 181

The $741 likely included warranty and support for 2-3 years.  So don't forget to add AppleCare.

 

Clearly, the IT department did everything it could NOT to get iPads (I would assume because of anti-apple bias).  In the end, they got what they deserved and planned.

 

iPads for schools are not cheap and don't get huge volume discounts from Apple, but have not made the news like this.  Kids deleting a file to surf the net, which is what happened in the only iPad-centric school roll-out where it did not go as planned, is not an unmitigated disaster (yeah, google it).

post #42 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

Obviously, the school wanted a full-featured PC for their students so they can do word processing while multitasking with other apps to do research simultaneously.

This can't be done with an iPad. The actual competing Apple product is the MacBook Air.

The HP ElitePad is an Intel 1.8 Ghz Atom-based Laptop PC with Touch Screen, 2 GB RAM, 64 GB storage WITHOUT the keyboard, running Windows 8. It sells for $600 on Amazon.com. Once you add the case, docking station, and keyboard and mouse, it will end up costing at least $741 - as the article noted.

THE KEY IS THAT THE HP ELITEPAD IS A CHEAP LAPTOP PC - ESSENTIALLY A NETBOOK.

No wonder the HP ElitePad failed and was an "unmitigated disaster".

Apple doesn't do this type of junk.

The primary Apple competing product is the MacBook Air, costing $950.

I don't know if anyone here has ever done work in education, primarily K-12. I have, here in NYC. Beginning when my daughter began kindergarten, Sept 1996, I was a consultant to the NYCBOE, in technology. I received free lunches, sometimes, as payment. I took part in writing the five year technology plans. I also went around to schools with a couple of others on several committees to find out how schools were doing technologically. We would then make recommendations. I would, as part of my "job", recommend equipment, software and services, as well as, sometimes, training the technicians servicing the technology base, mostly computers, servers, routers, etc.

I bring this up because I'd like to make some comments about what computing is in education. It's is NOT what computing is elsewhere. In K-8, it's completely different. In high school, it comes closer.

After teaching children what they need to know in order to operate a computer by the amount they need to, the rest is educational software. This is written by speciality companies. It is NOT Office, iWork, etc. the software must correspond, and adhere to, the curriculum the school system is currently teaching. It isn't random software bought willy nilly from Newegg, or now, the App Store. Representatives from those companies come in and make presentations. After software is purchased, they often come in and show how to use it.

For a computer, when purchased, there is almost always restrictions on its use. In the case of NYC, there is software that is installed from the BOE that requires a password, and overrides, by qualified personnel, not usually a teacher, that is required to be entered before use. This software prevents most of the curious, and mischievous, actions students always seem to attempt. It also limits browsing to so called "safe sites", or white listed sites for really young children. It isn't prefect, of course, but it's an attempt to do the right thing.

There is software purchased, and installed on each computer from purchase. This software raises the price of that computer above list pricing, which is why prices always seem to be so high. Professional educational software is not cheap. You won't find it for $5 a seat. And interestingly enough, though I can't say it's still true since I stopped doing this here, all Apple products, as well as every other product, can only be bought through approved vendors. You can't just go to a store and buy something. Apple products, here in NYC, ironically have only been available for purchase through the BOE's one approved computer hardware vendor—DELL! As I say, I don't know if this is still true, since I've been out of this since my daughter graduated 4 years ago. But I would be surprised if it wasn't.

I can also say, truthfully, that the Dell computer labs were down about 40% of the time, and the Mac labs, less than 10%. One reason is that the computer teachers, were much more easily able to fix a glitch with the Mac labs than with the Dell labs. With the Dell labs! a call had to be made to send a tech in to fix the problem, which could take up to a week.

The macs also tended to fail less often, though for the early iMacs, the company hired to make the steel security straps that fit over the computer, locking them to the desks! caused failures, as they covered the vent at the top of the machine. When I first saw those I went ballistic! It took two whole years to get the design changed. Such is the life in a big bureaucracy.
post #43 of 181

I agree, the competing product is the MBA.

 

Buy 5,000 MBAs for your school today, though, and they'll come with iWork'13, which will likely break any Keynote and Numbers teaching material that you've developed over the past few years.  Don't worry though, Apple promises that you will have functional software in 6 months.  You didn't plan to teach the kids anything till summer anyway, did ya?

post #44 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post
 

Correct!

 

The largest PC manufacturer in the world and what do they make? 

