or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Should the UK leave the EU?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Should the UK leave the EU? - Page 2

Poll Results: Should the UK leave the EU?

Poll expired: Feb 1, 2014  
  • 61% (8)
    Yes
  • 38% (5)
    No
13 Total Votes  
post #41 of 109
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post
"A campaign for the European Union to become a "United States of Europe" will be the "best weapon against the Eurosceptics", one of Brussels' most senior officials has said.

 

If anyone actually thinks the point of the EU and the Euro wasn’t to create a federalized Europe, they were lying or kidding themselves.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #42 of 109
Yes, because there was only one, single, insidious point behind the whole European experiment from the beginning.

Have some nuance for once.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #43 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

If anyone actually thinks the point of the EU and the Euro wasn’t to create a federalized Europe, they were lying or kidding themselves.

Amazing that so many people are willing to throw away their sovereignty to a bunch of unelected commissioners with almost dictatorial powers, who are so few in number that countries share the same ones. That anybody thinks it can give away their nations power is shocking, especially when over half of the UK citizens don't want to. Who the hell do they think they are?
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #44 of 109
Citizens with a right to an opinion?

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #45 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Citizens with a right to an opinion?

That doesn't entitle you to give away a nations sovereignty.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #46 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Yes, because there was only one, single, insidious point behind the whole European experiment from the beginning.

 

I never said it was insidious. I said the point was a federalized Europe. Have some not strawmen for once.

 

You’re British, what do you think about it? I know you guys really like the pound, wink wink nudge nudge. What about federalization? Would her majesty really give up her rule? 

 

I read once that if Great Britain joined a federalized EU that Northern Ireland would secede and declare war, claiming to be the “true Britain”. :lol: 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #47 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That doesn't entitle you to give away a nations sovereignty.
I didn't realise that I could do that myself.

If the majority think that way then yes it does. If the parliament thinks that way then yes it does.

Why do you think you have the right to mandate a no vote?

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #48 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I never said it was insidious. I said the point was a federalized Europe. Have some not strawmen for once.
Well what was the point of saying it then, if not to imply that it was a nefarious goal?

Sure, some of the people at the dawn of the EU and the introduction of the Euro probably envisioned a federalised Europe. What of it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You’re British, what do you think about it? I know you guys really like the pound, wink wink nudge nudge. What about federalization? Would her majesty really give up her rule? 
Have no abiding love for the pound; it's currency, not a religion.
I'm not in favour of federalization, I prefer decentralisation generally with the central authority playing a support role rather than an authoritative one.
Her majesty would have no say. If she tried to influence the decision it would possibly be the end of the monarchy, or at the very least a parliamentary crisis.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #49 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


I didn't realise that I could do that myself.

If the majority think that way then yes it does. If the parliament thinks that way then yes it does.

Why do you think you have the right to mandate a no vote?

Wow, a simple majority in your eyes means voters can give away sovereignty over everything. It's mind blowing you'd think that. Labour and the Lib Dems won't even allow a referendum on leaving the EU. That's even nuttier.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #50 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

 

I'm not in favour of federalization, I prefer decentralisation generally with the central authority playing a support role rather than an authoritative one.

Then why hand over power from the UK?

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #51 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Well what was the point of saying it then, if not to imply that it was a nefarious goal?

 

“What was the point of stating the goal if not to imply such a goal is nefarious?”

Are you listening to yourself?

 
Her majesty would have no say.

 

And you guys wonder why we think a monarchy so queer. Your leader doesn’t even have a say in her own government! And you’ve roped the Commonwealth into making her their overarching leader, even!

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #52 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Wow, a simple majority in your eyes means voters can give away sovereignty over everything. It's mind blowing you'd think that. Labour and the Lib Dems won't even allow a referendum on leaving the EU. That's even nuttier.
"In my eyes"? That's how it works buddy, nothing to do with my eyes.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #53 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Then why hand over power from the UK?
You presuppose that I'm in favour of that.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #54 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

“What was the point of stating the goal if not to imply such a goal is nefarious?”

