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Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday starting at $2,999 - Page 2

post #41 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusMundi View Post

Right you are a LISA in today's dollars would be 
$23,388.80. And of course the new MacPro is probably faster than a Cray 1 - it will be great to learn more about its application in realtime rendering and HD editing. Thanks for the reminder about "constant dollars." 

Heh! A cray 1 was just over 1 Gigaflops.
post #42 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Despite my daughter's enthusiasm at wanting my old Mac Pro once I get the new one. I'm going to wait until next year. I don't feel that this years chips are that much better than last years, and that the next chips will make up for that. Also the GPUs aren't the newest design either.

I believe that next years models will offer much more performance.

In addition, we are just now seeing Thunderbolt 2 drive towers. I'd rather see a second generation on that.

I'm not even sure whether this model uses Express 2 or the new 3.

... But I've waited since 2009, I can't take it any more ...
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post #43 of 296
How quick do we see a new monitor get released? You would think TB2 and a slim down would be in order not to mention a 4k option.
post #44 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, I remember when the most expensive/powerful computer made by Apple was the LaserWriter…
They were wonderius beasts indeed. Remember the fun writing postscript manually to make crazy images? 1biggrin.gif
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post #45 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

1hmm.gif
While I was buying Macs for my company before, my first Mac was the Quadra 950. I paid $6,000 for the base machine. $289 for the pro keyboard. And extra $400 to go from the 160 MB HDD to the 320. It came with a large amount of RAM for the day—8 MB. 48 MB more RAM cost me an additional $5,200. An extra MB of video RAM was $320. That was for CPU graphics. A Radius card was $3,650. A NEC 21" graphics multi sync monitor was $3,400. I installed the first CD player in N America, at least. It was a Toshiba 2x player, the fastest at the time. That cost $750. I had to machine out my Mac in my machine shop to do it.

Take inflation into account, and it was expensive. Multiply by 1.7. Wow! I just did the math. It comes out to just over $34,000. It's strange. It didn't seem to be that much then. Sigh! I suppose we were just used to it back then.

Things are so CHEAP These days!

We Apple Centre owners loved people like you. 1biggrin.gif
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post #46 of 296

We are going toward Mini's and away from the iMac's. We have a slew of 27" iMacs and when it is time to upgrade, it is expensive. Anxiously waiting for Haswell to hit the Mini's.

post #47 of 296
it's small enough (and my foot big enough) to be a stocking stuffer;-)
post #48 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelegg View Post

 
It's small enough to easily fit down any Chimney.

Here's hoping Santa accidently drops one down ours!


Merry Christmas all.


Just one?

I'll take two!  Not dropped, of course...

Shaken not stirred...
post #49 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by iw16w8sH0v View Post

We are going toward Mini's and away from the iMac's. We have a slew of 27" iMacs and when it is time to upgrade, it is expensive. Anxiously waiting for Haswell to hit the Mini's.

I'd love to see mini specs in a pro form factor for $1800 less than the pro. It will be interesting to see how the pro's design filters down into the rest of the desktop product line
post #50 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by iw16w8sH0v View Post

We are going toward Mini's and away from the iMac's. We have a slew of 27" iMacs and when it is time to upgrade, it is expensive. Anxiously waiting for Haswell to hit the Mini's.

My first reaction was: where is he going to get a minicomputer?

Ha!

Then I remembered a talk by Guy Kawasaki where he described the dilemma facing a customer choosing between a microcomputer and a minicomputer.. He said the guy just sat there -- in one hand was his Apple and in the other hand was his Wang.
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post #51 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

However when we needed a new workstation earlier this month, I ordered a BTO 27" iMac, optioned-up with 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, quad 3.5GHz i7, and upgraded Nvidia GTX 780M 4GB graphics. List price is $2749, plus tax etc. That's $250 less than the bare base price of the new Mac Pro, except that for that money we also get a new 27" display otherwise worth $1000.