 

I think that's Lenovo, now actually. But I agree HP is even more irrelevant than Dell when it comes to creating interesting consumer products. Remember when they destroyed Palm, webOS, and consumer good will in a perfect firestorm of mismanagement and corporate shortsightedness? Almost makes me weep.

post #45 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

The $741 likely included warranty and support for 2-3 years.  So don't forget to add AppleCare.

Clearly, the IT department did everything it could NOT to get iPads (I would assume because of anti-apple bias).  In the end, they got what they deserved and planned.

iPads for schools are not cheap and don't get huge volume discounts from Apple, but have not made the news like this.  Kids deleting a file to surf the net, which is what happened in the only iPad-centric school roll-out where it did not go as planned, is not an unmitigated disaster (yeah, google it).

I don't know how they handled warranty service there, or purchasing, but here, in NYC, we didn't use AppleCare. Service was the responsibility of the vendor. This is also a part of the contract, but it was not added to the cost of the individual machine. It was a separate portion of the contract, and was costed by the number of seats, whether Windows or Mac.
post #46 of 181

"refusing to power on, going to sleep unexpectedly, and experiencing hardware failures involving the devices' logic boards"   sounds like a h/w and potentially a s/w issue.  And they aren't blaming anyone?  Really?   If had bought a bunch of tablets or computers and they won't turn on, go to sleep unexpectedly and have logic boards fail, I can think of at least one or two companies to blame.

 

Now, if the students aren't plugging the devices in to charge the battery, i can understand why they might not power on or go do sleep due to lack of enough battery power, but logic boards failing?

 

And these are HP?  I would expect this happening on the lower end cheaper products on the market, but I always thought HP was to have at least decent products from a standpoint of at least turning on and working reliably.

 

Oh well.

post #47 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Apple isn't perfect either. Remember the recent debacle in Los angles where students were bypassing g the security in their iPads? That initiative has been put on hold because of that. Hopefully, they will be able to fix that issue. 640,000 iPads were supposed to be bought for this. If they can't fix the security, that entire sale is in jeopardy.

Fortunately, there have been no widespread reports around the country, or anywhere else, of widespread hardware failures, or other kinds of OS or software problems.

I'm wondering if the last iOS update fixed that problem, if it didn't, I would assume that Apple has that as a high priority of a fix.

post #48 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

I agree, the competing product is the MBA.

Buy 5,000 MBAs for your school today, though, and they'll come with iWork'13, which will likely break any Keynote and Numbers teaching material that you've developed over the past few years.  Don't worry though, Apple promises that you will have functional software in 6 months.  You didn't plan to teach the kids anything till summer anyway, did ya?

Actually, last quarter, about half the computers bought in education, K-12, were iPads. The rest were about evenly apportioned between MacBooks and Dell laptops, with the rest being mostly iMacs, and Windows towers.
post #49 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by pojekboy View Post
 

 

I think that's Lenovo, now actually. But I agree HP is even more irrelevant than Dell when it comes to creating interesting consumer products. Remember when they destroyed Palm, webOS, and consumer good will in a perfect firestorm of mismanagement and corporate shortsightedness? Almost makes me weep.

Yep, you're right....but it sounded better using HP! :)

 

I do remember...HP paid a billion dollars for WebOS and it could've been their entree into mobile...they really blew it.

 

HP is following IBM's lead and going into "business services" instead of hardware. In other words, "talking crap" is a lot easier to sell than having to create crap and then sell it! 

 

Like Iacocco said, "Pretty soon, we'll all be selling insurance to each other!"

post #50 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I'm wondering if the last iOS update fixed that problem, if it didn't, I would assume that Apple has that as a high priority of a fix.

I don't know what it is. Is it a problem with Apple software, or possibly, third party MDM services, if they are using that.
post #51 of 181

Trouble is, many of these procurements start out with a naive set of requirements. 'Must run MS Word' is a likely candidate, both iOS and Android would have ranked lower in that set of circumstances  :-(

 

Shame for the kids though, 'twas a good idea in principle.

OS X and iOS user

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OS X and iOS user

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post #52 of 181
Have you heard the joke about the Irishman (called Paddy) who bought ElitePads instead iPads?
Edited by GTR - 11/21/13 at 10:59am
post #53 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Yep, you're right....but it sounded better using HP! 1smile.gif

I do remember...HP paid a billion dollars for WebOS and it could've been their entree into mobile...they really blew it.