Are you listening to yourself?
Yes. Answer the question. What point were you trying to get across?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And you guys wonder why we think a monarchy so queer. Your leader doesn’t even have a say in her own government! And you’ve roped the Commonwealth into making her their overarching leader, even!
Stop saying "your" as if everyone in Britain thinks with one mind. Many over here are not in favour of the monarchy. The fact that the queen has no practicable power is basically the only reason the monarchy continues; she's a figurehead, not an actual leader.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #55 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Stop saying "your" as if everyone in Britain thinks with one mind. Many over here are not in favour of the monarchy. The fact that the queen has no practicable power is basically the only reason the monarchy continues; she's a figurehead, not an actual leader.

 

I didn’t think any of the republicans existed anymore, given their lack of doing anything about anything. That’s why I say “your”. Also because it’s an applicable word, given that it’s possessive.

 

Again, still don’t see why anyone would want a leader that doesn’t do anything.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #56 of 109
Again, figurehead, not leader. Like a club mascot.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #57 of 109
And in terms of actually getting rid of the monarchy, most republicans realise that it'd be difficult, since it's a massive change to loads of stuff, doesn't achieve all that much, since there's no power there anyway, and there's far bigger things to worry about when we have a cabinet full of insane right wingers.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #58 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Again, figurehead, not leader.

 

I know you don’t know much about Apple, but not knowing about your own leader is really sad.

 
Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary; born 21 April 1926[a]) is the constitutional monarch of 16 sovereign states, known as the Commonwealth realms, and their territories and dependencies, and head of the 53-member Commonwealth of Nations. She is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and, in some of her realms, carries the additional title of Defender of the Faith.

 

 

 

But… what IS a constitutional monarchy in the first place?

 
Constitutional monarchy is a form of government in which a king or queen acts as Head of State.

The ability to make and pass legislation resides with an elected Parliament, not with the Monarch.

As a system of government, constitutional monarchy separates the Head of State’s ceremonial and official duties from party politics.

A constitutional monarchy also provides stability, continuity and a national focus, as the Head of State remains the same even as governments change.

The Sovereign/Monarch governs according to the constitution - that is, according to rules, rather than according to his or her own free will. The United Kingdom does not have a written constitution which sets out the rights and duties of the Sovereign, they are established by conventions. These are non-statutory rules which can be just as binding as formal constitutional rules.

As a constitutional monarch, the Sovereign must remain politically neutral.

On almost all matters the Sovereign acts on the advice of ministers. However, the Sovereign retains an important political role as Head of State, formally appointing prime ministers, approving certain legislation and bestowing honours.

The Sovereign has other official roles to play such as Head of the Armed Forces.

 

 

Look, I’m 100% for you guys becoming a representative republic and dropping the monarchy entirely. But knowing what you’re dealing with now would let you know what you can change to.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #59 of 109
Hilarious how many levels of abstraction and alternate definitions you had to go through to try and prove a glib (and false) point.

The queen does not govern or have any practical authority over legislation or the executive. At one time the monarchy did, but aside from some ceremonial duties it no longer does. Rooting around in generic dictionary definitions will not change that.

Parliament legislates, the cabinet governs, the queen waves.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #60 of 109
The queen is the head of state of Canada and Australia too, are you suggesting that she "leads" them in some significant way?

What in hell's name is your point?

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #61 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


"In my eyes"? That's how it works buddy, nothing to do with my eyes.

You must think it's okay though. To deny it is absurd, as you want to stay in the EU.

 

If you want more self governance and want to stay in the EU, then your contradicting your own wishes. You can't have both. 

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #62 of 109
Thread Starter 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/14/secret-papers-royals-veto-bills

 

Royal connections and influence are bound to carry significant weight. They don't run the country by any means, but they're not slaves to it either.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #63 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Hilarious how many levels of abstraction and alternate definitions you had to go through to try and prove a glib (and false) point.

 

They’re the British definitions. But I guess I don’t know much about Airstrip One; they must not even use their own definitions over there.

 

The queen’s your leader. Your ruler. Your monarch. She’s in charge.

 
Parliament legislates, the cabinet governs, the queen waves. 

 

And an entire island of suckers falls for it.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #64 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They’re the British definitions.
I don't deny that. But the real world isn't dictionary perfect, and words have multiple meanings.

Nuance. Get some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But I guess I don’t know much about Airstrip One; they must not even use their own definitions over there.
Yes yes, the Orwellian reference is very clever. Stop it now though, it's annoying.

Or should I start referring to your homeland as the 12 colonies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The queen’s your leader. Your ruler. Your monarch. She’s in charge.
She does not lead, she does not rule, she is not in charge of anything beyond her staff and household.

