or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday starting at $2,999
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday starting at $2,999 - Page 5

post #161 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

0_o


Let me guess, you are new to the internet....


Next time I'll be sure to write my text in between tags so your feeble mind can know the difference between statements of fact and when someone is making fun of you.

My arguments were perfectly sound, you just don't seem smart or open enough to understand them.

To SolipsismX


To clarify a few things, although I'm sure you'll completely miss the point yet again, I wasn't calling you girls for liking the Mac Pro. I've said on numerous occasions that this new machine is generally awesome. I was calling you girls because you got all emotional on me for making a perfectly valid point against the machine's lack of internal storage capacity options which are:
a) Not nearly enough storage
b) Not nearly enough storage for 300$ more
and
c) Still not enough storage for your first born child. (800$ more)

As for "salient" arguments, and nice use of your thesaurus by the way, I mentioned on multiple occasions that the sedentary nature of the Mac Pro is no excuse for "small and light" being more important than storage capacity, which is a real world usability issue for the kind of people who need the graphics power built into the device.

I am a huge proponent of Apple products, which are generally far superior to the competition's, but you type of "Apple can do no harm" people make  us all look bad. How about you stop posting for a while, or do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?


It's OK to be objective every now and then.

Wow, what a total load of drivel you have posted in this thread.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #162 of 296
Apple .. please post the amount I have to make a check out for to get an 8 core Mac Pro! Why the secrecy?
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #163 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


5) Are you really saying "serious professionals" never had to "buy more stuff" with the old style Mac Pro? You're the one that showed an image that had a Forte A/V interface!

 

Ha! Alienzed should see the cables and peripherals hanging off our current (2010 and earlier) Mac Pros. And tell my boss that he "doesn't need to buy more stuff". Too funny.

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #164 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I think that the Apple Mac Pro is going where the Pro A/V market will be in 5 years. With Thunderbolt your external devices can be in another room -- separate from where you are processing audio. 

 

We've had our shared raid/NAS in it's own room for a few years now, we can do recording in any of our suites without any noisy external boxes, if we need to.

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #165 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
 

Wanting more than 1TB from a pro machine who's last iteration (release 2 years ago!!!) used to be able to house over 10TB isn't that unreasonable. And we all know that thunderbolt enclosures are still real pricey, nor are they warranted given that even SSD read/write at like 500mb/s, muchless HDD read/write speeds that don't even really need Firewire 400.

 

The Mac Pro looks great, but it's target market seems extremely small to me, because it is simply crippled in so many ways... and I was finally ready to move up from the iMac....

No hard feelings, anyone!

 

 

No hard feelings taken. It just seems the re-imagined Mac Pro is either not what you personally want/need, or that your idea of what it should be isn't aligned with what the Mac Pro actually has become.

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #166 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post
 

 

No hard feelings taken. It just seems the re-imagined Mac Pro is either not what you personally want/need, or that your idea of what it should be isn't aligned with what the Mac Pro actually has become.

Indeed.

post #167 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Apple .. please post the amount I have to make a check out for to get an 8 core Mac Pro! Why the secrecy?

 

 

They really could have put this info up already with a note saying available Dec whatever.  It is crazy.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #168 of 296

I haven't posted to AppleInsider for some time. I believe I started reading AppleInsider back in 1998 when it started and actually registered in 2002.

 

I used to goto AppleInsider regularly for decent info and great in depth discussions about the Apple Mac products. Of late I've not participated much at all, but regularly pop in to see what's being discussed.

 

Today as I'm in the market for buying the late 2013 Mac Pro which is a real departure from the pre-2013 Mac Pros I decided to use AppleInsider for some good info and discussions on this new Mac pro.

 

From all that I've read so far I'm targeting the 6-core Mac Pro, and likely will upgrade the PCIe-based Flash storage to 1TB as I'm not at all sure it can be upgraded using a 3rd party. I suspect OWC will have something but don't want to wait for it to surface. RAM for this new Mac Pro certainly seems to be available from OWC and surprisingly enough from what I've seen so far the speculative price difference between what Apple will charge for 32 and 64 GB is close to buying the same from OWC at this time. However, real prices will be revealed tomorrow.

 

I have no idea at this time if the 2nd GPU will get heavy use with my workload, but I'm understanding Apple is modifying some of its applications such as FCP and Compressor to make efficient use of 2 GPUs. I would expect (but have no real insights on this) Adobe will do the same for some of its applications as well.

