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In lieu of a Retina Thunderbolt Display, Apple now selling 4K IGZO Sharp LED monitor

post #1 of 110
Thread Starter 
Ahead of this month's debut of the revamped Mac Pro desktop, which can drive up to three 4K displays, Apple is selling a new 4K "Ultra HD" 32-inch LED IGZO monitor from manufacturer Sharp in its online store.

Sharp


The Sharp PN-K321 4K monitor is currently available in various Apple online stores across Europe for 3,999 euros. It's also found in the U.K. store, but is not yet available in the U.S.

The 32-inch IGZO display is advertised to have a 1.07-billion color palatte with 350 cd/m2 brightness and an 800-to-1 contrast ratio. It also sports built-in 2-watt-per-channel stereo sound, and supports landscape and portrait modes.

The 4K resolution monitor packs in so many pixels that it's advertised to be able to view the content of four full-HD 1080p screens across a single display, all while reducing power with the use of IGZO technology. Its availability was first noted on Friday by IDG News Service.

Availability of the 4K display through Apple comes as the company is preparing to launch a revamped cylindrical Mac Pro desktop this month. Apple has boasted that the computer, which will start at $2,999, will be capable of driving up to three 4K screens.

This week, German retailer Conrad temporarily began taking preorders for the Mac Pro, indicating to shoppers that the desktop will be available on Dec. 16. However, there has been no official confirmation from Apple, and the preorder page was subsequently pulled.

Mac Pro
The new Mac Pro will drive three 4K-resolution displays, but Apple does not yet offer a screen of that caliber resolution.


The ability of the Mac Pro to drive three 4K displays has fueled speculation that Apple could update its own Thunderbolt Display to a Retina-caliber 4K resolution. Supply of the Thunderbolt Display has been tight throughout 2013, further driving hopes that an update could be forthcoming, though Apple has unsurprisingly not indicated any such information.

Retina display-caliber wallpapers found in Apple's new OS X Mavericks operating system are 5,120-by-2,880 pixels, which is exactly twice that of the resolution found on the current Thunderbolt Display, as well as Apple's 27-inch iMac.
post #2 of 110
I didn't know that a 4K monitor actually meant $4K. Go figure.
post #3 of 110

Apple’s offering will be $3,499; just wait.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #4 of 110
Man, I like the idea of the 4K display, but that Sharp monitor is *not* apple quality design - it's a bit ugly.

I see a bunch of TB displays around my cube at work, they look fantastic. Wish Apple would make their own 4K TB display with the right aesthetics.
post #5 of 110
Not retina, but tons of 1x pixel space! A niche product that I wish I could afford! Although the pixels might be too large for 2x retina usage and yet too small for legible 1x usage? Sounds like an awkward in-between.

Even more, I wish for an actual retina Thunderbolt display, around 27", to be used at 2x. 5120x2880 like those Mavericks wallpapers, please!

Apple offering this Sharp is probably a nail in that coffin for a while to come, though.

Apple's 27" display is 3.7 megapixels. This 32" Sharp is 8.3 megapixels. That's 2.24 times as large if used at 1x. But I could get close to that pixel area cheaper with a pair of Apple TB displays, if all I want is more workspace. (I'm not previewing 4k video.)

So, I'll get a good deal on a 24"-27" Dell to go with my upcoming Mac Pro. I'll appreciate the portrait rotation if nothing else. (But sadly, Dells lacks speakers by default.)

P.S. It's a little weird that Apple shows the Sharp display sitting next to an Airport base station, instead of, say, a Mac. It's not like AirPlay can push 4k... can it?
post #6 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Apple’s offering will be $3,499; just wait.

 

Well we will have to won't we? ;)

 

I am rather surprised Apple doesn't have their own 4K display ready. I wonder if it has anything to do with Thunderbolt 2 chipset availability? When TB2 was originally announced, Intel said it was only going to be available in limited quantities in 2013 with full production ramping up in the first quarter of 2014.

 

Edit: SInce this is available in the UK and not the US store just yet, I suppose they could release their own 4K in the US only if supplies are limited. We will see I suppose.