You. Are. Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And an entire island of suckers falls for it.
Falls for what? The political process? I believe you have one of those in the USA too, and there's a lot more "suckers" over there "falling for it".

Or were you just being arbitrarily nationally offensive? Cowardly as usual.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #65 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/14/secret-papers-royals-veto-bills

Royal connections and influence are bound to carry significant weight. They don't run the country by any means, but they're not slaves to it either.
Lots of people carry influence, doesn't mean they're "ruling"; the queen has a voice just like any other citizen, and there are always people who will listen. And those revelations caused a minor controversy and lots of consternation amongst republicans and those in favour of the monarchy as a tourism machine.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #66 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Yes yes, the Orwellian reference is very clever. Stop it now though, it's annoying.

 

Maybe tell your own people to stop it.

 
Or should I start referring to your homeland as the 12 colonies?

 

I don’t see the correlation. I’m talking about something you’ve become, not something you once were. If I was to call you something you once were, I’d call you Wessex.

 
She does not lead, she does not rule, she is not in charge of anything beyond her staff and household.

 

Let’s pretend that’s true. So back to my original point: Why on earth would you keep her around?

 
Falls for what? The political process?

 

Well, according to you, she has nothing to do with politics, so it’s not that.

 
I believe you have one of those in the USA too, and there's a lot more "suckers" over there "falling for it".

 

At least our president presides. ;)

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #67 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Let’s pretend that’s true. So back to my original point: Why on earth would you keep her around?
Me personally? I wouldn't. I think I've been pretty clear about that throughout this nutty exchange.

Why do we as a country keep the monarchy around? Probably a sense of tradition, and that since there isn't any vested power they don't do any harm and attract tourism. More broadly the fact that formally removing then would be a big undertaking when there other priorities probably comes into play; there just isn't the political will to do something that would be costly, while practically not achieving very much.

Alright?
Edited by Crowley - 1/9/14 at 1:02pm

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #68 of 109

Britain should leave the E.U. 

Before you disagree, allow me to put it to you like this (and granted this maybe less effective for people already in the E.U but you should still get the picture) -

 

*Cue sarcastic British accent

 

Hey there Japan, Canada, South Africa, the USA and Brazil! I have a deal for you which I doubt you will be able to refuse.

 

How would you like;

- a free trade agreement with 27 European countries 

- the right to live and work in 27 European countries

- the right to healthcare and benefits in 27 European countries

- the right to appeal to the European supreme court

- jobs

- less hassle at European airports  

- slightly cheaper European products

- and a new flag?

 

All you have to do in return for this is;

- give 500,000,000 people the right to live and work in your country

- give 500,000,000 people access to your benefits, healthcare and educational systems

- give away your national sovereignty

- give away your voting power

- accept an unelected, and therefore democratically illegitimate commission as your new government

- accept that your new government can over-rule any of your nations existing laws, regardless of age and history

- accept that your new government has never been audited and it doesn't look like they will be any time soon

- accept any austerity measures we deem necessary

- allow us to take money from your citizens bank accounts, should we deem it necessary

- hand over your right to regulate your own financial organizations and markets

- hand over your right to choose who you can and can't deport/extradite

- hand over your right to broker trade agreements with any nation outside the E.U

- pay £10,000,000,000 a year

- accept the Euro as your new currency

- hand over the power to issue your new currency

- hand over the power to set national interest rates

- accept an open, non-patrolled border with the 27 current member states and any future member states

- accept that Germany and France have more say, power and influence than you will ever have in this union because they pay £11bn a year and you only pay £10bn a year

- accept that if we deem a political party, or even a democratically elected leader in your country a threat to your membership of our union then we can arrest the party and/or remove the leader and replace them with a former IMF or world bank employee of our choice, not yours, no questions asked

- accept that the Eurovision song contest really is important and should be viewed as an accurate representation of how musically gifted a nation is

- and finally should you ever question your membership, be prepared for the 438,500,000 people that don't live in the U.K to ostracise your nation as backwards, unfriendly and stupid to even think of such things.

 

Any takers?

 

Sign here;

 

here;

 

and heeaawww ;-)


Edited by biskits86913 - 1/10/14 at 5:13pm
post #69 of 109
Originally Posted by biskits86913 View Post

- accept an unelected, and therefore democratically illegitimate commission as your new government

 

Thing is, when the EU goes federal, the commission would be replaced by elected officials.

