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Apple TV, Roku in two-horse race for set-top streaming domination - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Here's what locks it up for me: it's under the category of "included in the box"
Roku: power adapter
AppleTV: power cord

that's it; it's the design concept...Apple just seems to get it
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30jimbo30 View Post

Here's what locks it up for me: it's under the category of "included in the box"
Roku: power adapter
AppleTV: power cord

that's it; it's the design concept...Apple just seems to get it

Maybe you can get Apple to explain it to me.

Your choice of products comes down to that?
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post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post
 

Unless Apple does something really amazing with their next gen ATV, I'll stay hooked on Roku. They seem to be getting better and better. Love the USB port, Plex, channel choices, speed, remote, etc... At-least for now the races winner is easily Roku.

 

what about AirPlay?

How do you play your purchased music, video's, and photo's?

post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickers View Post


I have the first gen Roku HDXR. I have YouTube...it's a private channel I think is no longer available, but it still works great for me.

Some of the new Roku's have a remote with a headphone jack. Have not used it, but it seems like a cool, useful feature.

 

There's also a YouTube channel available via Plex. The interface isn't nearly as good as that of the AppleTV's, but it does give you access to pretty much everything: your subscriptions and playlists, top videos, searches, etc.

post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

what about AirPlay?

How do you play your purchased music, video's, and photo's?

 

Easy. Through the Roku App. Supports all 3. Granted, it works through your WiFi, but it's always worked perfect for me, every time.

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post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


 but those consoles cost 200%-400% more than the AppleTV for most of their product cycle.
You are not comparing Apples to Apples.
What next?  Include PC's and Tablets that can also stream movies to your tv?

What does price have to do with anything? Consoles are in the category of set top boxes, i.e., you put it on a shelf and probably never move it again.

And maybe this will illustrate my point. If Apple and Roku have 80% of the narrowly defined "set-top streaming device" category but represent only 20% of actual streamed content, doesn't that paint a very different picture of the "dominance" of these devices?

This article is trying to paint Apple as one of the leaders of media streaming but really they're just another player on a crowded field.
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

What does price have to do with anything? Consoles are in the category of set top boxes, i.e., you put it on a shelf and probably never move it again.

And maybe this will illustrate my point. If Apple and Roku have 80% of the narrowly defined "set-top streaming device" category but represent only 20% of actual streamed content, doesn't that paint a very different picture of the "dominance" of these devices?

This article is trying to paint Apple as one of the leaders of media streaming but really they're just another player on a crowded field.

I agree with your second paragraph but not your first.

Is there evidence that shows that between the Apple TV, Roku, PS3/4 and Xbox 360/One that Apple's device only accounts for about 20% of the movie and TV show media extender content being streamed from a local or internet-connected server?

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post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

but those consoles cost 200%-400% more than the AppleTV for most of their product cycle.
You are not comparing Apples to Apples.

With that extra cost, one gets a considerably wider range of functionality. Also, if one has a game console, the need for a dedicated streaming device is minimized. Which makes it an interesting piece of information to compare usage and purchasing patterns, to see how the general public makes their choices of a range of options.
Quote:
What next? Include PC's and Tablets that can also stream movies to your tv?

Why not? I think it would result in more interesting figures. Slicing and dicing differentiations to narrow everything down to tiny market segments seems to be a bit much.

The last time I powered up my AppleTV was to play the recent iOS presentation, and it did well, though it didn't remember where I left off to finish later, requiring a lot of fast forward to get back to position again.

Netflix just didn't play as smoothly as it did on my PS3, and the Apple remote is the least comfortable remote I've had the displeasure of using.
post #49 of 68
Does the Atv have Amazon instant or Plex yet?

Bought a newer Roku about 8 months ago and I need another one before Christmas. Would love to pick up an Atv, but not having plex and Amazon is a deal breaker.
post #50 of 68
Thinks that AppleTV stinks at (as an AppleTV owner) that need to be addressed to put it on par with (or better than) Roku:

1. Channel building. There's no SDK, and most available channels are uncompelling. One can't even turn a video podcast or favorite YouTube channel into an AppleTV channel. There needs to be a way to create channels and add them just as Roku does. this should include a relatively easy way to build personal or group channels.

2. Accessing local file shares for content. The closest you get are Apple's iCloud and iTunes-based services. Well, iCloud, with 5Gb of storage doesn't hold an awful lot and, for many, is a performance dog. iTunes works, but it doesn't leverage NAS storage and has the odd-ball home sharing setup that phones home to set up permissions (and it becomes super inconvenient when you have multiple computers or accounts involved). Also iTunes requires you to have your computer and iTunes fired up at the time - kind of inconvenient.

