or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Galaxy Note 3 phablet accounts for just 1/10 of Samsung's 2013 premium phone sales
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Galaxy Note 3 phablet accounts for just 1/10 of Samsung's 2013 premium phone sales - Page 2

post #41 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post


Extrapolate all you want, fact is Samsung has not come close to those extricated numbers or it will not have less profit than Apple. And likely even the 5 million number is Chanel fill


Samsung seems to be making lots of profit every quarter.  It is not so far off from what Apple is making.  Why less profit and more premium phones for Samsung.  Well, maybe same iteration Iphone year after year and are way overpriced and not value for money and Apple has a bigger profit margin.  Everywhere in world people are more discernible and they are not biting.  Maybe that's why iphone market share has been dropping continuously overseas.   In US, due to contract subsidy, the actual price of iphone is masked and is considered cheap at face value (but we know total cost is much higher).   Since Apple sells a huge proportion of its phone in the US, all it means is that more American are being fleeced by Apple than people outside of it.

 

Just consider this.  A  32Gb 5S retail (no contract) but looking at the spec:-

32Gb 5s retail price(no contract) > 32Gb Note3

5s 1Gb RAM << Note3 3Gb

5s 8M camera  < Note3 13M

5s 4in 640p screen << Note3 5.7in 1080p

5s sensors << Note3  has extra IR Blaster, temperature+humidity, LED notification, dual mic for stereo recording, USB host, HDMI out, SDCard slot, Wacom digitizer for S-Pen

post #42 of 119

The spin in this article is painful. This isn't Samsung's mainstream phone, but something they've grown from a niche product to a line that will sell 40-50 million additional phones, all at the highest prices Samsung sells for.  How exactly is 30 billion in additional annual revenue ever a bad thing, in a category that didn't exist 2 years ago.

 

The S4 surely has missed expectations, explaining the rushed S5 in Q1 2014. But the Note series has consistently exceeded expectations for its market. The Note 3 is rightfully considered by many to be the best device available on the market today.

post #43 of 119
Why isn't zerobim08 banned yet for shilling and jackass statements?

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #44 of 119
The ONLY reason android phones have bigger screens is because they have no other way to compete with Apple. Android have got the idiotic "bigger is better" people in their sights and that's why they don't sell as many, luckily more people have sense.

People who say "I'd buy an iPhone if it had a bigger screen" have no intention of buying an iPhone. If the iPhone was suddenly available in every 0.1" increment up to 28", they would still want a bigger screen or come up with some other crap reason why they wouldn't buy one.

Want a bigger screen? Hold it closer to your face.
Want a bigger screen so you can see around your thumbs? Go on a diet and get thinner thumbs.

Phones should be 1 handed devices.
Considering a phone spends more time in your pocket, would you rather that it fitted and not have to get clown pockets and also be restricted when you sit down.

If you want to look stupid by holding a small tv to your face, buy an android. When you want a decent phone with a top class ecosystem and OS, give your android to a child, grow up and get an adults phone.

Let's be honest, you banged on about android being open but you aren't a coder nor did you use any of the lame options that came with the open system.
post #45 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

The ONLY reason android phones have bigger screens is because they have no other way to compete with Apple. Android have got the idiotic "bigger is better" people in their sights and that's why they don't sell as many, luckily more people have sense.

Remember when it first came out the biggest complaint was that it was too big? It wasn't until the first generation LTE chips arrived which were not only large chips separate from the other cellular chips but also so power inefficient that they required much larger batteries. They felt they could one-up Apple with a "me first" product but that required a larger display to hid the extra HW.
Quote:
People who say "I'd buy an iPhone if it had a bigger screen" have no intention of buying an iPhone. If the iPhone was suddenly available in every 0.1" increment up to 28", they would still want a bigger screen or come up with some other crap reason why they wouldn't buy one.

Exactly! People that prefer the iOS ecosystem would say "I'd buy a larger screened iPhone if Apple made one, but until then I'll stick with what they currently have."
Quote:
Phones should be 1 handed devices.
Considering a phone spends more time in your pocket, would you rather that it fitted and not have to get clown pockets and also be restricted when you sit down.
I think Apple agrees with you. They seem to care about the utility of the device which is why the iPhone 5S trounces the Note 3 in tests and yet you have people like zerobim08 trying to claim that 3GB on Android is better than 1GB on iOS and that Pentile is better than an IPS display with a full color gamut. He only understands superficial spec sheet numbers with no comprehension of how they work together and how the utility of the device in important.

I suspect Apple would love a larger display on the iPhone but, like their move from the 4S to the iPhone 5 they don't want that change to a larger display to result in a heavier or greater volume device to achieve it. IGZO will allow for thinner bezels and lower power so it's quite possible that could happen without the pitfalls in utility we've seen from other vendors.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #46 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
 

Samsung sold 20 million S4 in the first two months of sales. It took Samsung another 4 months to sell another 20 million S4. Notice that sales has already halved . They went from 10 million a month to 5 million a month, in 6 months. And you think that Samsung will sell another 40 million S4 in the next 6 months. I got news for you, sales is not going to increase for an old phone. Specially after the iPhone 5s came out.  Not even Apple can sell as many of the same model iPhones in the following 3 months than in the first 3 months after it was released. Samsung won't be see a spike in sales until the Galaxy 5 (or what ever). (Though they'll see a small seasonal spike for Xmas.) Samsung S4 sales of more than 15 million in three months is history as of July 2013. 


You are just speculating isnt it?  You have no idea how many S4 will sell next 6 months (which corresponds to peak in Western countries - Oct-Dec and in Asia - Jan-Mar).    And Jan-Mar 2014 is when S4 will be heavily discounted (in anticipation of S5) which can result in a big spike.   We just have to wait a few more weeks before we know how well S4 did in the Oct-Dec 2013 quarter.    Even if it is at 15mil per quarter, that will still make S4 sales at 70mil in a year.  Add the Note2/3 sales we are looking at more than 100mil yearly for these 2 phones alone.     Compared this to Apple yearly 150mil total phone (out of which 75mil are iphone5), it is still an indisputable fact that Samsung sells more high end phones than Apple.