 

R…right?

 

- accept the Euro as your new currency

 

They have an opt out as per the foundation of the Union.

 
- accept that if we deem a political party, or even a democratically elected leader in your country a threat to your membership of our union then we can arrest the party and/or remove the leader and replace them with a former IMF or world bank employee of our choice, not yours, no questions asked

 

Ooh, wait, does that happen now?

 
- accept that the Eurovision song contest really is important and should be viewed as an accurate representation of how musically gifted a nation is

 

Wait… what? 

 
- and finally should you ever question your membership, be prepared for the 438,500,000 people to ostracise your nation as backwards, unfriendly and stupid to even think such things. 

 

Yep, you’re evil for refusing to consider all behavior acceptable. Tends to be the far… whichever direction’s thought these days.

 
and heeaawww ;-)

 

I’ve always thought it was interesting that words that end in ‘A’ are pronounced as ending in ‘R’ in British English. Maybe there’s a reason American English more closely resembles the English of 1776 than theirs. :p 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #70 of 109
When the E.U goes federal, it will most likely be done without the consent of the peoples of Europe as most other laws have been passed.
They have an opt out yes, but if you choose it you loose the power to have a say over very important issues that still heavily effect your economy rendering you effectively less equal than those that do choose it.
The right wing party in Greece, Golden Dawn (I think) were shut down by the government that was installed by the E.U after the E.U ousted the last government for not accepting more austerity.  Don't get me wrong though, I am in no way a fan of parties like them and the BNP but they unfortunately do have the right to their extreme opinions and the mere fact that we have heard of them is testament to how much of a fail the E.U has been.  Far-Right parties have been growing in support in the U.K, the Netherlands, France, Greece, Belgium and others since the Euro and further E.U integration.  Not good.  And Mario Monte was chosen by the E.U to replace Berlusconi in Italy without the public being asked and yes, he is either a former IMF or world bank employee, can't remember which. They're two specific examples that have only happened once but once is far, far too many times. 
Eurovision was a joke mate.  Its a terrible song contest held every year in Europe and each country enters a song.  Pretty much every country in Europe takes it seriously except for the U.K.  We always come in the bottom 3 or 4 even though we take the second biggest share of the global music industry.  Funny that, eh?
 
And even if I conceded these points the pros are still outweighed by the cons 3 to 1. 
post #71 of 109
Thread Starter 

Pressure progresses-

 

 

"Parliament must be given the power to veto every aspect of EU law, 95 Conservative MPs demand in a letter to David Cameron.

 

In a major intervention, the backbenchers have written to the Prime Minister urging him to change the law to give the Commons authority to block new EU legislation and repeal existing measures that threaten Britain’s “national interests”.

 

Such powers would enable the Government to reverse the spread of human rights law, relieve businesses of red tape from Brussels and regain control over immigration, they say. They believe the veto is possible with a new Act of Parliament.

 

At least six more Tory MPs back the letter, but are unable formally to put their names to its demands – some because they are in government jobs.

 

• Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary, demands “a completely new relationship with the EU”, reforming benefits, migration and employment laws. Writing in The Sunday Telegraph today he calls for “a radical new approach to human rights laws”;

• Peter Cruddas, the former Conservative Party Treasurer, says that as a businessman he believes Europe “has to change”. Writing in today’s business section, he says Britain has a “once in a lifetime opportunity to reverse two decades of misrule”;

• George Osborne prepares to address a major two-day conference on EU reform, held by two campaign groups, Open Europe and the Fresh Start Project. The Chancellor will argue that although Britain is better off remaining inside a reformed EU, the UK has major allies in pushing for change.

The MPs’ demand for a national veto signals a decisive end to the fragile truce between Mr Cameron and his colleagues over Europe, which has held since the Prime Minister agreed last May to support a Bill paving the way for an in/out referendum on EU membership."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10566135/Exclusive-95-Tory-MPs-call-for-EU-law-veto.html

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #72 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by biskits86913 View Post
 
The right wing party in Greece, Golden Dawn (I think) were shut down by the government that was installed by the E.U after the E.U ousted the last government for not accepting more austerity.  Don't get me wrong though, I am in no way a fan of parties like them and the BNP but they unfortunately do have the right to their extreme opinions and the mere fact that we have heard of them is testament to how much of a fail the E.U has been.  Far-Right parties have been growing in support in the U.K, the Netherlands, France, Greece, Belgium and others since the Euro and further E.U integration.  Not good.  And Mario Monte was chosen by the E.U to replace Berlusconi in Italy without the public being asked and yes, he is either a former IMF or world bank employee, can't remember which. They're two specific examples that have only happened once but once is far, far too many times. 