 

-kpluck

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post #7 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Not retina, but tons of 1x pixel space! A niche product that I wish I could afford! Although the pixels might be too large for 2x retina usage and yet too small for legible 1x usage? Sounds like an awkward in-between.

Even more, I wish for an actual retina Thunderbolt display, around 27", to be used at 2x. 5120x2880 like those Mavericks wallpapers, please!

Apple offering this Sharp is probably a nail in that coffin for a while to come, though.

Apple's 27" display is 3.7 megapixels. This 32" Sharp is 8.3 megapixels. That's 2.24 times as large if used at 1x. But I could get close to that pixel area cheaper with a pair of Apple TB displays, if all I want is more workspace. (I'm not previewing 4k video.)

So, I'll get a good deal on a 24"-27" Dell to go with my upcoming Mac Pro. I'll appreciate the portrait rotation if nothing else. (But sadly, Dells lacks speakers by default.)

P.S. It's a little weird that Apple shows the Sharp display sitting next to an Airport base station, instead of, say, a Mac. It's not like AirPlay can push 4k... can it?

Could that be the new Mac mini design? That have a standard 3.5 hard drive with PCIe flash? Just wishful thinking 1smile.gif
post #8 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landcruiser View Post

I didn't know that a 4K monitor actually meant $4K. Go figure.

Ha ha, it's even worse! The price is in Euros, which in USD is $5,479!

post #9 of 110

I'll throw another option on the table here...

 

Notice how this display isn't available in the US on the Apple Store. So I would throw out that maybe Apple IS going to release a 4k Apple Display, but in very limited quantities so its only being sold in the US. So to make up for that and not totally leave others out in the cold without a 4k display option, they offered the Sharp 4k display as an option. 

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post #10 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

P.S. It's a little weird that Apple shows the Sharp display sitting next to an Airport base station, instead of, say, a Mac. It's not like AirPlay can push 4k... can it?

Doesn't 802.11ac support that amount of data?
post #11 of 110

I actually have a very serious question related to a 2009 24" Apple Cinema Display. Can someone with a history of experience with Apple Displays send me a DM/PM, so that I may ask a question? Thank you in advance.

post #12 of 110

So this display does not have a thunderbolt port?

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post #13 of 110
Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post
Ha ha, it's even worse! The price is in Euros, which in USD is $5,479!

 

Apple keeps prices numerically equivalent across currencies. It’d be $3,999 here, if sold.

 

Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post
I actually have a very serious question related to a 2009 24" Apple Cinema Display. Can someone with a history of experience with Apple Displays send me a DM/PM, so that I may ask a question? Thank you in advance.


This is as relevant a place as any; go ahead and ask.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #14 of 110
Matte. Finally!!! Great.
post #15 of 110

Apple is very obviously doomed. 

post #16 of 110
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post
Matte.

 

Given all the glare on the product images, I would definitely say it is matte. Only matte screens cause that kind of glare.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #17 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

So this display does not have a thunderbolt port?

DisplayPort. And 2x HDMI, audio in and out. VESA 200mm. Height adjustable.
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post #18 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


This is as relevant a place as any; go ahead and ask.

 

I think I began having problems with what is known as 'Image Persistence' (similar to what I used to know as 'Ghosting' on RGB or Arcade monitors in the 1980s) about 7 or 8 months ago (April or May, 2013) - see similar/related images here, here and here. I've read enough about it so that I think I know what it is. The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)). I have already attempted the 'software' fixes (using an all white screen, or using alternating screensaver / patterns, but these do not seem to solve the long term problem, only short term). with Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Is this something, that while may not be common, is something that occasionally happens as displays age? I'm wondering what my options are .. as you can tell, so far, I have just been tolerating it. If it becomes too serious, I think that I would consider having the display repaired. Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair? I've thought about an Apple authorized repair location (not an Apple Store), near Pittsburgh. I seem to think that I feel that I trust smaller authorized repair locations more. I've been wondering about these issues for a while. Any help, thoughts or advice are appreciated. You may reply to me here, or, if you think that it to be more appropriate, you may send me a DM/PM.  Thank you to anyone in advance.


Edited by Digital_Guy - 12/6/13 at 2:50pm
post #19 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


This is as relevant a place as any; go ahead and ask.