 

As total smartphone sales for samsung is projected to be 300mil this year, it seems that the proportion of high end phones is more likely to be 30-35% range instead of the 20% as given in OP.  This is not as high as Apple 50% but let's see how well 5s will be selling.  Considering that Apple volume growth is below market average (whereas Samsung is above), can the 5s helps win back market share?  I doubt so.

post #47 of 119

Well, DED, you comment on otherwise interesting and good article is a bit of a stretch. The rest of Samscrap premium phones (90% according to your figures) are 5", being still pretty larger than 4" iPhone and still not phablet size, so I just don't agree the poor phablet sales has anything to do with Apple not making larger screen iPhones. Yet.

 

I learned less than a year ago, we just have to start listening to TC, not just hearing him talking. He clearly said market is interested in larger size and Apple understands that, but is also not willing to sacrifice too much trade-offs that come with it. 

 

Larger screen iPhone is the fact. It's just the matter of time. And when Apple releases such phone it will be a blast, because it will be done properly from hardware to SDK, which is almost ready to support different resolutions anyway. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if such phone would be introduced on WWDC 2014 together with new version of iOS.

post #48 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

...when S4 will be heavily discounted (in anticipation of S5) which can result in a big spike.

Nothing says desirability like having to heavily discounted your own product to sell it¡ You're losing your own argument.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #49 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think Apple agrees with you. They seem to care about the utility of the device which is why the iPhone 5S trounces the Note 3 in tests and yet you have people like zerobim08 trying to claim that 3GB on Android is better than 1GB on iOS and that Pentile is better than an IPS display with a full color gamut. He only understands superficial spec sheet numbers with no comprehension of how they work together and how the utility of the device in important.
 

 

I don't want to get into the utility aspect of the device (if I did, I can highlight many iOS shortcomings as well compared to Android).

All I am saying is that in fact, it costs more (i.e. production cost) to make the Note3 than 5s.  Apple makes something like 40% gross margin whereas Samsung is around 25%.  If you like to feed Apple profit, go ahead.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Nothing says desirability like having to heavily discounted your own product to sell it¡ You're losing your own argument.


As a consumer, I welcome it. :p  Isnt that gadget business cycle.  When a new model is on the horizon, current model will be discounted.

post #50 of 119
Now he's trying to argue that a less effective product made by less effective means with less volume and less desirability means you should buy it over the iPhone simply because, by his own admission, the company in question is unable to attract valuable buyers. Fucking pathetic! 1oyvey.gif

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #51 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Well, but you cant deny that there is a HUGE market waiting for a bigger screen iPhone.

Because While the Note 3 may not be selling that well. Most other Android Phone still have 4.3 - 5" Screen Size.

Apple would need to take away the Bezel in order to create a Phone that has larger screen while still works with one hand.

80% of Abdroid phone are around 4" or smaller. That's been publish to death this year. Anything bigger than 4" only account for about 7% of total android phone sales (or shipment?) mostly in South Korea. Where one company call Samsung control 15% of the country's economy. Again tons of article out there. And for those who cares. Go to Shenzhen (where just about every phone are being made) to take a look.

And a simple test, go to any Starbucks in China. You don't see lots of people putting their Android whatever on the table for show. A gold iPhone will be put on its own table 1wink.gif

So I don't see which part indicate "huge" demand.
post #52 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

Stop trying to do math here and just run with whatever sounds best for Apple :p

 

Although if you carry the author's own math and logic forward, in this very article he has proven that the iPhone 5s/5c are wildly unpopular failures.

 

He states Apple sold 9 million 5s/5c models in a weekend.  He also states that a total of 150 million iPhones were sold in a year.

 

Do the math!  9 million only accounts for 6% of Apples annual sales of 150 million!!!!  This debunks the common myth that that iPhone 5s is quite popular!

 

So to show apple in poor light just for the heck of it you would go to any lengths...? You compare the launch weekend sales to yearly sales to prove the 5S and 5C are failures...!

 

Truly mind boggling...

post #53 of 119
Look around, how often do you see a Samsung phone. Listen, how often do you hear someone wanting a Samsung phone. I had two friends who bought the Note 3, and quickly returned them for a iPhone. Haven't heard any Christmas wishes for a $175.00 tablet.

My favorite is Microsoft commercial saying their table has a keyboard and a USB port. Isn't that just a laptop? Tablets don't need keyboards.
post #54 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 


You are just speculating isnt it?  You have no idea how many S4 will sell next 6 months (which corresponds to peak in Western countries - Oct-Dec and in Asia - Jan-Mar).    And Jan-Mar 2014 is when S4 will be heavily discounted (in anticipation of S5) which can result in a big spike.   We just have to wait a few more weeks before we know how well S4 did in the Oct-Dec 2013 quarter.    Even if it is at 15mil per quarter, that will still make S4 sales at 70mil in a year.  Add the Note2/3 sales we are looking at more than 100mil yearly for these 2 phones alone.     Compared this to Apple yearly 150mil total phone (out of which 75mil are iphone5), it is still an indisputable fact that Samsung sells more high end phones than Apple.

 

As total smartphone sales for samsung is projected to be 300mil this year, it seems that the proportion of high end phones is more likely to be 30-35% range instead of the 20% as given in OP.  This is not as high as Apple 50% but let's see how well 5s will be selling.  Considering that Apple volume growth is below market average (whereas Samsung is above), can the 5s helps win back market share?  I doubt so.

I'm speculating? And you want to use the sales numbers of from the first 6 months of the Galaxy S4 to come up with a sales figure for a whole year. The sales numbers already don't come close to that. Samsung originally said that they will sell more than 100 million S4 in a year. That comes to an average of about 8.5 Million a month. In the first 6 months that average had already dropped to about 6.5 million a month. (40 million S4 sold in 6 months) In August of 2013, the six month point, they sold only 5 million S4. I doubt that in the next 3 month after, that they even have 15 million in S4 sales. No wonder they had to come out and annouce that the more than 100 million number now includes all their high end smart phones, not just the S4. 

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-hits-40-million-sales-mark-ceo-jk-shin-insists-device-not-trouble-amid-slowing

post #55 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 

 

I don't want to get into the utility aspect of the device (if I did, I can highlight many iOS shortcomings as well compared to Android).

All I am saying is that in fact, it costs more (i.e. production cost) to make the Note3 than 5s.  Apple makes something like 40% gross margin whereas Samsung is around 25%.  If you like to feed Apple profit, go ahead.

 


As a consumer, I welcome it. :p  Isnt that gadget business cycle.  When a new model is on the horizon, current model will be discounted.