 

Correct. They put their own people into power.

 

The far right are gaining power. It's hardly surprising though given we're seeing right in front of us countries losing their character and sovereignty, and it's only going to get much worse unless we act. 

 

Here's more about Golden Dawn in Greece. There's no way anymore I'm going to take the media's word on anything. I'll do some research of my own, not just believe their manipulative fear mongering. I don't know much  about Golden Dawn yet, and I'm sure they have some really bad apples, not unlike most other groups though. I found the following informative including the comments- http://xaameriki.wordpress.com/faq/

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #73 of 109
Thread Starter 

14 years later...

"For an EU obsessed by climate change and its possible effects, more embarrassing is the report’s admission that “10,200 tonnes of CO2 per year would be saved if Strasbourg were no longer used as a place of work”.

That is the equivalent of 12,000 cars driving around the circumference of the world.

In an attempt to cut emissions, at the end of last year MEPs were sent an email from the parliament’s helpdesk, informing them that, from now on, all televisions in Strasbourg would be switched off between plenary sessions.

In other words, it suggests that for the previous 14 years, televisions had been left on for weeks at a time, even when MEPs were in Brussels rather than France. It goes on to explain how MEPs can switch their televisions back on.

The helpdesk email. which has been passed to The Telegraph, states: “We hereby inform you that we took the initiative to turn off all the TV sets in Strasbourg between the sessions.

“Apart from the substantial reduction of energy consumption, this action will also provide for a better protection of these devices in case of sudden electrical incident.

“When arriving to your office at Strasbourg, you will have to turn on again the TV before using the remote control to select your channel (the switch is located behind the TV set).

Please note that individual requests to turn on again your TV before your arrival can be addressed to the LSU MEP Helpdesk. Please also remember to turn off as many devices as you can before leaving your EP office in Brussels as well as in Strasbourg for the reasons explained above.

“We are convinced as well as you that the sum of small actions can contribute to a better environment, and we thank you in advance for your cooperation.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/PIC-and-PUB-PLEASEThe-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

... anything for a nice trip to France.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #74 of 109

Well said.  Not that any of the leaders of Europe think that CO2 is driving any sort of climate change though as most have used carbon offsets to reach their emissions targets.  The EU costs every single person in the UK £166.66 each a year and considering only 32million are actually employed its closer to £310.00 per working person which is about a weeks wages for me.  And that's to pay for a government I can't vote for, a legal system which applies to me but I have no say in, the merging of my country with 26 other countries, politicians that live in the Czec republic to fly to Brussels and then back to Prague without even stopping in, or discussing matters involving the UK and most importantly, its funding and essentially approving everything that's going on in Greece and the Med.  I think the best thing that would come from a UK exit would be that others would have the courage to speak up and maybe even leave too.  Unfortunately, if we do get the vote, we might just vote to stay in as almost every student I speak to wants to keep the EU so they can travel in the summer. 

Well, more facts about Europe -

- Spanish unemployment at 25%

- Greek unemployment at 28%

- Italian unemployment at 13%

- Far right parties on the rise in 6 or 7 major countries

In the last few years,

- some people in Greece have actually burned effigies of Angela Merkel dressed as a Nazi, a sign of who Greece thinks is calling the shots in Europe maybe?

- Riots in Greece, England, Spain and Italy.

- UK found to be spying on Europe (lol)

- French and British tensions, Spanish and British tensions, German and British tensions, Greek and German tensions, French and German tensions, British and Romanian tensions, British and Bulgarian tensions, French and Islamic tension, Dutch and Islamic tensions, German and Islamic tensions, Belgian and Islamic tensions, not quite the big happy family were selling to the rest of the world.

