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Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday starting at $2,999 - Page 6

post #201 of 296
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Thats because you sell fondue pots for a living and wouldn't know a thing about enterprise grade rack mount servers.

 

Sort of wish you knew anything about what you’re talking about here.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #202 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Interesting setup. I wonder if it was testing so ti can be placed like that and not have the top end of the Mac Pro get too much heat. or have the Mac Pros at the top of the rack get too much heat since heat rises. And how does get to the cables in that rack? Does it slide out or is that mockup much tighter than it will be in real life?

 

Without dual redundant power supplies, lights out management, and fibre channel connectivity its a non-starter. Not to mention the racks are non-standard. I'd hate to see the cost associated with replacing racks currently in existence.

post #203 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Sort of wish you knew anything about what you’re talking about here.

A lot more then you think.

post #204 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think that the Apple Mac Pro is going where the Pro A/V market will be in 5 years. With Thunderbolt your external devices can be in another room -- separate from where you are processing audio.

 

 

Why even have the computer in the room?

 

Just run wires through the wall for displays, audio monitors, and have a USB hub for peripherals.

post #205 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

To argue that the new Mac Pro (a desktop) is not really pro because it is not a server is a non sequitur. 

I'm not arguing that its not pro because its not a server. The previous generation wasn't a server either. I was just stating that Apple could have targeted both markets with one expandable design but didn't.

For example, if Apple would have designed the new Mac Pro in a way that it could be easily rack mounted and had an option to add dual redundant PSUs along with lights out management (LOM) etc... then it would have broader appeal. This way if you wanted a server you could add the additional PSU, LOM, additional PCIX expansion slots (multiple ethernet cards, 10gbe, fibre channel, raid card etc...) and a rack mount kit.

As for the current design of the Mac Pro, I would argue that its not 'Pro' in that sense that expansion is all external, you loose throughput with Thunderbolt 2 versus a slot straight on the logic board (not to mention the cable clutter) and by going with a smaller footprint versus the previous generation you loose out on the possibility of having more CPU cores, GPUs, storage and RAM which equates to more performance.

OK, but that is just your completely arbitrary definition of what needs to be in the box to make a pro machine. And based, in my opinion (and, presumably, Apple's), on an outdated paradigm. In what sense is the new machine more RAM-limited? It's only storage limited by your narrow definition of storage. How many users ever did core upgrades?
post #206 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


OK, but that is just your completely arbitrary definition of what needs to be in the box to make a pro machine. And based, in my opinion (and, presumably, Apple's), on an outdated paradigm. In what sense is the new machine more RAM-limited? It's only storage limited by your narrow definition of storage. How many users ever did core upgrades?

 

Swapping out/upgrading GPU's, and expansion slots yes. You couldn't swap out CPU cores before but thats why more space is vital, to put in as many as possible. As far as RAM, the more space you have, the more you can fit in (and yes OS X has a limit of how much it can "see", but thats moot when running multiple OS's in VMs - the more the merrier). 

post #207 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

OK, but that is just your completely arbitrary definition of what needs to be in the box to make a pro machine. And based, in my opinion (and, presumably, Apple's), on an outdated paradigm. In what sense is the new machine more RAM-limited? It's only storage limited by your narrow definition of storage. How many users ever did core upgrades?

Swapping out/upgrading GPU's, and expansion slots yes. You couldn't swap out CPU cores before but thats why more space is vital, to put in as many as possible. As far as RAM, the more space you have, the more you can fit in (and yes OS X has a limit of how much it can "see", but thats moot when running multiple OS's in VMs - the more the merrier). 

Looks to me that you simply have no concept of what this machine is for or how it will be used, and you are way too slippery for me to be interested in continuing this discussion.
post #208 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


Looks to me that you simply have no concept of what this machine is for or how it will be used.

 

One word: Limited.

post #209 of 296
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post
A lot more then you think.

 

Hmm. What’s “a lot more” multiplied by zero?

 

Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

One word: Limited.

 

One word: So are servers.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #210 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hmm. What’s “a lot more” multiplied by zero?

1.875009e+34

And if you think servers are limited then your mind is limited. If you hadn't notice Mac Pro's use server class Xeon processors.
post #211 of 296
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post
1.875009e+34

 

Get your server checked; it’s giving back bad answers.

 
If you hadn't notice Mac Pro's use server class Xeon processors. 

 

If you hadn’t noticed, it’s not a server.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #212 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Get your server checked; it’s giving back bad answers.

If you hadn’t noticed, it’s not a server.


The answer is correct, you are multiplying ASCII characters that need conversion to decimal first before multiplication.