That's a hell of a deal!

Just curious... what is the performance difference between the top-of-the-line iMac vs the entry-level new Mac Pro?
post #52 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

1hmm.gif
While I was buying Macs for my company before, my first Mac was the Quadra 950. I paid $6,000 for the base machine. $289 for the pro keyboard. And extra $400 to go from the 160 MB HDD to the 320. It came with a large amount of RAM for the day—8 MB. 48 MB more RAM cost me an additional $5,200. An extra MB of video RAM was $320. That was for CPU graphics. A Radius card was $3,650. A NEC 21" graphics multi sync monitor was $3,400. I installed the first CD player in N America, at least. It was a Toshiba 2x player, the fastest at the time. That cost $750. I had to machine out my Mac in my machine shop to do it.

Take inflation into account, and it was expensive. Multiply by 1.7. Wow! I just did the math. It comes out to just over $34,000. It's strange. It didn't seem to be that much then. Sigh! I suppose we were just used to it back then.

Things are so CHEAP These days!

We Apple Centre owners loved people like you. 1biggrin.gif

The days of 40% net dealer margins were wonderful. $5000 monitors, $3500 video cards, $1600 memory upgrades, $15,000 drum scanners, $8000 laser printers, $65,000 imagesetters. Oh and the $10,000 Mac IIfx and $4500 Mac IIci.

In the 80s-90s, I was a wholesale sales rep for Caribbean Computer Exports, who were the sole wholesale distributor for Apple for the Caribbean, Central and South America, and based in the US Virgin Islands.

When CompUSA started selling apple products, it became cheaper for our dealers to buy from them than us, and the company went under.

Interesting that Apple still has 30-40% margins on most of their product line
post #53 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

1hmm.gif
While I was buying Macs for my company before, my first Mac was the Quadra 950. I paid $6,000 for the base machine. $289 for the pro keyboard. And extra $400 to go from the 160 MB HDD to the 320. It came with a large amount of RAM for the day—8 MB. 48 MB more RAM cost me an additional $5,200. An extra MB of video RAM was $320. That was for CPU graphics. A Radius card was $3,650. A NEC 21" graphics multi sync monitor was $3,400. I installed the first CD player in N America, at least. It was a Toshiba 2x player, the fastest at the time. That cost $750. I had to machine out my Mac in my machine shop to do it.

Take inflation into account, and it was expensive. Multiply by 1.7. Wow! I just did the math. It comes out to just over $34,000. It's strange. It didn't seem to be that much then. Sigh! I suppose we were just used to it back then.

Things are so CHEAP These days!

That's incredible when you think about it. You really tricked out your system. Things are so cheap these days because the dollar has shrunk in value over the decades. It no longer means as much as it used to.

Also maybe on Thursday they silently update the Mac mini : D
post #54 of 296

But I already have a trashcan in my office... :lol:

post #55 of 296

I want this one.

Can you buy me one?

Anyone?

 

Funny, I gave only 500$ less for my current iMac, but right now i cannot afford it.

post #56 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

1hmm.gif
While I was buying Macs for my company before, my first Mac was the Quadra 950. I paid $6,000 for the base machine. $289 for the pro keyboard. And extra $400 to go from the 160 MB HDD to the 320. It came with a large amount of RAM for the day—8 MB. 48 MB more RAM cost me an additional $5,200. An extra MB of video RAM was $320. That was for CPU graphics. A Radius card was $3,650. A NEC 21" graphics multi sync monitor was $3,400. I installed the first CD player in N America, at least. It was a Toshiba 2x player, the fastest at the time. That cost $750. I had to machine out my Mac in my machine shop to do it.

Take inflation into account, and it was expensive. Multiply by 1.7. Wow! I just did the math. It comes out to just over $34,000. It's strange. It didn't seem to be that much then. Sigh! I suppose we were just used to it back then.

Things are so CHEAP These days!