I willing to bet Samsung makes about the same 40% margin on their high end Galaxy line as Apple makes on their iPhones. What brings down Samsung margin is that they sell a lot and a lot and a lot (did I mention a lot?) of not so smart phones with margins well below 25%. Where as Apple don't play that game.   

post #56 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelchu View Post


80% of Abdroid phone are around 4" or smaller. That's been publish to death this year. Anything bigger than 4" only account for about 7% of total android phone sales (or shipment?) mostly in South Korea. Where one company call Samsung control 15% of the country's economy. Again tons of article out there. And for those who cares. Go to Shenzhen (where just about every phone are being made) to take a look.

And a simple test, go to any Starbucks in China. You don't see lots of people putting their Android whatever on the table for show. A gold iPhone will be put on its own table 1wink.gif

So I don't see which part indicate "huge" demand.

 

You're pretty far off.

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 85

post #57 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
 

I willing to bet Samsung makes about the same 40% margin on their high end Galaxy line as Apple makes on their iPhones. What brings down Samsung margin is that they sell a lot and a lot and a lot (did I mention a lot?) of not so smart phones with margins well below 25%. Where as Apple don't play that game.   


Apple 40% margin is for their entire range, isnt it?   Maybe if you just take 5/5s margin, it would be much higher than 40%.

post #58 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 


And Jan-Mar 2014 is when S4 will be heavily discounted (in anticipation of S5) which can result in a big spike.   

 

If they're going to heavily discount the S4 before they release the S5, they better be sure that the S5 is worth that much more buying. Because if it isn't, then why would anyone pay that much more for it. All a heavy discount will do is cannibalize other phone sales, either the cheaper phones or the new one coming out. And Samsung sells phones in all price ranges. 

 

And if you actually believe that Samsung margin in only 25%, then how much can they really discount it and you still call it a heavy discount, without losing money on every sale. But on the other hand, if they have to get rid of a ton of excess inventory due to way slower than expected sales, then I guess it might be the best thing to do. Even if it's going to eat into the new S5 sales.  

post #59 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
 

I'm speculating? And you want to use the sales numbers of from the first 6 months of the Galaxy S4 to come up with a sales figure for a whole year. The sales numbers already don't come close to that. Samsung originally said that they will sell more than 100 million S4 in a year. That comes to an average of about 8.5 Million a month. In the first 6 months that average had already dropped to about 6.5 million a month. (40 million S4 sold in 6 months) In August of 2013, the six month point, they sold only 5 million S4. I doubt that in the next 3 month after, that they even have 15 million in S4 sales. No wonder they had to come out and annouce that the more than 100 million number now includes all their high end smart phones, not just the S4. 

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-hits-40-million-sales-mark-ceo-jk-shin-insists-device-not-trouble-amid-slowing

 

Well, I'm not sure whether the 100mil S4 projection came from Samsung or analysts.  But 80mil is the current projection which I have used in my calculations.   You said in Aug 2013 it sold 5mil but that's a low month.  It is not too far-fetched that the 5mil can be maintained or improved over the peak months from from Nov - Feb.

 

Looking at Samsung which reported sales volume/profit has been increasing y-o-y and q-o-q,  it just common sense that the QUANTITY of high-end phones sales would also increase in tandem (with some variance).  Otherwise it is just illogical that in one quarter Samsung sold high proportion of high-ends but suddenly in the next quarter the volume drops dramatically even though the overall volume has increased.

post #60 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 


Apple 40% margin is for their entire range, isnt it?   Maybe if you just take 5/5s margin, it would be much higher than 40%.

I doubt it. The newest phones (products) usually has the lowest margin. Specially if the new phones (products) have new features not found in the older ones. It's the older phones that have the higher margin because the RD that went into it have already been re-captured, they don't need to adverise it as much, and the older parts for it are cheaper. Even if they discount the older phones, I bet they will still have a higher or the same margin as a brand new product.  

post #61 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

.... the iPhone 5s/5c are wildly unpopular failures....

 

 

My greetings to the people of Mars! How are things over there? Still red? How's the water?

post #62 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 


Samsung seems to be making lots of profit every quarter.  It is not so far off from what Apple is making.  Why less profit and more premium phones for Samsung.  Well, maybe same iteration Iphone year after year and are way overpriced and not value for money and Apple has a bigger profit margin.  Everywhere in world people are more discernible and they are not biting.  Maybe that's why iphone market share has been dropping continuously overseas.   In US, due to contract subsidy, the actual price of iphone is masked and is considered cheap at face value (but we know total cost is much higher).   Since Apple sells a huge proportion of its phone in the US, all it means is that more American are being fleeced by Apple than people outside of it.

 

 

Wild guesses and misses....

 

1. First of all, it is impossible to say, how much profits Samscrap really makes, because the mobile division can insource major components for undisclosed pricing and terms.

 

2. iPhone market share is rising on many markets. Also in Germany, for example, where Android share is traditionally extremely high. It is normal that Apple had seen a market share drop, since they started with 100%. There wasn't a finger touch screen smartphone before. However, it shows already that market share erosion has stopped and they are even bouncing back on mature markets. However, they always lead by far when comparing overall market share with premium market share.

 

3. iPhone sales number increase is caused heavily by direct sales and above all: sales without contract. Subsidized phones do not make the growth. I find this pretty amazing for "overpriced" phone, don't you?

post #63 of 119
Well, if we ignore the usual ignorant people that will come here and say that the iPhone is shot and that the note 3 has better specs, we would still have a problem.

I realize that a blogger doesn't have to be particularly gifted at statistics and math, but common sense is always imperative.

If we do the math and realize that at least 3/10s of Samsung sales are s4 and note3,and then we add the numbers of the s4 mini, note 2,s3 and maybe s3 mini, while ignoring all those other models that Samsung sells, we reach a very big number.

Then, if you want to believe that Samsung sells more than all other android oems together, we still get a number that is larger than all the iPhone being sold, on the high end alone.

Of course, all of those models have screens bigger than the iPhone, most at 5",wich shows how stupid this article really is.
post #64 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
 

 

If they're going to heavily discount the S4 before they release the S5, they better be sure that the S5 is worth that much more buying. Because if it isn't, then why would anyone pay that much more for it. All a heavy discount will do is cannibalize other phone sales, either the cheaper phones or the new one coming out. And Samsung sells phones in all price ranges. 