It's not a server but Apple sure does like to use server parts. They shouldn't pretend, they should just build a dual purpose workstation versus limiting it.
post #213 of 296
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post
They shouldn't pretend, they should just build a dual purpose workstation versus limiting it.

 

Or they should keep doing exactly what they’re doing because every other workstation does the same thing.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #214 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Or they should keep doing exactly what they’re doing because every other workstation does the same thing.


Dell PowerEdge T620

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/Dell-PowerEdge-T620-Spec-Sheet.pdf


24 core Xeon E5
48TB internal HDD storage
768 GB RAM
7 Slots
Dual PSU
LOM
Etc...

Workstation/Tower Chassis that's rack mountable

Only drawback is the OS

Here's an overview of the design:
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/04/videos~en/documents~poweredge-tower-server-family-video.aspx?modal=true
Edited by z3r0 - 12/19/13 at 7:03pm
post #215 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Interesting setup. I wonder if it was testing so ti can be placed like that and not have the top end of the Mac Pro get too much heat. or have the Mac Pros at the top of the rack get too much heat since heat rises. And how does get to the cables in that rack? Does it slide out or is that mockup much tighter than it will be in real life?

 

Yeah, that setup looked fishy to me. The Pro is made to vent out the top, and lying them sideways will likely cause damage.

 

Not to mention the cable setup is insane.

 

The Mini is the only real hope for a server now. And its Haswell version is strangely MIA.

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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #216 of 296

And the argument that the new Pro is not really targeting pros is silly. They're just targeting specific pros.

 

The fact is that Apple has gone heavy on the Pro Video market with this upgrade. And deliberately so.

They figure that Print will stick with iMacs, and many Government/Education markets are sizing down these days as well.

 

It's almost likely they're planning to release something big in the TV arena, and will be using Final Cut adoption to drive content to it.

 

But hey, it's not like there are any rumours about that, are there? ;) 

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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #217 of 296

Looking forward to seeing these in a rack. Like a computer wine cooler:  http://www.wayfair.com/Wine-Enthusiast-48-Bottle-Dual-Zone-Touchscreen-Wine-Cooler-272-48-03-51-WINE1156.html

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #218 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Interesting setup. I wonder if it was testing so ti can be placed like that and not have the top end of the Mac Pro get too much heat. or have the Mac Pros at the top of the rack get too much heat since heat rises. And how does get to the cables in that rack? Does it slide out or is that mockup much tighter than it will be in real life?

Yeah, that setup looked fishy to me. The Pro is made to vent out the top, and lying them sideways will likely cause damage.

Not to mention the cable setup is insane.

The Mini is the only real hope for a server now. And its Haswell version is strangely MIA.






Quote:
As for the form factor, the new Mac Pro is an obvious departure from the normal silver machines we have been bumping our chairs into at the side of our feet for over ten years. This sits quietly on the desktop.

Very quiet. It is so quiet that you probably won't even hear the fan if you have a disk drive running nearby or have an air conditioner overhead. The footprint is small so it will fit on most desks, production environments or outside broadcast vans. It's also qualified to run on the side, no doubt rack mounting kits will appear for it soon.



http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1307-the-first-24-hours-with-apple-s-new-mac-pro-and-final-cut-pro-10-1
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 12/20/13 at 3:03pm
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #219 of 296



Ships
All is quiet on the water
And the wind across the sand
Whispers through our quarters
That the morning’s close at hand

Our love’s in perfect order
As we fold our sails in sleep
But the moon is falling starboard
And we have promises to keep

chorus:
We rest here while we can
But we hear the ocean calling in our dreams
And we know by the morning
The wind will fill our sails to test the seams
A calm is on the water
And part of us would linger by the shore
For ships are safe in harbor
But that’s not what ships are for

So we head for open water
Set a course for distant land
Out here there are no borders
And the truth is in the chance

We fill our sails with purpose
Find direction in the stars
Pray the dark and deep won’t hurt us
And sail with open arms

chorus:
We rest here while we can
But we hear the ocean calling in our dreams
And we know by the morning
The wind will fill our sails to test the seams
A calm is on the water
And part of us would linger by the shore
For ships are safe in harbor
But that’s not what ships are for

Ships are safe in harbor
But that’s not what ships are for
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 12/20/13 at 3:12pm
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #220 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's also qualified to run on the side, no doubt rack mounting kits will appear for it soon.

1) I still question how the cable setup will be done. I'd think slid into grooved chambers on an angle, like angled parking would be better than laid fully on their side.

2) Is that one screen of your new Mac Pro?

