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Apple, Inc. stock breaks $545 barrier as Samsung calls 'Crisis Awareness' meeting

post #1 of 180
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Apple continued to climb in trading today, closing at $545.96 and reaching a market cap of $491.22 billion as its chief rival Samsung plans for "Crisis Awareness" meeting involving 600 management staff members.



Since January, Apple has bought back 47 million shares that would today have otherwise added over $25.6 billion to the company's market cap that's now increasingly closer to the $500 billion valuation the company had at the beginning of 2013.

The company is still down dramatically from stock price highs of around $700 last September, which when counting those then-outstanding shares, would have given the company a peak valuation of $658 billion.

Today, Apple has fewer outstanding shares than at anytime since 2009, meaning that the stock price would have to go up dramatically to reach last year's valuation.

Cooling competition during the winter holidays



Apple's stock collapse last year was fueled by reports depicting Samsung's Galaxy S and Note models as growing without limit, and largely seen as having the potential to eat into Apple's iPhone 5 and iPad sales. However, those predictions failed to materialize. "As many people are foretelling that downfall of Samsung is coming, they are trying their best to prevent such crisis from happening"

Instead, Apple sold 150 million iPhones, mostly iPhone 5 models, over the fiscal year that ended in September, as well as 71 million iPads, a total of over 221 million premium smartphones and tablets.

Samsung fell far short of initial estimates that it would sell 100 million Galaxy S4 units, instead predicting an estimate of 100 million total Galaxy S and Note series phones, phablets and tablet devices through the end of the year.

Following an all day conference intended to assuage the concerns of investors and analysts earlier this month, Samsung has now scheduled a "management team gathering" to "discuss the strategies for next year."

According to a report by ZDNet Korea, "the main topic of the upcoming meeting is 'Crisis Awareness'. As many people are foretelling that downfall of Samsung is coming, they are trying their best to prevent such crisis from happening."

The company has invited 600 management staff members to attend the four day "global strategizing meeting" in mid December, leaving little room for error in devising a strategy for 2014.

Can't buy me love



Part of Samsung's plans for keeping pace with Apple have been an "aggressive marketing and promotion splurge," as noted in a report by Reuters.

Samsung is expected to spend $14 billion on ads and promotion this year, more than Google spent to acquire Motorola Mobility. That heavy spending "doesn't always bring the desired result," however, as "blatant product placement" in TV shows and film events have turned off audiences while having little impact on tarnishing Apple's image.Samsung is expected to spend $14 billion on ads and promotion this year, more than Google spent to acquire Motorola Mobility

The report cited Oh Jung-suk, an associate professor at the business school of Seoul National University, as saying, "Samsung's marketing is too much focused on projecting an image they aspire to: being innovative and ahead of the pack.

"They are failing to efficiently bridge the gap between the aspiration and how consumers actually respond to the campaign. It's got to be more aligned."

"Samsung spends a bigger chunk of its annual revenue on advertising and promotion than any other of the world's top-20 companies by sales - 5.4 percent, according to Thomson Reuters data," the report noted. "Apple spends just 0.6 percent, and General Motors 3.5 percent."

The report also cited Horace Dediu of Asymco as stating, "the stronger, more differentiated the product, the less it needs to be propped up by advertising."

Analyst Benedict Evans added, "the underlying problem is that Samsung has established itself as a dependable quality brand, not a differentiated or premium quality product, so it does best where it's not competing directly with Apple."
post #2 of 180
They won't ever get it. Not with a 4 day meeting, not with 600 managers, not by spending $14B on ads. It's simply not in their DNA.

But they're not doing bad. They have their insurance, shipping and other branches doing very well. and SE will simply continue to pump out stuff for people that think they are better off. This won't ever change, and that's probably a good thing.
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post #3 of 180
Samsung is and has always been full of shit. Garbage shipped en mass by a production driven company with no outlet for what they churn out. Most devices are given away as gift with purchase.
Once again; the truth comes out and all you corrupt butt heads are left holding their bag of crap.
SHIPMENTS FOR SAMSUNG HAVE NO CORRELATION TO DEMAND OR SALES.
post #4 of 180
Prepare the cargo ship back to Korea. They might even sink it to collect on the insurance; which is the only way they could make a profit.
Crisis at Samsung is an understatement.
Bye Bye Samsuck.
post #5 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

They won't ever get it. Not with a 4 day meeting, not with 600 managers, not by spending $14B on ads. It's simply not in their DNA.

But they're not doing bad. They have their insurance, shipping and other branches doing very well. and SE will simply continue to pump out stuff for people that think they are better off. This won't ever change, and that's probably a good thing.

Maybe not, but they also seem to be the only company that is actually trying to figure out how and why Apple has the following it has. That as unique among Android-based vendors as Apple is among smartphone vendors.

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post #6 of 180
I'd hardly describe Samsung as a company in crisis. They essentially own the Android market & are highly successful in other electronic areas.