 

And if you actually believe that Samsung margin in only 25%, then how much can they really discount it and you still call it a heavy discount, without losing money on every sale. But on the other hand, if they have to get rid of a ton of excess inventory due to way slower than expected sales, then I guess it might be the best thing to do. Even if it's going to eat into the new S5 sales.  

 

Of course, when I said discount doesnt mean the phones are given away for free.  Price maybe discount 20-25% for the older phone and when the new phone launch it will be at the older phone price before discount.   Even the 5 was discounted quite a lot (with offers all over) before the 5s came out.  Same practice by other manufacturer as well.  I don't know why you want to debate on this.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
 

I doubt it. The newest phones (products) usually has the lowest margin. Specially if the new phones (products) have new features not found in the older ones. It's the older phones that have the higher margin because the RD that went into it have already been re-captured, they don't need to adverise it as much, and the older parts for it are cheaper. Even if they discount the older phones, I bet they will still have a higher or the same margin as a brand new product.  

 

Then if this is true (which I am not so sure), it would apply to both Apple and Samsung as well.  However, all we know is the overall profit margin as reported is much higher for Apple than Samsung.  This is the only fact we know.  Any other postulations are just speculation.

post #65 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

I realize that a blogger doesn't have to be particularly gifted at statistics and math, but common sense is always imperative.

If we do the math and realize that at least 3/10s of Samsung sales are s4 and note3,and then we add the numbers of the s4 mini, note 2,s3 and maybe s3 mini, while ignoring all those other models that Samsung sells, we reach a very big number.

Then, if you want to believe that Samsung sells more than all other android oems together, we still get a number that is larger than all the iPhone being sold, on the high end alone.
 

 

Hell, yeah! Let's make all SG phones over and including 4" screen size a high end phones. Why stop with mini? Let's add some 20 models and variations if there are more!

 

Apple has predicted such misguided comparisons and introduce 5C. SO, the comparison game, although stupid is 5c/5s versus S4/Note 3. The latter duo will sell much, much less.

post #66 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post
 

 

Wild guesses and misses....

 

1. First of all, it is impossible to say, how much profits Samscrap really makes, because the mobile division can insource major components for undisclosed pricing and terms.

 

2. iPhone market share is rising on many markets. Also in Germany, for example, where Android share is traditionally extremely high. It is normal that Apple had seen a market share drop, since they started with 100%. There wasn't a finger touch screen smartphone before. However, it shows already that market share erosion has stopped and they are even bouncing back on mature markets. However, they always lead by far when comparing overall market share with premium market share.

 

3. iPhone sales number increase is caused heavily by direct sales and above all: sales without contract. Subsidized phones do not make the growth. I find this pretty amazing for "overpriced" phone, don't you?

1.  Go and read Samsung quarter report and it will tell you.  I doubt accounting practice allows the reporting of higher price than actually paid when it is sourced from another division of the same company.

 

2.  Seems iphone share still is falling.

http://www.tech-thoughts.net/2013/11/smartphone-market-share-by-country-q3-2013.html#.UqglFeUdhvk

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/12/windows-phone-android-gain-market-share-while-apple-slips-despite-growth-in-iphone-shipments/

 

3. You got it all wrong.  40% iphone sales are in US which are subsidized.  And iOS has regained some grounds against Android in US.  In the rest of the world, sales has been slumping.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post
 

 

Hell, yeah! Let's make all SG phones over and including 4" screen size a high end phones. Why stop with mini? Let's add some 20 models and variations if there are more!

 

Apple has predicted such misguided comparisons and introduce 5C. SO, the comparison game, although stupid is 5c/5s versus S4/Note 3. The latter duo will sell much, much less.


From reports, the overly priced 5c itself maybe a bomb.  So you are left with 5s and the very much aged 4s to hold the fort..  

post #67 of 119
post #68 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 

 

Well, I'm not sure whether the 100mil S4 projection came from Samsung or analysts.  But 80mil is the current projection which I have used in my calculations.   You said in Aug 2013 it sold 5mil but that's a low month.  It is not too far-fetched that the 5mil can be maintained or improved over the peak months from from Nov - Feb.

 

Looking at Samsung which reported sales volume/profit has been increasing y-o-y and q-o-q,  it just common sense that the QUANTITY of high-end phones sales would also increase in tandem (with some variance).  Otherwise it is just illogical that in one quarter Samsung sold high proportion of high-ends but suddenly in the next quarter the volume drops dramatically even though the overall volume has increased.

I  believe it came from Samsung CEO himself during a press conference or company meeting. Samsung made the same mistake you're making. Only they did it much earlier with the S4 sales numbers. Because the S4 was the fastest selling phone in Samsung history, based on 2 months sales data, they figure that the S3 (the fastest selling phone by Samsung at the time) will surpass the S3 in units sold by a large margin. At the time the S3 sold over 60 million in a year it's been on sale and since the new S4 was selling 1.7 times as fast, they firgure the S4 would sell from 80 to 100 million, easily. But that didn't pan out as sales plummeted in the following months. At the rate it's going, there's a chance that the S4 might not even surpass the S3 one year sales numbers.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-to-retire-the-galaxy-s3-early-cut-s4-production-7000017135/

 

 

Samsung have been making up for the lower that expected sales in their high end phones by selling a lot and a lot and a lot (did I mention a lot?) of low end smart phones. No doubt low end smart phones are profitable, but Samsung most likely have to sell 2 or 3 of them to make the same profit as a high end smart phone. We don't have too speculate on this. If Samsung makes the same or nearly the same profit on their low end phones as their high end phones, then their overall profit would easily be 3 times that of Apple just based on how many more phones we know Samsung sells vs Apple. And we know that's not even close to the case.

post #69 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 

1.  Go and read Samsung quarter report and it will tell you.  I doubt accounting practice allows the reporting of higher price than actually paid when it is sourced from another division of the same company.

 

2.  Seems iphone share still is falling.

http://www.tech-thoughts.net/2013/11/smartphone-market-share-by-country-q3-2013.html#.UqglFeUdhvk

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/12/windows-phone-android-gain-market-share-while-apple-slips-despite-growth-in-iphone-shipments/

 

3. You got it all wrong.  40% iphone sales are in US which are subsidized.  And iOS has regained some grounds against Android in US.  In the rest of the world, sales has been slumping.

