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Apple honors Nelson Mandela on company homepage - Page 4

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebookofeli View Post

I c
I couldn't agree more, spamsandwhich has underlying racist connotations should one carefully read what he was saying. Which makes me wonder which side he would he choose had he been a German who followed hitler without questioning this wrongs. Right wings fascist tend to defend baseless things like not wanting to ban guns, He will never admit it but deep down he knows it. He will never be half the the man Mandela.

 

Since I don't know you and you obviously don't know me, I ask you the following:

 

- Is it "right wing" or "fascist" to want as little government as possible in every facet of American life, more individual responsibility and no more wars? Fascism is radical authoritarian nationalism. How am I a fascist? In fact, a good argument could be made that the current US administration is partly fascist, partly corporatist, and certainly promotes elements of Marxism.

 

- I used to think things could be solved with violence when I was young (because of government propaganda), but I've never murdered anyone. Have you? Do you think a gun should ever be used to prevent violence? If not, then you'd have a hard time defending any kind of military or police force. If you think guns only cause violence, then why allow our politicians, police or military access to them?

 

- Mandela promoted violence to end violence. What did Martin Luther King promote and was he arguably more successful, even though he died promoting his beliefs?

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post #122 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebookofeli View Post

I c
I couldn't agree more, spamsandwhich has underlying racist connotations should one carefully read what he was saying. Which makes me wonder which side he would he choose had he been a German who followed hitler without questioning this wrongs. Right wings fascist tend to defend baseless things like not wanting to ban guns, He will never admit it but deep down he knows it. He will never be half the the man Mandela.

He actually sounds like someone who doesn't take the national media's word for it.
post #123 of 144
After reading these last few comments I'm glad I didn't read the thread. Yikes!

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post #124 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Both are true. Mandela was a violent revolutionary and a Communist. Bin Laden was trained by the CIA to repel the Russians.

The upshot from the US viewpoint should be that whenever we allow our military and politicians to interfere and involve us in the affairs of other nations, no good ever comes of it.

It is not true that Mandela was a communist. In fact he was against the ANC allying with te communists. But when the party did vote for it he was in favor because as he said (paraphrasing) that when you fight oppression you don't have the luxury of choosing your allies.

If you look at the fight against apartheid, it was the communist governments which assisted the people fighting it, while the western leaders (but to their credit, not the people) branded the apartheid revolutionaries terrorists and refused to help them.

Mandela's greatness derives as much from his fight against apartheid which involved morally questionable tactics which he himself was unhappy about, his great ability to drive a process of mercy after the fight was won as opposed to retribution, and his action of giving up power keeping the long term success of SA in mind over short term personal benefits.
post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

After reading these last few comments I'm glad I didn't read the thread. Yikes!

 

LMAO! :lol:

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post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post


It is not true that Mandela was a communist. In fact he was against the ANC allying with te communists. But when the party did vote for it he was in favor because as he said (paraphrasing) that when you fight oppression you don't have the luxury of choosing your allies.

If you look at the fight against apartheid, it was the communist governments which assisted the people fighting it, while the western leaders (but to their credit, not the people) branded the apartheid revolutionaries terrorists and refused to help them.

Mandela's greatness derives as much from his fight against apartheid which involved morally questionable tactics which he himself was unhappy about, his great ability to drive a process of mercy after the fight was won as opposed to retribution, and his action of giving up power keeping the long term success of SA in mind over short term personal benefits.

 

So, the message is... Collectivism and violence are acceptable? I'm struggling to see a positive message.

 

If there is a question about my disgust regarding apartheid, let there be no doubt. It's reprehensible and it should be noted that it is still practiced in other parts of the world and our government takes a hands-off approach there also. I don't believe the US need be the police for the world either, so I'll be clear about that while I'm at it.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 12/8/13 at 3:35pm

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post #127 of 144

Mandela is revered for one reason only, his (and Desmond Tutu’s) compromise and reconciliation with the Apartheid regime. He had the intellect to realize that South Africa would descend into possibly decades of bloody civil war without it. Had he chosen to do what Robert Mugabe did in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), that is kick the Colonial Europeans out and confiscate their property for redistribution, South Africa would be mired in the same economic cesspool today that infects other African nations. And just like the civil rights struggle in the U.S. the blacks of South Africa have a long way to go to achieve parity with the remnants of the former regime who still control much of the wealth in the country. It ain’t over by a long shot. Mandela’s successors can still screw it up. 

post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

Mandela is revered for one reason only, his (and Desmond Tutu’s) compromise and reconciliation with the Apartheid regime. He had the intellect to realize that South Africa would descend into possibly decades of bloody civil war without it. Had he chosen to do what Robert Mugabe did in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), that is kick the Colonial Europeans out and confiscate their property for redistribution, South Africa would be mired in the same economic cesspool today that infects other African nations. And just like the civil rights struggle in the U.S. the blacks of South Africa have a long way to go to achieve parity with the remnants of the former regime who still control much of the wealth in the country. It ain’t over by a long shot. Mandela’s successors can still screw it up. 

 

This past week I was pleasantly surprised to find that BBC radio coverage of the passing of Mandela was quite evenhanded. They openly discussed his early revolutionary violence phase as well as the statesman he eventually became. Both parts of the man's history need to be acknowledged... something our media seem unwilling to do.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 12/8/13 at 5:44pm

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post #129 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

Quote:
Man, I am from Czechoslovakia
that's interesting as Czechoslovakia no longer exists.

So anyone born in Moscow between 1917 and 1989 isn't from the Soviet Union?
post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

So anyone born in Moscow between 1917 and 1989 isn't from the Soviet Union?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say "that's a real dickish comment" i.e., you're showing so much ignorance your membership on AI should be revoked.