HP is following IBM's lead and going into "business services" instead of hardware. In other words, "talking crap" is a lot easier to sell than having to create crap and then sell it! 

Like Iacocco said, "Pretty soon, we'll all be selling insurance to each other!"

I believe that hp is still the biggest.

But I am tired of people blaming them for the failure of WebOS. That was dead before they bought it. They had no chance to revive it. No one could have. That like all the attempts to revive the Amiga! or the Atari ST, or other dead systems. Once the public rejects it, it's dead. There's just a very small number of people who make a fuss over it.
post #54 of 181
Perhaps instead of jumping on brand bashing it's the actual delivery system that creates a barrier between people's enjoy ent of books. People love the smell and touch of paper, it becomes much more of a sense pleasure.

iPad air, mini, galaxy tab, kindle whatever will never replace books for some people
post #55 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I believe that hp is still the biggest.

But I am tired of people blaming them for the failure of WebOS. That was dead before they bought it. They had no chance to revive it. No one could have. That like all the attempts to revive the Amiga! or the Atari ST, or other dead systems. Once the public rejects it, it's dead. There's just a very small number of people who make a fuss over it.

I take your point, Mel...but everything I read at the time was that WebOs had the potential to be a contender in the mobile space. Perhaps it would have taken a lot of hard work on the part HP and that they were incapable of doing it or maybe nothing could compete with iOS. But it still was rather stupid of HP to buy it in the first place. No? :)

 

And rather stupid for a tech company not to compete in the fastest growing segment...Mobile. 

 

Best

post #56 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by pojekboy View Post

Why didn't they just get Surface RT tablets? It's ARM so you have none of the cruft of the x86 version and it comes with Office as part of the package.

If the schools still show educational videos on Betamax, then perhaps they won't mind using Windows RT.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #57 of 181

From Mountrath Community School to Apple's Irish HQ at Hollyhill Industrial Estate, Cork, Ireland is 165km or a two hour journey by car, at a total fuel cost of €25.

 

I wonder if the school governors and IT staff bothered to visit Apple -- I've heard that in the UK, Microsoft likes to offer certain incentives for using MS products (AFAIK, the UK government and the BBC have such incentive agreements with MS).

post #58 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 

 

A 64GB iPad 2 is not available in Ireland.  It only comes in 16GB for the equivalent of $526.  A 64GB iPad air costs $904.

 

My daughter's traditional paper-based books cost me the equivalent of $447.  So even if the Principal in question had opted for the iPad 2 - it and the books would have cost just shy of $1000.

 

But the real reason the Principal and iPad advocates are mentally compromised is .... wait for it .... there are no e-book versions of the text books that comprise the Irish secondary curriculum as far as I am aware of.  I am scratching my head over the original article as it seems far-fetched to me, given the lack of the most basic requirement: e-books.

 

But yes, a 32GB iPad air would have been a no-brainer if you were to go down this route, but it and the HP device are both way too expensive given the poverty a large percentage of Irish Parents face where even buying the conventional text books is a huge financial strain.

This is the comment I was waiting for from someone in Ireland who has to deal with this type of mess. No textbook e-books available so why get tablets/laptops to replace them. These don't magically appear, especially for Windows systems.

post #59 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post
 

Correct!

 

The largest PC manufacturer in the world and what do they make? Crappy tablets! The largest software company in the world and what do they make? Crappy software!

 

And they wonder why they had problems! Ugh! :)

the 'conventional wisdom' is too always buy the biggest 'market' leader in a 'open' market.  They will have the resources to fix the problems, and then you can always move to the 2nd or 3rd place (Dell? Lenovo?) with a 'HP is in... but we want an alternative source,' to get a great deal and boot HP out.   It's a game we all loved to play back in the day.

 

But... here the issue is Win8, which isn't crappy SW per se..., just a crappy experience on a tablet.  The crappy SW part is marriage of new bios, drivers, internal chips, to the OS low level code.   This takes a year or 2 (or 3... why do you think Corps are just now migrating to Win7 en masse?... because they had to test everything out).

 

But, the issue here was a silly set of requirements ('an informed decision'  HA!  Someone in the school either had a excel spreadsheet with embedded ActiveX and VBA in it and it wouldn't port to Numbers.... or a testing SW program written in Word/VBA) Macros... therefore MS Word for Windows was a requirement), vs a long term goal to move to a 'e-learning platform' independent of the OS, and built in Apps.