 

I think I began having problems with what is known as 'Image Persistence' (similar to what I used to know as 'Ghosting' on RGB or Arcade monitors in the 1980s) about 7 or 8 months ago (April or May, 2013) - see similar/related images here, here and here. I've read enough about it so that I think I know what it is. The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)). I have already attempted the 'software' fixes (using an all white screen, or using alternating screensaver / patterns, but these do not seem to solve the long term problem, only short term). with Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Is this something, that while may not be common, is something that occasionally happens as displays age? I'm wondering what my options are .. as you can tell, so far, I have just been tolerating it. If it becomes too serious, I think that I would consider having the display repaired. Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair? I've thought about an Apple authorized repair location (not an Apple Store), near Pittsburgh. I seem to think that I feel that I trust smaller authorized repair locations more. I've been wondering about these issues for a while. Any help, thoughts or advice are appreciated. You may reply to me here, or, if you think that it to be more appropriate, you may send me a DM/PM.  Thank you to anyone in advance.

 

I've seen a very similar issue with one of my 23" Cinema displays, but it seems to be related to (caused by?) the video card that is driving it (in this case an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT). Did you check whether this is a source -independent phenomenon? 

post #20 of 110
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

Does anyone have any experience with this (Image Persistence)? Any ideas or suggestions, even related to the repair? 

 

Dang, that’s about as bad as it gets, huh? I remember way back when I was teaching myself about these newfangled “flat” screens in replacing CRT and how “plasma burns in” and “LCD doesn’t”, and yet here we are with LCDs burning in. Fortunately I haven’t had any burn in, but I DO have panel damage on my 27” from something. No idea what it is; you can really only see it on certain colors, too. If the panel shows white or black it’s invisible, but on grey it just slaps you in the face. Some colors don’t show it, other colors do. No clue what it is or what caused it, but I’m out of warranty and can’t really do anything to fix it. When you buy a $1,000 panel, you expect it not to do this a year after purchase…

 

 

There’s also a much smaller patch of it (this is about an inch and a half long) at the top edge of my panel, but that’s hidden under the Menu Bar. Not that it’s acceptable, but…

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #21 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post
 

 The display (a 24" A.C.D.) is showing behavior that is consistent with Image Persistence (image retention on the display, although this seems to vary, both on the location of the display each time, and it also seems to take longer to appear, depending on how long the display has been off (even the number of days seems to have an effect)).

 

I have a Dell 20 inch with a LG IPS panel, that has daily use from about 2007. There is a large blob, 2/3 the width and about 2 inches tall, near the top where it has developed image persistence. If you physically touch the panel, the blob feels hotter. I suspect it's a degradation of the ITO electrode layer as the panel ages. In any case, the only repair is to replace the entire LCD panel.

post #22 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Not retina, but tons of 1x pixel space! A niche product that I wish I could afford! Although the pixels might be too large for 2x retina usage and yet too small for legible 1x usage? Sounds like an awkward in-between.

Even more, I wish for an actual retina Thunderbolt display, around 27", to be used at 2x. 5120x2880 like those Mavericks wallpapers, please!

Apple offering this Sharp is probably a nail in that coffin for a while to come, though.

Apple's 27" display is 3.7 megapixels. This 32" Sharp is 8.3 megapixels. That's 2.24 times as large if used at 1x. But I could get close to that pixel area cheaper with a pair of Apple TB displays, if all I want is more workspace. (I'm not previewing 4k video.)

So, I'll get a good deal on a 24"-27" Dell to go with my upcoming Mac Pro. I'll appreciate the portrait rotation if nothing else. (But sadly, Dells lacks speakers by default.)

P.S. It's a little weird that Apple shows the Sharp display sitting next to an Airport base station, instead of, say, a Mac. It's not like AirPlay can push 4k... can it?

I agree. I want a 4K monitor but there's no point if it's 32", because then it's not Retina.

 

If anyone is interested in an alternative product, Dell has a 32" 4K monitor out now, the Ultrasharp UP3214Q http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=au&cs=aubsd1&l=en&s=bsd&sku=210-ACBW&redirect=1 and Dell has a good reputation for monitors.