Ha! I used to own a NeXTStation Turbo Color.......cost me over $15,000 back then.

post #57 of 296
Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 

"Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday..."

"Apple's much anticipated new high-end Mac Pro desktop, in a completely new and unique cylindrical design completely manufactured in America, will become available to order starting Thursday..."
 

 

"Apple said the all-new Mac Pro will be available to order on Thursday through its online store, Apple's retail stores, and select authorized Apple resellers. No word was given on when shipments may arrive."

 

Really? Did AI fire all its editors?

 

-kpluck

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post #58 of 296
Why no fusion drive? 1TB is way too little. I'm not complaining, but this really marks the end of the expandable Mac.
post #59 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

We Apple Centre owners loved people like you. 1biggrin.gif

Are you the founder/owner of Apple Centre? The chain that is still around, with many stores in The Netherlands?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Did AI fire all its editors?

Which editors? Never got the impression they have those over here. Sadly.
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post #60 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Why no fusion drive? 1TB is way too little. I'm not complaining, but this really marks the end of the expandable Mac.

Fusion uses serial ATA. there's no SATA port in the new pro.

Since you can hang all kinds of storage off of it via TB2 or USB3, I suggest you read the specs again before criticizing a lack of expandability.
post #61 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

 

"Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday..."



"Apple's much anticipated new high-end Mac Pro desktop, in a completely new and unique cylindrical design completely manufactured in America, will become available to order starting Thursday..."

 

"Apple said the all-new Mac Pro will be available to order on Thursday through its online store, Apple's retail stores, and select authorized Apple resellers. No word was given on when shipments may arrive."

Really? Did AI fire all its editors?

-kpluck

Pretty clear to me:

The new Mac Pro will be on display in Apple Stores on Thursday.

When they will arrive at other resellers is not yet known.

When they will arrive if you order one on Thursday is not yet known.
post #62 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Just curious... what is the performance difference between the top-of-the-line iMac vs the entry-level new Mac Pro?

 

I don't think anyone yet knows that, although with the imminent release of the new Mac Pro it seems we will soon.

 

But in a sense I don't care. For normal graphics work we need a machine that's speedy and responsive, but it doesn't need to be the very fastest thing on the planet. Realistically speaking, the slowest link in the chain is the user. So while I expect the new Mac Pro to be substantially faster than this loaded iMac, that wouldn't add much value for us. Previously we were willing to pay a premium for the Mac Pro tower because of its build quality and internal expandability; the added performance was just a bonus.

 

With the new Mac Pro we'd be paying a huge premium for that performance bonus, but not getting the internal expandability. 

 

As it happens we also have a fleet of Apple 23" Cinema displays that are getting long in the tooth, so choosing the iMac, with its built-in display, takes care of that problem while offering the user a useful screen upgrade.

post #63 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

As it happens we also have a fleet of Apple 23" Cinema displays that are getting long in the tooth, so choosing the iMac, with its built-in display, takes care of that problem while offering the user a useful screen upgrade.

So you don't mind the difference in quality (and matte versus gloss) between these two display types?
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post #64 of 296

"it will be the company's first machine entirely assembled in the U.S."

 

Wrong. I have several pre-iMac Macintoshes in my house that were made in the USA.

 

(I also have a rev. B Bondi Blue iMac that was made in Ireland). 

post #65 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

Nothing sucks a like Hoover!

Or like Electrolux - This was an advertising campaign in the UK around 2000, that was quickly pulled...

post #66 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

I don't think anyone yet knows that, although with the imminent release of the new Mac Pro it seems we will soon.

But in a sense I don't care. For normal graphics work we need a machine that's speedy and responsive, but it doesn't need to be the very fastest thing on the planet. Realistically speaking, the slowest link in the chain is the user. So while I expect the new Mac Pro to be substantially faster than this loaded iMac, that wouldn't add much value for us. Previously we were willing to pay a premium for the Mac Pro tower because of its build quality and internal expandability; the added performance was just a bonus.

