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post #81 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Yes. Similarly my sister and I are discussing a smart phone for our mother this Christmas. She just needs to be able to skype or send pictures ( not mms). She has an iPad - from me - and the obvious solution is an iPhone where all her stuff will be synced and her (iCloud) email will just work.

However the 5c is 500 plus euro off contract. and looks like a teenagers toy. So she's getting an Android or Windows phone.

 

With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense IMHO.  You’re expecting your mother to learn an entirely new (less stable and less secure) operating system…one that doesn’t play nice with much of anything else when she already understands - and is ostensibly happy with - her iPad?

 

The “transition” from an iPad to an iPhone is close to seamless.  I guess I don’t understand why you would put her through that.  Because you don’t like the looks of the iPhone 5c.  Really?

 

You do want her to be happy right?  Just sayin’.

post #82 of 97
What BS. The way things are now once you pay off your 24 month subsidy and "own" your phone you still pay the $20 per month extra, you phone is locked to the original carrier so you really do not own it. So how is ATT losing money on subsidizing when you still pay for the phone, there are obstacles to leaving the carrier and you continue to pay for it? $500 every 2 years is a hefty price especially for an object so prone to breakage and loss though as the technologic acceleration flattens out the need/desire for upgrading lessens. I'm all for owning my phone, having the ability to sign with any carrier for monthly service without a contract or onerous disconnect charges, let me know when thats possible.
post #83 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfman View Post

What BS. The way things are now once you pay off your 24 month subsidy and "own" your phone you still pay the $20 per month extra, you phone is locked to the original carrier so you really do not own it. So how is ATT losing money on subsidizing when you still pay for the phone, there are obstacles to leaving the carrier and you continue to pay for it? $500 every 2 years is a hefty price especially for an object so prone to breakage and loss though as the technologic acceleration flattens out the need/desire for upgrading lessens. I'm all for owning my phone, having the ability to sign with any carrier for monthly service without a contract or onerous disconnect charges, let me know when thats possible.

This article might interest you.


http://www.xda-developers.com/android/has-technology-become-a-disposable-commodity/
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post #84 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

If I remember correctly most carriers tend to recoup their subsidy from anywhere around month 15 to month 19 depending on the carrier, your particular plan and also any discounts you might receive. Sprint offers you a new phone 20 months into your contract so we can be sure they have recouped their cost prior to 20 months. Verizon and AT&T I believe both went to 24 months before offering an upgrade but maybe people with those 2 carriers can confirm that since I am not sure.  

I know that's what all the carriers say... but I just don't understand that.

The iPhone 5S is $650. I give the carrier $200 upfront... so the subsidy that the carrier is providing is only $450. Basically the carrier is loaning me that $450 over 24 months.

Then... I'm paying the carrier $100 a month.

Over 24 months... the carrier will have $2400 of my money. Yet they still complain about the $450 subsidy. I don't understand why.

If takes the carrier 15-19 months to recoup the $450 subsidy... how much is the service costing them? Do the carriers operate their business at the break-even point? Where is my $100 a month going?

After 24 months... and after the subsidy is paid off... the carriers are left with $1950... or $81.25 per month. Now multiply that by 75 million smartphone customers or whatever.

If the carriers can't survive on that... they need get out of the cell business.
post #85 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

So AT&T is charging 3 times as much on everything and saying that it does not satisfy.
If they remove subsidies then there monthly charge should be about $50, not triple digits higher than there is,
They could half the price and still have profits!!!

So could Apple. Don't compare rates that a piggybacking MVNO can offer with AT&T and VZW, they have very little overhead, and do nothing to build or maintain the network. Imagine a law forcing Apple to sell iPhones to another company below what it costs them and they being able to sell those iPhones to the same customers at a much cheaper rate. That's what happened in the telecom industry and how CLECs and MVNOs were born.

 

MVNO's are not being subsidized. They sub-lease the lines and still make money even at the much lower rates.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
 

With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense IMHO.  You’re expecting your mother to learn an entirely new (less stable and less secure) operating system…one that doesn’t play nice with much of anything else when she already understands - and is ostensibly happy with - her iPad?

 

The “transition” from an iPad to an iPhone is close to seamless.  I guess I don’t understand why you would put her through that.  Because you don’t like the looks of the iPhone 5c.  Really?

 

You do want her to be happy right?  Just sayin’.

 

The reality is that phones like the Nokia 520 are being offered for about $80 total. They certainly are not in the same league as the iPhone but they can call, text, allow use of several smartphone apps and can act as a very nice wi-fi hotspot for the iPad. It isn't as easy a transition but the nearly 700% savings probably will soften the blow.

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post #86 of 97

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post #87 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
 

 

The reality is that phones like the Nokia 520 are being offered for about $80 total. They certainly are not in the same league as the iPhone but they can call, text, allow use of several smartphone apps and can act as a very nice wi-fi hotspot for the iPad. It isn't as easy a transition but the nearly 700% savings probably will soften the blow.

