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President Obama reveals he is not allowed to use Apple's iPhone due to security risks - Page 2

post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus View Post

"Due to security reasons, we are no longer permitted to implement battleships. We will instead deploy this last-remaining awesome Viking ship. I am assured of its efficacy, despite there being only seven people on board, six of whom are dedicated to bailing water."


Well, a battleship does have a much higher radar signature :p

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Kardashians? What's that? A successor race to the Cyclons? Or perhaps predecessor?


Sounds like a carnivorous animal. "In the Pleistocene jungles, the mighty kardashians preyed on all, powerful long-necked herbivores as well as fast, nimble hunters".

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #43 of 92
So does this article mean he wants an iPhone .....or just meaningless article - I mean it could have been Obama can't use an HTC on the equivalent HTC insider site.....or any other phone lol. Obama can't use a land line...,Obama can't use a pay phone. How about fisher price?
post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by virtua View Post

So does this article mean he wants an iPhone .....or just meaningless article - I mean it could have been Obama can't use an HTC on the equivalent HTC insider site.....or any other phone lol. Obama can't use a land line...,Obama can't use a pay phone. How about fisher price?

 

 

Since when is this about Obama?

Isn’t the article about iPhone’s security, or the iPhone’s perceived security or lack to it?

post #45 of 92
Clues
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


Since when is this about Obama?
Isn’t the article about iPhone’s security, or the iPhone’s perceived security or lack to it?

Clue is in the title of the article? ;p
post #46 of 92
Could it be that Blackberry was chosen to allow security services to spy on Obama?
RIM were said to have deals with Russia, China and of course US to allow snooping.

Reality and perception do not always mix well.
post #47 of 92
Blackberry phones were built for business usage. It still has an unbreakable cypher that was invented in 2005. Many countries have tried but it way beyond today's technology still. Most expert think it could be as long as a century give today's computer speed advancements.
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post
 

 

 

Since when is this about Obama?

Isn’t the article about iPhone’s security, or the iPhone’s perceived security or lack to it?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by virtua View Post

Clues


Clue is in the title of the article? ;p

 

 

Really?

post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post



Really?

Really 1smile.gif
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

Blackberry phones were built for business usage. It still has an unbreakable cypher that was invented in 2005. Many countries have tried but it way beyond today's technology still. Most expert think it could be as long as a century give today's computer speed advancements.

Ahem:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-smartphones-including-the-blackberry-a-921161.html
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post #51 of 92
Konqerror is correct. It takes YEARS to get these crypto modules approved. I'm told this is because of the backlog of verification of other standards that NIST is reviewing for approval. As the other person said, they aren't reviewing or verifying the operating system of the phone - only the crypto module and it's implementation into the operating system to insure it is functioning correctly. I work in government and the length of time it takes to get these things approved for different devices is a giant pain in the ass. By the time something gets approved, 2 newer items are on the market and now THEY have to go through an approval process.

Further, it's not necessarily the hardware or the software that holds back a device from being used, it's the DATA and it's sensitivity level that makes it tricky to use one product over another.
post #52 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSerenityx View Post

Frankly, there are still security concerns about the Blackberry he uses, or him using a cellphone at all. He also has been photographed repeatedly violating communications security protocols with that stupid Blackberry, such as making calls on it right next to his secured landline (which interferes with the encryption and can allow for eavesdropping). Many TCSM professionals have commented on this. Him not using an iPhone is a nonissue, IMO.

Obama's BB has a extra layer of security that the average BB doesn’t have.

http://www.securdigital.com/securvoice.html

He also has own cell site that travels with him and connects directly to a secure satellite.
Edited by dasanman69 - 12/5/13 at 6:04am
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #53 of 92
I guess the President has enough knowledge of technology to use it to put both Romney and McCain on the bus. It is unfortunate that the IT personnel cannot give up their old faithful blackberry security system, and force the President to use such an antiquated system. We need some IT housecleaning at the federal level.
Eph nMP, rMBP, MBA, Minis
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Eph nMP, rMBP, MBA, Minis
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post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Obama's BB has a extra layer of security that the average BB doesn’t have.

So did Brigit Bardot.
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post #55 of 92

Not surprising. Even rocket scientists cannot use the newest technologies. The Curiosity Rover's computer uses a (hardened) PowerPC chip, far less powerful than those in the newest phones. This is generally true of all satellites launched. These systems are in design 20 years before launch and are paced through years of certification and testing. 