 

 

 

 


From reports, the overly priced 5c itself maybe a bomb.  So you are left with 5s and the very much aged 4s to hold the fort..  

 

1. No, it doesn't. It allows only transparent, market prices. But this is a grey area and some of the profits may always flow around sister companies when required. Actually, it is a pretty much standard procedure, especially with international companies. 

 

2. No, it is not falling. Even from Gartner, which is the most Apple hostile source you can see that long term trend is totally steady, or Apple is even bouncing. You know perfectly well that slowly declining graph in last few months before releasing new iPhones while all others boasted fresh models is by all means not a general trend, so you are trolling.

 

3. It is less than 40%, actually a little more than a third. And this was BEFORE China Mobile and NTT DocoMo. This was the reason why has Apple struggled with market share in those 2 big markets. As long as there are users with feature phones, there is a place to grow for SG. But after that, you will see the churn of many users to Apple. And they rarely go to Little Green Robot phones. Actually, this started to happen already.

 

5C: Dream on. First 9 most sold phones in japan are now iPhones, most sold are actually 5C. And this is happening in country with big living standard. And even if 5C would be overpriced, for every 5C not sold, there is a 5S sold, not S4 or whatever. This is very far from failure, I would say. BTW: do you think phones are only subsidized in US? Are only iPhones subsidized? What kind of counterargument are you placing here, anyway?

 

 

In any case, we will see the sales figures by the end of January and it will be again: but, but, but,...this is a surprise :)


Edited by poksi - 12/11/13 at 2:03am
post #70 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 

 

Of course, when I said discount doesnt mean the phones are given away for free.  Price maybe discount 20-25% for the older phone and when the new phone launch it will be at the older phone price before discount.   Even the 5 was discounted quite a lot (with offers all over) before the 5s came out.  Same practice by other manufacturer as well.  I don't know why you want to debate on this.

 

 

 

Then if this is true (which I am not so sure), it would apply to both Apple and Samsung as well.  However, all we know is the overall profit margin as reported is much higher for Apple than Samsung.  This is the only fact we know.  Any other postulations are just speculation.

Apple has no competition from any company in the 4 inch or under category. There are essentially no premium smartphones other than Apple/s in that category.

 

The reason for this is that the Android premium market was driven, as someone pointed out earlier, by the need for larger batteries to compete with Apple's benchmark for battery life, and larger than 4 inch screens were designed in at the same time. That has been a good strategy, but Samsung in its efforts to gain market share, overproduced the S4, the excess of which was marketed at lower ASP's that exposed Samsung to significant sales and marketing costs that exceeded $10B dollars. Apple may have lost some sales to the S and Notes, but Samsung also had to market against other premium flagships like LG and HTC. The result is a much lower ASP for its premium models than previous years.

 

Samsung did sell more phones overall, but its premium devices collectively did not exceed the total number of iPhones that Apple sold. Now you have stated that Apple's mix isn't really all premium phones, yet all of Apple's pricing is at premium price points. The buyer's of Apple iPhone consider them premium devices, albeit a small percentage are not flagship performance.

 

When Apple gives sales numbers for iPhones, they aren't broken down by model, but analysts can derive the ASP from the revenue and volume of sales. This is much more difficult for Samsung, but even using the best numbers, Samsung's marketing expense is some 10x of Apple's and the ASP for phones even in total volumes that Samsung sold/shipped did not support that same profit levels that Apple did, albeit some analysts tried to compare the two; see DED's post on that for the details.

 

Bottom line is that you aren't really making your case.

 

Should Apple deliver an additional large screen iPhone model next year, I would expect it to be a benchmark for the industry, just as the current iPhone 5S is the undeniable benchmark at 4 inch and below. Many would argue, as I would, that the iPhone 5S is already the benchmark for the industry, but being as though it isn't as large or feature rich as the collection of Android and WP competitors, others would disagree.

 

What can be surmised is that any pent of desire for a larger iPhone model will be met with blockbuster sales, and I believe that this would cull the herd of premium Android devices, driving down ASP's even lower.

 

But Android owns the lower end market, so keep pushing that meme.

post #71 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

 

Hell, yeah! Let's make all SG phones over and including 4" screen size a high end phones. Why stop with mini? Let's add some 20 models and variations if there are more!

 

Apple has predicted such misguided comparisons and introduce 5C. SO, the comparison game, although stupid is 5c/5s versus S4/Note 3. The latter duo will sell much, much less.

I think that you should apply to a school if you can't read.

 

It is very fair to include the numbers of those s4 and s3 mini models, since Apple itself includes the numbers of iPhones that go as low as the 4. Just because the iPhone 4 (it is still being sold in China, right?) is so badly priced, it doesn't mean that those 2 Samsung models shouldn't be included.

 

And who the hell do you think you are to decide witch comparisons we should make? The facts are clear:

 

- Samsung alone sells the same number, close, if not more of high end smartphones than Apple.

- All of them have bigger screens;

- They make more money (or the same, at least for 1 or 2 more quarters) from phones than Apple, so their business is better/equal.

- All of those high end phones from other OEMs have a bigger screen.

- Bigger screens clearly outsell the iPhone.

 

There's a huge market for such devices and Apple has been stupid, very stupid, very incompetent when they chose to not address it.

And guess what, they are paying a huge price for it:

 

- 0 growth in net profit (Actually, a small decline).

- Samsung catch up in net profit.

post #72 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

Extrapolate it will give 15mil note3 in a quarter. We know s4 sold 40 mil in two months so that's 20 mil per quarter. This give a total of 35 mil.

Apple best quarter is when it sold 47 mil phones and roughly half of these are high ends (I.e 23.5 mil)

With just 2 models in the premium range samsung still sold at least 50 percent more premium phones than apple.

Looking at it straight on not a roundabout way gives a completely different picture than this article.

 

If you want to count it that way, all *2* of Apple's current phone models are also "high ends" -- and I think "just" the 5S and 5C in Apple's "premium range" account for more than half Apple's iPhone sales; I don't think half of Apple's sales are iPhone 4S; please show the figures to that effect.

 

Also, you are happy to "extrapolate" Samsung sales as though the sales will be consistent month after month, quarter after quarter. Oh? But, you can't extrapolate from Apple's best quarter? Apple's iPhone sales (absolute sales -- not necessarily rate of sales growth, or acceleration of growth) consistently grow YOY with a QOQ dip right after Christmas, and have done so for 7 years. And we now have China's largest carrier supplying the iPhone for the first time. And sales in Japan were particularly good recently...