 

The Allie's appeasement of Nazi Germany was 'an informed decision' ;-).   We all saw how well that worked out...
post #60 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I take your point, Mel...but everything I read at the time was that WebOs had the potential to be a contender in the mobile space. Perhaps it would have taken a lot of hard work on the part HP and that they were incapable of doing it or maybe nothing could compete with iOS. But it still was rather stupid of HP to buy it in the first place. No? 1smile.gif

And rather stupid for a tech company not to compete in the fastest growing segment...Mobile. 

Best

WebOS never had a chance. While the tech writers just loved it, they love everything. It's their job to love everything . But WebOS was poorly designed, and poorly advertised.

Seriously, how many people walking into a phone store, and picking up a Pre, would know that in order to do some important, basic functions, you needed to swipe BELOW the screen, on the plastic case? Not many. There were a number of gotchas, in the system, like that one. In order to use WebOS, you needed to know how to use it before you used it. In other words, you needed the manual.

I had an AT&T account at the time, and went into the AT&T store here, in my neighborhood fairly often. I hung out for a bit of time, here and there, surreptitiously watching people examine phones. What I found was interesting. Most people who bought iPhones went in and directly said that they wanted an iPhone, and bought one. Most others looked first at the iPhones, and maybe bought one, and then at the Palm Pre for just a few moments before moving on to the Android phones. People would pick it up, stare at it, poke once or twice at the screen, and then put it down. I've seen the same behaviors with Win Phone.

Hp bought what they thought was a pretty much finished OS. They had no real way of knowing what was going on at Palm.

It was like Google buying Motorola because they were told by them that their 17,000 patents were strong, and could be used against Apple and Microsoft. That was wrong too, and it cost Google $12.5 billion for a failing company that was valued at $6.5 billion the same day they made the purchase. At some point, even though they don't want to do it, most of that price will need to be written off.

A major problem when hp bought Palm was that WebOS turned out to be far from finished. It was working, but there were major areas that were supposed to have been totally rewritten. There were lots of very basic problems with the OS, which is why apps didn't work too well with the hardware, because so much was abstracted because of the programming g model they used, that they were at a major disadvantage. That entire area was supposed to be thrown out and replaced.

But when hp got it, it had barely started. And then major people had left. There was no one left who really understood the OS. Hp never had a chance! They did try though. The tablet wasn't bad at all, just too expensive and heavy.
post #61 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


WebOS never had a chance. While the tech writers just loved it, they love everything. It's their job to love everything . But WebOS was poorly designed, and poorly advertised.

Seriously, how many people walking into a phone store, and picking up a Pre, would know that in order to do some important, basic functions, you needed to swipe BELOW the screen, on the plastic case? Not many. There were a number of gotchas, in the system, like that one. In order to use WebOS, you needed to know how to use it before you used it. In other words, you needed the manual.

I had an AT&T account at the time, and went into the AT&T store here, in my neighborhood fairly often. I hung out for a bit of time, here and there, surreptitiously watching people examine phones. What I found was interesting. Most people who bought iPhones went in and directly said that they wanted an iPhone, and bought one. Most others looked first at the iPhones, and maybe bought one, and then at the Palm Pre for just a few moments before moving on to the Android phones. People would pick it up, stare at it, poke once or twice at the screen, and then put it down. I've seen the same behaviors with Win Phone.

Hp bought what they thought was a pretty much finished OS. They had no real way of knowing what was going on at Palm.

It was like Google buying Motorola because they were told by them that their 17,000 patents were strong, and could be used against Apple and Microsoft. That was wrong too, and it cost Google $12.5 billion for a failing company that was valued at $6.5 billion the same day they made the purchase. At some point, even though they don't want to do it, most of that price will need to be written off.

A major problem when hp bought Palm was that WebOS turned out to be far from finished. It was working, but there were major areas that were supposed to have been totally rewritten. There were lots of very basic problems with the OS, which is why apps didn't work too well with the hardware, because so much was abstracted because of the programming g model they used, that they were at a major disadvantage. That entire area was supposed to be thrown out and replaced.

But when hp got it, it had barely started. And then major people had left. There was no one left who really understood the OS. Hp never had a chance! They did try though. The tablet wasn't bad at all, just too expensive and heavy.

Good points, Mel. I do remember reading about the "brain drain" at Palm. And I remember WebOS was far from finished. 