 

True enough.  But I just can’t imagine putting dear old mom through the trials and tribulations of learning a new system, especially when she's gotten used to iOS.  I can just hear the questions and complaints now.  

 

Me?  I’d save up a little more money.  Most mothers have given their all for their kids and we’ve given them enough aggravation for one lifetime.  ;)

post #88 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

MVNO's are not being subsidized. They sub-lease the lines and still make money even at the much lower rates.

They're only able to sublease those lines because the carriers are forced to. The price they pay is well below wholesale, and yes they make money because they have very little overhead.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View PostYour existing data prices will go down $15/month. Over a two year period that will save you $360.

And you already paid $650 more up front (for the phone).
Quote:
If you are a person that buys an $850 phone every two years for about $200- you will not be making out well, you'll be paying @$290 more over a two year period
Not if you factor in the cost of the phone.
The subsidized $850 phone costs you $560. ($200 up front plus $360 ($15/month over 2 years) )
Quote:
If you buy phones outright,or don't buy a new phone every two years, that $360 is in your pocket.
Buy the phone at full cost, it works out to $490. $850 minus $360 (save $15/month over 2 years).
So buying the phone outright for $850 gives you a savings of $70 over 2 years vs, paying $200 for a subsidized phone on a 2 year contract.

Edited by Chris_CA - 12/11/13 at 5:37pm
post #90 of 97
The only country with a different carrier/mobile structure than the US that I know about is India.

There are no subsidies, and people usually buy unlocked phones not at the carrier%u2019s store, but at special stores that only sell mobiles, often of multiple brands. They also sell SIMs, or you can buy a SIM card at a corner store. This SIM can be refreshed OTA or by going to any general/grocery/specialized store. Some people opt for phones with dual-SIM, so they can have two numbers, often from two carriers, for, say, business and personal use.

Consequently, the price of a phone call on mobile is one of the, if not the, cheapest in the world. There is cut-throat competition among carriers. However, 3G is just now spreading nationwide, 4G is getting started in major metros, and there%u2019s no LTE. This is one reason why the actual smartphones have a slow uptake; with most phones you can SMS/MMS/browse Internet and make voice calls.

The other reason is price. Most phones cost $100 or less. While Samsung and Nokia make handsets at all price levels, Apple makes only one premium smart phone a year. Even its midrange phone, the 5C, is quite expensive.

To tackle the price issue, Apple has started a trade-in/installment program. The price/value of an older iPhone - although some resellers accept phones of other companies too, can be applied towards the purchase of a new one. In addition, if you make a downpayment, say $99/$199, you can pay the rest of the phone off in equal monthly installments for 12/18 months - interest free.

Apple has made this aggressive push in India only this year, and is getting great results. I%u2019m sure in the near future, Apple - as well as others, will start this trade-in/installment program in the US. All you%u2019ll have to do is go to an Apple Store, in person or on the web, where they%u2019ll run a credit check, take the downpayment, and set up a monthly installment plan for you.

The blessings of carriers will still be needed, since there is a near-duopoly in the US. It appears they%u2019ll have to, just like T-Mo has done, offer post-paid plans at a rate that doesn%u2019t include the extra price of subsidy or a contract.

But they may throw tantrums, and resort to practices like overcharging for and throttling data speeds. It would be useless to get a set capable of handling LTE speeds of 150 Mbps, when they are throttled down to 60 or 30. if this does happen, I hope that big handset makers like Apple, Samsung and MS purchase and provide their own cellular voice/data service at true cost.

I see Apple being at the forefront in this, as it provides content and services for break-even cost (iTunes) or free (iWork), and makes profits on hardware. It will be great for customers if it provides wireless service at cost, and also great for the company - for it will sell a boatload of iPhones.
post #91 of 97
How is this not illegal collusion when they are calling on all telecoms to set pricing and adjust their business models to gouge customers further?
post #92 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View PostRead the fine print. It isn't an across the board price drop. It's VERY specific to "DATA SHARE" prices only.

Actually, the $15 savings is per smartphone added to a new Mobile Share plan (vs $40 for phone subsidized).
The old plan price per phone varied by # of phones added to the plan.

The price of data on a Mobile Share plan has also dropped (as well as adding more data size plans)
So if you wanted to do the math, it looks like it could be ~$15 price drop per phone.

The prices are lower (but still could be lower).
As an example, previously 3 phones with 10GB was $225. It's now $175.

ScreenShot2013-12-11at62656PM_zps9f6d67d2.jpg
post #93 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post

How is this not illegal collusion when they are calling on all telecoms to set pricing and adjust their business models to gouge customers further?

Who's 'they'?
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #94 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I wish Apple offered their own wireless service. I'd dump AT'n'T in a California minute.

