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Apple falls to 35th spot in annual 'Best Places to Work' employee survey

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
In job listing website Glassdoor.com's annual "Best Places to Work 2014" list, reviews from Apple employees put the Cupertino company at No. 35, down one spot from last year's finish.

Glassdoor
Source: Glassdoor


After breaking into the top-ten on Glassdoor's list in 2011, employee reviews now have company in 35th place despite dropping only 0.1 points on a five-point "Satisfaction" rating scale. For this year's list, Apple received a score of 3.8 out of 5.

Glassdoor ranks the top 50 U.S. companies to work for based on responses from over 500,000 company reviews that came in over the past 12 months. Apple's score is the result of an average taken from 2,557 ratings. As for the company's leadership, CEO Tim Cook received an approval rating of 92 percent on 1,152 ratings.

The "Review Highlights" section, which generates snippets from extrapolated recurring keywords found in individual reviews, notes two "Pros" and two "Cons" of working at Apple:

Pros:
  • "The pros are that you work with great people with great hours and great benefits"
  • "You get to meet a lot of great people since you are always in the public eye"

Cons:
  • "Being relentlessly driven also means it is not easy to achieve work/life balance"
  • "Sometimes long hours because of product launches, but thats the best part of apple"

While Apple is flirting with the bottom fourth of the list, it is still the 16th-best tech company to work for in the nation. This year, technology firms accounted for 22 of the top 50, with giants Twitter and Facebook mixed in with smaller, less well-known companies like Slalom Consulting, an IT business services operation out of Seattle, Wash.

Overall, consulting firm Bain & Company took the top spot, followed by Twitter and LinkedIn, each of which received a score of 4.6. Facebook was the next tech company on the list at No. 5, while enterprise telecom services firm Interactive Intelligence came away with 6th place. Google and Qualcomm followed in 8th and 13th place, respectively.
post #2 of 33
Weird way of scoring companies. Most of the businesses on the list seem more like "corporate" jobs that score high while some of the companies rate a combined "corporate" and retail. Obviously retail will cause scores to falter as there are always unhappy retail workers. I think it would have made sense to put them in two separate categories.
post #3 of 33
So it's a yelp rating created by volunteer surveys of employees and not any kind of actual factual information in a statistically sound protocol.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #4 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



Cons:
  • "Sometimes long hours because of product launches, but thats the best part of apple"

 

Hmmmm... Some one seems very confused... lol...

post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by j4zb4 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Cons:
  • "Sometimes long hours because of product launches, but thats the best part of apple"

Hmmmm... Some one seems very confused... lol...

Apple has "problems" (too much cash, can't keep up with overwhelming demand, slavishly devoted employees and customers) that Skamstung, Google and Microsoft would kill for...
Edited by vaporland - 12/11/13 at 2:03am
post #6 of 33
Tim said at AllThingsD on 5/29/2012 (D10):
Quote:
We decided over a decade ago that there were things we could do better than anyone else; but there are others who do things as well or better. Operational expertise, and supply chain management, Apple has driven that. But manufacturing, that’s not true. In terms of how the factories are doing, this year, we put a ton of effort into taking overtime down. That’s hard because some people want to work a lot. We are already up to 95% compliance. We are measuring working hours for 700,000 people, and we’re reporting it, you can see it on our website. We are micro-managing that, doing it in a way, showing a level of care, that I don’t see in other places. I think it is really important.

So perhaps the employees of many outsourced work were also reviewing?
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post #7 of 33
Hmm, in other news, Apple broke into the top 25 "happiest companies": http://www.businessinsider.com/25-happiest-companies-in-america-2013-12?op=1
post #8 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Tim said at AllThingsD on 5/29/2012 (D10):
So perhaps the employees of many outsourced work were also reviewing?
My guess is retail pulls Apple down. And it seems like this survey would be more meaningful if it separated retail from corporate.
post #9 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So it's a yelp rating created by volunteer surveys of employees and not any kind of actual factual information in a statistically sound protocol.
Pretty much.
post #10 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by powersfoss View Post

Hmm, in other news, Apple broke into the top 25 "happiest companies": http://www.businessinsider.com/25-happiest-companies-in-america-2013-12?op=1

So now we know why Forstall was let go. 1biggrin.gif
post #11 of 33

Samsung, emboldened by the success of paying off JD Power & Associates to give Apple the highest score but themselves the award, has decided to pay off LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE OTHER RATING SYSTEM ON THE PLANET.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #12 of 33

Seems the happiest places are also the ones that throw the most gimmes and handouts to employees.