 

OK, you've changed my mind. HP never had a chance! :)

post #62 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman View Post

...If all they need to do is read an ebook then nearly any tablet will suffice, and there are many cheaper including some from Apple. ...

No., an iPad can do almost all a laptop can, only sometimes better.
You can browse the web better than on a computer, you can create and edit text documents, spreadsheets and presentations (for example using the free apps Apple includes with each device), you can create and edit movies and sound projects (also using the free apps Apple includes) and can continue working on them on another computer or in the cloud.
You also have a limitless choice of other productivity apps, for example creative apps and endless games, not to mention email and all kinds of connectivity apps, etc. etc. etc.
If you ignore that, something is seriously wrong with you or you have an hidden agenda.
post #63 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

WebOS never had a chance. While the tech writers just loved it, they love everything. It's their job to love everything . But WebOS was poorly designed, and poorly advertised.

Seriously, how many people walking into a phone store, and picking up a Pre, would know that in order to do some important, basic functions, you needed to swipe BELOW the screen, on the plastic case? Not many. There were a number of gotchas, in the system, like that one. In order to use WebOS, you needed to know how to use it before you used it. In other words, you needed the manual.

I had an AT&T account at the time, and went into the AT&T store here, in my neighborhood fairly often. I hung out for a bit of time, here and there, surreptitiously watching people examine phones. What I found was interesting. Most people who bought iPhones went in and directly said that they wanted an iPhone, and bought one. Most others looked first at the iPhones, and maybe bought one, and then at the Palm Pre for just a few moments before moving on to the Android phones. People would pick it up, stare at it, poke once or twice at the screen, and then put it down. I've seen the same behaviors with Win Phone.

Hp bought what they thought was a pretty much finished OS. They had no real way of knowing what was going on at Palm.

It was like Google buying Motorola because they were told by them that their 17,000 patents were strong, and could be used against Apple and Microsoft. That was wrong too, and it cost Google $12.5 billion for a failing company that was valued at $6.5 billion the same day they made the purchase. At some point, even though they don't want to do it, most of that price will need to be written off.

A major problem when hp bought Palm was that WebOS turned out to be far from finished. It was working, but there were major areas that were supposed to have been totally rewritten. There were lots of very basic problems with the OS, which is why apps didn't work too well with the hardware, because so much was abstracted because of the programming g model they used, that they were at a major disadvantage. That entire area was supposed to be thrown out and replaced.

But when hp got it, it had barely started. And then major people had left. There was no one left who really understood the OS. Hp never had a chance! They did try though. The tablet wasn't bad at all, just too expensive and heavy.

Here' some articles that show where the problems lie. Most people aren't aware of any of this, and so state things that aren't even close to the truth:

http://www.informationweek.com/mobile/webos-failure-palm-insiders-blame-management/d/d-id/1102025?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem

So the fanboys yell and shout about how Hp killed it, but that's what fanboys do when their love leaves them.
post #64 of 181
As one commenter said, they should have gotten iPads. Case closed. HP just buys the parts and then throws their name on sh**! The pc has 5000 patents all owned by MS so the pc is literally a MS universe and MS can't make money on pcs unless them POS break up periodically.
Planned obsolescence. I go to FIU here in Florida and everywhere there is a pc there is a f****** problem. Always. BS is always down for some effing reason. On the other hand everywhere there is an Apple there is a line out the door to use it.
post #65 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

the 'conventional wisdom' is too always buy the biggest 'market' leader in a 'open' market.  They will have the resources to fix the problems, and then you can always move to the 2nd or 3rd place (Dell? Lenovo?) with a 'HP is in... but we want an alternative source,' to get a great deal and boot HP out.   It's a game we all loved to play back in the day.

 

But... here the issue is Win8, which isn't crappy SW per se..., just a crappy experience on a tablet.  The crappy SW part is marriage of new bios, drivers, internal chips, to the OS low level code.   This takes a year or 2 (or 3... why do you think Corps are just now migrating to Win7 en masse?... because they had to test everything out).

 

But, the issue here was a silly set of requirements ('an informed decision'  HA!  Someone in the school either had a excel spreadsheet with embedded ActiveX and VBA in it and it wouldn't port to Numbers.... or a testing SW program written in Word/VBA) Macros... therefore MS Word for Windows was a requirement), vs a long term goal to move to a 'e-learning platform' independent of the OS, and built in Apps.