 

Some people have a real issue with having to add/use external storage to this new Mac Pro. For me, I have no issues at all. I have already purchased the LaCie 2big 6TB RAID-0 Thunderbolt device that has removable 3.5" disks as a refurbished unit for $369 the other day from MacMall. I've registered it with LaCie and it has been assigned a 3 year warranty from it original data of purchase that was March 2013. I also happen to have a LaCie 2TB RAID-0 Little Big Disk Thunderbolt. Both of these currently are being used along with my 17" MacBookPro8,3 (late 2011). They are solid performers. The LaCie 2big is amazingly quiet and to hear any noise at all I have to place my ear to within 3" of its casing. The Little Big Disk is much noisier and I can hear its noise from 2' away.

 

My intent is to move the 2big over to be used with the new Mac Pro, and for the time being will operate the new Mac Pro via Screen Sharing on my MacBookPro. To startup the new Mac Pro I will need to connect it to my TV via HDMI to get things setup and for configuring it to allow the Screen Sharing.

 

I'm a computer enthusiast and have liked the Apple Mac product line from the early days going back to the Mac 512K (FYI... around $2600 at the time). I'm retired from managing HPC at a major Corp now but do provide IT support for my son's editing/video business which employs 4 Mac Pros (pre 2013 models) and 2 iMacs Ultimates (maxed out iMacs bought late 2012 and early 2013). His machines use the SmallTree 10TB Raid-5 GraniteSTOR TitaniumZ-5 for shared storage over direct connect 1GbE CAT6 links, with one using 10GbE over CAT7 as it's a power client Mac Pro doing the 'heavy lifting'. He's not in any real hurry to upgrade his Mac Pros to the new Mac pro at this time and he considers it a luxury item if he were to do so from a capital expenditure standpoint. His current project/contract workload is handled quite well with his current family of Macs... but will surely be maxed out as his workloads do/will increase and as project deadlines can be very stressful. Eventually he will upgrade his Macs over the next few years. Given his current studio configuration upgrading to the new Mac Pro will be close to effortless as he has everything in place to make good use of it. My son gives high marks to Apple for making the new Mac Pro smaller, lighter and more easily moved about within office workplaces and for traveling to client locations. He quite happy to get away from having to mess with the Mac Pro internals for adding disks, SSDs, PCIe cards etc and likes the idea of having a single multi TB Thunderbolt enclosure sitting alongside the new Mac Pro such as the LaCie 2big device which as I've already mentioned is very very quiet. He's likely to hang onto one or more of his Mac Pros for their connectivity to his large screen TVs.

 

We plan on using the 6-core I will buy to compare with his current Mac Pro and iMac lineup to get an understanding of how well the new Mac Pro performs for his workload. It may well be that I loan/rent my new Mac pro to my son at times and eventually sell it to him if he sees it has benefit for his business.

 

So the above is my position concerning the new Mac Pro and I find that I do not have the misgivings about its design, architecture and pricing that some people have. Sure it would be nice if the price was lower, but I don't see it to be out of line or outrages with what Apple has charged before and is comparable to the other computer workstation vendors.

 

Just for the record, my 17" MBP8,3 is a 2.5 GHz i7 4-core, with 16GB RAM, OWC Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G SSD 480GB and a Seagate Momentus 6G 1TB in its Optical bay location using OWC's Data Doubler product (Negotiated Link Speed is 6G in the Optical bay as well). I split the SSD into two equal pieces and run 10.9.1 as production and another test version of Mavericks in the other. The Seagate is split into two Volumes, with one holding a clone of the 10.9.1 and the other used for fast scratch space as needed. The MBP is wired to a Apple 1TB Time Capsule which has several USB drives hanging off it for archiving data. Time Machine backups are made to a locally connected 2TB FW800 enclosure as well as the Time Capsule for extra backup safeguard. I keep my big 'stuff' (1.4TB worth) such as iTunes, iPhoto, Movies, Documents, Games, Home Design Studio software on the LaCie 2TB RAID-0 Little Big Disk Thunderbolt. This allows me to keep the 10.9.1 SSD boot Volume down to around 120GB which leaves about 100GB of free space for scratch purposes. So I should think the 1TB PCIe-based Flash storage in the new Mac Pro will be more than sufficient for my needs.

 

Mavericks does a fine job managing memory these days and I rarely see any 'memory pressure' as displayed by the Activity Monitor.


