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Next-gen USB connector a reversible challenge to Apple's Thunderbolt & Lightning - Page 2

post #41 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

And for the over 40 crowd... remember when SCSI connectors were the size of harmonica? 

And a printer cable alone cost as much a color ink jet printer on Amazon.

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post #42 of 70
If I interpreted the article correctly, if the USB 3.1 is different in design, then they end up being in the same boat as Apple with Lightning. Versions previous to 3.1 (both cables and connectors) will require new adapters. So it's not an automatic "just stick with USB". Could be interesting for Apple as a crack in door.
post #43 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trubador View Post

If I interpreted the article correctly, if the USB 3.1 is different in design, then they end up being in the same boat as Apple with Lightning. Versions previous to 3.1 (both cables and connectors) will require new adapters. So it's not an automatic "just stick with USB". Could be interesting for Apple as a crack in door.

It seems pretty much accepted they won't be able to can't make it both reversible and backwards compatible so I think you're right, but unlike Apple with their Lightning connector it may be a long time before this Type-C connector standard is adopted across 100MM devices. It may be an Android-like situation where only the high-end models have the latest tech which new, lower-end devices still using micro-USB.

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post #44 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


You're specifically talking about Android fanboys. They're idiots. Ignore them.

Actually, for the very 1st time I was specifically referring to other groups .....

 

 

For your viewing pleasure ;)

 

http://mac360.com/2013/12/guess-who-is-copying-apple-now/

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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post #45 of 70
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
I sure did, just because you don't remember doesn’t mean that I didn't.

 

See, you were wrong, though. 

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post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And replace it with what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

USB: the least universal port ever devised, now in its ninth redesign, eventually to have eleven.

Just kill it already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Least universal??? How so? Pure stupidity. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

All those will connect in a type A socket? What are you smoking? Or do you have a keychain full of converter dongles?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Not much to comprehend, unless you fail to understand the definition of universal. You called it the least universal port ever, yet despite the obvious evidence to the contrary, that everything from 30pin and lightning cables to proprietary connectors to USBs own connectors plug into it you seem to feel otherwise. What's the most universal connector then, outside of an electrical socket? VGA? CAT? HDMI and Display port have mini versions too, let's not get started on Firewire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

Apple has some pretty serious patents on the lightning connector. I wonder how USB group will deal with that.
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2013/10/apple-granted-36-patents-today-covering-the-lightning-connector-micro-sim-assembly-future-ipad-materials-more.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

The article says this new plug will be similarly sized to the current Micro-B plug. In other words.... small.

Can you imagine a flash drive with a tiny plug like that?

Let's hope it's very strong, reliable and durable.

None of all that means squat...! Fact: Apple does not like connectors on mobile devices.

Are you with me so far??

So use the wifi to communicate between devices. Use Airdrop... start thinking like Apple and think outside the wire.
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post #47 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

None of all that means squat...! Fact: Apple does not like connectors on mobile devices.

Are you with me so far??

So use the wifi to communicate between devices. Use Airdrop... start thinking like Apple and think outside the wire.

So how to do you suppose we charge it? Fact is that there will always be some type of cord connector, what if there's something wrong with the device and it won't connect wirelessly? How many people had to use a USB cord to fix their Apple TVs after a update bricked it?
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post #48 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

None of all that means squat...! Fact: Apple does not like connectors on mobile devices.

Are you with me so far??

So use the wifi to communicate between devices. Use Airdrop... start thinking like Apple and think outside the wire.

This proposed next-gen USB port is not only for mobile devices... it's actually the updated version of this:



Can we really replace this type of functionality with WIFI and Airdrop?

Not anytime soon. Some sort of physical connection will always be needed and will be commonplace for a long time.
post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

So the fact that all of those will connect in a type A socket means that they're not universal?

When you were a kid, did the "square peg in round hole" toy frustrate you, or did you angrily smash all the shapes into the Type A hole and declare it "universal"?

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post #50 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Least universal??? How so? Pure stupidity. 