At least I can block you here. Isn't science grand?

My point was that they're not from the Soviet Union NOW! There isn't a Soviet Union as of 2013 that anybody can currently be a citizen of now.

Oh, and for the record, the Soviet Union didn't officially come into being till Dec 1922, so somebody born between 1917 and Dec 1922 wasn't born in the Soviet Union at the time.
post #131 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

This is yet another bad decision taken by Apple.

 

Apple should stay out of politics.

 

You know Apple did something right when someone like you, with a history of bigotry, racism, xenophobia, and class warfare, has a problem with it. Oh, and this isn't "politics". The legacy of a transformative figure like Nelson Mandela transcends politics, countries, and boundaries- but that's not something someone like you would ever understand, acknowledge, or appreciate. Stick to discussing Apple, because with any other topic that has anything to do with humanity you show an unflattering image of your character. 

 

Good on Apple for confidently proclaiming and asserting it's values, and what it believes, even while it exposes itself to misguided and baseless criticism from the minority. The fact that it does so, so prominently, says alot about the company. 


Edited by Slurpy - 12/8/13 at 9:56pm
post #132 of 144
regardless of all our bickering, I'm proud that Apple had the courage to do this as a company.

where was:

google
microsoft
walmart
facebook
samsung
amazon (no surprises here).

Steve would be proud of Apple for doing this.
post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm not going to back to read where this all started.

My point was, when someone says "I'm from 'x'", it's fairly dickish to say 'no you aren't' when you've never even left moms basement or grad school.

It's so pointless ignorant and trolling and only reflects the ignorance of the person saying "he can't be from there it doesn't exist anymore" - and they then proceed to tell me how things were there, when they never were there and the other person was there.
Edited by vaporland - 12/8/13 at 11:21pm
post #134 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

My point was, when someone says "I'm from 'x'", it's fairly dickish to say 'no you aren't' when you've never even left moms basement or grad school.

It's so pointless ignorant and trolling and only reflects the ignorance of the person saying "he can't be from there it doesn't exist anymore" - and they then proceed to tell me how things were there, when they never were there and the other person was there.

It's ironic you accuse me of ignorance when all of what you state about me is factually incorrect yet you state it as if it were true.

You continue with your personal attacks on me, in contrast I was not attacking gabberattack personally per se, merely seeking to clarify, one aspect of his account that, to me, seemed a touch incongruous.

I think friends and family will find your false assertions that I've not been to those places most amusing.

You don't know me.
post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

The fact that you can even compare Bin Laden's role in Afghanistan with Mandela's in his South Africa is simply amazing to me.

 

With that, I'm done discussing this.

 

 

How did Osama land into this thread...? Lol... He is a totally different story... He was a byproduct of the cold war... Funded and made strong by the CIA... And then intelligently used at the end... I think we shouldn't go that way...

post #136 of 144

Why???

post #137 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

This is yet another bad decision taken by Apple.

 

Apple should stay out of politics.

 

Even though I'm not on the oh-so-edgy "let's bash Mandala" bandwagon, I agree.  As a technology company, they should be celebrating innovators and creativity.  Leave political commentary for others. 

 

Maybe they should make it a weekly feature, kind of like the Google Doodle.  I think they could find 52 innovative people a year to feature.   Put them on the front page on Monday, and have them featured on the menu bar throughout the week.  Lots of free publicity  Today's Doodle is actually the kind of person Apple should be celebrating.

post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

. . .

Excellent point! Concise, to the point, I like it.

+3
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post #139 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

My point was, when someone says "I'm from 'x'", it's fairly dickish to say 'no you aren't' when you've never even left moms basement or grad school.

It's so pointless ignorant and trolling and only reflects the ignorance of the person saying "he can't be from there it doesn't exist anymore" - and they then proceed to tell me how things were there, when they never were there and the other person was there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

It's ironic you accuse me of ignorance when all of what you state about me is factually incorrect yet you state it as if it were true.

You continue with your personal attacks on me, in contrast I was not attacking gabberattack personally per se, merely seeking to clarify, one aspect of his account that, to me, seemed a touch incongruous.

I think friends and family will find your false assertions that I've not been to those places most amusing.

You don't know me.

At this point there is no point in either one of you engaging the other on this topic. I suggest just letting this thread go and we can start up again shortly in another thread. There's plenty of miscommunication to go around. 1biggrin.gif

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post #140 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There's plenty of miscommunication to go around. 1biggrin.gif

And poor marketing!

Edited by PhilBoogie - 12/9/13 at 7:34am
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post #141 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

And poor marketing!

That's crazy but I bet it's boilerplate stuff from lawyers, including Apple's.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #142 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's crazy but I bet it's boilerplate stuff from lawyers, including Apple's.

True, but Apple earlier just gave him a new iPhone. The same model. Samsung didn't.
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post #143 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

True, but Apple earlier just gave him a new iPhone. The same model. Samsung didn't.

True, but consider Apple's volume for a particular model type and their mindshare. It behooves Apple to switch out such issues as quickly and smoothly as possible to help prevent any lawsuits, especially of the class action variety, to help mitigate any unwanted media attention. As we all know, anything Apple gets reported fast and hard — like someone being electrocuted in China due to a cheap charger and getting out of the shower wet just because an Apple product was mentioned somewhere — but with other vendors it tends it rarely ever becomes a big deal.

I would also say Apple's policy is much more streamlined to have defective devices replaced quickly but I'd also think a big part of that is because they know they have all the media focus on them at all times.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/9/13 at 8:26am

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #144 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Tim Cook has a picture of Martin Luther King in his office supposedly.

Confirmed by Tim himself:
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