Why do you assume it'd be cheaper?

especially from the company that charges an extra $100 per GB for memory that costs them maybe $20 max?
post #95 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfman View Post

What BS. The way things are now once you pay off your 24 month subsidy and "own" your phone you still pay the $20 per month extra, you phone is locked to the original carrier so you really do not own it. So how is ATT losing money on subsidizing when you still pay for the phone, there are obstacles to leaving the carrier and you continue to pay for it? $500 every 2 years is a hefty price especially for an object so prone to breakage and loss though as the technologic acceleration flattens out the need/desire for upgrading lessens. I'm all for owning my phone, having the ability to sign with any carrier for monthly service without a contract or onerous disconnect charges, let me know when thats possible.


Good morning. If I may, I would like to offer some of my personal experiences regarding some of the issues you raise:

 

1. Carrier Locking: My personal experience is that after the 24 month commitment on AT&T, they will unlock your phone on request. Specifically for iPhones, AT&T has a form on their site to request the unlock. Go to their site and do a search for it.

 

2. Using an unlocked phone on the AT&T GSM Network: My experience is that a person can bring any unlocked GSM phone to the AT&T network, and this has been true for years. My wife purchased several unlocked phones from various Mobile Phone stores and mall kiosks and did just that. My understanding is that Verizon will not do this with a CDMA phone that was not originally purchased from Verizon, however, I do not have personal experience with this.

 

3. Using an unlocked iPhone 5S (or 5C) on AT&T: I recently purchased an unlocked iPhone 5S from the Apple online store that came with a T-Mobile SIM. I took the phone to an AT&T store and they took out the T-Mobile SIM and put in an AT&T SIM with my current number. No problem, and no charge. Also, my existing iPhone was out of contract and I unlocked it using the process I described above and we gave it as a gift to my sister-in-law.

 

Pricing: Yes, we all wish the prices were cheaper. I have been considering taking all my iPhones to T-Mobile. Their uncarrier rates are quite attractive. However, with the recent price announcements from AT&T I am reconsidering. I travel between large cities in Texas and surrounding states and I find it quite nice to not lose coverage on my AT&T phone. T-Mobile will definitely have dead spots on those roads.

 

I hope this will help you in your decision making process.

post #96 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post
 


Good morning. If I may, I would like to offer some of my personal experiences regarding some of the issues you raise:

 

1. Carrier Locking: My personal experience is that after the 24 month commitment on AT&T, they will unlock your phone on request. Specifically for iPhones, AT&T has a form on their site to request the unlock. Go to their site and do a search for it.

 

2. Using an unlocked phone on the AT&T GSM Network: My experience is that a person can bring any unlocked GSM phone to the AT&T network, and this has been true for years. My wife purchased several unlocked phones from various Mobile Phone stores and mall kiosks and did just that. My understanding is that Verizon will not do this with a CDMA phone that was not originally purchased from Verizon, however, I do not have personal experience with this.

 

3. Using an unlocked iPhone 5S (or 5C) on AT&T: I recently purchased an unlocked iPhone 5S from the Apple online store that came with a T-Mobile SIM. I took the phone to an AT&T store and they took out the T-Mobile SIM and put in an AT&T SIM with my current number. No problem, and no charge. Also, my existing iPhone was out of contract and I unlocked it using the process I described above and we gave it as a gift to my sister-in-law.

 

Pricing: Yes, we all wish the prices were cheaper. I have been considering taking all my iPhones to T-Mobile. Their uncarrier rates are quite attractive. However, with the recent price announcements from AT&T I am reconsidering. I travel between large cities in Texas and surrounding states and I find it quite nice to not lose coverage on my AT&T phone. T-Mobile will definitely have dead spots on those roads.

 

I hope this will help you in your decision making process.

 

FWIW I can confirm all three points from personal experience for both Verizon and AT&T.  However that’s not an endorsement of either carrier by any means.

 

We are very happy with T-Mobile to date.


Edited by richsadams - 12/12/13 at 8:17am
post #97 of 97

I am all for the end of subsidies not because of anything AT&T CEO says but because it's better for the consumer.

 

With no subsidized phone and being locked into a contract competition increases.  And when competition increases usually that means a lowering of rates.   

 

The system we have the hides the costs of the phone is bad for consumers.  T-Mobile is doing a great thing for all of us by exposing the truth behind phone costs (and it probably why Sprint wants to buy them - to end the threat).   It makes no sense that if I'm on a subsidized iPhone 5 that i'm paying the same monthly fee that a colleague is paying who still is in month 25 with an iPhone 4s.  It makes no sense that someone paying who gets XXXXX cheap phone where the carrier is only subsiding $150 is paying the same monthly fee as someone who purchased an iPhone where the carrier is subsidizing $450.

 

However I see this story as not that AT&T wants to end subsidizes... I think the hidden agenda is to put pressure on Apple as by being the vendor who is not interested in low cost / low margin phones they are the biggest beneficiary of the current system.  I suspect in ATTs perfect world, threatening to end subsidies gets Apple to the negotiating table to offer them cheaper rates for iPhones and then leave the current system in play.

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