 

The Allie's appeasement of Nazi Germany was 'an informed decision' ;-).   We all saw how well that worked out...

I hear you Geoff, perhaps my original post was a bit too flippant, but I know from firsthand experience, windows and HP, Dell, etc., is on the whole  an inferior experience made more problematic by trying to take the Windows beast mobile. :)

 

I like your theory that it was b/c someone on the decision team had their stuff in  Excel. That seems plausible. :)

 

Best


Edited by christopher126 - 11/21/13 at 11:15am
post #66 of 181
Oops we goofed .....

Any refunds - due or coming - probably not .... The tech people will attempt to find a solution, all the while, the tablets sit and collect dust .....

I can see a class action lawsuit coming against MSFT and / or HP .....

Shoulda - woulda - coulda had an iPad for about the same money .... Silly Rabbits!
post #67 of 181

Good point.  MS is probably, no absolutely, the most comprehensive WP on earth.  But are all of it's features necessary for a school kid?  They really can get by on the many free WP available for download.  I like my MS Office Pro, but I can easily get by on one of these free WP's on a tablet or cell phone.  Word truly is a beauty on a desk top.

post #68 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Here' some articles that show where the problems lie. Most people aren't aware of any of this, and so state things that aren't even close to the truth:

http://www.informationweek.com/mobile/webos-failure-palm-insiders-blame-management/d/d-id/1102025?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem

So the fanboys yell and shout about how Hp killed it, but that's what fanboys do when their love leaves them.

Thanks Mel. I just clicked and saved the links to read later today. I enjoy articles like this. :)

post #69 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


No., an iPad can do almost all a laptop can, only sometimes better.
You can browse the web better than on a computer, you can create and edit text documents, spreadsheets and presentations (for example using the free apps Apple includes with each device), you can create and edit movies and sound projects (also using the free apps Apple includes) and can continue working on them on another computer or in the cloud.
You also have a limitless choice of other productivity apps, for example creative apps and endless games, not to mention email and all kinds of connectivity apps, etc. etc. etc.
If you ignore that, something is seriously wrong with you or you have an hidden agenda.

 

No.

post #70 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

Obviously, the school wanted a full-featured PC for their students so they can do word processing while multitasking with other apps to do research simultaneously.

This can't be done with an iPad. The actual competing Apple product is the MacBook Air. ...

Eh?, no, not at all. Multitasking is very easy, just push the home button twice.
post #71 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

No.

No what? He has no hidden agenda or hasn't a serious problem?
Or is it that you can't use an iPad? There is no shame in that, sometimes people get left behind...
I know of people who refused to understand that the transistor would replace the vacuum tube.
post #72 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

For a minute there I thought this was my junior high school teacher describing me.

Aaaahhh sweety, I'm sure you were loved by your teachers as much as we adore you here.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #73 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

He called out the ElitePad's 64-gigabyte memory as especially impressive.

take that, apple! 64 times the amount of memory in an ipad!
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

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post #74 of 181

Swapping paper books with tablet/ipad is not ready for prime time for another few years.  Yes, using tablet/ipad as an addition to paper books is already here. School can't afford to have an IT department to deal with all the tablet/ipad problems.  Maybe schools near Apple stores can just gather all the problem ipads and shuttle to the Apple stores for support.  

 

And then, how do you deal with accidental damage by the students?  Books are cheap to replace.  And schools will buy new paper books every 3-4 years.  The cost of buying new tablet/ipads every 3-4 years is a huge cost to the school.  Even if the hardware can last that long with all the student abuses, how about the batteries?  Replacing new batteries is costly.  

 

And there needs to be an tablet/ipad specifically designed for education use.  And school needs to have a tight control on all the devices.  Read-only mode for students (students shouldn't make marks on the school's paper books anyway)  and only school servers can update the content.  And the tablet/ipads for education should be cheap enough for replacement or repair.