 

So, lots of positives for iPhone outlook, if you care to look -- none of which is requiring 14B in continued annual marketing spending (it would be sad if Samsung didn't sell 40M of each model).

 

Oh, and the 5S alone has now reached a production run of about 500K per day!

 

Hmmm, I guess you know something we don't! Maybe some good news about Samsung's premium phone sales that no-one else really knows, because Samsung still remains quite closed-lipped and opaque about their actual sales performances.


Edited by krabbelen - 12/11/13 at 2:11am
post #73 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

I think that you should apply to a school if you can't read.

 

It is very fair to include the numbers of those s4 and s3 mini models, since Apple itself includes the numbers of iPhones that go as low as the 4. Just because the iPhone 4 (it is still being sold in China, right?) is so badly priced, it doesn't mean that those 2 Samsung models shouldn't be included.

 

And who the hell do you think you are to decide witch comparisons we should make? The facts are clear:

 

- Samsung alone sells the same number, close, if not more of high end smartphones than Apple.

- All of them have bigger screens;

- They make more money (or the same, at least for 1 or 2 more quarters) from phones than Apple, so their business is better/equal.

- All of those high end phones from other OEMs have a bigger screen.

- Bigger screens clearly outsell the iPhone.

 

There's a huge market for such devices and Apple has been stupid, very stupid, very incompetent when they chose to not address it.

And guess what, they are paying a huge price for it:

 

- 0 growth in net profit (Actually, a small decline).

- Samsung catch up in net profit.

 

Patronizing will not give you any credibility, it will make you funny, but not humorous.

 

As you made yourself a list of high end phones, so did I, and who are you to tell me what is allowed to be compared or not. Therefore i don't include 4S, not to mention 4 in Apple high end, because they are ancient technology nowadays. On the other hand, your primary differentiator is obviously screen size, which is also funny. 

 

The facts you listed are either wrong, wished or irrelevant. Direct comparison of the profits is also way off, since the have very different business model. TC said not so long ago that Apple is not in the junk business and there won't be cheap iPhone. The settle with by far largest price and profit per unit and even units sold are pretty big.

 

Once there will all users have smartphones, Apple's market share will rise significantly. Not to mention impact of new carriers and larger screen version. Apple has arsenal waiting, while Sams has fired all the bullets in a short time.

post #74 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
 

I  believe it came from Samsung CEO himself during a press conference or company meeting. Samsung made the same mistake you're making. Only they did it much earlier with the S4 sales numbers. Because the S4 was the fastest selling phone in Samsung history, based on 2 months sales data, they figure that the S3 (the fastest selling phone by Samsung at the time) will surpass the S3 in units sold by a large margin. At the time the S3 sold over 60 million in a year it's been on sale and since the new S4 was selling 1.7 times as fast, they firgure the S4 would sell from 80 to 100 million, easily. But that didn't pan out as sales plummeted in the following months. At the rate it's going, there's a chance that the S4 might not even surpass the S3 one year sales numbers.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-to-retire-the-galaxy-s3-early-cut-s4-production-7000017135/

 

 

Samsung have been making up for the lower that expected sales in their high end phones by selling a lot and a lot and a lot (did I mention a lot?) of low end smart phones. No doubt low end smart phones are profitable, but Samsung most likely have to sell 2 or 3 of them to make the same profit as a high end smart phone. We don't have too speculate on this. If Samsung makes the same or nearly the same profit on their low end phones as their high end phones, then their overall profit would easily be 3 times that of Apple just based on how many more phones we know Samsung sells vs Apple. And we know that's not even close to the case.

 

This is just one analyst speculation.  But this was proven wrong at the end of Sep (3 months after this article) when Samsung announced S4 posted a healthy 40mil in just 6 months which is like 7 mil monthly.  All these doomsayers have been blacked faced.   On more recent articles, I don't see any of these analysts still uses the 60mil figure which means a 3.3 mil per month for next 6 months which more is than 50% drop from avg figure for the previous 6 months.  This is highly improbable given overall sales volume/profit has be going up.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post
 

Apple has no competition from any company in the 4 inch or under category. There are essentially no premium smartphones other than Apple/s in that category.

 

The reason for this is that the Android premium market was driven, as someone pointed out earlier, by the need for larger batteries to compete with Apple's benchmark for battery life, and larger than 4 inch screens were designed in at the same time. That has been a good strategy, but Samsung in its efforts to gain market share, overproduced the S4, the excess of which was marketed at lower ASP's that exposed Samsung to significant sales and marketing costs that exceeded $10B dollars. Apple may have lost some sales to the S and Notes, but Samsung also had to market against other premium flagships like LG and HTC. The result is a much lower ASP for its premium models than previous years.

 

Samsung did sell more phones overall, but its premium devices collectively did not exceed the total number of iPhones that Apple sold. Now you have stated that Apple's mix isn't really all premium phones, yet all of Apple's pricing is at premium price points. The buyer's of Apple iPhone consider them premium devices, albeit a small percentage are not flagship performance.

 

When Apple gives sales numbers for iPhones, they aren't broken down by model, but analysts can derive the ASP from the revenue and volume of sales. This is much more difficult for Samsung, but even using the best numbers, Samsung's marketing expense is some 10x of Apple's and the ASP for phones even in total volumes that Samsung sold/shipped did not support that same profit levels that Apple did, albeit some analysts tried to compare the two; see DED's post on that for the details.

 

Bottom line is that you aren't really making your case.

 

Should Apple deliver an additional large screen iPhone model next year, I would expect it to be a benchmark for the industry, just as the current iPhone 5S is the undeniable benchmark at 4 inch and below. Many would argue, as I would, that the iPhone 5S is already the benchmark for the industry, but being as though it isn't as large or feature rich as the collection of Android and WP competitors, others would disagree.

 

What can be surmised is that any pent of desire for a larger iPhone model will be met with blockbuster sales, and I believe that this would cull the herd of premium Android devices, driving down ASP's even lower.

 

But Android owns the lower end market, so keep pushing that meme.

 

So a 4 or 4s which are given "free" on contract are considered a more premium phone compared to S4/S3 which are not free?  What kind of logic is this?  