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #221 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's also qualified to run on the side, no doubt rack mounting kits will appear for it soon.

1) I still question how the cable setup will be done. I'd think slid into grooved chambers on an angle, like angled parking would be better than laid fully on their side.

2) Is that one screen of your new Mac Pro?


1) Thats a good idea. You could also fully populate it with short cables and bring them all out to a wiring harness/router on the back/bottom.

2) No, not my Mac Pro...


I got up too late and the shipments were already out to February... But that gives me more time to save $ to get:
  • New Mac Pro -- likely, mid-range
  • 4K Monitor
  • TB2 Pegasus Raid -- likely, the 32 Terabyte

My granddaughter just got $1,800 worth of starter DSLR gear and she takes lots and lots of photos and videos... It is amazing how fast you can fill up 2 10 Terabyte RAIDS


Are you finished with school -- or just sabbatical?
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #222 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Are you finished with school -- or just sabbatical?

Sabbatical until mid-January, but I'll never stop studying as here is always something to be learned.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #223 of 296
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
 

Quote:

As for the form factor, the new Mac Pro is an obvious departure from the normal silver machines we have been bumping our chairs into at the side of our feet for over ten years. This sits quietly on the desktop.

Very quiet. It is so quiet that you probably won't even hear the fan if you have a disk drive running nearby or have an air conditioner overhead. The footprint is small so it will fit on most desks, production environments or outside broadcast vans. It's also qualified to run on the side, no doubt rack mounting kits will appear for it soon.

 

He says this matter-of-factly, without sourcing. It would be nice to hear Apple say it. I couldn't find anything about this in the manual.

 

Nevertheless, if it's rackable on the side, that's a good thing. :D 

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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #224 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 
Quote:
As for the form factor, the new Mac Pro is an obvious departure from the normal silver machines we have been bumping our chairs into at the side of our feet for over ten years. This sits quietly on the desktop.


Very quiet. It is so quiet that you probably won't even hear the fan if you have a disk drive running nearby or have an air conditioner overhead. The footprint is small so it will fit on most desks, production environments or outside broadcast vans. It's also qualified to run on the side, no doubt rack mounting kits will appear for it soon.


He says this matter-of-factly, without sourcing. It would be nice to hear Apple say it. I couldn't find anything about this in the manual.

Nevertheless, if it's rackable on the side, that's a good thing. 1biggrin.gif  

As a leading FCPX site, and the fact they got a BTO configuration on day 1 -- makes me believe that they have direct contact with Apple.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #225 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

[*] TB2 Pegasus Raid -- likely, the 32 Terabyte

It is amazing how fast you can fill up 2 10 Terabyte RAIDS

It might be worth looking into an archive solution such as:

http://www.amazon.com/HP-Ultrium-Drive-Storageworks-LTO-5/dp/B003G700G8

That would need a Thunderbolt to SAS adaptor:

http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?scat=31&sku=TLSH-1068-D00

Each 1.5TB cartridge would be $27:

http://www.amazon.com/LTO5-Ultrium-1-5TB-3TB-Case/dp/B003KR4CXQ

$1700 + $895 + $27 x 20 cartridges (30TB) = $3135. Slightly cheaper than the 32TB Pegasus at $4600 but you wouldn't need to buy 20 cartridges at first, just enough to free up the 10TB Pegasus drives.

I'm not sure why HP doesn't just release a Thunderbolt or USB 3 LTO drive. It could be the main storage medium used by desktop users to ship and backup large files.
post #226 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Swapping out/upgrading GPU's, and expansion slots yes. You couldn't swap out CPU cores before but thats why more space is vital, to put in as many as possible. As far as RAM, the more space you have, the more you can fit in (and yes OS X has a limit of how much it can "see", but thats moot when running multiple OS's in VMs - the more the merrier). 

Except that that's just not what is done with pro workstations. The only thing that is done is to upgrade RAM, and maybe the startup drive. Workstations are used until they no longer meet the need, then they are sold off, and new ones put in. That's almost always the way it's done. Now, if you're buying a $15,000 workstation ,or a more expensive one, you may upgrade to more processors, etc. but Apple's not playing in that space. They're not competing with boxx's high end models
post #227 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

1.875009e+34

And if you think servers are limited then your mind is limited. If you hadn't notice Mac Pro's use server class Xeon processors.

No, they don't. They use Xeon workstation class chips. Intel does make Xeon server chips, but Apple has never used those.
post #228 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

The answer is correct, you are multiplying ASCII characters that need conversion to decimal first before multiplication.