Edited by bxs6408 - 12/18/13 at 9:42pm
Regards
Reply
Regards
Reply
post #169 of 296
What a joke. Way too late and way too expensive! ! Here in Australia, starting price is $4k.
Would not mind it so much if you could downgrade it. I don't need 2 video cards, just one. Leave the second card out, give me some options Apple, if the gap between Mac Mini and Mac Pro wasn't enormous, I'd be more inclined to upgrade.


Really, who the heck can afford $4k for a CPU, RAM and a flash drive? Come on guys, PC's are whizzing ahead in performance and coming down in price...
post #170 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle View Post

What a joke. Way too late and way too expensive! ! Here in Australia, starting price is $4k.
Would not mind it so much if you could downgrade it. I don't need 2 video cards, just one. Leave the second card out, give me some options Apple, if the gap between Mac Mini and Mac Pro wasn't enormous, I'd be more inclined to upgrade.


Really, who the heck can afford $4k for a CPU, RAM and a flash drive? Come on guys, PC's are whizzing ahead in performance and coming down in price...

 

 
There are people here that are ready to buy as soon as it goes live.
I certainly am in the market but will wait to see how my main apps work with it.
 
Guess it's not for you.  Doesn't mean it is bad machine.
 
I hate iOS7.  Lots of people love it.  That's life.  Apple is going to go where the money is.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #171 of 296
"There are people here that are ready to buy as soon as it goes live.
I certainly am in the market but will wait to see how my main apps work with it."
 
>  Yup, people stand in a cue and give money to Apple, shish!
 
Guess it's not for you.  Doesn't mean it is bad machine.
 
> I wish it WAS for me, I'm not saying it's bad machine, I'm saying it's badly priced!
 
I hate iOS7.  Lots of people love it.  That's life.  Apple is going to go where the money is.
 
> The mobile devices, I can understand that's where the money is, not sure about the expensive box solutions though
post #172 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle View Post

What a joke. Way too late and way too expensive! ! Here in Australia, starting price is $4k.
Would not mind it so much if you could downgrade it. I don't need 2 video cards, just one. Leave the second card out, give me some options Apple, if the gap between Mac Mini and Mac Pro wasn't enormous, I'd be more inclined to upgrade.


Really, who the heck can afford $4k for a CPU, RAM and a flash drive? Come on guys, PC's are whizzing ahead in performance and coming down in price...

I think I have a solution to your problem. If you don't need its capabilities, and you can't afford one, perhaps you should buy something else.
post #173 of 296

Well, I got an alert message from http://www.istheapplestoredown.com ...The Apple Online Store went down at 2305 hrs PST. Apple presumably was serious about updating things that hopefully include the new Mac Pro. I suspect it will be online again in a few hours.... so back to my movie watching. :D


Edited by bxs6408 - 12/18/13 at 11:18pm
Regards
Reply
Regards
Reply
post #174 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle View Post

Would not mind it so much if you could downgrade it. I don't need 2 video cards, just one.

Really, who the heck can afford $4k for a CPU, RAM and a flash drive? Come on guys, PC's are whizzing ahead in performance and coming down in price...

It is not meant for "hardware enthusiasts" who just wanna brag. It is meant for serious multi-core compute-heavy work. If your needs are met by lesser hardware, then buy lesser hardware. Apple happens to sell a number of fine machines that'll meet your needs, like the iMac.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #175 of 296

I develop databases, I need fast drive access, CPU both as a workstation and a database server...and that's why I don't need the extra video card. It's not about bragging, it's about having a machine that's capable and fast. Mac Mini is good enough for now, but I would have upgraded if the price was right...

post #176 of 296

Store is down...

 

Hope Santa comes in with good pricing.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #177 of 296

It's live.

 

Go get them!

 

 

Maxed out machine comes in at $9599.

 

 

6 core add 500

8 core add 2000

 

Drat.  6 is my budget methinks

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #178 of 296

My 6-core plus extra software and AppleCare came in at $5673.97 + $539.03 tax (EPP program was used) and will be available for pickup at my local Apple Store Feb 6, 2014.

 

I will need to talk with local Apple Store to find out whether the software costs for FCPX, LPX and Aperture are zero per the online store stating "This version is a free update for current users of Final Cut Pro X." for example.