 

Why care about the micro details (like ads spending etc)?  Given that overall Samsung smartphone volume/earning is growing faster than Apple and those records sales of high ends should have an impact.  You are naive to not think so.

 

If Apple comes out with a larger screen phone, that's 1 year down the road.  Who knows what kind of phone Samsung can come out with 1 year from now.  


Edited by zerobim08 - 12/11/13 at 2:11am
post #75 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

 

Once there will all users have smartphones, Apple's market share will rise significantly. Not to mention impact of new carriers and larger screen version. Apple has arsenal waiting, while Sams has fired all the bullets in a short time.

I'm not going to address the rest of your post because it would be a clear waste of time.

 

About this bit... Of course Apple is the innovative company, the one that changes things. But don't be foolish to believe that  " Sams has fired all the bullets in a short time". Curved displays, 4k, more cores, more ram, more features... Samsung won't stop.

 

Apple doesn't need to have another iPhone line to survive, I'm not stupid. In fact, Apple doesn't need another iPhone line to stay insanely wealthy, but that's not the point.

 

Do they want more? Do they want more money and growth? Do they want to make a better iPhone (for many)? Do they want to address the other half of the premium segment that clearly despises iPhones because they have smaller screens, despite being better overall?

 

Of course they want, it's just that they underestimated how quickly Samsung grew. That's 15 billion in advertising for you.

 

 And again, as demonstrated by the price of the 13" cmbp, iphone 4 and 4s, iPad mini, ipad 2, mac mini... Apple would sell toilets if they could have 40 % margins in them.

 

Don't get me wrong, if you have the brains to develop very smart designs and processes to reduce costs and improve quality, invest and change industries for the better, and have the best product, you deserve those margins, if not more. I love the 5s. But those products i mentioned... Oh boy.

post #76 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 

 

Of course, when I said discount doesnt mean the phones are given away for free.  Price maybe discount 20-25% for the older phone and when the new phone launch it will be at the older phone price before discount.   Even the 5 was discounted quite a lot (with offers all over) before the 5s came out.  Same practice by other manufacturer as well.  I don't know why you want to debate on this.

 

 

 

Then if this is true (which I am not so sure), it would apply to both Apple and Samsung as well.  However, all we know is the overall profit margin as reported is much higher for Apple than Samsung.  This is the only fact we know.  Any other postulations are just speculation.

But  Apple was going to discontinue the 5 after the 5c/5s comes out. They sold off what little inventory remained to make room for the 5c. As far as I know the Galaxy S3 is still for sale. Even the S2 is still for sale. Or at least some versions of them. And it's been one and half year since they introduced the S3. Maybe if they had discontinue it or a least not offered it at a heavy discount for so long, the S4 sales wouldn't be as low as they are. Figure many don't see any real value of paying more for the S4 and will wait for the S5. 

 

 

I hate to make you look less inform than you're already making yourself to be, but that 40% number is not Apple profit margin, it's Apple average gross margin. Big difference. Samsung Electronics has a gross margin of about 39% (google it) and Samsung Mobile division represent 2/3's of it's revenue. The profit margin for Samsung Corp. is anywhere from 19% to 23%. Apple, Inc. profit margin is also in the low 20's when all the other expenses of running a company is factored in. (Taxes and rent for example). Profit margin is calculated by deducting  ALL the cost of running a company from it's revenue. Gross margin is calculated by deducting only the cost of making and selling a product from how much revenue it brings in. The profit margin is one number. However, the average gross margin is composed many numbers. Each product has it's own gross margin. Some are high, some are low. The number reported by Apple (and other companies) is an average. Apple do not break down the gross number of each product.  

post #77 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

I'm not going to address the rest of your post because it would be a clear waste of time.

 

About this bit... Of course Apple is the innovative company, the one that changes things. But don't be foolish to believe that  " Sams has fired all the bullets in a short time". Curved displays, 4k, more cores, more ram, more features... Samsung won't stop.

 

 

Very smooth, way to go! :D  No answer at hand, so it must be a waste of time for a genius like you on a illiterate like me, right?

 

But I agree with you on this one: more features.... What you listed are hardware and features, innovation is when you bundle those into a whole new product or product functionality that makes the change of how and for what device is used. Fingerscan on 5s is therefore not an innovation in my eyes. 

 

The point is that such "innovations" are coming out continuously and their purpose will not change: it's a characteristics war and Sammy got the share of crowd who takes that. There will be no more. 

post #78 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post
 


Apple 40% margin is for their entire range, isnt it?   Maybe if you just take 5/5s margin, it would be much higher than 40%.

 

 

Oh boy. You really don't know how the margin works, do you? As a matter of fact, older iPhones get higher margins! That's why Apple warns in quarterly calls that margins will drop due to new products coming out!

 

It's about lowering the cost per unit, and that only happens on popular items that continue to sell. Here's how it basically works:

 

First, Apple kind of says, "we'd like to go for 30-35 percent margins on all our products; that gives us comfort knowing that we can continue to run a viable company and develop the products and services in the way people have come to expect."

 

So, with that in mind, Apple develops a new iPhone, say, with a new case, etc. It's in the works a couple of years and there are one-time development costs, plant and assembly line equipment to invest in, etc. (this is separate from component costs, which Apple also does well with through economies of scale)

 

Having established historic price points and done their market research etc., Apple says, you know, we'd like to think we could sell 100M of this particular phone model in a year or 18 months [kind of like Samsung said about its phones]. We hope they are that popular. If we can sell the projected 100M, we can make all these one-time costs back while still retaining the basic margin we are shooting for.

 

But, guess what, Apple not only sells more than 100M of that model in its first year... but a given iPhone model actually continues to sell well for multiple years! Who'd a thunk it! Therefore, the cost per unit, over time, comes down and down -- because all the fixed costs were amortized over just the first 100M units. You make more of something, each unit is cheaper to produce when your total costs for the whole life of the product are added up -- that's common business sense.

 

So, Apple can lower the price of older iPhones by 100 dollars, and still make more margin on them! Because each phone model is so popular it sells more than 100M units (or whatever). Far from being an indication of Apple's greed, this is actually a testament to the huge success and popularity of each iPhone! People still buy the iPhone 4S because it is a good product; and Apple didn't expect to sell so many! (For one thing, you could put iOS 7 on the 4S the day iOS 7 was released by clicking a button, give the thing a new lease of life -- yeah, real greedy of Apple. I'll be using my 4S through 2014.)