 

VACATIONS + BENEFITS. That's what Made-in-America is all about today. Never mind product quality and consumer satisfaction, make sure the employee is livin' large, yo. Small wonder then, about foreign manufacturing.

 

It would appear that "Being relentlessly driven" is what was responsible for Apple's success in the first place. Glad to see it's still alive and well in Cupertino. 

post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

My guess is retail pulls Apple down. And it seems like this survey would be more meaningful if it separated retail from corporate.

Indeed, and that's what Rokrad also wrote. There were overtime issues, bag search in their own time and so on.
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post #14 of 33
So Bain is first with 480 reviews and Apple is 35th with 2558 reviews. What kind of a stupid survey is that? They should have split it by number of reviews and not by number of employees.
post #15 of 33

How to go from 10th best place to work to 34th best place to work in 1 year, just add John Browett.

That guy really ballsed it up.

post #16 of 33

I think there is some accuracy in this.  I don't know anyone at Apple who isn't at least D-level who aren't unhappy.  In the past year, two of my friends have quit, due to the extremely long hours, extensive travel, and, while the stock has not been doing well, poor compensation.

 

Apple do need to compete for the best people, and at the moment, the only thing they compete well on is that they are a "cool" brand.  Their pay is significantly worse than companies like Google, Facebook and Netflix, and these are all companies who Apple have to compete with directly for talent.

 

Personally I'd love to work for Apple at some point, because I'd love to have some part in the products they make which I love so much, but providing for my family comes first for me, and the facts are I can earn significantly more money elsewhere, with less travel, and hence provide a much better home life.

post #17 of 33
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
…while the stock has not been doing well, poor compensation.

 

Yeah, I refuse to believe this.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Yeah, I refuse to believe this.

You can believe whatever you like.


I was genuinely stunned by how low the salaries are at Apple.  I've never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple.  For comparison, in my team at another Silicon Valley tech company (a big one), I don't have any software engineers making less than $200k.

post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

You can believe whatever you like.


I was genuinely stunned by how low the salaries are at Apple.  I've never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple.  For comparison, in my team at another Silicon Valley tech company (a big one), I don't have any software engineers making less than $200k.

Does your company rank higher than Apple?
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post


Does your company rank higher than Apple?

We're not in the ranking list Apple are (we don't qualify as a "large" company).  We also have some cultural issues as well.  I don't put us up as a model company, what I do say is that many companies (us included) pay significantly more than Apple.

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So it's a yelp rating created by volunteer surveys of employees and not any kind of actual factual information in a statistically sound protocol.

 

It's hard to sell snake-oil when statistically sound studies and factual information are required to back up the claims.

post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

You can believe whatever you like.


I was genuinely stunned by how low the salaries are at Apple.  I've never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple.  For comparison, in my team at another Silicon Valley tech company (a big one), I don't have any software engineers making less than $200k.

This. I've worked for two of the companies ranked higher than Apple, and my wife was head-hunted by Apple. The compensation offered at Apple is lower than competing firms; Apple banks (successfully) on its cachet to attract talent.

post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Samsung, emboldened by the success of paying off JD Power & Associates to give Apple the highest score but themselves the award, has decided to pay off LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE OTHER RATING SYSTEM ON THE PLANET.

Interesting. Did not know this. Do you have a link? Thanks!
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

You can believe whatever you like.


I was genuinely stunned by how low the salaries are at Apple.  I've never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple.  For comparison, in my team at another Silicon Valley tech company (a big one), I don't have any software engineers making less than $200k.
So you've "never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple" = Apple's salaries are low. Because anecdotal evidence equals fact these days. 1oyvey.gif
post #25 of 33
I work for one of the large companies on the list... and I think its too low on the list... from my own experience, to what I read about most of these other companies, I think the list is quite accurate.
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So it's a yelp rating created by volunteer surveys of employees and not any kind of actual factual information in a statistically sound protocol.