 

Details

  • Available to ship: January
    Available for pickup: Ships to Apple Store, *********************

Hardware

  • 3.5GHz 6-core with 12MB of L3 cache
  • 32GB (4x8GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC
  • 512GB PCIe-based flash storage
  • Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
  • User's Guide (English)
  • Accessory Kit

 

Software

  • Pages, Numbers, Keynote
  • iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand
  • OS X
  • Final Cut Pro X
  • Logic Pro X
  • Aperture

Services and Support


Edited by bxs6408 - 12/19/13 at 1:12am
Regards
Reply
Regards
Reply
post #179 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Of course some people are going to do stuff like that, but Macbook Pros are there for portability. Sticking it all in a briefcase as big as the old Mac Pro might be necessary for some people, but it goes against the idea of having a "mobile" device.


Again, the Mac Pro is not a mobile device, it sits on a desk and never moves. It's small size is good for nothing other than wow-factor and Apple's shipping costs (oh and the environment!) My guess is that lots of people would have been much happier with half-decent internal storage.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #180 of 296

Human Nature Can Never Be Satisfied In Life.

post #181 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxs6408 View Post

I haven't posted to AppleInsider for some time. I believe I started reading AppleInsider back in 1998 when it started and actually registered in 2002.

I used to goto AppleInsider regularly for decent info and great in depth discussions about the Apple Mac products. Of late I've not participated much at all, but regularly pop in to see what's being discussed.

Today as I'm in the market for buying the late 2013 Mac Pro which is a real departure from the pre-2013 Mac Pros I decided to use AppleInsider for some good info and discussions on this new Mac pro.

From all that I've read so far I'm targeting the 6-core Mac Pro, and likely will upgrade the PCIe-based Flash storage to 1TB as I'm not at all sure it can be upgraded using a 3rd party. I suspect OWC will have something but don't want to wait for it to surface. RAM for this new Mac Pro certainly seems to be available from OWC and surprisingly enough from what I've seen so far the speculative price difference between what Apple will charge for 32 and 64 GB is close to buying the same from OWC at this time. However, real prices will be revealed tomorrow.

I have no idea at this time if the 2nd GPU will get heavy use with my workload, but I'm understanding Apple is modifying some of its applications such as FCP and Compressor to make efficient use of 2 GPUs. I would expect (but have no real insights on this) Adobe will do the same for some of its applications as well.

Some people have a real issue with having to add/use external storage to this new Mac Pro. For me, I have no issues at all. I have already purchased the LaCie 2big 6TB RAID-0 Thunderbolt device that has removable 3.5" disks as a refurbished unit for $369 the other day from MacMall. I've registered it with LaCie and it has been assigned a 3 year warranty from it original data of purchase that was March 2013. I also happen to have a LaCie 2TB RAID-0 Little Big Disk Thunderbolt. Both of these currently are being used along with my 17" MacBookPro8,3 (late 2011). They are solid performers. The LaCie 2big is amazingly quiet and to hear any noise at all I have to place my ear to within 3" of its casing. The Little Big Disk is much noisier and I can hear its noise from 2' away.

My intent is to move the 2big over to be used with the new Mac Pro, and for the time being will operate the new Mac Pro via Screen Sharing on my MacBookPro. To startup the new Mac Pro I will need to connect it to my TV via HDMI to get things setup and for configuring it to allow the Screen Sharing.

I'm a computer enthusiast and have liked the Apple Mac product line from the early days going back to the Mac 512K (FYI... around $2600 at the time). I'm retired from managing HPC at a major Corp now but do provide IT support for my son's editing/video business which employs 4 Mac Pros (pre 2013 models) and 2 iMacs Ultimates (maxed out iMacs bought late 2012 and early 2013). His machines use the SmallTree 10TB Raid-5 GraniteSTOR TitaniumZ-5 for shared storage over direct connect 1GbE CAT6 links, with one using 10GbE over CAT7 as it's a power client Mac Pro doing the 'heavy lifting'. He's not in any real hurry to upgrade his Mac Pros to the new Mac pro at this time and he considers it a luxury item if he were to do so from a capital expenditure standpoint. His current project/contract workload is handled quite well with his current family of Macs... but will surely be maxed out as his workloads do/will increase and as project deadlines can be very stressful. Eventually he will upgrade his Macs over the next few years. Given his current studio configuration upgrading to the new Mac Pro will be close to effortless as he has everything in place to make good use of it. My son gives high marks to Apple for making the new Mac Pro smaller, lighter and more easily moved about within office workplaces and for traveling to client locations. He quite happy to get away from having to mess with the Mac Pro internals for adding disks, SSDs, PCIe cards etc and likes the idea of having a single multi TB Thunderbolt enclosure sitting alongside the new Mac Pro such as the LaCie 2big device which as I've already mentioned is very very quiet. He's likely to hang onto one or more of his Mac Pros for their connectivity to his large screen TVs.