He's right. I hate USB. How many different connectors does one "standard" need? How many cables should one have to carry to connect his or her devices. USB was a great idea. Too bad it's been so poorly implemented and managed.
post #51 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

Another nail in Thunderbolt's coffin.


Clueless troll

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

What?! In no way does the micro-USB3.0 Type C connector affect Thunderbolt.


You're going on an assumption that this jerk has even a remote clue what he's talking about.  He's not even worth the effort.

post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyx View Post

He's right. I hate USB. How many different connectors does one "standard" need? How many cables should one have to carry to connect his or her devices. USB was a great idea. Too bad it's been so poorly implemented and managed.

Needs change so the 'standard' has to change as well.
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post #53 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Needs change so the 'standard' has to change as well.

 

Agreed.  To a point.  But there's nothing "Universal" about USB.  That's the point.  It's a mess of different cables with different connectors.  I could deal with a few, a larger desktop device connector and a mini connector, for example.  I do a lot of backpacking and carry a Powerfilm solar panel with a USB car charger to charge my Steripen (water purifier), headlamp, portable speaker, and iPhone.  Wouldn't it be nice if I could carry one standard cable?  My portable speaker uses one kind of mini USB, my headlamp and Steripen use another, and the iPhone uses Lightening.  The promise of a universal cable is just that, a promise.  Sure, cables have gotten a lot smaller and easier to manage than back in the early days, but there are still far too many connectors.  I think they need to drop the U from USB.

post #54 of 70
I am really hoping this is Apple opening up their Lightning Design for USB 3.1 Type C Port.
post #55 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyx View Post

Agreed.  To a point.  But there's nothing "Universal" about USB.  That's the point.  It's a mess of different cables with different connectors.  I could deal with a few, a larger desktop device connector and a mini connector, for example.  I do a lot of backpacking and carry a Powerfilm solar panel with a USB car charger to charge my Steripen (water purifier), headlamp, portable speaker, and iPhone.  Wouldn't it be nice if I could carry one standard cable?  My portable speaker uses one kind of mini USB, my headlamp and Steripen use another, and the iPhone uses Lightening.  The promise of a universal cable is just that, a promise.  Sure, cables have gotten a lot smaller and easier to manage than back in the early days, but there are still far too many connectors.  I think they need to drop the U from USB.

This is the "universal" part of USB... all USB cables plug into this:



But you're right... the other end of the cable needs help...
post #56 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Isn't it sad that because the writer here seemed to give USB 3.1 a fair shake, I automatically knew DED didn't write the article, without checking.

I've tweeted about wanting reversible USB 4 years ago. This standards body is too slow, they should be pushing to get this sorted in the first quarter of 2014. Frankly, I hope USB kills Thunderbolt, because when we're standardised on a good port everyone wins. Also, the article should have mentioned that not being reversible is a huge blow to Thunderbolt.

 

Even if USB 3.1 is what is described here, it will still have problems with latency and priority. It is built for packet-based communication. Thunderbolt, much like Firewire, is built for streaming. I expect USB 3.1 - based monitor to delay or skip frames, especially if external devices are connected through it.

 

Also, Thunderbolt is available since Feb, 2011 (almost 3 years). USB 3.1 standard won't be available for at least 6 months (more like a year). That means commercial availability in 1 to 2 years. 

 

In the mean time, Apple already utilizes Thunderbolt 2 (20GBps). And if Intel engineers manage to solve issues such as channel bonding, they might push for for the initially promised 100GBps.

 

On a side note, 4K displays are already on the market. In two years they will be the standard.

 

So, forgive me for not being overly enthusiastic about USB 3.1, as it won't replace Thunderbolt, nor HDMI. Nor will it replace Lightning for that matter.

post #57 of 70
USB is cross platform, Apple really needs a very large Thunderbolt & Lightning Fork to ever become that.

So there is no challenge.
post #58 of 70

USB isn't just the port on the accessory, it's the stability of only needing one type of port on your computer for most accessories, and the ease for manufacturers of supporting one protocol.  These have been great news for computing.  