 

The fact that it would take years to certify and harden devices the President and other high ranking officials use is not surprising and is necessary. Those commenters thinking otherwise or suggesting the reason is incompetence or lack of tech savviness have blown their claim to being anything but programming hacks. 

post #56 of 92

Nobody in this world has the raw computing power that the NSA has.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #57 of 92

<QUOTE>

BlackBerry is known to have solid security and was the go-to device for the U.S. government before the rise of the iPhone

</QUOTE>

 

As I remember it was found that while there was some authentication, they didn't exactly encrypt the data between the carrier and the account. So all those messages are in the free and clear if you can intercept.

 

However, not pretending to be an expert on that. It's just that the "more secure" is an old impression and BlackBerry hasn't made as many changes as the iPhone.

 

But to be honest, there are a lot of features now that would make ANY smart phone a security risk. Does anyone in the Secret Service not read up on all the security services now competing with devices to legally spy on everyone in a given zone? They advertise equipment that you can walk into an airport and be scanning everyone's phone and wiFi traffic in a minute.

 

So the "illusion" of security might be intact with BlackBerry, because nobody is talking about it anymore. They "talk" about security issues with a major phone like the iPhone because;

1) More features means more points of failure (possibly).

2) The security company needs fear, uncertainty and doubt to be relevant. Sending out warnings is a way for them to look like they are on top of things.

3) FUD is paid for by competitors.

 

They should be talking to the CIA and NSA for what those guys think on security. Likely Obama needs to have an assistant with a "burner phone." He's just looking for a reason to stay with a device he likes to use (and not change), but security is really a bad excuse -- there is none. All these devices have GPS built in unless you physically disable it -- and it's there whether YOU use it or not.

post #58 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by virtua View Post


Really 1smile.gif

 

I'd say it's more about the security of the iPhone than Obama. Must be other people who are not allowed to use it as well... unless they are all named Obama.

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post
 

Not surprising. Even rocket scientists cannot use the newest technologies. The Curiosity Rover's computer uses a (hardened) PowerPC chip, far less powerful than those in the newest phones. This is generally true of all satellites launched. These systems are in design 20 years before launch and are paced through years of certification and testing. 

 

The fact that it would take years to certify and harden devices the President and other high ranking officials use is not surprising and is necessary. Those commenters thinking otherwise or suggesting the reason is incompetence or lack of tech savviness have blown their claim to being anything but programming hacks. 

 

"Hardened" in this case is "radiation hardened." It isn't about security, it's about EM and radioactive charges. It's harder to harden newer, faster chips because the process is smaller 22-15nm on the latest. So any tiny charge or noise is going to cause more problems or even damage the CPU. They have to shield these things and probably add in a lot more "error detection." There is always check-sum and error detection going on even in earth-bound CPUs and memory storage, it's probably a factor of 10 greater for something on Mars, though.

 

And "certification" is just a process -- it doesn't guarantee security. But fewer features means fewer vectors of attack. But "secure" would mean someone on an encrypted hot point, transmitting to a hard line and no cell phones at all. The protocols that Cell Phones use to communicate with towers do not preclude a "man in the middle attack."

 

But really, other than embarrassing the President, there isn't much worth intercepting anymore. All this data can be bought from a contractor working for the NSA. It's called Capitalism. The important spying going on is with one corporation on another mega corporation -- where the real decisions are being made.

post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post
 

 

FIPS 140 refers to the certification of the cryptographic module. Basically the encryption functions operate correctly and feature a basic set of algorithms. The goal of the standard is to fight against the fake/poorly implemented encryption that was prevalent during the early days of commercial cryptography. A certified module means that when you ask it to encrypt something with AES 256, you have assurance that it really encrypted properly.

 

It doesn't vouch for the security or design of the rest of the device or platform. For that, you have Common Criteria. As an example, the security disaster that was Windows XP had a FIPS 140 certification, as has OS X for a while. The key being that the BlackBerry system is Common Criteria EAL 4+.

 

Usually there is little need to change the crypto library, CoreCrypto in Apple's case, so they are left unchanged for many versions to avoid the time and expense of recertification.