We plan on using the 6-core I will buy to compare with his current Mac Pro and iMac lineup to get an understanding of how well the new Mac Pro performs for his workload. It may well be that I loan/rent my new Mac pro to my son at times and eventually sell it to him if he sees it has benefit for his business.

So the above is my position concerning the new Mac Pro and I find that I do not have the misgivings about its design, architecture and pricing that some people have. Sure it would be nice if the price was lower, but I don't see it to be out of line or outrages with what Apple has charged before and is comparable to the other computer workstation vendors.

Just for the record, my 17" MBP8,3 is a 2.5 GHz i7 4-core, with 16GB RAM, OWC Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G SSD 480GB and a Seagate Momentus 6G 1TB in its Optical bay location using OWC's Data Doubler product (Negotiated Link Speed is 6G in the Optical bay as well). I split the SSD into two equal pieces and run 10.9.1 as production and another test version of Mavericks in the other. The Seagate is split into two Volumes, with one holding a clone of the 10.9.1 and the other used for fast scratch space as needed. The MBP is wired to a Apple 1TB Time Capsule which has several USB drives hanging off it for archiving data. Time Machine backups are made to a locally connected 2TB FW800 enclosure as well as the Time Capsule for extra backup safeguard. I keep my big 'stuff' (1.4TB worth) such as iTunes, iPhoto, Movies, Documents, Games, Home Design Studio software on the LaCie 2TB RAID-0 Little Big Disk Thunderbolt. This allows me to keep the 10.9.1 SSD boot Volume down to around 120GB which leaves about 100GB of free space for scratch purposes. So I should think the 1TB PCIe-based Flash storage in the new Mac Pro will be more than sufficient for my needs.

Mavericks does a fine job managing memory these days and I rarely see any 'memory pressure' as displayed by the Activity Monitor.

^^^This





Just to put $ vs features into perspective


Release date September 10, 1984
Introductory price US$ 2795
Discontinued April 14, 1986
Operating system 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.2,[1] 3.3, 3.4, 4.0, 4.1
CPU Motorola 68000 @ 7.8338 MHz (Effectively 6MHz)
Memory 512 kB (built-in)

...No SSD or HDD internal storage

CPI Inflation Calculator
$ 2795 in 1984

Has the same buying power as:
$6,269.76 in 2013


You can get a 3 GHz 8-core 32 GB RAM 512 GB SSD Dual GPU nMP for $6199 -- less $ than that 1984 Mac
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 12/19/13 at 3:38am
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #182 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

It is Christmas time you could give her a new Mac Pro instead!1cool.gif
It might take more than a year to get a substantial upgrade over the current Xeons. I haven't hear mention of any thing major coming and frankly Intel is under the same pressure to reduce thermal power in these chips as they are in their consumer lines.

As for GPU's well I believe you are right in that 2014 should bring a new family of chips. Even then the question really is how much of an improvement is possible.
Well a bit more performance anyways. Right now I don't see a path in that direction unless Apple and Intel are working on a solution using Intels many core technology.
At this point you do have to have the personality of an adventure seeker. Not that I believe there is any problem with the tech going into the new Mac Pro but rather when basically the entire platform is new technology you can have issues.

I expect to see, overall, a possible 20% increase in effective computing power with next year's models. While it's true that Xeon's tend to be a year or so behind their more consumer oriented "I" lines, it's also much more performance oriented. I keep thinking that 2013 was a rather fallow year in performance for Intel's chips. This coming year should be more performance oriented.

With OpenCL depending on what's in the GPU, I expect to see a good boost there next year.
post #183 of 296
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post
Cant wait for an unboxing video

 

I miss those.

 

Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Really? Did AI fire all its editors?

 

A few years ago.

 

Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
Im not complaining, but

 

…you are.

 
this really marks the end of the expandable Mac.

 

Never mind the thousands of expansion options available.

 

Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

YAWN 

 

That’s what I had to say about your signature.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #184 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

I hope the Mac Pro has that too!

Are you worried about squirrels? I don't think they'll fit.
post #185 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

0_o


Let me guess, you are new to the internet....