Their exponential growth had to slow eventually as it was all at the expense of other Andriod handset manufacturers & there isn't really any market share to take any more.
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post #7 of 180
So the old saying "there are only two companies making money in mobile... Apple and Samsung" is no longer true?

I didn't think Samsung was doing that bad. 1eek.gif
post #8 of 180

Panic mode in Seoul. Now, I wonder why Slappy always told me it was Apple there was Doomed? Maybe I misunderstood something.

Happy Thanksgiving to you all in the States.

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post #9 of 180
Samsung has little to worry about.

But apple has some things to worry about. This Tim Cook Guy doesn't seem to have the same magic.
post #10 of 180

That last paragraph sums it up pretty nicely.

post #11 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

Samsung has little to worry about.

But apple has some things to worry about. This Tim Cook Guy doesn't seem to have the same magic.

I hope you're being sarcastic. Don't want to add someone to my block list during the holidays.

I thought Apple is doomed?! What's the narrative this week, NYT?
post #12 of 180
Crisis Awareness? Yeah!!!!!!! I wonder if they are going to lay people off and if so, what aspects of their business will be affected the most.
post #13 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

Samsung has little to worry about.

But apple has some things to worry about. This Tim Cook Guy doesn't seem to have the same magic.

I'm very pleased with all the HW releases since Tim Cook has taken over.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #14 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm very pleased with all the HW releases since Tim Cook has taken over.
Good to have you back Solips! You just couldn't stay away eh? 1smile.gif

Happy Thanksgiving to you!
post #15 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

Samsung has little to worry about.

But apple has some things to worry about. This Tim Cook Guy doesn't seem to have the same magic.

I'm very pleased with all the HW releases since Tim Cook has taken over.

System and application software too!
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post #16 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

System and application software too!

I certainly do like that iOS 7 was radically modernized as well as many changes with Mac OS X (which Messages was flatter like iOS) but my favorite changes are all in the new MBPs with IPS Retina displays, the eschew the ODD and HDD in favour of a PCIe-SSD. I'm not saying these wouldn't have happened under Jobs but they definitely happened under Tim Cook.

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post #17 of 180
Quote:
Samsung is expected to spend $14 billion on ads and promotion this year

 

And they say Apple is all hype and marketing... :rolleyes: That's an obscene amount to spend on fluff.

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post #18 of 180
Regarding the buyback, part of the reason that the price is up is that there are fewer shares outstanding. Theoretically, the market cap should be the same regardless of the number of shares outstanding, so if the buybacks hadn't happened, Apple's stock price would be a bit lower (adjusted for the cash that Apple paid for the shares it bought back). So if it paid $23.5 billion for the 47 million shares it bought back ($500/share), in theory if it hadn't done the buyback, today its market cap would be $514.7 billion instead of $491.2 billion, but shares outstanding would be 946,736,000 instead of about 899,736,000, implying a price of about $543.65. It's not exact (as the market is always a bit imprecise), but that's the general principle.
post #19 of 180

Samsung "Copied early".

 

They don't need to keep copying now that they have a head start on the other Android OEM"s, but they are going to find that their margins are going to get hit very badly with those kinds of marketing costs.

 

That and aggressive Chinese OEM's are going to take the lower end market.

post #20 of 180

Classy buddy.

post #21 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Crisis Awareness? Yeah!!!!!!! I wonder if they are going to lay people off and if so, what aspects of their business will be affected the most.

 

Classy buddy.

post #22 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

Samsung has little to worry about.

But apple has some things to worry about. This Tim Cook Guy doesn't seem to have the same magic.

Apple hasn't ever used or relied on magic, so of course, Tim wouldn't have any.

 

Competitors might think that.

post #23 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circa View Post
 

 

Classy buddy.

I can't help it if Samsung is in a state of crisis. Usually, when they pull in a bunch of people within the organization and they are in "crisis mode", it usually signifies impending lay offs, instead of the dipstick members of upper management simply stepping down and admitting incompetence.

 

FYI, Samsung makes too many products and that's part of their CRISIS.   The same thing has been happening at HP and other companies that make too many different products to satisfy the people that don't spend any money on products. It's what happens when a business isn't run properly.

 

is that MY problem?  NO.  it's THEIRS.

 

Do you think I'm going to lose any sleep over THEIR crisis?  NOPE.

 

Upper management is usually where the problem starts.

post #24 of 180
Samsung could pay more than half of my country's external debt with what it spends on advertising. Ok...
post #25 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post

Samsung could pay more than half of my country's external debt with what it spends on advertising. Ok...

But they aren't going to pay your country's external debt because that doesn't help Samsung sell products.  

post #26 of 180

"According to a report by ZDNet Korea, "the main topic of the upcoming meeting is 'Crisis Awareness'. As many people are foretelling that downfall of Samsung is coming, they are trying their best to prevent such crisis from happening."