 

But more importantly, there was a leak last week showing a 24" Ultrasharp coming with the same resolution. 3840 x 2160 at 24" will be close enough to Retina for me.

post #23 of 110

There goes the 4K AppleTV theory...or does it?

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GOA

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GOA

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post #24 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelchu View Post

Could that be the new Mac mini design? That have a standard 3.5 hard drive with PCIe flash? Just wishful thinking 1smile.gif

Good catch! I've kinda been expecting a Mini rev and a small cube like that could produce an impressively compact computer. Out one of those PCI Express SSDs in there and the machine would rock. Well rock for normal usage, I'm not convinced that a Mini would ship with the GPU horse power to drive a 4K display.
post #25 of 110
Dell just announced both a 24" and 32" 4K displays. These should both work fine with an a MacPro since these monitors both use Mini-DisplayPort.

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/secure/2013-12-2-dell-ultrasharp-ultra-hd-monitors
post #26 of 110

That 32" Sharp display has a resolution of 3840x2160, which gives 138 PPI. That would means sitting at a distance of 25" to not be able to discern individual pixels ("Retina" in Apple's terms).

 

Those 5,120-by-2,880 wallpapers would be at 218 PPI if displayed at 27". That would require a distance of 16" to be "Retina." It'd be even better if Apple put that resolution in a 24" display, which would then be 244 PPI and require a distance of just 14" to be "Retina."

post #27 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Dang, that’s about as bad as it gets, huh? I remember way back when I was teaching myself about these newfangled “flat” screens in replacing CRT and how “plasma burns in” and “LCD doesn’t”, and yet here we are with LCDs burning in. Fortunately I haven’t had any burn in, but I DO have panel damage on my 27” from something. No idea what it is; you can really only see it on certain colors, too. If the panel shows white or black it’s invisible, but on grey it just slaps you in the face. Some colors don’t show it, other colors do. No clue what it is or what caused it, but I’m out of warranty and can’t really do anything to fix it. When you buy a $1,000 panel, you expect it not to do this a year after purchase…

 

 

There’s also a much smaller patch of it (this is about an inch and a half long) at the top edge of my panel, but that’s hidden under the Menu Bar. Not that it’s acceptable, but…


I had something similar on an old Sony laptop screen, and I certainly remember how it happened.

I was cleaning the keyboard with one of those compressed-air cans with the red-straw to get into the crevices.  For whatever reason, I tipped the can in such a way so that some of the propellant - which is like 100-degrees below zero - sprayed on the screen.  It caused a very similar streak as what is on your monitor.  It did damage the LCD panel, but the colors still displayed, albeit a bit washed-out in that area.

I learned to always keep those cans away from LCD panels.  Any chance something similar happened to yours?

 

post #28 of 110
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
There goes the 4K AppleTV theory...or does it?

 

I don’t think so. The Apple TV will eventually have support for 2K displays. ;) 

 

Why do people call it 4K? It’s 2K. We measure from the short distance, not the long. What, they think they can magically change it now and no one will notice? Or maybe people are TOO STUPID to understand that 2K would have 4x the pixels of 1080p, so we have to call it “4K” because “4 is four times 1”. :no:

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #29 of 110

Not for long!

post #30 of 110
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Any chance something similar happened to yours?

 

Nope, this is internal, visibly below the glass (just not in the photo).

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #31 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Given all the glare on the product images, I would definitely say it is matte. Only matte screens cause that kind of glare.

You have it wrong. Just get any matte display and you will see that they have no glare.

post #32 of 110

28" 4K Dell is coming for under a grand. Now, that's a deal.

post #33 of 110
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post
no glare.

 

Talk about having it wrong.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #34 of 110

Crazy theory : Maybe Apple wants to help the nascent third-party 4K monitors market grow faster by not making one themselves until next year?

post #35 of 110
Edit: Oops I didn't see that other people have posted about this already.


Anyone know (based on specs I guess) how this compares to the Dell 32" 4K monitor which is a lot cheaper? Dell also has (will have?) 27" and 24" versions.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&sku=210-ACBL
post #36 of 110
Originally Posted by pandelic View Post
Anyone know (based on specs I guess) how this compares to the Dell 32" 4K monitor which is a lot cheaper?