Next time I'll be sure to write my text in between tags so your feeble mind can know the difference between statements of fact and when someone is making fun of you.

My arguments were perfectly sound, you just don't seem smart or open enough to understand them.

To SolipsismX


To clarify a few things, although I'm sure you'll completely miss the point yet again, I wasn't calling you girls for liking the Mac Pro. I've said on numerous occasions that this new machine is generally awesome. I was calling you girls because you got all emotional on me for making a perfectly valid point against the machine's lack of internal storage capacity options which are:
a) Not nearly enough storage
b) Not nearly enough storage for 300$ more
and
c) Still not enough storage for your first born child. (800$ more)

As for "salient" arguments, and nice use of your thesaurus by the way, I mentioned on multiple occasions that the sedentary nature of the Mac Pro is no excuse for "small and light" being more important than storage capacity, which is a real world usability issue for the kind of people who need the graphics power built into the device.

I am a huge proponent of Apple products, which are generally far superior to the competition's, but you type of "Apple can do no harm" people make  us all look bad. How about you stop posting for a while, or do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?


It's OK to be objective every now and then.

It's a perfectly valid point that the new Mac Pro has much less internal storage than the old Mac Pro. But that's it!

Your posts are downhill after that.

If you said, that for YOU, this doesn't have enough internal storage, everyone would have said that this isn't for you then, and if you were willing to let it go at that, or just agree, none of this would be happening. But when you make a statement that patently false, which is to generalize your wants/needs to everyone else, then you set yourself up for all of this criticism.

The problem seems to be that you aren't really familiar with the way much production use of machines like this are most of the time. Internal mass storage is not done in most places these days. That's pure and simple.

When I first saw this at the dev conf. In June, I was both upset and frustrated. I'm retired (no I'm not that old). So my needs are not what they were when I had my company. But still, I want performance. I also have five drives inside my Mac Pro, and five drives in a tower outside for backup. So this threw me!

But as I thought about it for MY needs, I realized that it was fine. With a pro quality 6 drive raid running raid 10 or preferably 20, I can have all my stuff there instead of all those drives inside and out.

With the dual pro graphics cards Apple is selling so cheaply as part of this, it isn't so bad. The only thing that's an annoyance is no internal card accommodation. A couple of extra USB3 sockets would be nice, but not a major problem.

Overall, for most REAL pro usage, it's just dandy. Don't let your own likes and dislikes get in the way of the general usage model.

But insulting people will never get your point across. Don't do it again!
post #186 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle View Post

I develop databases, I need fast drive access, CPU both as a workstation and a database server...and that's why I don't need the extra video card. It's not about bragging, it's about having a machine that's capable and fast. Mac Mini is good enough for now, but I would have upgraded if the price was right...

Apparently, the second video card is mostly for OpenCL usage, which could help database operations. This needs further investigating after these things are in the wild.

And there's nothing faster than a Thunderbolt 2 SSD raid.
post #187 of 296

It's pretty crazy how people are up in arms with not being able to install things inside a workstation. They have yet to embrace THE POINT and the new paradigm.

 

If you are an ACTUAL PRO -- that being someone who couldn't do all this with an iMac which is nearly as fast as that large aluminum workstation (for most things), then you would be using ThunderBolt.

 

The dual memory Flash memory is > than anything you can set up for drive access, and then you have Thunderbolt peripherals which 4K streams are not going to saturate yet. Anything else, use USB 3 or FireWire 800.

 

But with all the power of the main computer -- you WANT IT SMALL and not burdened with more heat. You do not need to add anything else to it once it is configured. All video and storage gear is plugged in via Thunderbolt, or in the case of it being non 4K in speed, using the prior standards.

 

Adding the hard drive into the computer doesn't get you anything with this setup -- so to indulge something with up to 72 teraflops of graphics power and a few terraflops (forget the exact number) of CPU -- well, treat it like the super computer it is.

 

I'm thinking the compromises here with the new form factor, were based on not competing with systems that were indistinguishable from standard desktop computers and creating the fastest thing they could possibly create.

 

It's like people want to put a uhaul on the back of a Formula 1 racer -- you'd save money getting a pickup truck.

post #188 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Apparently, the second video card is mostly for OpenCL usage, which could help database operations. This needs further investigating after these things are in the wild.

And there's nothing faster than a Thunderbolt 2 SSD raid.