With the new Mac Pro we'd be paying a huge premium for that performance bonus, but not getting the internal expandability. 

As it happens we also have a fleet of Apple 23" Cinema displays that are getting long in the tooth, so choosing the iMac, with its built-in display, takes care of that problem while offering the user a useful screen upgrade.

Thanks for the response!

There's even more pros and cons when it comes to iMac vs new Mac Pro. It sounds like you made a great choice.
post #67 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If Dyson manufactured computers this would be what they'd make; a compliment.

 

When I first saw the pic on this thread the first thing that did pop into my head was that I have to remember to get that vacuum before Xmas.

post #68 of 296
Looks like something I would enjoy computing with.

At these price points thou, and for this type of computer where it's all soldered together, I would like to see Apple have a warranty extended to 5 years.

3 years from Apple and an extended 2 Apple Care.

I wouldn't hesitate with a warranty like that.
post #69 of 296

I'm really glad to see it out before Christmas, but I still don't understand.

 

Without a new monitor, Apple's essentially selling half a system.

 

And where's the Haswell Mini?

When you can configure a $10,000 desktop tomorrow, isn't everybody going to be talking about how expensive Macs are?

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post #70 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
So you don't mind the difference in quality (and matte versus gloss) between these two display types?

 

Apple's 27" display (we already have two freestanding and two iMac versions of it) is very good. You do pay for the glossy screen's sharpness and cleaner colour in reflectivity, but that can be managed.

 

In our case I specified diffused, indirect overhead lighting in our office when we moved into new quarters a couple of years ago. Our overhead lighting for each individual workspace is also individually controllable by the occupant. Several of our designers prefer to turn off their overhead lighting altogether and use only a small desk lamp. I realize, of course, that not everyone has this kind of flexibility; those standard fluorescent tube troffers used in typical office dropped ceilings are especially bad for screen reflections, and worse, they're often only switched in large zones.

post #71 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Without a new monitor, Apple's essentially selling half a system.

I'm sure these will come back:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/12/06/in-lieu-of-a-retina-thunderbolt-display-apple-now-selling-4k-igzo-sharp-led-monitor
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post #72 of 296

Since I have spare money and put nothing on my Christmas list, perhaps I should pick one of the new nMP to replace my 2011 iMac - which top-notch yet reasonably-priced 27" display could I find?

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post #73 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

So you don't mind the difference in quality (and matte versus gloss) between these two display types?

Apple's 27" display (we already have two freestanding and two iMac versions of it) is very good. You do pay for the glossy screen's sharpness and cleaner colour in reflectivity, but that can be managed.

In our case I specified diffused, indirect overhead lighting in our office when we moved into new quarters a couple of years ago. Our overhead lighting for each individual workspace is also individually controllable by the occupant. Several of our designers prefer to turn off their overhead lighting altogether and use only a small desk lamp. I realize, of course, that not everyone has this kind of flexibility; those standard fluorescent tube troffers used in typical office dropped ceilings are especially bad for screen reflections, and worse, they're often only switched in large zones.

That's a good option! I've seen the 27" iMac in an Apple Store, and the reflection is too much for my taste, even though they got better, less glossy, over time.
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post #74 of 296

 

Yeah, but most people don't need 4K just yet (or Apple would have their own 4K monitor) but it's margin suicide not to have an up-to-date monitor to tempt buyers with, particularly corporate accounts that are probably leasing the equipment anyway.

 

The current TB Display will work. But it's TB1, not TB2 and still has FW800 instead of a USB 3 port (again, not absolutely essential - but a reason to trade upward.) It would also be a great time to make the thing adjustable, so at least you can line it up correctly with an iMac.

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post #75 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Are you the founder/owner of Apple Centre? The chain that is still around, with many stores in The Netherlands?
Which editors? Never got the impression they have those over here. Sadly.