 

No IPS and no IGZO, that’s the main thing. Also, Dell, which tells you pretty much all you need to know.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #37 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by VL-Tone View Post
 

Crazy theory : Maybe Apple wants to help the nascent third-party 4K monitors market grow faster by not making one themselves until next year?

I don't but but Phil Schiller kind of hinted there wouldn't be a 4K cinema display at WWDC. When he was showing off the the new Mac Pro plugged in to 3 4K monitors at once, he said something like "you will be able to use it with these beautiful *slight pause* 3rd party monitors"

post #38 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post

Ha ha, it's even worse! The price is in Euros, which in USD is $5,479!

$3412 USD.
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post #39 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
 

I don't but but Phil Schiller kind of hinted there wouldn't be a 4K cinema display at WWDC. When he was showing off the the new Mac Pro plugged in to 3 4K monitors at once, he said something like "you will be able to use it with these beautiful *slight pause* 3rd party monitors"

It's just an idea I was throwing out there. Doesn't Apple sometimes like to let competitors fight between themselves in an emerging market before entering it?

post #40 of 110

Wait till May:

 

Source: http://www.eizo.com/global/press/releases/htmls/rx850.html

 

Quote:
 

Press Releases

EIZO Releases 31.1" Super High Resolution 8 Megapixel Monitor for Multi-Modality Environments

  •  
  •  
  •  

RadiForce RX850Hakusan, Japan, November 27, 2013 – EIZO Corporation (TSE: 6737) announced the release of the RadiForce RX850, a 31.1-inch color LCD monitor capable of displaying 8 megapixels for multi-modality applications. The RadiForce RX850 is the successor of the RadiForce RX840-MG released last year, which was the first 8 megapixel monitor for multi-modality use.

 

EIZO’s 8 megapixel monitors act as effective replacements for multi-monitor setups for a smoother, more user-friendly environment when viewing numerous medical applications at once on a single screen. This allows medical professionals to conveniently view images side-by-side without the obtrusive bezels typically found in a multi-monitor environment.

 

The RadiForce RX850’s super high-resolution screen is capable of displaying 8 megapixels of information with an improved pixel pitch of 0.1704 mm, allowing users to view medical images in exceptional detail across its 31.1-inch screen. This makes it ideal for a variety of modalities including digital mammography, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and ultrasound. The monitor also offers an increased high contrast ratio of 1450:1 to accurately render finer details in high resolution images.

 

The RadiForce RX850 guarantees 20,000 hours of usage time when used at the recommended brightness of 500 cd/m2 – twice as many hours as the previous model.

 

Designed to take up significantly less space than its predecessor, the monitor allows 8 megapixels of detailed information to be viewed more easily across a smaller screen. To keep work space efficient, the monitor’s width, height, and depth were reduced by 149 mm, 97 mm, and 27 mm respectively – a 37% difference when compared with the previous model. The reduced screen size also contributes to less head and eye movement, making the RadiForce RX850 more suitable for comfortably viewing medical data.

 

The thinner, black front bezels are ideal for viewing the screen in dark reading rooms, making it easier to focus on images, while the original white stripe design around the sides of the monitor presents a fresh, clean aesthetic to promote a comfortable, user-friendly environment.

 

EIZO will be demonstrating the RadiForce RX850 at Booth #1735 at the 2013 Radiological Society of North America (RSNA 2013) from December 1-5 at McCormick Place in Chicago, Illinois (USA).

 

Availability

The RadiForce RX850 will be available from May, 2014. Please contact the EIZO group company or distributor in your country for details.

Product Information

About EIZO

EIZO is a leading global manufacturer of high-end visual display products. The image quality, long-term reliability, and innovative features of EIZO monitors make them the products of choice in many financial trading rooms, back offices, hospitals, air traffic control centers, and design studios throughout the world. Founded in 1968, EIZO is represented in over sixty countries by a network of group companies and exclusive distributors.

For more information, please contact:

EIZO Corporation
153 Shimokashiwano
Hakusan, Ishikawa 924-8566
Japan
Phone: +81 76 277-6792
Fax: +81 76 277-6793
www.eizo.com

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