 

I'm thinking that the next gen Databases are going to start plugging into Graphics Cards. I hope Apple makes a standard for this as they did with their Grid Computing efforts. It only makes sense at this point to create the standard.

 

As soon as one database company does it, it's going to be a stampede NOT TO BE the database company still using CPU only.

post #189 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


It's a perfectly valid point that the new Mac Pro has much less internal storage than the old Mac Pro. But that's it!

Your posts are downhill after that.

If you said, that for YOU, this doesn't have enough internal storage, everyone would have said that this isn't for you then, and if you were willing to let it go at that, or just agree, none of this would be happening. But when you make a statement that patently false, which is to generalize your wants/needs to everyone else, then you set yourself up for all of this criticism.

The problem seems to be that you aren't really familiar with the way much production use of machines like this are most of the time. Internal mass storage is not done in most places these days. That's pure and simple.

When I first saw this at the dev conf. In June, I was both upset and frustrated. I'm retired (no I'm not that old). So my needs are not what they were when I had my company. But still, I want performance. I also have five drives inside my Mac Pro, and five drives in a tower outside for backup. So this threw me!

But as I thought about it for MY needs, I realized that it was fine. With a pro quality 6 drive raid running raid 10 or preferably 20, I can have all my stuff there instead of all those drives inside and out.

With the dual pro graphics cards Apple is selling so cheaply as part of this, it isn't so bad. The only thing that's an annoyance is no internal card accommodation. A couple of extra USB3 sockets would be nice, but not a major problem.

Overall, for most REAL pro usage, it's just dandy. Don't let your own likes and dislikes get in the way of the general usage model.

But insulting people will never get your point across. Don't do it again!

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

PineWood studios is going to be creating a massive studio just South of the city in Atlanta Georgia. They'll have something like 400 3D rendering and graphics workstations. I'd have to bet that they will have some kind of SAN system set up, and that nothing will be stored on the computer but the OS and the applications.

 

If someone is editing 2K video -- are they going to send that over ethernet to someone else? Or will it be on a very fast network? Any shop that doesn't have a super fast SAN, is going to just take an external drive around.

 

If I'm all by myself, I might have extra drives in a machine -- but it's a bad practice. It means you aren't backing that up. You buy bare hard drives and you put them in an external cradle, or if they aren't projects, you put them in an external case. I'm not doing video editing professionally any more, but I can't imagine that anyone doesn't have many bare 1TB drives in stacks ready to plug in.

 

The work process is not one where people are going to opening up the computer every week to swap a drive bay.

post #190 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


If they had a "new" monitor, you'd have complained they were forcing you to upgrade. 1smile.gif

 

Nope. I bailed on the Pro line when it stagnated and went to an iMac (the first Mac I owned that always felt restricted.)

 

So I will need a new monitor if I trade up. But there's no reason people with an existing TB Display could keep using them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Sadly I think it is the end of the line for the current Mini design. The question is; does Apple drop it completely or offer up something new.

 

Knowing Apple, they're hardwiring the RAM and hard drive to match the graphics card.

They'll probably make it smaller and hit the $499. price tag again. If it's disposable, $399 would be better.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
 

Wanting more than 1TB from a pro machine who's last iteration (release 2 years ago!!!) used to be able to house over 10TB isn't that unreasonable. And we all know that thunderbolt enclosures are still real pricey, nor are they warranted given that even SSD read/write at like 500mb/s, muchless HDD read/write speeds that don't even really need Firewire 400.

 

The Mac Pro looks great, but it's target market seems extremely small to me, because it is simply crippled in so many ways... and I was finally ready to move up from the iMac....
 

 

It's a pricey rethink to be sure, but people complaining about no internal storage don't seem to realize that Apple designed the Pro to sit on top of something, underneath a desk. That's why the ports light up when moved, which is an unnecessary feature for a machine on top of a desk.

 

Whether Apple is making a complementary TB chassis or (much more likely) leaving this to third parties, the fact remains that someone's going to do this, and it will happen soon. Yes, it'll be more expensive than the previous Pro solution, but that's more because of the current price of the SSD's and dual graphics cards than anything else.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #191 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post


I couldn't agree more.

PineWood studios is going to be creating a massive studio just South of the city in Atlanta Georgia. They'll have something like 400 3D rendering and graphics workstations. I'd have to bet that they will have some kind of SAN system set up, and that nothing will be stored on the computer but the OS and the applications.