 

I don't know who we think were kidding. Europe is special because of the variety of different cultures and history on such a small continent.  The reality is though that no peoples have attacked each other more throughout history than Europeans.  The French, Prussians, Russians, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Italians, Skandinavians, Turks and British have been at war since forever, to think that because we had a really big one in 1939 patched up all our cultural, political and historical differences is stupid.

post #75 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by biskits86913 View Post

 

I don't know who we think were kidding. Europe is special because of the variety of different cultures and history on such a small continent.  The reality is though that no peoples have attacked each other more throughout history than Europeans.  The French, Prussians, Russians, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Italians, Skandinavians, Turks and British have been at war since forever, to think that because we had a really big one in 1939 patched up all our cultural, political and historical differences is stupid.

 

One of the main reasons why the European Union (/ECC) was founded was to ensure that Europe never again waged war with itself. If you think that the European Union is a colossal waste of money, you should try funding a world war. 

 

And it's very much been mission accomplished. 57 years, zero wars between member nations.

post #76 of 109
No it wasn't. At least thats not how it was sold to the British public. It was to boost trade at a time of severe eccomonmic depression/recession. At no point was it said, nor written into the leagal agreement between joining nations, that the aim was to bring peace. Europe had already had 30 years of peace before it. Infact, since WW2, there has never been more far-right parties with such popularity accross the continent. If you think the BNP, Golden Dawn and all the others are testament to a rip-roaring success, I pitty you. None of the laws past since have been backed by the peoples of Europe, at least not democratically (i.e legitimately). Its ridiculous to think that England and Greece have a common agricultural policy. Ive been to both and very, very few plants/crops that grow in England will grow in Greece. Germany and Spain have a common fisheries policies even though German fishermen fish in the Baltic/Atlantic sea and Spanish fishermen fish in the calm, warm med. In the last 10 years there have been riots in England, Sweden, Greece, Portugal, Italy and Spain. The EU has taken money directly out of peoples bank accounts in Cyprus. Again, if you think that starvation and no health care for 10s of thousands in Greece, 50% youth unemployment in Spain, the removal and replacement of a democratically elected leader with an unelected former imf employee in Italy is a
success, I pitty you.
If the E.U is so amazing, why did Ireland vote against the Lisbon treaty? Why did the only two countries that were given a vote on the Euro, vote not to join? Why does the U.K want to leave? Why are Germans sick of paying for everything? Why are the Greeks depressed? Why has he living standards for the lowest earners in most E.U nations dropped? Why are classrooms in England and Wales now averageing 25-30 when our birth rate is stable? Why has production and manufacturing fled the continent? Why has slave labour increased in the richer countries in the E.U? Why are all our students finishing uni being sent out to a world that has no jobs to offer them unless they're prepared to work an unskilled job for minimum wage?
Germany, France and the U.K prop up (i.e fund) the EU project yet can't agree on anything.
Syria - France said send in the troops, the U.K said arm the opposition and Germany said resolve it with talks and treaties.
Climate change (formally know as global warming) - Germany has done more than any nation on earth in fighting this 'very real' problem. France have taken some action but not much, and the UK has done nothing except make businesses recycle.
Human rights - Germany believe no matter what a person has done, they can never forfeit their human rights, France believe the same unless America wants someone in which case they will make an exception, and the UK feel that once someone commits a horrendous crime (blowing uo a bus in Jordan for example) they have forfeited their rights to vote, freedom of speech etc
Nuclear weapons - Germany says no one should have them, France and the UK think only we (and USA) should have them
Financial regulation - Germany and France want more, the UK less.
Health and saftey regulation - Germany is happy, France wants more, Britain less.
Internet privacy - Germany and France hate that british intelligence agencies have spied on intetnet data/traffic, the UK is just not bothered
How can we create a Europe where everyone is happy when we cant even agree on big issues?
post #77 of 109
Originally Posted by biskits86913 View Post
How can we create a Europe where everyone is happy

 

You can’t. Ever. The problem with the EU is that they’re trying.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #78 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You can’t. Ever. The problem with the EU is that they’re trying.
Agreed. Well said sir
post #79 of 109

Yeah, trying to make everyone happy is such a waste of time.  Stick it in with world peace, stopping climate change, and getting future product information out of Apple.  Can't be done, so why bother attempting it.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #80 of 109
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Yeah, trying to make everyone happy is such a waste of time.  Stick it in with world peace, stopping climate change, and getting future product information out of Apple.  Can't be done, so why bother attempting it.

 

Nice strawmen. Come here often?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Should the UK leave the EU?