It's not a server but Apple sure does like to use server parts. They shouldn't pretend, they should just build a dual purpose workstation versus limiting it.

Again, no server chips inside.
post #229 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Dell PowerEdge T620

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/Dell-PowerEdge-T620-Spec-Sheet.pdf


24 core Xeon E5
48TB internal HDD storage
768 GB RAM
7 Slots
Dual PSU
LOM
Etc...

Workstation/Tower Chassis that's rack mountable

Only drawback is the OS

Here's an overview of the design:
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/04/videos~en/documents~poweredge-tower-server-family-video.aspx?modal=true

That's a server, not a workstation. The Mac Pro is not a server, it's a workstation. It would also do you well to check the pricing on that Dell, both the base machine and the upgrades.
post #230 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



Strange that writing is faster than reading. Could that be a bug in Blackmagicdesign?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Sabbatical until mid-January, but I'll never stop studying as here is always something to be learned.

I'll say. I find the articles of lesser importance than the informative posts people write up.

Will you leave, or mostly be absent from AI, come mid January?
post #231 of 296
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #232 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

[*] TB2 Pegasus Raid -- likely, the 32 Terabyte

It is amazing how fast you can fill up 2 10 Terabyte RAIDS

It might be worth looking into an archive solution such as:

http://www.amazon.com/HP-Ultrium-Drive-Storageworks-LTO-5/dp/B003G700G8

That would need a Thunderbolt to SAS adaptor:

http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?scat=31&sku=TLSH-1068-D00

Each 1.5TB cartridge would be $27:

http://www.amazon.com/LTO5-Ultrium-1-5TB-3TB-Case/dp/B003KR4CXQ

$1700 + $895 + $27 x 20 cartridges (30TB) = $3135. Slightly cheaper than the 32TB Pegasus at $4600 but you wouldn't need to buy 20 cartridges at first, just enough to free up the 10TB Pegasus drives.

I'm not sure why HP doesn't just release a Thunderbolt or USB 3 LTO drive. It could be the main storage medium used by desktop users to ship and backup large files.

Thanks for the links… I'll investigate tomorrow!
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #233 of 296

Only Apple can notice a detail and design a power cord like this one:



Explanation for Windows/Android users: they curved the back of the plug so it fits seamless in the cylindrical shaped Mac.
post #234 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


LOL

Many out there:


post #235 of 296

Not looking forward to seeing how bad the Cinebench scores are...though I do want to see them.

post #236 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

Not looking forward to seeing how bad the Cinebench scores are...though I do want to see them.

Lots o' benchmarks
post #237 of 296

Wish the demo machines had a better variety.  They all seem to be 8-core video beasts.

 

6-core and 12-core would have been interesting.

 

Also, it would be nice if some test site would set up a set of files that people could download and test on their own machines for comparison and to organize the results.  Real-world stuff like a movie that would have several effects performed on it, a 10-second animation in variety of 3D apps for rendering.

 

But, it is nice to see that my current iMac (late 2012) is actually pretty good.  Of course, several tested apps have not been optimized for the MP yet.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #238 of 296
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

I really like how they did incorporate the central radiator core in that image.

 

Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
Only Apple can notice a detail and design a power cord like this one:

 

 

Oh, and on the new, crazy-thin iMac, the cable exits the back of the plug at a slight upward angle (meaning if you hold the plug end vertically, the cable points up a bit)… because when it’s plugged into the iMac, the cable then comes out perfectly horizontally at the standard angle.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #239 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, and on the new, crazy-thin iMac, the cable exits the back of the plug at a slight upward angle (meaning if you hold the plug end vertically, the cable points up a bit)… because when it’s plugged into the iMac, the cable then comes out perfectly horizontally at the standard angle.

That is soooo Apple!
post #240 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, they don't. They use Xeon workstation class chips. Intel does make Xeon server chips, but Apple has never used those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, they don't. They use Xeon workstation class chips. Intel does make Xeon server chips, but Apple has never used those.

Ok so I should look past the Mac Pro benchmarks indicating a 12 core Xeon E5-2697 V2 (server CPU)?
http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2013/11/estimating-mac-pro-performance/

Or maybe ignore intel's page listing several servers using the same chip (including the Dell T620)?
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/benchmarks/server/xeon-e5-2600-v2/xeon-e5-2600-v2-summary.html

The Mac Pro does use a server class Xeon on the high end.


Just for kicks, you can even find the same Xeon server class chips in laptops:
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/eurocom_launches_laptop_with_12_core_intel_xeon_e5_2697_v2_cpu.html
Edited by z3r0 - 12/21/13 at 11:44am
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