If someone is editing 2K video -- are they going to send that over ethernet to someone else? Or will it be on a very fast network? Any shop that doesn't have a super fast SAN, is going to just take an external drive around.

If I'm all by myself, I might have extra drives in a machine -- but it's a bad practice. It means you aren't backing that up. You buy bare hard drives and you put them in an external cradle, or if they aren't projects, you put them in an external case. I'm not doing video editing professionally any more, but I can't imagine that anyone doesn't have many bare 1TB drives in stacks ready to plug in.

The work process is not one where people are going to opening up the computer every week to swap a drive bay.

These companies with big arrays use fast networking for them . There are a number of ways to do that. It isn't something to go into in detail here, it's far too technical a subject.

The only real problem for people who want this machine, but who don't really need it, is cost. Apple went for high end components all the way this time, and the pricing shows it.

I know a lot of people who are finding a high end iMac to be sufficient for what they were using a Mac Pro for previously, and I suspect that Apple knows that, and encourages it. As a result, they're abandoning any pretense of serving anyone other that higher end use with these things. This allows them to design something more suited for that use, rather than a compromise with a large case and a lower starting price.

If we put a W9000 card into a top line 2012 Mac Pro, we would be hitting the same $10,000 price. Add one more, and it's hitting $15,000, where's the better high end value, even with a high end Thunderbolt 2 raid? I think it's clear.
post #192 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post
 

 

 

So it's not for you.  Big deal.

 

Lots of pros want and need this baby and will put it to great use.

 

Just because its contains "Pro" in the product name, does not mean its a pro grade product.

post #193 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

That’s what I had to say about your signature.

 

Thats because you sell fondue pots for a living and wouldn't know a thing about enterprise grade rack mount servers.

 

post #194 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

That’s what I had to say about your signature.

 

Thats because you sell fondue pots for a living and wouldn't know a thing about enterprise grade rack mount servers.

 

 

If the Mac Pro were a server that comment might make some sense.

post #195 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
 

 

If the Mac Pro were a server that comment might make some sense.

Unfortunately its not, but it does run OS X server. A proper server would be the Xserve (hence the old signature with the petition).

 

Apple could have made the Mac Pro a server and workstation to target both markets, but the cylindrical design would need to be thrown out first. On the other hand they decided to target the prosumer with the new Mac Pro and not real Pro's.

post #196 of 296
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #197 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

If the Mac Pro were a server that comment might make some sense.
Unfortunately its not, but it does run OS X server. A proper server would be the Xserve (hence the old signature with the petition).

Apple could have made the Mac Pro a server and workstation to target both markets, but the cylindrical design would need to be thrown out first. On the other hand they decided to target the prosumer with the new Mac Pro and not real Pro's.

Desktop workstations and servers are different animals. To argue that the new Mac Pro (a desktop) is not really pro because it is not a server is a non sequitur. Adding the assertion that it targets the prosumer demographic doesn't change that, and doesn't seem likely anyway - what kind of prosumer needs the performance or expense of the Mac Pro? This is clearly targeted at high-end video work, although we will probably buy a number of them for 2 and 3D simulation and modeling as well.
post #198 of 296
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #199 of 296

Interesting setup. I wonder if it was testing so ti can be placed like that and not have the top end of the Mac Pro get too much heat. or have the Mac Pros at the top of the rack get too much heat since heat rises. And how does get to the cables in that rack? Does it slide out or is that mockup much tighter than it will be in real life?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #200 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


To argue that the new Mac Pro (a desktop) is not really pro because it is not a server is a non sequitur. 

 

I'm not arguing that its not pro because its not a server. The previous generation wasn't a server either. I was just stating that Apple could have targeted both markets with one expandable design but didn't.

 

For example, if Apple would have designed the new Mac Pro in a way that it could be easily rack mounted and had an option to add dual redundant PSUs along with lights out management (LOM) etc... then it would have broader appeal. This way if you wanted a server you could add the additional PSU, LOM, additional PCIX expansion slots (multiple ethernet cards, 10gbe, fibre channel, raid card etc...) and a rack mount kit.

 

As for the current design of the Mac Pro, I would argue that its not 'Pro' in that sense that expansion is all external, you loose throughput with Thunderbolt 2 versus a slot straight on the logic board (not to mention the cable clutter) and by going with a smaller footprint versus the previous generation you loose out on the possibility of having more CPU cores, GPUs, storage and RAM which equates to more performance.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday starting at $2,999