3. Merging account content. AppleTV supports having the device sign in with multiple accounts, but you need to switch between them manually in Settings? There's no rational reason to do this. All the accounts' contents are accessible, but you can't look through it all at once, you have to plough throw multiple menus to get at it, and it's pretty well hidden.

4. Podcasts. Already a medium in their own right, with no small bit of help from Apple, but the Podcast doesn't let you add URLs of your favorites, and by default seems to only show shared podcasts from a system with iTunes on, home-sharing enabled, and podcasts pre-subscribed. You can see popular podcasts from the iTunes Store, but that's it. And, if you have a podcast that you watch frequently, there's absolutely no way to promote it to a channel (like saving URLs to the springboard in iOS).

5. Some of the support for things like Flickr is half implemented. Try and select one of your own private Flickr photo sets as a screensaver, for instance.

6. A crappy IR remote. The beam has poor spread, and it uses a protocol that universal remotes can't support. Better would be a remote that could be emulated by standard universal remotes, or at least, a remote that didn't require you to point directly at the unit like you were engaging in target practice.

All of this is pretty basic and obvious stuff. Sure, maybe you can make the case for other types of apps on there, like games or whatnot, but that's not as important.
post #51 of 68
For people complaining the Apple Tv needs the App store: Its called AIR PLAY MIRRORING- Mirror your iPhone/ipod/ipad/Mac to the Apple Tv, and there it is...THE APP STORE ON YOUR TV.....Why would they put the app store on the apple tv when it has this function? apparently this is how they want you to use the apple tv.
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancxg View Post

Does the Atv have Amazon instant or Plex yet?

Bought a newer Roku about 8 months ago and I need another one before Christmas. Would love to pick up an Atv, but not having plex and Amazon is a deal breaker.

Does the roku have iTunes store or the ability to do what TV does with my photos yet? -not to mention airplay.

I had a roku a while back and returned it because of the clunky interface, its inability to do the above mentioned and the craptastic  other apps that were included. Talk about a deal breaker. TV is the best unit.

see how that works...

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post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by diorio333 View Post

For people complaining the Apple Tv needs the App store: Its called AIR PLAY MIRRORING- Mirror your iPhone/ipod/ipad/Mac to the Apple Tv, and there it is...THE APP STORE ON YOUR TV.....Why would they put the app store on the apple tv when it has this function? apparently this is how they want you to use the apple tv.

I assume you did not bother reading all of the comments, as previously stated certain TV based apps block airplay.

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post #54 of 68
Are the ChromeCast and other streaming devices on an HDMI stick considered to be part of this market? The article doesn't mention them.
post #55 of 68

Each box has it's own strengths, but Apple could dominate this segment if they just had the willpower.  They are on the cusp of "insane greatness" with the ATV, but as the many comments bear out, there are tiny missing features (particularly opening it up to 3rd parties like with iDevices) that hobble the ATV just enough to leave the market wide open for competitors such as Roku.  If Apple doesn't quickly wake up and take the ATV seriously (drop this "hobby" mentality) I'm afraid they'll be "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

post #56 of 68
Originally Posted by saarek View Post
I assume you did not bother reading all of the comments, as previously stated certain TV based apps block airplay.

 

All Apple has to do is stop that from happening. Boom, done.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post
 

I assume you did not bother reading all of the comments, as previously stated certain TV based apps block airplay.

So what can Apple do about that? If the developers want to block their own app from airplay they have that right. It's not like Apple can force all apps to support airplay. That would make even less sense.

post #58 of 68
Originally Posted by wigby View Post
It's not like Apple can force all apps to support airplay.

 

Of course they can.

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post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Of course they can.

You missed my point. All apps already support airplay mirroring via iOS. My question is why would Apple force it for apps that don't need or want airplay.

post #60 of 68
Originally Posted by wigby View Post
All apps already support airplay mirroring via iOS.

 

Can, not do.

 
My question is why would Apple force it for apps that don't need or want airplay.

 

For those apps, you just wouldn’t use it. Or you would if you had a need for a larger interface. The point would be to make AirPlay a foundation-level API, requisite of the creation of the app itself, unable to be turned off by the developer.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by diorio333 View Post

Why would they put the app store on the apple tv when it has this function? apparently this is how they want you to use the apple tv.
Because it's a compromise solution that is prone to lag and interference, is inefficient, and therefore isn't as good quality as a native solution would be on the Apple TV.

For a while web apps were the way Apple wanted you to use third party software on your iPhone. Things change.

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post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FellowConspirator View Post

Thinks that AppleTV stinks at (as an AppleTV owner) that need to be addressed to put it on par with (or better than) Roku:

1. Channel building. There's no SDK, and most available channels are uncompelling. One can't even turn a video podcast or favorite YouTube channel into an AppleTV channel. There needs to be a way to create channels and add them just as Roku does. this should include a relatively easy way to build personal or group channels.