Not all of this is correct. FIPS 140-2 validation is for the crypto module but it includes how it operates on specific types of equipment. Apple had to specify the models of hardware it was tested on. Therefore, they received validation for both the iPhone and iPad versions. To update the author, Apple received validation on iOS7 in November (ref: http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/STM/cmvp/documents/140-1/1401val2013.htm). The actual encryption algorithms Apple uses are approved before their CoreCrypto modules are approved (a module is a collection of algorithms for a specific use on specific hardware).

 

As for the antiquated Common Criteria (CC), this was never for anyone other than the manufacturers to get government approval to sell their product. My information from various manufacturers is that CC is worthless and doesn't really demonstrate anything.

 

Your last paragraph is not true. CoreCrypto was new to iOS6 and required wholesale changes to Apple cryptographic modules. iOS7 had some more changes and still required re-validation. Apple choose not to get approval on every version because NIST and their test labs took so long to finish their work that they were usually at least one version behind before Apple was ready to release the latest version. Apple continuously refines their cryptographic modules.

 

As for Blackberry use by the President, this make sense. First, the Secret Service already has all the equipment in place and it works. I also bet the President is using an older model of phone because it still works and everyone else has it. The Blackberry is also the only mobile phone system that is current approved for classified conversations (last I was able to check). The iPhone and (ugh) Android phones have not received this approval. This is because Blackberry has a very good system (it's just their phones that are behind). This could change in the future but it will take effort on our government's part to fund the necessary work to provide a good iPhone system for classified conversations. I don't believe the latest Blackberry server options for iOS devices include enough to use iPhones as classified phones. 

 

disclaimer: I just retired after working for a government contractor for a long time and the information I have stated comes from years of working to get Apple devices approved for operation at our facility. Of course, all it took was a few senior managers who wanted iPhones and iPads to force our Microsoft-centric IT staff to actually do something for Apple products.

post #61 of 92

Pesky NSA making O feel unsafe.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #62 of 92
Is this one of those "end of year" stories where we look back at the news from 5 years ago? I realize that it's good click-bait for political haters, but what else is this story meant to accomplish?
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I'd say it's more about the security of the iPhone than Obama. Must be other people who are not allowed to use it as well... unless they are all named Obama.

Yeah it is - it's just the way they've written the article - neither Obama or Apple need to be in it. Otherwise it's about Obama can't have an iPhone because..... Intimating he wants one.
post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

What does Putin use?

He beams his thoughts directly into the heads of his subordinates.

post #65 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by virtua View Post

So does this article mean he wants an iPhone .....or just meaningless article - I mean it could have been Obama can't use an HTC on the equivalent HTC insider site.....or any other phone lol. Obama can't use a land line...,Obama can't use a pay phone. How about fisher price?

George took the fisher price phone when he moved out in 2009!

 

(sorry, couldn't resist) :)

post #66 of 92
Having secure devices for usage in high security domain needs a lot of research and analysis of how the devices work. Blackberry was built with security in mind, it was their number one priority, so I'm not surprised that the iPhone, even with its security, is less secure for that use. The platform may also be harder to adapt to what they need.
post #67 of 92
Hahahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

George took the fisher price phone when he moved out in 2009!

(sorry, couldn't resist) 1smile.gif
post #68 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

What does Putin use?

Henchmen.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #69 of 92

At first I was kind of like this does not make sense the iphone has to be as good if not better then the BB. However, I suspect secure of the actual phone is not the issue.

 

I worked for a company who made Video conferencing equipment and the US government was one of our largest customers as one would expect. Our products had a feature which we refer to as the KGB Feature. It was a hidden feature which was only given to the our security minded government customers. What this thing did to the best of my understanding was to encrypted everything. Our product interface with a hardware box which encrypted all the communications from one of our systems to another system. When you made a video call the call would go into this box then this box would set up a secure connect to the other end then encrypt everything in real time. If someone was somehow sitting in the middle trying to listen or capture the communications they could not since it was all encrypted. The feature in our box allowed the connect to the KGB box and had special timing to allow the KGB box to do it thing and establish the connection.  

 

I suspect that the BB has some sort of hardware/software feature they put on that allows all the communications between the president and others to be encrypted in real time. Not that could not do this with an iphone but it take lots of time to ensure it works properly. With our Video Conferencing products, it would take 6 months to a year for them to do all their testing before they were certify our hardware and software to be used in their secure communications next work. Once they had a working solution they never would upgrade that is for sure.

post #70 of 92
I set an iPad up for our Prime Minister (New Zealand) to use.