I was Managing Director and 1/3 share holder of two in the UK. Fun days indeed. Moved on to a software company. I didn't know they were still around, it must be tough competing with Apple Stores and I doubt they get the margins we did in those days.
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post #76 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


Yeah, but most people don't need 4K just yet (or Apple would have their own 4K monitor) but it's margin suicide not to have an up-to-date monitor to tempt buyers with, particularly corporate accounts that are probably leasing the equipment anyway.

The current TB Display will work. But it's TB1, not TB2 and still has FW800 instead of a USB 3 port (again, not absolutely essential - but a reason to trade upward.) It would also be a great time to make the thing adjustable, so at least you can line it up correctly with an iMac.

With the new design I'm failing to see any use of ports on the monitor; this new MP is desktop, to be put on a desk. Heck, I think many will turn the machine and put the ports in plain view.

As for 4k, they might just stop making monitors altogether. I too was expecting a model from them, but with the Sharp one in the Store the other day, they just might stop making them and rely on 3rd party. Just like printers.
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post #77 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Heh! A cray 1 was just over 1 Gigaflops.

 

Quoting Wikipedia:

 

"Its theoretical performance was thus 160 MIPS (80 MHz x 2 instructions), although there were a few limitations that made floating pointperformance generally about 136 MFLOPS. However, by using vector instructions carefully and building useful chains, the system could peak at 250 MFLOPS."

 

So really the iPhone 5 is the proper comparison clocking in at around 365 MFlops on linpack.  CPU only I think…the GPU numbers are of course much higher and perhaps more in line with the peak numbers for the Cray 1 using vector instructions.

post #78 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


With the new design I'm failing to see any use of ports on the monitor; this new MP is desktop, to be put on a desk. Heck, I think many will turn the machine and put the ports in plain view.

As for 4k, they might just stop making monitors altogether. I too was expecting a model from them, but with the Sharp one in the Store the other day, they just might stop making them and rely on 3rd party. Just like printers.

 

Any chance of having new Apple displays announced tomorrow as well?

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post #79 of 296
"The Mac Pro is also a landmark achievement for Apple, as it will be the company's first machine entirely assembled in the U.S."

Funny; but I don't recall Wozniac going outside of the U.S.A. to build & assemble the Apple I. The Apple ][ had its motherboard printed in Ireland & Singapore (per Wikipedia); but was fully assembled first in Silicon Valley and later in Texas.

Regardless; I'm looking forward to getting my hands one one of these units (assembled approx. 80 miles NE of me) to replace my aging 8-core MacPro Early 2008. The only real downside is that instead of a large internal RAID; I now need to purchase an External storage solution. I can't imagine anyone needing the power of one of these who could make due with the maximum internal storage of 1TB (let alone with the stock configurations of 256 GB). The system will boot and applications will load super-fast; but you have to invest plenty of extra $$ on a Thunderbolt 2 RAID in order to utilize the speed potential for Photoshop, Premiere / Final Cut Pro, CAD design, etc. On the upside, I found the receipt for my almost 6-year old system and even with a large external TB2 RAID; a 6-core unit will still cost me less than I originally paid on the MacPro 3,1. (On the downside; the new model will not serve double-duty by heating my office in the Winter.)
post #80 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Are you the founder/owner of Apple Centre? The chain that is still around, with many stores in The Netherlands?
Which editors? Never got the impression they have those over here. Sadly.

I was Managing Director and 1/3 share holder of two in the UK. Fun days indeed. Moved on to a software company. I didn't know they were still around, it must be tough competing with Apple Stores and I doubt they get the margins we did in those days.

Wow, all these MD's and resellers here at AI. Info straight from the horses mouth, together with ex-Apple/NeXT employees.

Yeah, still around these stores. Supposedly they rake in a mere 3% commission. We also have another one, Amac, less then 100 meters away from where Apple will open their Store. I wonder what they will do. Or what Apple will do; they might 'ask them to leave'.

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