 

I guess only 1 option is left. They need to buy their own phones like Federal Reserve is buying US Bonds :lol: 

post #27 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Suozzi View Post

Samsung is and has always been full of shit. Garbage shipped en mass by a production driven company with no outlet for what they churn out. Most devices are given away as gift with purchase.
Once again; the truth comes out and all you corrupt butt heads are left holding their bag of crap.
SHIPMENTS FOR SAMSUNG HAVE NO CORRELATION TO DEMAND OR SALES.

Um, of course shipments have a correlation to demand and sales.  There may be some short term anomalies, but overall, Samsung ships what its distributors and retailers order and sell.  

post #28 of 180
Apple is always doOOOOOMed

it's the best story for computing medias since 1982.
post #29 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Suozzi View Post

Prepare the cargo ship back to Korea. They might even sink it to collect on the insurance; which is the only way they could make a profit.
Crisis at Samsung is an understatement.
Bye Bye Samsuck.

Wow.  I have no love for Samsung either, but these are some pretty outrageous statements.  Samsung doesn't need to sink any ships to make a profit.  They are actually making almost exactly as much profit in smartphones as Apple is.  

post #30 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

But they aren't going to pay your country's external debt because that doesn't help Samsung sell products.  

Of course not. I was just trying to compare it to something "big" outside of the normal numbers that we are used to see from these companies. 14b is not much to Samsung or Apple, but compared to things outside of that context it is just amazing.
post #31 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post


Of course not. I was just trying to compare it to something "big" outside of the normal numbers that we are used to see from these companies. 14b is not much to Samsung or Apple, but compared to things outside of that context it is just amazing.

$12 or $14 Billion to spend on advertising is a LOT of money in anyone's book.  Some companies will never even see that much money in gross revenues for the life of the company.

 

But as time goes on, there are more ways they have to spend money on to get attention.  The old methods of radio, TV, print ads is augmented by internet ads, YouTube ads, in-app ads, etc., plus the ever increasing amount of revenues they need to get since they are both in new and growing markets.

 

At the rate they are going, pretty soon they will be hitting $1 Trillion in Gross sales.

post #32 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I'm very pleased with all the HW releases since Tim Cook has taken over.

 

Well, something seems missing.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

post #33 of 180

I've said it before: if you have to call yourself "the next big thing" then you're not it.

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post #34 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm very pleased with all the HW releases since Tim Cook has taken over.

Well, something seems missing.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

Well, for starters, you could start with where your finger is.

I have a guess. 1rolleyes.gif
post #35 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Suozzi View Post

Prepare the cargo ship back to Korea. They might even sink it to collect on the insurance; which is the only way they could make a profit.
Crisis at Samsung is an understatement.
Bye Bye Samsuck.

 

Meh.  It's difficult to say what the actual topic was about, at the Samsung Meeting... Primarily because the single report can't be validated or verified.  Unless you were there, its merely speculation.  Also, in Korea, words may not translate 100%; often they don't have the exact same meaning. So, it's anyone's guess.

 

That said, however.  It's important to note that Samsung's products account for 17% of all trade with the country of Korea, and millions of jobs in Korea.  I remember years ago Samsung had an internal corporate goal to be the next Sony.  For the most part, they accomplished that.

 

Apple, on the other hand, is more-or-less a retailer, whose products are made in China, and that work employs Chinese, and Lee Clow's ad agency. Still, apple's contribution to the US economy is sub-1% of the US GDP.   iPhone sales account for roughly 0.4% of the US GDP.

 

But that's the genius of Apple- virtually everything in the news about Apple is based on some sort of unverified rumor; and spun to Apple's benefit.   Peter Oppenheimer is the highest-paid CFO in the country, and it could probably benefit his health if he made some new friends, or took on a new hobby.


Edited by MalcolmTucker - 11/27/13 at 6:53pm
post #36 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Well, for starters, you could start with where your finger is.

I have a guess. 1rolleyes.gif

 

That's quite the ingenious response there; but I enjoy playing this game.  Do you need some hints, on where my finger is?

post #37 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

So the old saying "there are only two companies making money in mobile... Apple and Samsung" is no longer true?

I didn't think Samsung was doing that bad. 1eek.gif

They're not doing bad, they're just not doing as good as they thought they would. Moto, HTC, LG and the others would switch places with them in a heartbeat.
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post #38 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

Well, something seems missing.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

It's all in your head. The HW releases have been nothing short of phenomenal.
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post #39 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post


That's quite the ingenious response there; but I enjoy playing this game.  Do you need some hints, on where my finger is?

No. Thanks.

I am fairly certain now.
post #40 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Well, for starters, you could start with where your finger is.

I have a guess. 1rolleyes.gif

 

That's quite the ingenious response there; but I enjoy playing this game.  Do you need some hints, on where my finger is?

 

The problem is that you defined yourself unambiguously as a troll the moment that you chose to write "Apple, on the other hand, is more-or-less a retailer,...". That's just a pointless and stupid statement, and everything else you write is instantly devalued with it. If that was your goal then congratulations - effortlessly attained.

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