There was a ruckus when politicians complained that Parliamentary Services wouldn't allow iOS devices to connect to their Exchange server but a word from the PM meant PS had to look into it, finally allowing it after many reports were showing iOS to be one of the most secure platforms.

If he wanted iOS devices Obama could force the issue... unless it's true that the American president doesn't actually have any real power to do anything.
post #71 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What an inflammatory piece of yellow journalism. Being able to pose with an iPhone does not make you tech savvy. Obama has demonstrated a remarkable ability to not grasp technology nor the business world.

HA, you think the business world is tech savvy? 17 years of working in corporate IT and I have yet to see any evidence that big business understand technology.

 

Hell, just look at all the negative reports about Apple to see how poorly the business world understands technology.

post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryn Lowe View Post

I set an iPad up for our Prime Minister (New Zealand) to use.

There was a ruckus when politicians complained that Parliamentary Services wouldn't allow iOS devices to connect to their Exchange server but a word from the PM meant PS had to look into it, finally allowing it after many reports were showing iOS to be one of the most secure platforms.

If he wanted iOS devices Obama could force the issue... unless it's true that the American president doesn't actually have any real power to do anything.

 

Finally getting his appointments passed after 6 years in office would support the *unless it's true that the American president doesn't actually have any real power to do anything.* Cheney/Bush had some power because they used the NSA for what it was intended; extortion and blackmail.

post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

Not all of this is correct. FIPS 140-2 validation is for the crypto module but it includes how it operates on specific types of equipment. Apple had to specify the models of hardware it was tested on.

 

Your last paragraph is not true. CoreCrypto was new to iOS6 and required wholesale changes to Apple cryptographic modules. iOS7 had some more changes and still required re-validation. Apple choose not to get approval on every version because NIST and their test labs took so long to finish their work that they were usually at least one version behind before Apple was ready to release the latest version. Apple continuously refines their cryptographic modules.

 

 

Not all of this is correct. It is well known that Apple uses hardware acceleration on their cryptography. That's why there's a separate certification which is dependent on the hardware. Pure software-only solutions (see Apple FIPS Cryptographic Module) are tested on certain types of hardware but cover more than the one hardware configuration that they were tested on. The key for these implementations is their integrity self-tests.

 

Your last paragraph is also incorrect. Of course Apple has to recertify their crypto module when they make changes, but they have never made changes within a point release. See OpenSSL, a lot of Linux distros still use 0.9.8 because it was FIPS validated and changing to a newer version = more work = more cost.

post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimarbazat View Post

why isn't he getting the latest BB device that looks and kind of functions like an iPhone? isn't that secure?

so the iPhone is not secure, but the iPad the president has, that runs the same iOS software as the iPhone, is secure enough that he's allowed to use..
Isn't that stupid?

The iPad doesn't need to be connected. Duh!

post #75 of 92
There are a couple of secure iPad and iPhone apps used in the DoD and Federal Government -- Thursby PKard Reader and PKard Mail. PKard stands for Public Key card, which means a U.S. Government CAC or PIV card is leveraged for strong two factor authentication and FIPS 140-2 encryption.

The Executive Branch consists of more than the just the President and what goes for smart phones does not necessarily apply to tablets.

The article is quite correct in pointing to various layers of security and that certification can't follow product life cycles that are as fast as Apple's.
post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What an inflammatory piece of yellow journalism. Being able to pose with an iPhone does not make you tech savvy. Obama has demonstrated a remarkable ability to not grasp technology nor the business world.

Yes, as we know the real tech savvy ones are on androids.

post #77 of 92

He does not use a standard BB device. It was heavily modified, by an outside firm if I remember correctly and only resembles the original, just like the "Cadillac" that he rides in. 

post #78 of 92
"The leader of the free world" - that phrase is well past it's sell-by date.
post #79 of 92
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post
"The leader of the free world" - that phrase is well past it's sell-by date.

 

You’re right. “Leader of the world” makes a lot more sense.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #80 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Nobody in this world has the raw computing power that the NSA has.

Have you check out IBM new "Big Blue" Super Computer!  It like 200X faster then the model that beat the human chessmaster!  I think even the NSA computer could not win a chess match against the new Big Blue machine!

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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › President Obama reveals he is not allowed to use Apple's iPhone due to security risks