 

Anyway, for now, swapping paper books with tablet/ipads can only be an option for students and the students should buy their own devices and be responsible for their own devices.  

post #75 of 181
I haven't used the HP Tablet yet, shame that it didn't work out for them, schools don't have the money to make such bad decisions, I'm sure HP will rectify the problem, hopefully. Why did they go for such an expansive model, Dell or Asus would have been cheaper. I'm still dubious about using tablets in a classroom, a good old hard back worked for me and I see no reason why it shouldn't for my children. My daughters school is trying out Chromebooks and iPads in the classroom but since it's a private school the parents get the bill for the hardware. I like the Chromebooks for school as they can only access the schools wifi while they are their and only use websites that exist on the schools intranet. Creating custom apps is also a lot easier then compiling in C++. Though when we bought one for my daughter she tricked is to getting the LTE version, I should have read the letter from the school better. Kids can still install games and other software on their iPads, even though the school has given the responsibility to the parents to prevent unwanted software, we don't. I can password protect my child's iPad but like most kids nowadays, they know more about these devices then we do and will just bipass whatever security I implement. I'm so proud, I mean bad children, no no.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #76 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


No what? He has no hidden agenda or hasn't a serious problem?
Or is it that you can't use an iPad? There is no shame in that, sometimes people get left behind...
I know of people who refused to understand that the transistor would replace the vacuum tube.


I clearly highlighted in bold the bit you got wrong.

post #77 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthW View Post

That seems really expensive, $741? Isn't an iPad cheaper? Can't see how this school board went with such an expensive, unproven tablet. iPad is cheaper and proven in education. Doesn't say much for the school board. And how can they not blame anyone? It's obviously HP & MS fault.

Enterprise would likely include support and maintenance, plus the currency translation and whatever VAT etc. taxes they might have had to pay: but my bet is on the maintenance and support, plus included software licenses as needed.

 

We've got an instrument whose yearly maintenance contract is $37K, when a new one costs maybe $250K… (we bought it refurbed for $100k) so say a two to three year maintenance commitment and all of a sudden the base price of the unit takes a big jump….

post #78 of 181

As a person who works in two K-12 school districts as a technician, and runs the entire Apple Department in one of them, I'm confused by their choice of tablet. I do agree with some. Its like the districts IT department and/or administration staff wanted to keep it all Windows based and felt like the HP tablet was the best offer for the price paid and stay in a Windows environment. 

 

In my experience, you really need to test things out way in advance of doing something of this scale, even if you have to push the rollout date back. When you're spending $1.4 Million (2000 students x $700), you better damn well make sure you have your ducks in a row before placing any formal order. This means not only testing hardware, but also software to manage these devices. So get different hardware vendors involved (Apple, HP, Microsoft, Samsung, etc), then get different MDM solutions involved and see what works best. Not, whats more convenient for IT, what works best in the environment its placed in. Too many times, IT people are lazy bastards and always do what is best for them, and creates less work for them. I say this as an IT person myself. 

 

That being said, like Melgross said, education is different from everyday life in an IT world, even business life to some extent. You buy things based on what works for your curriculum for the price. Some people don't understand how things in Education work and they try to compare it to the business they supported, or home use, etc. They don't see how things have to work behind the scenes. Sometimes things are purchased based on grants that have specific directions of what to buy, how many, and what you can pay for it. Its not always what runs MS Office best or something like that. These days, virtually anything can do this using one program or another either on the device itself, or cloud based. Thats not what important. Whats most important is, does it consistently and appropriately serve the purpose of the curriculum it was meant for? This is not a one sized fits all thing either. What works for one district doesn't mean its always going to work for any other district. Different districts have different needs, different student body types, different budgets, and different curriculums. 

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

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Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

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post #79 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkwilder View Post
 

Good point.  MS is probably, no absolutely, the most comprehensive WP on earth.  But are all of it's features necessary for a school kid?  They really can get by on the many free WP available for download.  I like my MS Office Pro, but I can easily get by on one of these free WP's on a tablet or cell phone.  Word truly is a beauty on a desk top.

But then so was WordPerfect and it ran in a 64 KB space……. granted the spellchecker was on a separate 51/4 floppy…..

post #80 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


No., an iPad can do almost all a laptop can, only sometimes better.
You can browse the web better than on a computer, you can create and edit text documents, spreadsheets and presentations (for example using the free apps Apple includes with each device), you can create and edit movies and sound projects (also using the free apps Apple includes) and can continue working on them on another computer or in the cloud.
You also have a limitless choice of other productivity apps, for example creative apps and endless games, not to mention email and all kinds of connectivity apps, etc. etc. etc.
If you ignore that, something is seriously wrong with you or you have an hidden agenda.


Yes, there is one advantage of web browsing on an iPad than on a PC that every body should know:  if you encounter a word that you have not learned you can easily get its definition by touching it longer.  I am thrilled by this feature. 

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