 

I'm not sure if they list their methodology.  Fortune has been publishing a list since 1998 that at least shows their criteria and methods- though I'd think any ranking along these lines is going to have a measure of subjectivity.

 

Their 2013 list is here:   http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/best-companies/2013/list/?iid=bc_sp_full

post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


So you've "never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple" = Apple's salaries are low. Because anecdotal evidence equals fact these days. 1oyvey.gif

No, anecdotal evidence does not equal fact, but the fact that neither Apple, nor any of the big tech companies, are going to boldly publish all of their salaries, anecdotal evidence is what we have.

 

I can tell you from experience that when I've been recruiting software engineers, and I've had someone from Apple apply, compensation has never been a barrier for me hiring them - I've always been offering more than Apple pay.

 

I assume you want Apple to have the best people working for them, because I assume you want Apple to keep making great products?  Well, I'm saying that in my experience, Apple are not competing for the best people at the moment.  I consider my competition when I'm looking for (experienced) talent, to be Google, Facebook and Twitter.

post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yeah, I refuse to believe this.
You can believe whatever you like.


I was genuinely stunned by how low the salaries are at Apple.  I've never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple.  For comparison, in my team at another Silicon Valley tech company (a big one), I don't have any software engineers making less than $200k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yeah, I refuse to believe this.
You can believe whatever you like.


I was genuinely stunned by how low the salaries are at Apple.  I've never heard of any software engineer making over $200k at Apple.  For comparison, in my team at another Silicon Valley tech company (a big one), I don't have any software engineers making less than $200k.

You do understand the majority is working in retail, with over 400 Stores their head count is now over 80,000. Very rough estimate tells me 50,000 employees are in the $25,000 - $35,000 range, leaving some 32,000 at corporate. Of those, I believe the number of engineers is around 18,000 making their salary quite a bit higher than the average stated in the article.

Edit: what's up with the double quoting I'm getting tonight? Side effect of the newly implemented Draft feature?
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post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



You do understand the majority is working in retail, with over 400 Stores their head count is now over 80,000. Very rough estimate tells me 50,000 employees are in the $25,000 - $35,000 range, leaving some 32,000 at corporate. Of those, I believe the number of engineers is around 18,000 making their salary quite a bit higher than the average stated in the article.

Edit: what's up with the double quoting I'm getting tonight? Side effect of the newly implemented Draft feature?

 

The article doesn't say anything about salaries.

 

I'm saying that in my experience of hiring software engineers in the Valley, Apple are not paying in line with companies they are competing with for talent.

post #30 of 33
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
…the newly implemented Draft feature?

 

Oh, so that explains why Safari crashed TWENTY-SIX TIMES during my writing of a reply somewhere else on the site.

 

And six times while writing th seven times while wr eight times while writing this reply.

 

Okay, I’m done. Fix the problem; I’m not posting again until it stops cras

 

…nine times.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So it's a yelp rating created by volunteer surveys of employees and not any kind of actual factual information in a statistically sound protocol.

I was thinking the same thing, so what we are probably seeing:

 

  1. People were encourage to go do the survey to help a company promote themselves as a good place to work so they can hire them at a lower wage
  2. The people at the top company have way too much time on their hand so they have time to spend yelping about where they work, so of course they ranked them well.
  3. Lastly, just like a yelp ranking it is subject to the person expectations and much life experience and what they consider good or bad. Not like you have not seen someone going into the upscale restaurant and complain about the portions being small and the price being high, what did they expect. 
post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

The article doesn't say anything about salaries.

Strange. I really thought I read it here earlier today when I was on my desktop. Perhaps I followed the links, but now I cannot get he same page. I did find this:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Apple-Salaries-E1138.htm

Salary for senior software engineer maxes out at $182,000 according to this Glassdoor company.
Quote:
I'm saying that in my experience of hiring software engineers in the Valley, Apple are not paying in line with companies they are competing with for talent.

Ah ok, that May, I have no idea and never heard anyone speak of salary while working at Apple, or afterwards, making the above link useless.
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post #33 of 33
Now can we have a list of top 100 things to have done with your life. I'm guessing that working for any one of those companies wouldn't appear on the list.
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