 

If the USB group hadn't ever changed the connector there would have been gripes for years about how big, and how fragile, and (soon) how unreversible it is.  They're moving with the times, which is good.  And maybe there have been some odd variants through the years, but most people didn't encounter more than the main 3 connectors.  That's a damn sight better than serial pin connectors, parallel printer ports and colour coded PS/2 jacks.

 

I hope it's good, and I actually hope Apple switch to it too.  Thunderbolt and Lightning are great, but all other things being equal, if I could have a single cable that works with iOS devices as well as other things, I'd choose that.

 

The power stuff is interesting too.

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post #59 of 70
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
So how to do you suppose we charge it?

 

REAL wireless power. Not the induction BS.

 
…what if there’s something wrong with the device and it won't connect wirelessly?

 

If there’s something wrong with the Wi-Fi chip, you’ll have to take it in whether or not it has a physical attachment to anything else.

 
How many people had to use a USB cord to fix their Apple TVs after a update bricked it?

 

The same number who had Apple TVs that weren’t set up to appropriate their own fixed software using a separate partition. Fact is we don’t need OS discs on our computers anymore; we have the recovery partition. The same will soon be true of mobile devices.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

REAL wireless power. Not the induction BS.

If there’s something wrong with the Wi-Fi chip, you’ll have to take it in whether or not it has a physical attachment to anything else.

The same number who had Apple TVs that weren’t set up to appropriate their own fixed software using a separate partition. Fact is we don’t need OS discs on our computers anymore; we have the recovery partition. The same will soon be true of mobile devices.

Does real wireless charging sans induction even possible?

What part of 'bricked' don't you understand? The partition becomes useless in that case.
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post #61 of 70
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Does real wireless charging sans induction even possible?

 

Yep!

 
What part of 'bricked' don't you understand? The partition becomes useless in that case.

 

Right, which is why you’re using the other partition to restore. Did you miss where I said there’s a separate partition for that on Macs?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #62 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yep!

Right, which is why you’re using the other partition to restore. Did you miss where I said there’s a separate partition for that on Macs?

Good info. Thanks for the link.
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post #63 of 70
How is induction, pretty much the cornerstone of electricity generation "BS"?  :lol:
 
WiTricity may not be simple induction, but it is still induction.  The clue's in the technical name: resonant inductive coupling.
 
In any case, it's still less efficient, so no thanks.  Plugging in is no great inconvenience compared to the cost of a major refit and higher energy bills.

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post #64 of 70
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

 

Fine, contact induction.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #65 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Yep!

 

Right, which is why you’re using the other partition to restore. Did you miss where I said there’s a separate partition for that on Macs?

 

Wireless power will never be as efficient as conventional wire power. While I don't care much about the 125 milliwatts wifi or 1 watts cellphone, I do have a lot of concern about irradiating 100 watts of micro-waves in my living room to power a TV or a lamp.

post #66 of 70
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I do have a lot of concern about irradiating 100 watts of micro-waves in my living room to power a TV or a lamp.

 

The implication that we’re not constantly bathed in radiation of all frequencies all day, every day doesn’t lend much credence to your argument.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #67 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

The implication that we’re not constantly bathed in radiation of all frequencies all day, every day doesn’t lend much credence to your argument.

I think you've missing key understanding on how electro magnetic energy propagation work.  Electromagnetic field that radiate into infinite space and decrease in intensity by an inverse-square law of power, so while we are constantly bathed in radiation of all frequencies, what we absorb is much lesser than 1 watts a days.   You know wifi and microwave oven utilize pretty much the same frequencies, only power output differ.  Actually the microwave oven principle has been discover when marines got cooked birds passing on front of radar antennas.  So I still got concern about wireless device with power output over 5 watts (the maximum power allow to a handheld amateur radio for safety reason) within a meters from me. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 12/6/13 at 8:13am
post #68 of 70
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
So I still got concern about wireless device with power output over 5 watts (the maximum power allow to a handheld amateur radio for safety reason) within a meters from me. 

 

Buy this, cover with this, problem solved.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #69 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

^ post

HA!

This one's the best

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post #70 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Buy this, cover with this, problem solved.

 

Thank you for suggestion, but I will keep using plain old and more efficient wired power technologies instead. 

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