2. Accessing local file shares for content. The closest you get are Apple's iCloud and iTunes-based services. Well, iCloud, with 5Gb of storage doesn't hold an awful lot and, for many, is a performance dog. iTunes works, but it doesn't leverage NAS storage and has the odd-ball home sharing setup that phones home to set up permissions (and it becomes super inconvenient when you have multiple computers or accounts involved). Also iTunes requires you to have your computer and iTunes fired up at the time - kind of inconvenient.

3. Merging account content. AppleTV supports having the device sign in with multiple accounts, but you need to switch between them manually in Settings? There's no rational reason to do this. All the accounts' contents are accessible, but you can't look through it all at once, you have to plough throw multiple menus to get at it, and it's pretty well hidden.

4. Podcasts. Already a medium in their own right, with no small bit of help from Apple, but the Podcast doesn't let you add URLs of your favorites, and by default seems to only show shared podcasts from a system with iTunes on, home-sharing enabled, and podcasts pre-subscribed. You can see popular podcasts from the iTunes Store, but that's it. And, if you have a podcast that you watch frequently, there's absolutely no way to promote it to a channel (like saving URLs to the springboard in iOS).

5. Some of the support for things like Flickr is half implemented. Try and select one of your own private Flickr photo sets as a screensaver, for instance.

6. A crappy IR remote. The beam has poor spread, and it uses a protocol that universal remotes can't support. Better would be a remote that could be emulated by standard universal remotes, or at least, a remote that didn't require you to point directly at the unit like you were engaging in target practice.

All of this is pretty basic and obvious stuff. Sure, maybe you can make the case for other types of apps on there, like games or whatnot, but that's not as important.

1) Why ignore all the things the Ruko can't do that the Apple TV can do?

2) The Apple TV supports any remote, not just universal remotes. You simply tell it what buttons on the remote you want to use and press them. It couldn't be any easier.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

2) The Apple TV supports any remote, not just universal remotes. You simply tell it what buttons on the remote you want to use and press them. It couldn't be any easier.

I could have sworn it wasn't there when I bought it, but it does look like it was there since late 2010.
Edited by JeffDM - 12/23/13 at 6:09am
post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I could have sworn it wasn't there when I bought it, but it does look like it was there since late 2010.

I only noticed it earlier this year. 2010 surprises me.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I only noticed it earlier this year. 2010 surprises me.

I found a few articles stamped November 2010.

This article claims November 2008:
http://www.maclife.com/article/howtos/take_control_your_apple_tv_your_universal_remote
post #66 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

 

2) The Apple TV supports any remote, not just universal remotes. You simply tell it what buttons on the remote you want to use and press them. It couldn't be any easier.
 

 

Yep, and so noted above: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/161213/apple-tv-roku-in-two-horse-race-for-set-top-streaming-domination#post_2447135

post #67 of 68
Quote:

Just say, “I’m never going to buy an Apple TV because I want to use a hideous and unintuitive interface and manually manage every single piece of my content with separate metadata and subtitle files.”

You've clearly never used a jailbroken ATV2 have you?

 

As an owner of one I can confirm that my meta data and subtitles to my infinite collection of free movies and tv shows, often in HD and some in 3D, are all updated manually through a highly logical and customisable interface.

 

However there are people that would prefer to wait an extra 6 months and pay over the odds for their content, just because it comes in a familiar layout.  

post #68 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCGOO View Post
 

 

 

 

Exactly.  TiVo provides all of the Internet content, plus allowing you to record 4 (6 if cable) broadcast shows simultaneously.  Then stream that recorded content to your iPad/iPhone whenever you want. Now with out of home streaming, you can watch your stuff anywhere.  Exclusively on Apple iDevices.  Apple should buy TiVo, incorporate their tech into ATV, and the battle would be over.  

 

With a current market cap of about $1.5 billion, Cook could write that check ($2 billion would probably take TiVo) and replenish the funds in no time. The key would be (properly and effectively) integrating the TiVo technology into the Apple ecosystem. But I'm not sure that Cook would have a plan for doing that, any more than he has (so far) shown for developing the AppleTV into something more than a hobby. I'm not an early adopter. And if a device doesn't do something I actually want or need, I don't buy it (just to have it). And unfortunately, right now, the AppleTV adds no value to my (infrequent) TV watching.

 

With a market cap of almost $59 billion, Time Warner, Inc. would be a big pill to swallow. But I'd love to see Apple be able to offer HBO/Cinemax (and other cable networks) on an a la carte basis. Without a way to break the mafia that controls distribution, I don't see how Apple is going to be able to offer a truly unique viewing experience. I'll keep hoping though...

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