 

This is where Samsung and everyone else would love to be, but don't have the balls and focus to commit to refining just a couple of products -- they have to throw things against the wall to see what sticks; and they have to rinse and repeat every six months to stay above water. They have to sell at low margins because they are competing on price, not differentiation. They can't make better margins -- no-one would buy the product. It's a race to the bottom, as in PCs.

 

 

[BTW, when comparing specs on paper, you can do a little better than just comparing pixel count on cameras, for example. Comparing Megapixel count is like comparing number of doors between car models. Yep, a four-door car is always better than a two-door car! LOL

 

You could look at lens specs, lens quality and materials, pixel density on capture chip (and therefore color, reduced noise and better picture quality of resulting images, etc), color space, image capture and processing software, etc. Photos from the iPhone are consistently judged to be the best, and account for quite a majority of Flikr and Twitter and other online photos.]


Edited by krabbelen - 12/11/13 at 2:55am
post #79 of 119

My readings are that Samsung's mobile margins are 17% to 19%, driven down by the product mix and marketing and sales cost. Semiconductor profits increased primarily due to increased sales of non volatile memory. Not seeing the 40% margins, but even then, Samsung Electronics profits were less than Apple's.

 

Interestingly, only some mid 50's percentage of Apple's profits came from iPhones, while 2/3 of Samsung Electronics came from mobile, albeit Samsung had to ship a lot of phones/tablets at all price points to get there. Considering the massive marketing push that Samsung paid for, I suspect that margins will be falling much quicker than Apple's iPhone margins.

 

It's very hard to compare the two companies as Samsung is much more vague on sales number.

post #80 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

2. iPhone market share is rising on many markets. Also in Germany, for example, where Android share is traditionally extremely high. It is normal that Apple had seen a market share drop, since they started with 100%. There wasn't a finger touch screen smartphone before. However, it shows already that market share erosion has stopped and they are even bouncing back on mature markets. However, they always lead by far when comparing overall market share with premium market share.
Quick Germany Report:
The Reported Percentage Debate iOS (~17%) vs. Android (~70%) came up this weekend with friends after an outing to the Cologne Christmas Market. The entire city was packed!

Eyeballing Percentage:

Smartphone: 50-50 overall; 2:1 iPhone vs. Android with business people/adults 35-50/yo; flipped 1:2 with 16-24/yo.

Not one Note seen, however many iPads in both sizes.

Phones other than smartphones were still mostly older Nokia feature phones... which to be honest... were the variety most spotted among older demographics 45-65+

Discussion turned to: who's doing the numbers; how are those numbers being reported (sales or shipping); who's profiting from those numbers. Because I/we are calling "Bogus" on the reported statistics(!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

I think that you should apply to a school if you can't read.

It is very fair to include the numbers of those s4 and s3 mini models, since Apple itself includes the numbers of iPhones that go as low as the 4. Just because the iPhone 4 (it is still being sold in China, right?) is so badly priced, it doesn't mean that those 2 Samsung models shouldn't be included.

And who the hell do you think you are to decide witch comparisons we should make? The facts are clear:

- Samsung alone sells the same number, close, if not more of high end smartphones than Apple.
- All of them have bigger screens;
- They make more money (or the same, at least for 1 or 2 more quarters) from phones than Apple, so their business is better/equal.
- All of those high end phones from other OEMs have a bigger screen.
- Bigger screens clearly outsell the iPhone.

There's a huge market for such devices and Apple has been stupid, very stupid, very incompetent when they chose to not address it.
And guess what, they are paying a huge price for it:

- 0 growth in net profit (Actually, a small decline).
- Samsung catch up in net profit.

1) IMHO = a so-called "high-end" smartphone can only carry that label if it can be updated, and IS updated, to the latest OS on either platform within 3 months of the OS update being released. (without rooting!). That means that Galaxy S2 and below get dropped from any list of "high-end".

2) IMHO = The Note series is NOT a smart phone and is in a class currently called "phablets". Apple doesn't make a "phablet" (yet?), however it does make a phone and a tablet. See my Eyeballing Percentage above: iPads spotted all over the place, no tablets of any other kind(!). These people also had phones of one kind or another (yes, we saw a couple of mixed platforms, specifically kids and Asian tourists).

The above leads me to some interesting questions concerning the Note, that I would also like to see statistics on:

1) how many computer devices does the person using a Note own (not share...own);
2) what other, if any, high tech devices have these people using the Note invested in, in the last 12, 24 and 36 months.
3) are they still using those purchases and how much.

I'm not going to speculate and/or pull numbers out of my poop-shute, however I would take that bet that says the Note series is the only modern and mobile tech device many of it's users own and use.... by a HUGE margin.

It may surprise some here that regardless of the Ultimate Fanboy I proclaim myself to be... if I was given the choice and had a very limited income to be able afford only ONE computing device... it very well would be a Note. The specs allow it to function as a stand-alone computer, no sync necessary other than with assorted cloud services.

Would I like it? Probably if it was all I could afford. Would I rather have an iPad, iPhone and MB for tasks that are better suited for each? Ab-So-Effin-Lutely!

My wish: if we're talking about "phablets", they should be in their own category and not twist the "smart phone" category. At such time that phablets are included in statistics, I think it's fair to also include iPads, even just the iPad Mini if it makes people feel better. Fact: you can do telephony on an iPad quite well; not as easy and painless as a phone, but it does work.

Summary goes like this: once you add any qualifiers to what a "smart phone" is, the demographics that use them, the OS they are on... and not to forget, the overall profitability of the platform itself (devs, content and ownership of more than one device)... then Apple is seriously "winning***".

*** I would also like to say that people the world over that don't have the disposable income of an Apple Fan, are also "winning"... if only because they are now able to participate in our digital age of communication.

I'm only saddened that there is only one device in the "middle market" worth considering... and deeper saddened that it is from a company that is corrupt to it's core and is a convicted thief.

Also, their customer service is nothing to be admired either... :
Product warranty, Samsung style
Article's embedded YouTube video:
samsung galaxy s4 catches on fire samsung wants silence
(Wondering how AI missed this tasty bit of news..?!)
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Galaxy Note 3 phablet accounts for just 1/10 of Samsung's 2013 premium phone sales
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Galaxy Note 3 phablet accounts for just 1/10 of Samsung's 2013 premium phone sales